Saints at Euro 2020

[nta786]

4 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Roy Keane was spot on about Henderson, and why would you have him around the camp if he's crocked - for card tricks? Especially given the lack of midfielders in the squad. JWP should be in instead of him anyway.....i got the "let's take Rooney" when he'd done his foot because he was potentially a match winner and a real prospect. Henderson is neither, so why take an injured player in an area where there are other decent, fit options available? Crazy. And yes, i do have SFC tinted spec's but it seems the impartial football population wanted JWP taken too. And let's face it, he'd have wanted to go even if not likely to play at all so i'm sure he'll be pretty gutted.

Because imagine by some divine intervention and incredible luck, we manage to win the Euros.

Henderson, will pull the largest strop in the world for not receiving a medal and he will threaten Southgate forever.

So yes, we couldn’t leave out haughty Henderson could we- it’s what their like in Liverpool.

Yes do take the above with a pinch of salt but I’m sure there is an element of truth in there.

Ultimately if Henderson (and Maguire) aren’t fit, perhaps they said to Gareth, “you leave me out and I won’t host the Monday Night Quizzes, just watch the team morale deteriorate”

[Donatello]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Why would that be the choice?

What planet are you nutcases living on. JWP even if he went would barely have played a minute, just like Ben White really.

If we need a goal, we'll bring on an attacker from the bench - the experienced Raheem Sterling, say.

Settle down 🙄 And it could arguably be a choice if wanting to refresh legs in midfield with like-for-like. If we're making multiple substitutions, it's quite feasible that one of those will be at CM, in which case *my preference* would be JWP over Henderson. I'm not suggesting that would've happened....since it's pretty apparent that Southgate would bring on another right back. 

[qwertyell]

21 minutes ago, Donatello said:

True enough, but with 20 minutes to go and England needing a goal, who would be more likely to influence the score, JWP or Henderson (assuming he doesn't start)? 

I'm loving the reimagining of Prowse on here as a game changing impact sub. He's not even an impact starter for us most weeks.

England struggling, Southgate looks down the bench and sees Grealish, Sancho, Sterling, Foden, Saka, Calvert-Lewin, Bellingham... and thinks "nah, this one's set up for Prowsey".

Maguire's not going to be fit for possibly the entire group stage. Taking another CB is the obvious option.

Not taking a badly injured player in the first place would be a better option, but England have done that more often than not in my lifetime. And it's never worked. But still they persist...

Edited 7 June, 2021 by qwertyell

[CB Fry]

18 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Every time England get a free kick or corner, large parts of the fanbase will be calling for JWP - and when England eventually get knocked out after a lacklustre performance vs a better side, Southgate will have absolutely nowhere to hide from his selection cock ups.

1) The national fanbase really will not be calling for JWP every time there is a corner. Or even a free kick. Other people can create goals and take corners FFS.

2) Imagine the absolute slaughtering Southgate would get if JWP is in the starting eleven and we get knocked out in the group stage, and he leaves Bellingham or Grealish or whoever on the bench because he decided to prioritise the best corner taker instead. Imagine that.

There is a world where "selection cock up" means picking JWP. People are talking about him like he's some guaranteed success machine.

 

Edited 7 June, 2021 by CB Fry

[Daft Kerplunk]

Crazy that another player Saints rejected as a teenager makes it to the England squad. 
 

It’s a shame for JWP, he should be in the squad. 

[Pilchards]

If JWP had a better player on the end of those great free kicks then he might of got picked.

Southgate fucked up with McGuire and now he has to take White as cover.

Honestly what a dick for a manager as Rashford, Sterling, Mings, Henderson and McGuire shouldn’t be anywhere near that squad of ours.

 

PS it’s obvious playing for Saints won’t get you an international place even if you are playing well.

[warsash saint]

Doffs a ginger wig & tartan hat for the Euro's

[whelk]

Was it Les Reed who let Ben White go? It was obvious he was going to be a future international and we let him go for free. So typical of Saints.

 

[CB Fry]

15 minutes ago, Donatello said:

And it could arguably be a choice if wanting to refresh legs in midfield with like-for-like.

Except in your previous post it was "20 minutes to go and we're needing a goal" so you have already scaled back.

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Was it Les Reed who let Ben White go? It was obvious he was going to be a future international and we let him go for free. So typical of Saints.

 

IT'S LIKE WE NEVER EVER LEARNED FROM DENNIS WISE AND KEVIN PHILLIPS FFS

[whelk]

Bloody hell it isn’t like Venables and Le Tiss. Saints fans hoping for England failure on the back of squad player omission. My word. Southgate is a bit wet though. Too squeaky clean and wisely diplomatic for me. We’d do better with a nutcase like Clough

[saint lard]

As well as Henderson being picked I really don’t see what Phillips Brings to the party which is so special. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[benjii]

My main gripe is that Mings is shit and Maguire is injured, so we've got two wasted squad places.

Plus JWP is better than Phillips.

So, I think he's unlucky to miss out on the squad, although he wouldn't play much if Rice and Henderson are fit anyway and at least he gets a rest.

[SKD]

29 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

If JWP had a better player on the end of those great free kicks then he might of got picked.

Southgate fucked up with McGuire and now he has to take White as cover.

Honestly what a dick for a manager as Rashford, Sterling, Mings, Henderson and McGuire shouldn’t be anywhere near that squad of ours.

 

PS it’s obvious playing for Saints won’t get you an international place even if you are playing well.

😂 grow up, clearly in the best 26 players in the country. Likewise a fit Henderson and Maguire are as well. 

[Fan The Flames]

36 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

PS it’s obvious playing for Saints won’t get you an international place even if you are playing well.

Hello, Ben White play's for Brighton.

[igsey]

All this does is highlight how poor the original squad selection was, White and JWP should have been in from the start. It's taken 2 friendlies for Southgate to realise Mings is a disaster waiting to happen so needs to call up an emergency CB. Phillips has offered nothing JWP doesn't and shouldn't be there, I'm guessing he's decided Henderson is fit enough. Maguire should not go if he's not fit enough for the first game.

[Toussaint]

On 07/06/2021 at 08:05, SKD said:

White should have been in ahead of Mings from the start. JWP should have been given the nod this time round. 
 

Let’s hope this is the last tournament for Southgate. 

I doubt it, results don’t seem nearly as important to the England powers that be  as a yes man who tows the line and says all the right things. 

Edited 9 June, 2021 by Toussaint

[Nolan]

53 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

So you're saying a conspiracy against Southampton to get our players transferred out is the reason JWP didn't get selected in the squad? Who's in on this?

You said it "smelled" like the Lallana situation but Lallana did get picked.

So I'll stick with my original view. If JWP was in the squad you'd be paranoid that the other players would "turn his head".

Lallana got picked as he had already 'gone' to Liverpool when he was picked. Hence the pictures with him with the Liverpool shirt pre-tournament.

[OldNick]

When he subbed JWP last night the way he greeted him as he went gave me then the feeling that it was a thank you and goodbye thing

[Hatch]

It;s the shyteness of Mings that killed off JWPs chances here.

 

Southgate realised he needed another centre back to cover a broken Maguire and a useless Mings

[Jimmy_D]

Regardless of who replaces them, we’ve seen over and over again that gambling on a player’s fitness for a major tournament isn’t a good idea, especially as we’re so light in midfield.

[macca155]

Need to take our Saints spectacles off. Ward Prowse is an excellent player and the sort of dependable workhorse managers love. However at international level the game is very different. I think he is worth a place in the squad as understudy to Rice, along with Phillips. I really don't rate Henderson and he really shouldn't be in the squad. However I wouldn't go any further than that, a midfield of Rice, Foden, Mount, and Grealish is world class and we should be proud that JWP is considered part of that, even as cover. However to accommodate playing Grealish, Foden, and Mount, Southgate has to play 3 at the back and push up the full backs as wing backs to provide defensive cover.

He then has problems accommodating Rashford, Sterling, Bellingham, Sancho, and Saka. Who would be an international manager.

I do think that in Grealish and Saka, Southgate has players who can turn a game. It will also be interesting to see how Bellingham does, although he is very young.

[BotleySaint]

I agree a defender for a defender. But can't help but feel JWP should have a place somewhere in that squad. Very hard done by and he'll be feeling gutted today. Just hope that feeling doesn't unsettle him into thinking his future lies elsewhere.

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Lallana got picked as he had already 'gone' to Liverpool when he was picked. Hence the pictures with him with the Liverpool shirt pre-tournament.

Or perhaps the fact he was moving to Liverpool was a sign of why he got picked for England, because he was very good and one of the best English players in the league at that point..... 

[saintwbu]

1 minute ago, Hatch said:

It;s the shyteness of Mings that killed off JWPs chances here.

 

Southgate realised he needed another centre back to cover a broken Maguire and a useless Mings

I agree, watching the game last night, whilst desperate for JWP to get the call up, all I could think by the end was ‘we need another CB in the squad’. Mings is an absolute liability, so it basically leaves us with Stones and Coady until Maguire is fit (might not even be fit for the group games). Disaster waiting to happen. 

[Saint_lambden]

Another Southgate f*ck up. If he'd have just picked Tomori, who was exceptional for AC Milan towards the end of the season, rather than Mings who isn't even the best CB at Villa he wouldn't be in this situation. 

Hard to feel too much optimism about the Euros with a man who got relegated with Middlesbrough and failed with the Under 21s in charge. 

[CB Fry]

16 minutes ago, Nolan said:

Lallana got picked as he had already 'gone' to Liverpool when he was picked. Hence the pictures with him with the Liverpool shirt pre-tournament.

This is what you said originally:

1 hour ago, Nolan said:

Smells like 2014 when Lallanas head was turned. Trying to do the same thing with Ward Prowse.

I repeat: who is trying to do what?

I think, if I'm right, what you are now saying is JWP needed to rush through a move to Liverpool or Manchester City over the weekend so that he would then get selected to the squad and join the likes of, er Ben White from Brighton.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by CB Fry

[JustinSFC]

What I don't get is Ben White is a really specific pick.

It seems Southgate was always going to pick him. It's THAT specific.

It's not who anyone in the game, I'm talking pundits/journos were predicting, so why did Southgate give him such a prominent role.

Let's be honest, Prowse could be on holiday with his family now, he's played so many games for us he's barely seen them this season.

Southgate's wasted his time.

Let's have it right.

He's wasted his time.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by JustinSFC

[ErwinK1961]

32 minutes ago, SKD said:

😂 grow up, clearly in the best 26 players in the country. Likewise a fit Henderson and Maguire are as well. 

But they're not fit though.

[SKD]

1 minute ago, JustinSFC said:

What I don't get is Ben White is a really specific pick.

It's not who anyone in the game, I'm talking pundits/journos were predicting, so why did Southgate give him such a prominent role.

Let's be honest, Prowse could be on holiday with his family now, he's played so many games for us he's barely seen them this season.

Southgate's wasted his time.

Let's have it right.

He's wasted his time.

Not sure about that. He’s trained with the squad and gave a good account of himself in the friendlies he’s played. Another season like this one and he’ll be on the plane for the World Cup next year, without a doubt. 

[ErwinK1961]

Not a surprise, with Maguire injured and Mings barely looking like a footballer, Southgate's chosen to include another CB. Basically admitting he got it wrong in the first place.

I'd have JWP over Phillips personally, but oh well. Time for him to go and get some well earned rest.

[JustinSFC]

Jordan really laying into Southgate on TalkSport taking Henderson
 

[Smirking_Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Was it Les Reed who let Ben White go? It was obvious he was going to be a future international and we let him go for free. So typical of Saints.

 

Yes

Les Reed was in sole charge of all transfer activity, youth player decisions and team bus seating arrangements

[david in sweden]

Of course disappointed for JWP, but history shows that most players in the " bigger teams " get first choice -   

if only to safeguard that player's valuation to his club. Two very poor friendly games against sub-standard opposition

have convinced Southgate that he has the right combination. At a time when two of his key choices are fighting their way back

from injury Gareth has adopted the " Big Lie " that even if they don't play - they will be an asset to have around the kids in his squad.

They could do that by sitting in the dressing room wearing their England blazers and let him choose two other players who are match fit.

The pathetic sight of Henderson " pulling rank " on Calvert-Lewin and then failing to score from a penalty maybe a precursor to him 

missing another when we have a penalty shoot-out at some crucial time in the tournament.

 

JWP will come again, and hopefully have better chance in the World Cup, (after playing every minute of games next season),  

and Southgate will recall too late that the old football  adage " you don't win things with kids",  may come back to haunt him 

when he sees how they compete against a top class  " men's team " - provided England get past the group stages. 

[Smirking_Saint]

My issue is that Maguire isn't even running yet, so why are we gambling on him ? Its just odd, and despite our lack of options at CB I'm still struggling to get my head around it

The uplift to 26 was to ensure that we had cover IF we had issues with fitness at the tournament due to a busy season, which is a legitimate risk, but instead he decided to call up an extra 2 that were injured or lacking fitness

I can just about understand Henderson, he is a leader, and without him OR Maguire we will effectively have lost our C and VC BUT it is, imo, madness to call up both

I can only assume Mings is called upon as he is a left footed CB, but lets be real, he isn't even the best CB at Villa, he is a calamity waiting to happen and I would comfortably bet money he'll cost us at least a goal this tournament

Rose tinted glasses off - 

JWP is likely all round a better player than Phillips, but he isn't AS good as Phillips as a pure DM, which is probably why KP got the overall nod. It feels as if Rice will be our first No.6 with Henderson as the No.8... JWP doesn't break into that

Then accommodate Mount/Bellingham (Who I think is worth being in the squad, he is a real talent) and Foden/Grealish

Ultimately I think JWP was the Henderson alternative and I think since JH has been given the fitness nod then that is the death of JWPs chances

Ben White has been called to cover maguire, which again goes back to the question I asked before..... why take him in the first place ?

 

[SKD]

3 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Of course disappointed for JWP, but history shows that most players in the " bigger teams " get first choice -   

 

A squad containing players from Villa, West Brom, Brighton, wolves and Leeds this just clearly isn’t true. 
 

generally speaking, the reason they play for the bigger teams, is because they’re better players....

[cloggy saint]

5 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Of course disappointed for JWP, but history shows that most players in the " bigger teams " get first choice.

He was omitted because a Brighton player got the nod, hardly a "bigger team".

[Wade Garrett]

2 hours ago, Saint Troy said:

I think mings efforts in the friendlys possibly sealed his and JWPs fate unfortunately. Obviously he should be going, in a tournament you want options like him but sadly it’s come down to would you rather have JWP as a back up CM or Tyrone Mings at the heart of your defence and there’s probably only one answer there 

Mings is garbage though.  Shouldn’t even be in the squad.  We have better alternatives in that position.

[SKD]

6 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

My issue is that Maguire isn't even running yet, so why are we gambling on him ? Its just odd, and despite our lack of options at CB I'm still struggling to get my head around it

The uplift to 26 was to ensure that we had cover IF we had issues with fitness at the tournament due to a busy season, which is a legitimate risk, but instead he decided to call up an extra 2 that were injured or lacking fitness

I can just about understand Henderson, he is a leader, and without him OR Maguire we will effectively have lost our C and VC BUT it is, imo, madness to call up both

I can only assume Mings is called upon as he is a left footed CB, but lets be real, he isn't even the best CB at Villa, he is a calamity waiting to happen and I would comfortably bet money he'll cost us at least a goal this tournament

Rose tinted glasses off - 

JWP is likely all round a better player than Phillips, but he isn't AS good as Phillips as a pure DM, which is probably why KP got the overall nod. It feels as if Rice will be our first No.6 with Henderson as the No.8... JWP doesn't break into that

Then accommodate Mount/Bellingham (Who I think is worth being in the squad, he is a real talent) and Foden/Grealish

Ultimately I think JWP was the Henderson alternative and I think since JH has been given the fitness nod then that is the death of JWPs chances

Ben White has been called to cover maguire, which again goes back to the question I asked before..... why take him in the first place ?

 

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this post. Especially that regarding JWP, as you said, competing with Henderson who as soon as was fit was always going to be in. 

I don’t actually have a major issue with taking Maguire. Probably our best CB and if he can play in the later rounds (if we get there) then he should play. It’s more taking Cody and Mings who neither are good enough and that was clear for everyone. Bringing in white is because Southgate has now realised that. 

White and another (Tamori has apparently been doing well in Italy) should have been in from the start. JWP probably should have been Trents replacement. 

I think the only saving grace is now with Henderson being not 100% we most likely now won’t play 5 with 2 holding CM’s. 
 

I think the gig is up for Southgate now though, generally speaking, the majority seem to be against him and his negative tactics a poor tournament and I don’t think we’ll have a choice but to replace him. 

[JustinSFC]

I'd imagine Lingard is feeling pretty pissed with that decision aswell.

[egg]

30 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Of course disappointed for JWP, but history shows that most players in the " bigger teams " get first choice -   

 

White plays for Brighton. He hasn't been picked because he plays for a bigger team. 

[egg]

15 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

I'd imagine Lingard is feeling pretty pissed with that decision aswell.

I think he would have made it if it wasn't for the Mings/Maguire/TAA situation. Overall though, I'm glad we've taken the opportunity to get a better CB in the squad. 

[Pilchards]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

😂 grow up, clearly in the best 26 players in the country. Likewise a fit Henderson and Maguire are as well. 

Give me a break.

You NEVER take unfit and out of form players to a tournament.

it’s always been England’s downfall at all tournaments because the manager sticks to his favourites.

Honestly are you telling me that Rashford and Sterling deserve a squad place? They are fucking shite!!

 

 

[SKD]

Just now, Pilchards said:

Give me a break.

You NEVER take unfit and out of form players to a tournament.

it’s always been England’s downfall at all tournaments because the manager sticks to his favourites.

Honestly are you telling me that Rashford and Sterling deserve a squad place? They are fucking shite!!

 

 

Loosely agree around injured players. But Yes, they do and that’s Not even debatable. 

They’re clearly not fucking shite either, are they. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

50 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

I'd imagine Lingard is feeling pretty pissed with that decision aswell.

As an England fan, this is more frustrating than leaving JWP at home.  JL was the in-form England player of the second half of the season, alongside Kane and offers something a bit different.  Would have been a really useful option.

[JustinSFC]

1 hour ago, Smirking_Saint said:

My issue is that Maguire isn't even running yet, so why are we gambling on him ? Its just odd, and despite our lack of options at CB I'm still struggling to get my head around it.

Southgate is about to get a taste of how savagely brutal the press can be when you're the England manager and the gamble doesn't pay off.

He's made his bed and now he's got to lie in it no matter what.

[qwertyell]

2 hours ago, macca155 said:

However I wouldn't go any further than that, a midfield of Rice, Foden, Mount, and Grealish is world class and we should be proud that JWP is considered part of that, even as cover. However to accommodate playing Grealish, Foden, and Mount, Southgate has to play 3 at the back and push up the full backs as wing backs to provide defensive cover.

I don't see any scenario where Southgate is starting Grealish, Foden and Mount. He's not known for his adventure. Two out of three at most.

If he plays a 433, the midfield will be Rice, Phillips/Henderson and Mount.

The front three will be Kane, Rashford and Sterling/Foden/Grealish

If he plays 343, the midfield two will be Rice and Phillips/Henderson. 

The front three will be Kane, Mount and A.N. Other (probably between Rashford and Sterling as there's no pace up top otherwise).

 

[danjosaint]

I don't rate maguire at all but get Southgate needs his 'leaders' but .... Mings ffs..... there's a much better cb in Tomori whose had cracking season in Milan, who Baresi has said is one of the best up coming cb's he's seen, oh well bet Gareth knows more than one of the greatest cb's whose ever played

Edited 7 June, 2021 by danjosaint

[Baird of the land]

Curious to see how England fare. Feels to me once again trying to throw in half fit/unfit players is going to be their undoing.

[S-Clarke]

Not sure why everyone is so bothered, it's great news for us.

We have 4 players at the Euro's - Adams, Armstrong. Let's be honest, they'll be lucky to still be in it after the first 2 weeks.

Vestergaard - isn't a starter for Denmark

Bednarek - starter for Poland.

So, most of our squad is going to get the chance to build their fitness again for next season. That's all I care about really, selfish....maybe, but I don't really care about England in the same way as I do about Southampton.