Saints 0-2 Leeds - Match Thread

[OttawaSaint]

Brighton 3-2 up on 10 man City, Nivea boy pulling the strings!

[obelisk]

Another game where we bemoan final third bluntness. Presumably Saints coaches might also have noticed so one has to wonder whether they're up to the task.

[Neef]

Beaten by the better team. They are top half for a reason it seems. 

The lack of impact/quality from the #10s is a big concern. Our attacks lack decisiveness because of it. 
 

Tella looks promising but I hope we also bring in someone on loan (doubt we can afford the required quality) who has the quality to make an impact. 

[DT]

Are we sure Ralph is the right manager for us next season? Because if not we should change ASAP after the end of the season to prepare for someone who can instil a bit of solidity. Really not convinced he knows what he’s doing. 

[OttawaSaint]

5 minutes ago, The Cat said:

It's not just on here that Redmond gets unfair abuse either. 89 minutes gone and he smashes one over the bar from the edge of the area and loads of people start moaning at him. One minute later Ings smashes one well wide from a similar position and people clap him.

Imagine you've got 2 neighbours. One plays loud shitty music day and night, lets his dog shit all over your driveway and frequently parks his shitty old car on your grass. Then there's the other neighbour who occasionally cuts your grass, helps you get your bins in, and picks up litter in the street. Unfortunately this neighbor vomited on your flower bed today. Which one are you most pissed off with?

[Give it to Ron]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

Are we sure Ralph is the right manager for us next season? Because if not we should change ASAP after the end of the season to prepare for someone who can instil a bit of solidity. Really not convinced he knows what he’s doing. 

He is and I still think its people around him but got shot down for suggesting that weeks ago. 
Armstrong is our only creative player why Diallo and shift him to where he lost  all impact?

Why not bring on Obafemi instead of constantly failing Redmond?

 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

15 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

He should be in. He did little wrong tonight.

Agreed. Our best player today, no question.

[The Cat]

1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Imagine you've got 2 neighbours. One plays loud shitty music day and night, lets his dog shit all over your driveway and frequently parks his shitty old car on your grass. Then there's the other neighbour who occasionally cuts your grass, helps you get your bins in, and picks up litter in the street. Unfortunately this neighbor vomited on your flower bed today. Which one are you most pissed off with?

That's analogy doesn't work because it should conclude with them both vomiting on my flower bed. 

How did the other neighbour cut the grass if the first one had his car parked on it?

[ally_uk]

Leeds have ability to unlock you in a few moves...... We don't we spend to long fannying about looking for openings by the time we pump the ball into the box to form some some sort of attacking chance the opponent could sit down and have Sunday lunch with all the trimmings.

Djenepo don't rate at all just always looks like a headless chicken on the ball no final output when was the last time he scored a goal?

Redmond like somebody else said can we just sell and move on he is crap...

Positives: 

Salisu I can see qualities in him he is going to be a great player for us long term reads the game well doesn't mess about straight in and bham!

Tella and Armstrong for actually having the swedes to run at the opposition and try and create something.

 

[sydenhamssocks]

8 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

He is and I still think its people around him but got shot down for suggesting that weeks ago. 
Armstrong is our only creative player why Diallo and shift him to where he lost  all impact?

Why not bring on Obafemi instead of constantly failing Redmond?

 

You think Ralph is the right man, yet you’re next two questions point to the fact he’s not. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Leeds also got stuck in and dished out some clog. Whereas our son-in-laws passed the ball round nicely, minced about and did what they do best. Lost in a nice manner. 

[OttawaSaint]

6 minutes ago, The Cat said:

That's analogy doesn't work because it should conclude with them both vomiting on my flower bed. 

How did the other neighbour cut the grass if the first one had his car parked on it?

You're right, those bastards are probably in cahoots!

[Teddeer]

45 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Bollocks, we lost because of ineptitude in the final 3rd, nothing to do with schooling.

Leeds controlled the game and dictated the pace. They got better as the match went on whereas we got worse - a good sign that you have been out thought and out played which is exactly what happened.

[Give it to Ron]

10 minutes ago, sydenhamssocks said:

You think Ralph is the right man, yet you’re next two questions point to the fact he’s not. 

I think he needs better help tactically than he is getting or listening to if he isn’t listening then he needs telling because our tactics too often at crap and same failure

Edited 18 May, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[JRM]

23 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Back home now. We played well for about 60 minutes and then paid the price for not scoring when we were on top. 

I really enjoyed being back in the stadium with a reasonable number of people there. Was so nice to be able to watch a live game. Stewarding was relaxed, they barely even checked my ticket and didn't look at the kids ones at all. 

It's not just on here that Redmond gets unfair abuse either. 89 minutes gone and he smashes one over the bar from the edge of the area and loads of people start moaning at him. One minute later Ings smashes one well wide from a similar position and people clap him.

I think both with Saints and Redmond it's the frustration, as a team we played well and the more chances we blew in the first half you could feel we'd end up regretting it, Redmond gets in some good positions , picks up the ball but end product again just massively frustrating, wish he had a bit more confidence in himself. 

The game pretty much sums up the season, good first half, completing ran out of energy in the 2nd. 

[CanadaSaint]

20 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Back home now. We played well for about 60 minutes and then paid the price for not scoring when we were on top. 

Totally agree with that.

And, at risk of repetition, we are a COMPLETELY different team without Romeu. So many of the goals we have been conceding have come from the Romeu void, and JWP often looks like the boy trying to plug the hole in the dike. We also lose quite a lot of Armstrong's forward effectiveness because he's forced to hedge his positional bets.

The problem is not that we're crap, or prone to goalkeeping blunders. Sure, we do have some weaker players, and goalkeeping is certainly not a strength, no matter who's in there.

The problem is that without Romeu we become weaker all over the park. With him, we're a pretty decent side.

[Whitey Grandad]

Meh. This season can’t end soon enough for me. 

First half good, second half bad. Their goals were down the other end from us but they both looked soft. Having looked at them now that I’m back home I thin that McCarthy could have done a lot better with both of them.

[JRM]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Meh. This season can’t end soon enough for me. 

First half good, second half bad. Their goals were down the other end from us but they both looked soft. Having looked at them now that I’m back home I thin that McCarthy could have done a lot better with both of them.

McCarthy will have nightmares about the 1st one. 

[captainchris]

38 minutes ago, derry said:

Harry Kane and Son suckered our centre backs second game of the season. Leeds suckered us at Elland Road, and again tonight. Just three examples of Kamikaze defending. Our defenders might and it's a very big might get a couple of goals a season between them. They are employed as defenders. Vestergaard and Stephens carrying the ball forward just opens us up at the back. JWP was the only Saints player back for the second goal against three Leeds players. Defence is too important to allow them to showboat. Until we organise and become a disciplined team we are going to continue to be also rans just happy not to be relegated.  Ralph needs to get a grip. We probably wouldn't have conceded if we had been disciplined at the back. 

Exactly Derry.

Second half’s our midfield are far too advanced leaving us totally exposed. What this means is we both concede and completely knacker everyone chasing back miles all the bloody time!!!

What does Ralph do????  Repeat, repeat, repeat .. 
Ralph takes far too long to cotton on and, as in in this case, never gets it.....

[Saint Garrett]

Adams going off seemed the be the turning point unfortunately. We always fall to bits when he isn’t on the pitch as the ball keeps coming back and we never progress up the pitch. Need so much more from all of those contending to play in the “10” positions. None of them are playing well enough to play every week atm. Tella just seemed to want to run into their players in the second half.

Really frustrating result, after a very promising first half. Thought it was odd not to start Adams and Ings together up front and then look to take them off if they’re not capable of 90 mins. 

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

Adams going off seemed the be the turning point unfortunately. We always fall to bits when he isn’t on the pitch as the ball keeps coming back and we never progress up the pitch. Need so much more from all of those contending to play in the “10” positions. None of them are playing well enough to play every week atm. Tella just seemed to want to run into their players in the second half.

Really frustrating result, after a very promising first half. Thought it was odd not to start Adams and Ings together up front and then look to take them off if they’re not capable of 90 mins. 

I thought Adams seemed to pick up a knock  just before h/t he was stretching his groin.

Adams needs Ings and Ings needs Adams to make us look a threat 

 

 

[Saint Garrett]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

I thought Adams seemed to pick up a knock  just before h/t he was stretching his groin.

Adams needs Ings and Ings needs Adams to make us look a threat 

 

 

Would be a blow if he got injured, didn’t notice that. 

[davefizzy14]

Just now, Saint Garrett said:

Would be a blow if he got injured, didn’t notice that. 

This exactly. Hopefully its not too bad and Che will be ok for the final game of the season.

[Give it to Ron]

Just now, Saint Garrett said:

Would be a blow if he got injured, didn’t notice that. 

It came from a cut back as he was about to shoot Leeds player came from behind him and he was then stretching it as he went off

[Whitey Grandad]

It was a real pleasure to be able to watch a game instead of the heavily processed version we get on the TV. I could see the whole pitch, I could see the runs of players who weren’t on the ball whether they were attacking or defending, I could see what options the defenders had and I could see the reasons why they might not release the ball quickly.

The crowd seemed very sparse though and it didn’t help to create much atmosphere.

[Bob76]

39 minutes ago, Neef said:

Beaten by the better team. They are top half for a reason it seems. 

The lack of impact/quality from the #10s is a big concern. Our attacks lack decisiveness because of it. 
 

Tella looks promising but I hope we also bring in someone on loan (doubt we can afford the required quality) who has the quality to make an impact. 

Exactly this our two tens do very little, they are meant to be the creative engine of the team but most are simply not good enough. If Ralph insists on sticking to playing with two of them out is an area we desperately need more/some quality.

 

[Badger]

44 minutes ago, The Cat said:

 

It's not just on here that Redmond gets unfair abuse either. 89 minutes gone and he smashes one over the bar from the edge of the area and loads of people start moaning at him. One minute later Ings smashes one well wide from a similar position and people clap him.

Accept the point you're making but Ings has probably built up a few more "credits" in his time with us in most peoples eyes to allow him some slack.

[sydenhamssocks]

18 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

I think he needs better help tactically than he is getting or listening to if he isn’t listening then he needs telling because our tactics too often at crap and same failure

I agree with you, to be honest the coaches around him just now are more hangers on than useful. Kelvin etc should have gone a long time ago, but they’ve nicked a wage and kept their mouths shut.
But I think Ralph is a very inflexible and single minded fella who is probably his own worst enemy. in the end it’ll catch him. Had there been fans in all this season I think he’d have been hounded by now. 

[igsey]

Disappointing loss, but we were all calling for Ralph to experiment - well, he's experimented and hopefully learned some valuable things. Such as: Armstrong is a decent CM but we miss him further forward when he's not there, and he lacks the discipline to play there against counter-attacking sides (see the second goal); Ings is the our only decent finisher; and McCarthy isn't very good.

[Nemi]

37 minutes ago, DT said:

Are we sure Ralph is the right manager for us next season? Because if not we should change ASAP after the end of the season to prepare for someone who can instil a bit of solidity. Really not convinced he knows what he’s doing. 

For me this game exactly sums up why I don’t, totally anyway, blame Hassenhüttl. We just don’t have any quality in the final third, excluding Ings, and no-one in the squad that is capable of playing a quality final ball. This has been proved game after game after game - often not playing bad but completely toothless in the final third. His tactics, the majority of the time (today as well), aren’t the problem - every game there’s 4 or 5 occasions at least when we get in the position to have a great chance and the final ball, or touch, or finish is just completely off. Same thing today. We should of scored at least 2 given how they played, but totally the players are toothless and lack so much cutting edge.
 

I just don’t see what Hassenhüttl can do. Granted his subs aren’t great but who the hell do we bring on who isn’t shite in the final third. There is no-one in the squad clinical enough, passing, controlling the ball, shooting, any of it. We lost the game because when Leeds got into the right positions they had the quality to create chances and take them. Southampton don’t have that. And I don’t see what Hassenhuttl is meant to do to change that? There’s a lack of killer instinct in this squad, ultimately, you either have it or you don’t, you can’t teach that - and this team doesn’t have it.

[Give it to Ron]

3 minutes ago, Nemi said:

For me this game exactly sums up why I don’t, totally anyway, blame Hassenhüttl. We just don’t have any quality in the final third, excluding Ings, and no-one in the squad that is capable of playing a quality final ball. This has been proved game after game after game - often not playing bad but completely toothless in the final third. His tactics, the majority of the time (today as well), aren’t the problem - every game there’s 4 or 5 occasions at least when we get in the position to have a great chance and the final ball, or touch, or finish is just completely off. Same thing today. We should of scored at least 2 given how they played, but totally the players are toothless and lack so much cutting edge.
 

I just don’t see what Hassenhüttl can do. Granted his subs aren’t great but who the hell do we bring on who isn’t shite in the final third. There is no-one in the squad clinical enough, passing, controlling the ball, shooting, any of it. We lost the game because when Leeds got into the right positions they had the quality to create chances and take them. Southampton don’t have that. And I don’t see what Hassenhuttl is meant to do to change that? There’s a lack of killer instinct in this squad, ultimately, you either have it or you don’t, you can’t teach that - and this team doesn’t have it.

Bring on Obafemi instead of out of touch, form , confidence Redmond?

who is more likely to score out of those 2?

[JRM]

Great to have fans back, but that photo going round on social media of ladies sat staring at their phones looking bored whilst the game was on is a poor reflection on our "support" 

I'll assume they were having a quick look on here to get some informed opinions on the match thread. 

 

Wait all that time to get to a game.................

#AgainstModernFootball #SaintsFC #LUFC https://t.co/zEQiIEHqSw

Edited 18 May, 2021 by JRM

[Nemi]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Bring on Obafemi instead of out of touch, form , confidence Redmond?

who is more likely to score out of those 2?

Neither tbh, and I like Obafemi. But also this is exactly my point - given how the game went it should have been put to bed way before without having to rely on subs to claw back a goal. There just isn’t any quality in this squad and blaming subs, as ineffective as they are, is just glossing over the massive, glaring issue here.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

At the end of the day Bielsa is a better manager than Hasenhuttl. Much better in fact. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

3 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At the end of the day Bielsa is a better manager than Hasenhuttl. Much better in fact. 

Therein lies our problem. I don't think there is much difference in the squads, they may just have a bit more quality in the final third with Raphina. The problem with that match was that Biesla just got his tactics right and his team knew what they were doing. Too many times this season Ralph has been out thought by other managers.

[Vancouver Saint]

45 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Leeds controlled the game and dictated the pace. They got better as the match went on whereas we got worse - a good sign that you have been out thought and out played which is exactly what happened.

I only saw the first half, then bloody DAZN crashed so only saw the (predictable) result after the game had finished. What I saw in that first half was a great performance, lots of positive play, especially Vestergard stepping up into the middle of the park and creating chances. We all knew we needed to score when we were on top (which we were - well on top). Point is, you could see Bielsa was unhappy with the first half performance of his team - I don't believe it was a masterclass in them holding back and letting us use our batteries up...although that's what we did. What I saw from their goals was another instance of McCarthy getting beaten near post when he shouldn't of which is the difference in a tight game, when whoever scores first likely wins. We out-shot them 18 to 15 (although tellingly they had more on target than us 2 to 7) with possession even.  Not a Leeds masterclass or master plan.

[Nemi]

2 minutes ago, Vancouver Saint said:

I only saw the first half, then bloody DAZN crashed so only saw the (predictable) result after the game had finished. What I saw in that first half was a great performance, lots of positive play, especially Vestergard stepping up into the middle of the park and creating chances. We all knew we needed to score when we were on top (which we were - well on top). Point is, you could see Bielsa was unhappy with the first half performance of his team - I don't believe it was a masterclass in them holding back and letting us use our batteries up...although that's what we did. What I saw from their goals was another instance of McCarthy getting beaten near post when he shouldn't of which is the difference in a tight game, when whoever scores first likely wins. We out-shot them 18 to 15 (although tellingly they had more on target than us 2 to 7) with possession even.  Not a Leeds masterclass or master plan.

Yeah this is basically it. There wasn’t no masterclass or anything, largely it was an open rather equal game, but they took their chances and Saints didn’t - same old story.

[Wade Garrett]

35 minutes ago, Nemi said:

For me this game exactly sums up why I don’t, totally anyway, blame Hassenhüttl. We just don’t have any quality in the final third, excluding Ings, and no-one in the squad that is capable of playing a quality final ball. This has been proved game after game after game - often not playing bad but completely toothless in the final third. His tactics, the majority of the time (today as well), aren’t the problem - every game there’s 4 or 5 occasions at least when we get in the position to have a great chance and the final ball, or touch, or finish is just completely off. Same thing today. We should of scored at least 2 given how they played, but totally the players are toothless and lack so much cutting edge.
 

I just don’t see what Hassenhüttl can do. Granted his subs aren’t great but who the hell do we bring on who isn’t shite in the final third. There is no-one in the squad clinical enough, passing, controlling the ball, shooting, any of it. We lost the game because when Leeds got into the right positions they had the quality to create chances and take them. Southampton don’t have that. And I don’t see what Hassenhuttl is meant to do to change that? There’s a lack of killer instinct in this squad, ultimately, you either have it or you don’t, you can’t teach that - and this team doesn’t have it.

Why didn’t he start Ings?  Absolute madness.

[The Cat]

15 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

At the end of the day Bielsa is a better manager than Hasenhuttl. Much better in fact. 

Bielsa is vastly experienced and pretty much singlehandedly introduced a new style of football which is mimicked by clubs the world over. He is superior to the vast proportion of managers. There's no disgrace in losing to him. Many better managers than Hasenhuttl have been doing so for years.

[Saint Garrett]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Why didn’t he start Ings?  Absolute madness.

Yeah, absolutely, even if he could only play half the game, should have played the best side, and changed it at HT or after 60 mins if he was done. Very frustrating 

[SKD]

6 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Why didn’t he start Ings?  Absolute madness.

Ings starts, we win the game. 
 

Adams can’t be relied upon to win us a game, as I’ve been pointing out. 

[Nemi]

5 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Why didn’t he start Ings?  Absolute madness.

Is pretty well known that Ings with his injury record is rarely capable of playing three games per week. Again this just proves the lack of quality that we have to rely on one man.

[Saint Garrett]

2 minutes ago, SKD said:

Ings starts, we win the game. 
 

Adams can’t be relied upon to win us a game, as I’ve been pointing out. 

Neither can Ings without Adams. We were worse with Ings than Adams. 

[SKD]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

Neither can Ings without Adams. We were worse with Ings than Adams. 

We weren’t at the races second half in general I thought. First half we looked good, very good, but at 0-0 it was inevitable we’d go on to lose. 

[Whitey Grandad]

15 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Yeah this is basically it. There wasn’t no masterclass or anything, largely it was an open rather equal game, but they took their chances and Saints didn’t - same old story.

A lot of their chances came from shots on target whilst our shots went way over the bar.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

We weren’t at the races second half in general I thought. First half we looked good, very good, but at 0-0 it was inevitable we’d go on to lose. 

Leeds changed Kalvin Phillips for Struijk at HT and that seemed to transform their midfield. Not sure what was up with Phillips tonight, but he was wandering all over the place and leaving huge gaps. Struijk came on and just sat there and they were much more solid as a 4.

Edited 18 May, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Saint Garrett]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Leeds changed Kalvin Phillips for Struijk at HT and that seemed to transform their midfield. Not sure what was up with Phillips tonight, but he was wandering all over the place and leaving huge gaps. Struijk came on and just sat there and they were much more solid as a 4.

Just me, or is Phillips nowhere near as good as some people make him out to be? Was run ragged by JWP and Armstrong in that first half, and got hauled off after getting booked. 
 

Is he any better than just an average premier league midfielder, or should he be starting for England? I can’t see it…

[SKD]

Just now, Saint Garrett said:

Just me, or is Phillips nowhere near as good as some people make him out to be? Was run ragged by JWP and Armstrong in that first half, and got hauled off after getting booked. 
 

Is he any better than just an average premier league midfielder, or should he be starting for England? I can’t see it…

He’s half decent on the ball (sort of the minimum you’d expect from a premier league player), but agree, average. 
 

Id put him as same bracket as JWP, if I’m honest. 

[Saint Fan CaM]

Nearly all of Leeds attacks came from the fast movement of the ball and a lack of guile from our defensive players. Djenepo is not a defensive player...and frankly he is not being played to his best abilities in attack either. Redmond is a waste of space and a shirt.  We need Romeu back alongside JWP.

However, the biggest issue for me is game management by Ralph and his coaching team...they are not getting something right. I’m no expert, but whatever game plan and style of play is being employed is just not working.

One last thought...Theo is twice the player Redmond is and I’m pleased we’ve signed him. I hope we sell Redmond... he needs a change and so does our attack.

[S-Clarke]

2 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Just me, or is Phillips nowhere near as good as some people make him out to be? Was run ragged by JWP and Armstrong in that first half, and got hauled off after getting booked. 
 

Is he any better than just an average premier league midfielder, or should he be starting for England? I can’t see it…

Agreed, not an amazing player by any means. Bog standard really.

Central Midfield is an area where England don't really have much quality, in my opinion. We're debating Rice, JWP, Kalvin Phillips, Winks in CM.....compare that to other leading nations and we are absolutely light years behind. It doesn't take much to get a game in CM for England atm, especially with Henderson out.