Saints 3-1 Palace - Match Thread

[whelk]

Just now, OldNick said:

crikey the joy of a rare win has softened the brain lol.I thought Bent was more measured myself

Bent is decent too. It does take time for pundits to get comfortable and often people making snap judgements. 

[Mr X]

7 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

"We will not forget what problems we have and to try to solve them in the summer - we have a small squad and need more players."

Quote from Ralph on the BBC. I think the club are well aware of what's needed. Whether we have the funds to do it is another question.

Was Ralph not the one who specifically made us have a small squad in the first place though? 

[OldNick]

Just now, whelk said:

Bent is decent too. It does take time for pundits to get comfortable and often people making snap judgements. 

I just cant take to him, cocky little git, and i also dont get why hes on every channel its like Alex Scott she must have a fantastic agent

[Mr X]

We played pretty decent overall, when we conceded after two minutes I feared the usual no show was on the cards! But we recovered well and put a decent shift in, the game showed how important ings is to us take him away and we have very little goal threat and he assists others too (that said he should have done better with a clearance for their goal as should the four other defenders!) We seem incapable of a clean sheet lately and prone to switching off.  Che gets a lot of stick & yes he does miss easier chances (that's why he's at saints) but he always puts in the effort rate & rarely gives up that's what I like about him weird that he does better with difficult chances minamino does have talent and a bit of pace but his decision making is awful & he's basically a feather on the ball.  

[The Cat]

48 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Was Ralph not the one who specifically made us have a small squad in the first place though? 

The way I see this is that he did prefer a small squad in Germany (less games, less physical) and wanted to implement the same here but once he realised how much more effort is required in the Premier League and how much a few key injuries at the same time weakened the team he decided otherwise.

People are allowed to change their mind, although for some posters this evidently is not the case if you manage Saints. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

10 hours ago, hackedoff said:

One drawback on having an improved final few performances is that the board will assume the " blip" is over and not bother to improve the squad for next season.

Exactly. They will ignore the fact that our good form and results earlier in the season provided us with a cushion to avoid relegation. If we climb a few places up the league the Board will stay sat in Cuckoo Land and say everything is great. It isn't!.

[Viking Saint]

12 hours ago, Saint Fan CaM said:

So Ralph has his strongest side...let’s see what he can do. Something tells me we’ll still lose. Why? Because that’s the mentality around the squad, perhaps the entire club, at the moment. The way we play, tip tap practice pitch football...grown men playing a teenagers game. Jeez I’m not THAT disillusioned surely?!😳😂 In truth this could go any which way, so hey let’s say 3-1 win.

good call

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Was Ralph not the one who specifically made us have a small squad in the first place though? 

I believe he was, but that was early days, he probably had no idea what he was getting into, fair play if he has recognised he was wrong and is out to correct it.

[eelpie]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Was Ralph not the one who specifically made us have a small squad in the first place though? 

Anyone with a pair of boot straps could see we had amassed a squad that included drifters. Unfortunately Gao also wanted cash for some of the better players. 

[Greenridge]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Was Ralph not the one who specifically made us have a small squad in the first place though? 

Of course he wasn't. I can't believe some people are so naive. He said time and time again through recent transfer windows that we needed players and he expected them to arrive. When they didn't he had to come up with the line that he didn't actually need them and wanted a smaller squad. People believe that? Seriously.

[JRM]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Bent is decent too. It does take time for pundits to get comfortable and often people making snap judgements. 

When I saw the pundits I wasn't hopeful, especially Clinton who just rambles all the time, but they were ok actually except for agreeing that it was a pen and Zaha "did well to win it" when clearly he stuck his leg in front of Redmond and dived. 

It was nice to actually enjoy a game for once, good performance, Minamino does seem too weak, there was a picture on the Saints website of the team training during the week and looked like he was struggling to do a press up which would explain a lot. 

Edited 12 May, 2021 by JRM

[Turkish]

I was particularly impressed with the PPA stat or whatever the hell it was that they pulled out a couple of times. Whatever will they come up with next. Another meaningless load of bollocks for the geeks on here to bash one out over.

[ErwinK1961]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

The way I see this is that he did prefer a small squad in Germany (less games, less physical) and wanted to implement the same here but once he realised how much more effort is required in the Premier League and how much a few key injuries at the same time weakened the team he decided otherwise.

People are allowed to change their mind, although for some posters this evidently is not the case if you manage Saints. 

Wow, some common sense. Well said sir.

I would also add that I'm sure he said he liked a small squad, which is then supplemented by having younger/academy players - evidently our current crop are nowhere near good enough to help with any sort of squad depth (Tella aside).

 

[ErwinK1961]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Bent is decent too. It does take time for pundits to get comfortable and often people making snap judgements. 

Quite enjoyed Ekoku on comms. No saying stuff for the sake of it and seemed to have done his research on us, which makes a change from the usual Redknapp/Carragher and co. rubbish.

[Toadhall Saint]

2 hours ago, The Cat said:

The way I see this is that he did prefer a small squad in Germany (less games, less physical) and wanted to implement the same here but once he realised how much more effort is required in the Premier League and how much a few key injuries at the same time weakened the team he decided otherwise.

People are allowed to change their mind, although for some posters this evidently is not the case if you manage Saints. 

It’s called learning.

[Baird of the land]

23 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Wow, some common sense. Well said sir.

I would also add that I'm sure he said he liked a small squad, which is then supplemented by having younger/academy players - evidently our current crop are nowhere near good enough to help with any sort of squad depth (Tella aside).

 

Yeah the poor u23 crop is surely a factor.

While we do need some more depth, I do hope we don't swing too far back in the other direction in being loaded with mediocre dross.

[saintwbu]

38 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Quite enjoyed Ekoku on comms. No saying stuff for the sake of it and seemed to have done his research on us, which makes a change from the usual Redknapp/Carragher and co. rubbish.

Normally like Ekoku on commentary, was a little bit annoying last night as seemed to be impressed by Zaha’s initiation of contact for the penalty, and almost gave Benteke MOTM somehow! But normally he’s good, feels like he actually watches teams like us and knows about us. Most other pundits just seem to make generalisations about any team outside the top 6 based on the actual game they’re commentating on.

[Badger]

33 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Normally like Ekoku on commentary, was a little bit annoying last night as seemed to be impressed by Zaha’s initiation of contact for the penalty, and almost gave Benteke MOTM somehow! But normally he’s good, feels like he actually watches teams like us and knows about us. Most other pundits just seem to make generalisations about any team outside the top 6 based on the actual game they’re commentating on.

Recall hearing Danny Murphy saying Cedric was a good crosser of the ball ! Not sure that was based on anything factual.

[Baird of the land]

39 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Normally like Ekoku on commentary, was a little bit annoying last night as seemed to be impressed by Zaha’s initiation of contact for the penalty, and almost gave Benteke MOTM somehow! But normally he’s good, feels like he actually watches teams like us and knows about us. Most other pundits just seem to make generalisations about any team outside the top 6 based on the actual game they’re commentating on.

I can see why a former footballer would be impressed by a player's cleverness in terms of initiating contact to make it look natural.

I thought Benteke was good for them, we really struggled to deal with him at times despite our height at the back.

[ErwinK1961]

30 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I can see why a former footballer would be impressed by a player's cleverness in terms of initiating contact to make it look natural.

I thought Benteke was good for them, we really struggled to deal with him at times despite our height at the back.

Agree, thought Benteke had a good game (playing for a contract somewhere by any chance?) - don't think Vestergaard won a header against him for most of the night.

Might have been a stretch to have him MOTM though.

[saintwbu]

49 minutes ago, Badger said:

Recall hearing Danny Murphy saying Cedric was a good crosser of the ball ! Not sure that was based on anything factual.

Haha that’s literally the line I had in my head when I typed that!! It was in the FA Cup replay against Derby at St Mary’s, couldn’t believe my ears.

[saintwbu]

42 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

I can see why a former footballer would be impressed by a player's cleverness in terms of initiating contact to make it look natural.

I thought Benteke was good for them, we really struggled to deal with him at times despite our height at the back.

Maybe so, but to follow it with ‘definitely a penalty, clumsy from Redmond’ whilst simultaneously basically saying that Zaha dived/cheated seemed somewhat contradictory.

Benteke was decent in the first half. But as players on the losing team never get MOTM, and his opposing striker scored twice, whilst his partner scored one and assisted one, i’m not sure he was even close to being MOTM, personally. 

[SaintTex]

17 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Redmond assisted the palace goal and the penalty...

the penalty - not going to blame Redmond for Zaha's cynical play. I wish referees were schooled to look out for this kind of stuff. Hell, even VAR allowed it after reviewing the video.

The handball ruling has language like "arm/hand in an unnatural position". Why can't they apply the same for an offensive player looking for a foul? Zaha's leg was definitely extended in "unnatural position".

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

the penalty - not going to blame Redmond for Zaha's cynical play. I wish referees were schooled to look out for this kind of stuff. Hell, even VAR allowed it after reviewing the video.

The handball ruling has language like "arm/hand in an unnatural position". Why can't they apply the same for an offensive player looking for a foul? Zaha's leg was definitely extended in "unnatural position".

Yeah, it's like sticking your fingers in the bicyle spokes and expecting compensation. it is cheating and I don't like it.

Just don't expect any changes soon.

[Charlie Wayman]

A very entertaining match in which the best and the worst of today's Saints was on offer. All of the players acquitted themselves reasonably well, OK nearly everyone made a mistake or two but what was good to see was the team battling for every ball right to the end.

Ings gets MotM over Forster simply because he is a striker and goals are more impressive and memorable than stops. Both of Danny's goals were amazing in their delicacy and precision (Note: Adams, you don't have to blindly leather it every time) whilst Fraser's penalty save was absolutely top drawer. Where are his critics now? Still there's plenty of time left this season for them to come out of the woodwork and have another go at him.

Now it seems it's Minamino's turn for the mindless boo boys to turn on. Contrary to what a few of them have said on this thread, he played really well last night linking up with the MFs to create chances for the strikers. Give him more game time and we've got the makings of a very fine and intelligent player.

Better late than never comes to mind this morning.

[Chez]

 

20 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Good performance. It's amazing the difference Danny Ings makes to how the whole team plays.

Ings scores, we win and the assessment of the team's performance changes completely. Ings doesn't score, we don't win and the same performance is seen in a whole new light. For example, when you lead, a backwards pass doesn't annoy anyone, ever. 

Not sure who much Ings contributed to the overall performance. He finishes stuff off brilliantly, and without him we suck, but the drive, tempo etc etc is by and large down to others.

[VectisSaint]

47 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 

Now it seems it's Minamino's turn for the mindless boo boys to turn on. Contrary to what a few of them have said on this thread, he played really well last night linking up with the MFs to create chances for the strikers. Give him more game time and we've got the makings of a very fine and intelligent player.

 

He really didn't. No idea what game you were watching. Its not being a boo boy as you put it, its observing his play (or lack of). He is far too lightweight and gives the ball almost whenever he gets it. I take heart from the fact that he will never be a Saints player, there is no chance (in my opinion) of us signing him. I can't see him ever becoming a regular at Liverpool either.

[Chez]

7 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Quite enjoyed Ekoku on comms. No saying stuff for the sake of it and seemed to have done his research on us, which makes a change from the usual Redknapp/Carragher and co. rubbish.

Ekoku has done a lot of Saints commentaries recently and knows us well. He speaks a lot sense and is pretty eloquent. Morrison has improved, but is still fucking terrible, almost unlistenable, to me anyway. I think he gets the gig because he appeals to the yoof. I'm getting old, but having people in jobs that need to be eloquent speakers that quite obviously aren't, drives me insane. Stealin' a living IMO.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

A very entertaining match in which the best and the worst of today's Saints was on offer. All of the players acquitted themselves reasonably well, OK nearly everyone made a mistake or two but what was good to see was the team battling for every ball right to the end.

 

Question, if Stephens' mistake had been punished and we lose that game, but every single other aspect of the performance remains the same, would you be saying it was great to see the team battling for every ball to the end" or would you be saying we are fucking shit? 

It's amazing the difference in the evaluation of the performance depending on the result. Win and there is no mention of beaches, attitude, body language, effort, heads turned, fitness etc. etc.

[SNSUN]

10 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

He really didn't. No idea what game you were watching. Its not being a boo boy as you put it, its observing his play (or lack of). He is far too lightweight and gives the ball almost whenever he gets it. I take heart from the fact that he will never be a Saints player, there is no chance (in my opinion) of us signing him. I can't see him ever becoming a regular at Liverpool either.

Agree, I’m not saying he didn’t do anything good because he did a couple of decent things, and he at least seemed to be trying and pressing, but he was too easily knocked off the ball and he gave it away a lot.

 

If you count all Minamino’s touches and result thereof, I’d say he had far more bad ones than good ones. Maybe playing on the right isn’t his best position but I wouldn’t want him back after his loan as I think there would be players we could sign much more suited to the Prem. Could he change and bulk up? Perhaps but at 26 and entering his prime, I can’t see it.

 

I enjoyed last night’s match, more as I thought Palace were decent. Che in particular started very quietly but grew in confidence and ended up with a goal and assist. A good night’s work. I also thought KWP did well bearing in mind who he had to contend with. Zaha must hate playing Saints.

 

Oh while the way Clinton Morrison talks does grate on me, he seems to know his stuff, like how key Romeu is to us.

[LiberalCommunist]

The pressure was off, as a spectator. I was ready for a kick in the nuts, but after a early brain fart and a weak arse penalty, I must say, I really enjoyed that performance. Very cohesive, well organised.  We were good in the Liverpool game as well. We moved the ball well, showed great energy & desire, but we missed an ingredient. One Danny Ings. 

I'm more worried about him going today, than at any other stage. He takes Che up a couple levels. I'd prefer him to wind the contract down and leave for nothing than take anything south of £25M. Seriously. 

What ever happens now, with a couple more goals Danny will leap frog Marion Pahars into third place all time EPL scorers for us, and he has earned that. Lets hope he's here to hunt down Beattie. 

 

[supersonic]

59 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

The pressure was off, as a spectator. I was ready for a kick in the nuts, but after a early brain fart and a weak arse penalty, I must say, I really enjoyed that performance. Very cohesive, well organised.  We were good in the Liverpool game as well. We moved the ball well, showed great energy & desire, but we missed an ingredient. One Danny Ings. 

I'm more worried about him going today, than at any other stage. He takes Che up a couple levels. I'd prefer him to wind the contract down and leave for nothing than take anything south of £25M. Seriously. 

What ever happens now, with a couple more goals Danny will leap frog Marion Pahars into third place all time EPL scorers for us, and he has earned that. Lets hope he's here to hunt down Beattie. 

 

I always got the impression this is what would happen anyway.

If you notice, before the fans forum, all communication from the club said they "expect Ings to be here next season", not that he'd sign a new deal.

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, SaintTex said:

the penalty - not going to blame Redmond for Zaha's cynical play. I wish referees were schooled to look out for this kind of stuff. Hell, even VAR allowed it after reviewing the video.

The handball ruling has language like "arm/hand in an unnatural position". Why can't they apply the same for an offensive player looking for a foul? Zaha's leg was definitely extended in "unnatural position".

Redmond wasn't to blame for the goal either.

[John Boy Saint]

WooHoo I got a double last night - Saints Won! And I won a tenner on the Saints Foundation Super Draw! 😎

[Saint86]

44 minutes ago, supersonic said:

I always got the impression this is what would happen anyway.

If you notice, before the fans forum, all communication from the club said they "expect Ings to be here next season", not that he'd sign a new deal.

Contract wise, nothing will happen with Ings until after the transfer window shuts.

[Jeremy]

How about trying to get Chris Woods during the off-season?  He seems to give 100%e every game despite his apparent technical limitations that I've read about.

[Gingeletiss]

Umm! having just watched the whole match again, I have to say, that the Palace goal was offside. Watch the free kick, when taken, three Palace players were offside, the play the went into phase 2, where, they scored their goal, and Benteke was onside. But it should of gone back to the first phase, which was offside. My opinion. 
Also, in the 74 minute their substitute forward threw himself to the ground with zero contact, in an attempt at gaming a penalty. Finally, Zaha’s assault on Stephens in the last few minutes , was a clear red card IMO.

[northam soul]

Wasn’t the Zaha penalty exactly the same as Tellas non penalty against Leeds.

Attacker puts leg into defender so no penalty.

[DT]

4 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

Umm! having just watched the whole match again, I have to say, that the Palace goal was offside. Watch the free kick, when taken, three Palace players were offside, the play the went into phase 2, where, they scored their goal, and Benteke was onside. But it should of gone back to the first phase, which was offside. My opinion. 
Also, in the 74 minute their substitute forward threw himself to the ground with zero contact, in an attempt at gaming a penalty. Finally, Zaha’s assault on Stephens in the last few minutes , was a clear red card IMO.

A really terrible ref in a season of quite unbelievably bad refereeing performances, backed up by their mates watching the VAR telly and the refs union. We have been at the wrong end of a fair few of those, starting with that Villa game where Cash caught the ball on the line (virtually). Feels like we're pretty hard done by on them overall, and the Zaha pen was just the latest. He's very good at tricking refs. ie cheating. It all rather wears away at one's love of the Prem, and football generally.

[Totton Saint]

Ings looked so pleased when we scored each time it  I hard to believe he wants to go

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Ings looked so pleased when we scored each time it  I hard to believe he wants to go

Probably has a tasty goal bonus which would help.

[Matthew Le God]

13 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

Umm! having just watched the whole match again, I have to say, that the Palace goal was offside. Watch the free kick, when taken, three Palace players were offside, the play the went into phase 2, where, they scored their goal, and Benteke was onside. But it should of gone back to the first phase, which was offside. My opinion. 

It was not remotely close to being offside. Scott Dann with the assist was clearly onside and the others you mentioned were no where near the ball, so were not interfering with play.

 

Edited 13 May, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[davefizzy14]

A brilliant turnaround from us. The awsome penalty save from Fraser was the catalyst for us to go on and win the game both of Ingsys goals were special, thats what a top player does Che's finish was well taken by him  Both him and Danny are such a lethal strike partnership, they read off of each other so well. The whole team played great - sets us up nicely for Saturday COYR

[Gingeletiss]

4 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

It was not remotely close to being offside. Scott Dann with the assist was clearly onside and the others you mentioned were no where near the ball, so were not interfering with play.

Sorry Mr Always Right, but they were offside when the freekick was taken, if the play had been brought back to that point, then in my opinion, it would be disallowed. You have your viewpoint, I have mine, I have seen goals ruled out for that sort of thing all season long.

 

[Matthew Le God]

@Gingeletiss That is not what the offside rule is. A player can't be offside if the ball is no where near them. 

Scott Dann with the assist and Benteke with the goal were clearly onside, what any other Palace players did was irrelevant as the ball was not near them.

Edited 13 May, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Whitey Grandad]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

@Gingeletiss That is not what the offside rule is. A player can't be offside if the ball is no where near them. 

Scott Dann with the assist and Benteke with the goal were clearly onside, what any other Palace players did was irrelevant as the ball was not near them.

Not necessarily true. For example a player in an offside position might be standing right in front of the goalkeeper with the ball twenty yards away.

Not relevant to Benteke’s goal though. Not offside in any way.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Not necessarily true. For example a player in an offside position might be standing right in front of the goalkeeper with the ball twenty yards away.

In your example he'd only be offside if interfering with the keeper's line of sight if the ball was coming towards the keeper. In which case he would be near the ball.

Edited 13 May, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[SNSUN]

Oh I know what I was going to say...

 

Is it standard to get VAR to check every saved penalty? There was no way Fraser's foot was off the line and it stopped me mid-celebration when they were checking it. 

It's almost as if VAR (or the rule makers) want the penalty taker to score. (Which is the opposite of strikers when it comes to the offside trap it seems...)

[Whitey Grandad]

45 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

In your example he'd only be offside if interfering with the keeper's line of sight if the ball was coming towards the keeper. In which case he would be near the ball.

It’s not worth arguing over but theoretical it’s possible for an offside player to block the movement of an opposition player even though the ball is long way away.

I can’t ever remember it happening.

[Whitey Grandad]

12 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

Oh I know what I was going to say...

 

Is it standard to get VAR to check every saved penalty? There was no way Fraser's foot was off the line and it stopped me mid-celebration when they were checking it. 

It's almost as if VAR (or the rule makers) want the penalty taker to score. (Which is the opposite of strikers when it comes to the offside trap it seems...)

Yes, that was a big and unpleasant surprise for me. There were a few examples back at the beginning of the season but since then nothing. The problem with insisting of strict adherence to the laws is that even though it’s legally correct it unbalances the game to the extent that forwards would rather win a penalty than try to score a goal.

It’s also legal for the penalty taker to hesitate or make a jump in his run up but this temps the keeper to make a move and could cause a retake.

I think that penalties have become too common and are worth too much. If they’re going to hand them out like sweets then I propose drastic measures such as downgrading them to an ordinary free kick or at least moving the spot back to the edge of the D.