Southampton 1-1 Leicester - Match Thread

[VectisSaint]

34 minutes ago, Tom & Gerry said:

The thing that gets me that I can't see mentioned is that the sending off was for denying a goal scoring opportunity. When was there a goal scoring opportunity? The sequence of events was Vestergaard plays the ball back to McCarthy, his follow through catches Vardy's ankle and you can argue if that is even a foul., but the ball is gone (not long gone I grant you but Vardy is never getting to it), there never was a goal scoring opportunity. It has to be rescinded.    

It will only be rescinded if we appeal, and Ralph did not seem too enthusiastic about doing so when asked after the game (despite Sky reporting otherwise). Think Ralph was so pissed off with Vestegaard's La k of concentration that lead to the incident that he probably thinks who cares if he is banned for one game. This was a sign of the old Vestegaard being back. Of course the decision was wrong, but I have serious doubts that we will appeal and thus the red card will stand. 

[Chapel End]

Just now, VectisSaint said:

It will only be rescinded if we appeal, and Ralph did not seem too enthusiastic about doing so when asked after the game (despite Sky reporting otherwise). Think Ralph was so pissed off with Vestegaard's La k of concentration that lead to the incident that he probably thinks who cares if he is banned for one game. This was a sign of the old Vestegaard being back. Of course the decision was wrong, but I have serious doubts that we will appeal and thus the red card will stand. 

I'm sure I read on a link provided on here that we are going to appeal but not sure where it is

[Kenilworthy]

16 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

It will only be rescinded if we appeal, and Ralph did not seem too enthusiastic about doing so when asked after the game (despite Sky reporting otherwise). Think Ralph was so pissed off with Vestegaard's La k of concentration that lead to the incident that he probably thinks who cares if he is banned for one game. This was a sign of the old Vestegaard being back. Of course the decision was wrong, but I have serious doubts that we will appeal and thus the red card will stand. 

Whatever anyone thinks of Vestergaard, not appealing the red card will just reinforce the opinion of officials that we are a team they can continue to abuse

[The Cat]

20 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

I'm sure I read on a link provided on here that we are going to appeal but not sure where it is

Said we were in an Athletic article.

[skintsaint]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12291908/southampton-boss-ralph-hasenhuttl-calls-jannik-vestergaard-red-card-simply-wrong-and-plans-to-appeal-decision

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

It's part of the dark arts of football, it's hardly like we don't do it ourselves, even one of the 'purest' football teams in the world that play some beautiful football under Pepe, still purposely leg people up to prevent counters. 

JWP spent a whole evening winding Zaha up and eventually got him sent off. 

Kane is amazing at buying free kicks, he backs into defenders and then falls over. 

Just all part of the game really and been going on for years. 

But with VAR there is really no excuse for Refs not to get the right decision, and yet again they showed how flawed the system is because they seem determined not to overturn poor decisions and embarrass their mates, so what we have is VAR basically confirming bad decisions, instead of correcting blatant mistakes, as that decisions was last night. Pretty much universally its been said that wasn't a red card and doubtful you could even claim its a card, he got the ball, wasn't over the top, wasn't out of control and got there before the attacker did, clearly prodding the ball back to McCarthy making it very unlikely Vardy would have got near the ball. 

But we are currently living in a situation where Refs are giving red cards for players kicking the ball. Showing the problem is not VAR, its the Refs themselves making poor decision after poor decision, and they are then also in the VAR box backing up those poor decisions. 

It just seems at the moment that if a player gets hit and goes down rolling on the floor, the refs are looking to give the foul regardless of the context or the defender getting the ball.  That is their first instinct, I mean Son's red card against Silva is a great example, a horrible unfortunate injury yes, but Son literally got tripped up by another player and fell into Silva, but the red comes out almost automatically. That Balbuenna red, just completely shocking, the guy clears the ball, literally a clean kick and the opposition player runs into his follow through, red comes out straight away. 

I remember a pen Mane 'won' against Spurs, where the defender is kicking the ball and Mane comes from the blindside and just sticks his leg in the way, doesn't try to get the ball just puts his leg in the way and gets a pen, complete joke, but the refs have no real clue. 

It's similar to the stupid handballs they give, people blasting the ball at defenders from 3 yards with the arms to side, it's expecting defenders to basically have no arms and these red cards they seem to expect momentum and physics not to exist, its near impossible to kick a ball without a follow through and some momentum. 

IMO they need to do something about the Refs generally as many of them are poor, some need clear retiring (Dean) or demoting, and others need more training or instruction. 

BUT the biggest thing they need to do is take VAR away from the refs, it needs to go to an independent panel of probably a group of ex players. 

Agreed, except that these refs are only doing what they have been told to do.

[JustinSFC]

17 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

this is the sort of insight The Athletic used to provide with Carl but now I am more interested in Prost as they are creating interesting and unique looks at our games

Anka and the bloke who covers Chelsea are the best around.

Sheldon isn't anywhere near the club in the same way Anka was.

[saint77]

41 minutes ago, Kenilworthy said:

Whatever anyone thinks of Vestergaard, not appealing the red card will just reinforce the opinion of officials that we are a team they can continue to abuse

Agree with what you say and this should 100% get rescinded 

[cloggy saint]

1 hour ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

You are all missing the point, these refs are not poor decision makers, not innocent in the punishments they hand out. THE HAVE BEEN GROOMED TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL A GAME!!

 The FA won't promote them unless they manage the dark arts of controlling a game for whom them deem fit for the points. We have watched it all our lives. Regs have the ultimate control over a game and they have time and time again used it to determine the outcome of the game, dispite the teams on the field. 

We begged for fairness (smaller clubs) until they finally brought in technology to help . Goal line tech 👍great. Var was ok in the beginning,  over ruled refs and their poor calls( more like cheating calls) and made them look bad. So they have spent the last 2 year neutering var until it is now useless at correcting poor decision. The ref has his game back ( yes his! not our game), he has the control back, the ability for him and the FA to guide the clubs they Deam worthy of points. 

Now many have blamed our current situations on Les calling him everything but the antichrist. He and his gangsters now are in CONTROL of the game! And we have consistently suffered some of the most worst calls I have seen against Saints over the past few seasons. BLATANT CHEATING BY THE REF AND FA! 

ps. The FA has to be culpable because they never correct or discipline these very poor decisions, therefore they must support these decisions. 

 

I have no words. Do you actually believe this tripe?

[Singapore Saint]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

It will only be rescinded if we appeal, and Ralph did not seem too enthusiastic about doing so when asked after the game (despite Sky reporting otherwise). Think Ralph was so pissed off with Vestegaard's La k of concentration that lead to the incident that he probably thinks who cares if he is banned for one game. This was a sign of the old Vestegaard being back. Of course the decision was wrong, but I have serious doubts that we will appeal and thus the red card will stand. 

It will be appealed if only to show the player the club stands behind him.

[JustinSFC]

2 hours ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

You are all missing the point, these refs are not poor decision makers, not innocent in the punishments they hand out. THE HAVE BEEN GROOMED TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL A GAME!!

 The FA won't promote them unless they manage the dark arts of controlling a game for whom them deem fit for the points. We have watched it all our lives. Regs have the ultimate control over a game and they have time and time again used it to determine the outcome of the game, dispite the teams on the field. 

We begged for fairness (smaller clubs) until they finally brought in technology to help . Goal line tech 👍great. Var was ok in the beginning,  over ruled refs and their poor calls( more like cheating calls) and made them look bad. So they have spent the last 2 year neutering var until it is now useless at correcting poor decision. The ref has his game back ( yes his! not our game), he has the control back, the ability for him and the FA to guide the clubs they Deam worthy of points. 

Now many have blamed our current situations on Les calling him everything but the antichrist. He and his gangsters now are in CONTROL of the game! And we have consistently suffered some of the most worst calls I have seen against Saints over the past few seasons. BLATANT CHEATING BY THE REF AND FA! 

ps. The FA has to be culpable because they never correct or discipline these very poor decisions, therefore they must support these decisions. 

 

Ok I'm going to say it...Jesus wept.

[Chapel End]

8 minutes ago, Singapore Saint said:

It will be appealed if only to show the player the club stands behind him.

No, we are appealing because every man, woman and their dog know the decision was a absolute joke

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

24 minutes ago, Singapore Saint said:

It will be appealed if only to show the player the club stands behind him.

Maybe Ralph shouldn’t have blanked him when he walked off. 

[Tamesaint]

15 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Maybe Ralph shouldn’t have blanked him when he walked off. 

Why on earth not? Without the benefit of the slow motion replay it appeared that Vesty had let his teammates down big time. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Pony. Watch the players reactions, they were fully expecting it to be over turned by VAR. poor man management, I hope he apologised afterwards. 

[Singapore Saint]

On 01/05/2021 at 18:56, Red said:

Also, I don't see why the game had to stop to allow Fofana food and drink? I get he was fasting, but that was his choice and Leicester's to let him play. He could have gone off the field for a few seconds without the rest of play being held up or waited until half time (only 10 minutes away).

I am in no way disrespecting his faith or beliefs but it just seems PC gone mad. What next, we have a break when muslin prayers are due at dusk, Good Friday/Easter Monday remembrance, Poppy Day, etc. etc. Might be amusing to have a bar mitzvah break for the "ritual event" and having the player return to play however 🙂 - again no offence meant to anyone

I'm not an adherent of Islam but I know a bit about it.

Muslims are allowed (halal) to break fast (iftar) AFTER a particular time (iftar time) each day during fasting month (Ramadan) but they are not required to break fast AT that time, although it would be ideal to break fast as close to iftar time as possible.

So, short of stopping play, if Leicester didn't want to play with a man short for a couple of minutes while Fofana broke fast on the sidelines, he could have waited till half-time.

Fofana could also have chosen not to fast on a match day, but he would be expected (indeed, required) to make up for it or pay it back by fasting any day he chooses after Ramadan is over.

[Chapel End]

40 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Why on earth not? Without the benefit of the slow motion replay it appeared that Vesty had let his teammates down big time. 

He doesn't like Ralf so will find anything he can to have a pop at him.

If he had done anything different he would say "why are you acknowledging him, he's just let the team down "

But soon as it became apparent it was a shit decision he could his wording.

#agenda

[JustinSFC]

39 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony. Watch the players reactions, they were fully expecting it to be over turned by VAR. poor man management, I hope he apologised afterwards. 

Johnny Evans and Maddison were trying to talk the ref down too.

I lip readed Evans who said:

"just take it easy a bit yeah".

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 30/04/2021 at 20:22, Lord Duckhunter said:

Did anyone see Ralph ignore Vesty on his way off, looked like it to me. 

 

On 30/04/2021 at 20:24, adrian lord said:

Yes 

Bad form from Ralph. Lacked grace.

 

On 30/04/2021 at 20:24, Saint86 said:

Yeah saw this. He's off in the summer, and the manager probably is to...

 

44 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

 

But soon as it became apparent it was a shit decision he could his wording.

#agenda

Wrong again. I posted at the time and people agreed. No agenda, just calling out poor man management when I see it. 

[VectisSaint]

4 hours ago, Chapel End said:

I'm sure I read on a link provided on here that we are going to appeal but not sure where it is

I've read since I posted that we have appealed The problem before that Sky were reporting after the game that Ralph was sure we would appeal, based on his post match interview, but listening to that interview Ralph said nothing of the sort. 

[Tom & Gerry]

We have to appeal. Even if we then drop him, which would be interesting.  We have to stand up for ourselves.

[Chapel End]

56 minutes ago, Tom & Gerry said:

We have to appeal. Even if we then drop him, which would be interesting.  We have to stand up for ourselves.

We are appealing mate, read further up the thread

[Tamesaint]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

 

 

Wrong again. I posted at the time and people agreed. No agenda, just calling out poor man management when I see it. 

Bollox.

People may have agreed with you but they had seen the Sky replay by then. Ralph hadn't had the benefit of the Sky replay when he blanked Vesty.

Ralph is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in your eyes.

 

[Singapore Saint]

On 01/05/2021 at 05:30, rallyboy said:

I can only imagine some gambling syndicate on the other side of the world made a fortune tonight on a first half red card.

No gambling syndicate in the world offers long odds on a red card in the first half when Saints are playing.

[Chapel End]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

Bollox.

People may have agreed with you but they had seen the Sky replay by then. Ralph hadn't had the benefit of the Sky replay when he blanked Vesty.

Ralph is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't in your eyes.

 

Correct 

[Chris cooper]

7 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Why on earth not? Without the benefit of the slow motion replay it appeared that Vesty had let his teammates down big time. 

The manager should back him regardless .. standard team principal.. we should surround the ref like one of ours is being mugged off .. it’s called togetherness and it shows resilience..you see the bigger teams do it and it’s wot we lack .. where’s jwp when the card is branded ? Shit show from him as a skipper !! We have no one on the field to lead us !

Edited 2 May, 2021 by Chris cooper

[Lord Duckhunter]

24 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

The manager should back him regardless .. standard team principal.. we should surround the ref like one of ours is being mugged off .. it’s called togetherness and it shows resilience..you see the bigger teams do it and it’s wot we lack .. where’s jwp when the card is branded ? Shit show from him as a skipper !! We have no one on the field to lead us !

Correct 

[Tamesaint]

38 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

The manager should back him regardless .. standard team principal.. we should surround the ref like one of ours is being mugged off .. it’s called togetherness and it shows resilience..you see the bigger teams do it and it’s wot we lack .. where’s jwp when the card is branded ? Shit show from him as a skipper !! We have no one on the field to lead us !

Take another look at the incident.

JWP was there pleading with the ref. As was Bednarek. As was Redmond. As was Armstrong. As was Minamino. What else did you want? JWP to chin the ref????

Another Saintsweb myth is that the team doesn't plead with the ref. Look at Bednarek after the handball incident before the ref points to the spot. Watch that again and then try to say that we don't talk to the ref. 

 

Edited 2 May, 2021 by Tamesaint

[trousers]

Apologies if this has already been posted. An interesting read.

https://www.prostinternational.com/2021/05/01/smokescreen-warm-ups-sympathy-with-shoddy-var-and-putting-cheese-in-the-trap-southampton-have-got-a-plan-b/

[Jeremy]

8 hours ago, Singapore Saint said:

I'm not an adherent of Islam but I know a bit about it.

Muslims are allowed (halal) to break fast (iftar) AFTER a particular time (iftar time) each day during fasting month (Ramadan) but they are not required to break fast AT that time, although it would be ideal to break fast as close to iftar time as possible.

So, short of stopping play, if Leicester didn't want to play with a man short for a couple of minutes while Fofana broke fast on the sidelines, he could have waited till half-time.

Fofana could also have chosen not to fast on a match day, but he would be expected (indeed, required) to make up for it or pay it back by fasting any day he chooses after Ramadan is over.

Absolutely agree with this. We want to watch sport and people playing sport. Not guys observing religious rituals on the field.  Next thing it'll be somebody saying the rosary on the anniversary of the death of his pet dog or something.

Keep obvious religion out of sport.

[Saint_dane]

1 hour ago, Jeremy said:

Absolutely agree with this. We want to watch sport and people playing sport. Not guys observing religious rituals on the field.  Next thing it'll be somebody saying the rosary on the anniversary of the death of his pet dog or something.

Keep obvious religion out of sport.

Iftar is not a religious ritual. just a nice gesture that takes 30 seconds and means that individuals are not at a disadvantage due to a protected characteristic. I'm not sure it has any negative or adverse impact on your lived reality. You'll spend much more time watching advertisers trying to sell you shit you don't need than you will seeing 4 seconds of a player eating a date. Maybe your issue runs a little deeper. 

[Jeremy]

ok fair enough I suppose, I didn't see how much time it took.  If it's brief then I guess it's ok. Not sure its about my "lived reality" however, whatever that means.

[austsaint]

3 hours ago, Jeremy said:

ok fair enough I suppose, I didn't see how much time it took.  If it's brief then I guess it's ok. Not sure its about my "lived reality" however, whatever that means.

What he means is that during the 20 or 30 seconds it takes for the player to eat half a banana, you could boil the kettle or walk to the fridge and  not miss a thing.

[Sunglasses Ron]

Another cracking effort from Garth Crooks this week, praising Saints for their performance, but then not picking any of our players and (of course) putting Evans in simply because he scored an easy header. At least he slammed the red card I guess...

This was an impressive display by Southampton. It wasn't that long ago the Saints played Leicester at home, had a man sent off and had nine goals put past them. These days this is a very different Southampton. The red card shown to Jannik Vestergaard was so appalling it makes you wonder what the game is coming to. Leicester missed a massive opportunity by not taking advantage of this shocking decision. It took a goal by Jonny Evans, who is in terrific form at the moment, to salvage a point for the Foxes. If Brendan Rodgers does go to Spurs, he could do a lot worse than take Evans with him.

I did laugh at the "this is a very different Southampton bit". I think most of us would say we're very similar up until Friday night!

Edited 4 May, 2021 by Sunglasses Ron

[John Boy Saint]

On 03/05/2021 at 02:24, Jeremy said:

ok fair enough I suppose, I didn't see how much time it took.  If it's brief then I guess it's ok. Not sure its about my "lived reality" however, whatever that means.

As was said in commentary when Fofana took his moment to feed - whilst drinking the bottle of Orange whatever "That certainly isn't touching the sides" 

[Tamesaint]

Any news on whether the red card has been rescinded?

[Alanh]

20 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Any news on whether the red card has been rescinded?

The appeal was successful.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Alanh said:

The appeal was successful.

Yes it was. I make that our last two sendings off now both overturned, despite VAR viewing the incident. What a joke. Was Jankewitz our only other red? 

[Kingsland Codger]

6 minutes ago, Alanh said:

The appeal was successful.

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2021-05-05/jannik-vestergaard-southampton-fc-wrongful-dismissal-fa-decision

As Turkish says, what a joke. The whole point of VAR is to have a second look at an incident and reverse an incorrect decsion if necessary, not to back up the onfield referee every time.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Kingsland Codger said:

https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2021-05-05/jannik-vestergaard-southampton-fc-wrongful-dismissal-fa-decision

As Turkish says, what a joke. The whole point of VAR is to have a second look at an incident and reverse an incorrect decsion if necessary, not to back up the onfield referee every time.

That seems to be all it's used for these days.

[OttawaSaint]

Just as well we didn't get tonked again only for them to rescind it and say "oops, my bad". Seems to be like they have this get out of jail card, if they fuck up, just rescind it later and move on. It's like the old saying, "It is easier to beg forgiveness than to seek permission". Yeah we get a player back, but what about points lost?

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Just as well we didn't get tonked again only for them to rescind it and say "oops, my bad".

# conspiracy klaxon #

One does wonder that if it had resulted in another tonking whether they would have so readily recinded it. Much easier to rescind when we potentially gained a point, rather than dropped 2 (due to the galvanising effect it seemed to have on the players this time around)