Southampton 1-1 Leicester - Match Thread

[itchen]

12 hours ago, SKD said:

You think it was the right call then, do you? 

Looks like it was.

[JustinSFC]

Feels like a win still. That was a great game from us.

[Totton Saint]

10 hours ago, Heisenberg said:

Hope the lads take confidence from that.

we probably lose that game with 11 men so red worked in our favour and galvanised the troops 

#WeMarchOn Liverpool away up next 

Just what I said to my wife at the end of the game

[Østerrike]

8th place finish is still possible

[VectisSaint]

8 hours ago, Saint WGC said:

I also wonder if the PL are backing this ref, then fair enough but I am pretty sure he would not have been considered to referee the Liverpool v Man U game this weekend so why is he able to ref our game. I get that all refs need to be given a chance but it’s almost like the elite refs referee the elite clubs and the new ones are given games involving the smaller or lower clubs in the same league. 

Pretty sure that new referees are given "lower ranking" matches to begin with, always have been. That was only Jones' 8th PL match, and Leicester are the only high ranked team he has refereed, no Gang of 6 teams, but strangely out of 8 games that was the 3rd time he has reffed Leicester, and all three have been away games. He doesn't give out too many cards, and only 2 reds so far (and 2 pens). Think it might be a while before he graduates to Gang of 6 matches based on last night's performance. Not helped by Jon Moss of course.

[Saint Billy]

I'm still angry regarding the sending off. I keep rerunning it in my head and still see it as a good recovery tackle. Perhaps my memory is biased but for me it was not even a yellow and just a damn good tackle that clearly got the ball away. I don't suppose Vardy going down and staying down like he was the first victim of a duck shoot had anything to do with the refs decision 🙄

[M271]

10 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

I'm still angry regarding the sending off. I keep rerunning it in my head and still see it as a good recovery tackle. Perhaps my memory is biased but for me it was not even a yellow and just a damn good tackle that clearly got the ball away. I don't suppose Vardy going down and staying down like he was the first victim of a duck shoot had anything to do with the refs decision 🙄

Why didn't Vardy go off to the sidelines after his treatment? Is there something in the rules you don't have to in certain situations? Or was it just an oversight by the officials?

Well played Saints, if we combine that solid play with 11 on the pitch and the extra forward we would be more difficult to beat and have a better chance of winning.

As others have said I could see us losing that game if Vest had not been sent off and we had played in a more open way.

[Minsk]

The red card was an appalling decision. I fail to see how it was any different from the Balbuena situation last weekend. Once Vest makes contact with the ball where is his foot supposed to go? Then, compare that with Fabhino assaulting Saint-Maximin towards the end of their match last Saturday - no attempt at all on the ball, deliberately took him out - yet because that was back near the half-way line just a yellow. To my mind St-Max was far more likely to go continue his run and score as he had the ball under control when cynically taken out. The authorities, refs and VAR really need to sort their shit out.

As for the rest of the match - we were excellent. A fantastic team performance. Macca made a couple of great stops; Stephens was inspired at LB; Salisu looks better and better every time I see him play; JWP and Stuey ran their socks off, as did Che and Redders; but MoM goes to KWP for me, composed defending, dangerous outlet when breaking forward and that header (also unlucky with the offside, that was a good finish).

[Red]

Also, I don't see why the game had to stop to allow Fofana food and drink? I get he was fasting, but that was his choice and Leicester's to let him play. He could have gone off the field for a few seconds without the rest of play being held up or waited until half time (only 10 minutes away).

I am in no way disrespecting his faith or beliefs but it just seems PC gone mad. What next, we have a break when muslin prayers are due at dusk, Good Friday/Easter Monday remembrance, Poppy Day, etc. etc. Might be amusing to have a bar mitzvah break for the "ritual event" and having the player return to play however 🙂 - again no offence meant to anyone

[Toussaint]

Just now, Red said:

Also, I don't see why the game had to stop to allow Fofana food and drink? I get he was fasting, but that was his choice and Leicester's to let him play. He could have gone off the field for a few seconds without the rest of play being held up or waited until half time (only 10 minutes away).

I am in no way disrespecting his faith or beliefs but it just seems PC gone mad. What next, we have a break when muslin prayers are due at dusk, Good Friday/Easter Monday remembrance, Poppy Day, etc. etc. Might be amusing to have a bar mitzvah break for the "ritual event" and having the player return to play however 🙂 - again no offence meant to anyone

Yep, absolute bullshit

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, M271 said:

Why didn't Vardy go off to the sidelines after his treatment? Is there something in the rules you don't have to in certain situations? Or was it just an oversight by the officials?

Well played Saints, if we combine that solid play with 11 on the pitch and the extra forward we would be more difficult to beat and have a better chance of winning.

As others have said I could see us losing that game if Vest had not been sent off and we had played in a more open way.

If the injury was caused by a cautionable offence, they do not need to leave the pitch.

[East Kent Saint]

3 hours ago, JRM said:

I heard Karen Carney commentate a few months back, her co-commentator said things are looking ominous for Arsenal, after a period of silence she said sorry I don't know what that means and claimed she'd never heard the word ominous before. 

If she was he she wouldn't have admitted it and then used it a few times incorrectly (according to Mrs EK}

Edited 1 May, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[BERMUDASAINT]

3 hours ago, hasper57saint said:

From the pre-match commentary right through the whole match the Leicester wank fest was in the forefront. Smith cannot ever give a balanced view on any of the Saints games that I have seen this season. It’s was almost orgiastic in its content. Why no remarks after Vardy had dived and won yet another Oscar for his performance? He should have received at least a yellow for simulation and like an earlier poster said ‘Why did he remain on the pitch after his recovery attention.’ We deserved that point last night and we actually turned up. Up yours Brendan and Vardy. Nip over to Smithies for more faux adulation.

Some will say we have saints rosey glasses, we we not robbed. It was the correct decision by the ref!!! And var!!!!

The blatant cheating against us is sickening, and the whole @#$%! Fa, sky etc are in on it. How can we be the only ones to see these big mistakes. Not one person on TV saw our view??????? Vardy is a diving piece of site, but never gets called out for it. Ref make big wrong decision,  which no one else saw  even the liester players? Silent Bob, Var does eff all? This is deliberate!!!vardy getting treated and not go off? Deliberate cheating.

I called up other supporters, they could not believe the red card? Yet we are to believe no one on the tele could see it? This is not the first game we have had blatant wrong calls and no one on TV see it our way, why? Why? Why? We have a target on our back and we are the only ones who cannot see it!

[BERMUDASAINT]

When you see How the refs and var comes to the rescue of the chosen clubs, it is sickening, they practically invent a foul or incident to make the calls they need. 

Strange how no one on the pitch saw what the ref saw? Even leicester players were shaking their heads at that criminal decision. He could not pull that red out any faster.

[The Cat]

14 minutes ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

When you see How the refs and var comes to the rescue of the chosen clubs, it is sickening, they practically invent a foul or incident to make the calls they need. 

Strange how no one on the pitch saw what the ref saw? Even leicester players were shaking their heads at that criminal decision. He could not pull that red out any faster.

I'm actually not that fussed about the ref getting it wrong because that sort of thing happens but the fact that Jon Moss (who is normally fair and decent) on VAR didn't tell the ref to have another look is beyond belief.

[redkeith]

Just watched it this morning.  Never a red card in a million years. On the Guardian comments blog all the Leicester fans seem to agree as well.  Football Focus dideven mention it. If it was Man u or the dippers they would have debated it so long that they would have cancel Songs of Praise the next day.

The worst tackle all night was on Tella by Ndidi? and the ref never even talked to him.

Great defensive performance, if we can wrap some pressing periods around that we will do well. 

Salisu was immense,  and needs more games.

 

Edited 1 May, 2021 by redkeith

[derry]

As I remember it Armstrong rolled a pass to Vestergaard who took his eye off the ball, meanwhile Vardy was probably about 10 yards away as soon as he saw Vestergaard miss the ball he sprinted hard at right angles to Vestergaard's position from the ball, Vestergaard stretched to knock the ball away but Vardy's pace took him into the path of Vestergaard's momentum. It was an accident not a foul. Neither the referee or Jon Moss took into consideration Vardy's part in the incident. He wasn't tackled he didn't have the ball, Vestergaard had already moved it out of his path.  I haven't checked how close Macarthy was, but I assume he was reacting and moving out.

The referees got this wrong. Even if they thought it was a foul, the fact Vestergaard played the ball before colliding with the inrushing Vardy who wasn't in possession of the ball should mean a maximum yellow card, I may be wrong but I understood that the red card in those circumstances was only if the player in possession was fouled without any contact with the ball.

The nasty streak in me remembered Vardy going into the back of Van Dyck's achilles and the damage he did. I didn't wish him well and was disappointed he ran it off. I was hoping that he was getting a dose of his own medicine, still living in hope. Dirty little bastard.

 

[Shance]

Anyone think the red ill get rescinded?

[Chapel End]

1 minute ago, Shance said:

Anyone think the red ill get rescinded?

It bloody should 

[Whitey Grandad]

23 minutes ago, derry said:

As I remember it Armstrong rolled a pass to Vestergaard who took his eye off the ball, meanwhile Vardy was probably about 10 yards away as soon as he saw Vestergaard miss the ball he sprinted hard at right angles to Vestergaard's position from the ball, Vestergaard stretched to knock the ball away but Vardy's pace took him into the path of Vestergaard's momentum. It was an accident not a foul. Neither the referee or Jon Moss took into consideration Vardy's part in the incident. He wasn't tackled he didn't have the ball, Vestergaard had already moved it out of his path.  I haven't checked how close Macarthy was, but I assume he was reacting and moving out.

The referees got this wrong. Even if they thought it was a foul, the fact Vestergaard played the ball before colliding with the inrushing Vardy who wasn't in possession of the ball should mean a maximum yellow card, I may be wrong but I understood that the red card in those circumstances was only if the player in possession was fouled without any contact with the ball.

The nasty streak in me remembered Vardy going into the back of Van Dyck's achilles and the damage he did. I didn't wish him well and was disappointed he ran it off. I was hoping that he was getting a dose of his own medicine, still living in hope. Dirty little bastard.

 

There’s no way that it could be described as ‘reckless with excessive force’. Vestergaard was at full stretch and got a good contact on the ball, enough to pass it back to McCarthy. Vardy got there late and planted his foot under Vestergaard’s outstretched leg. Nothing vicious or deliberate about it. McCarthy would have comfortably gathered the ball. 
 

Vardy got caught. It could so easily have been Vestergaard that got caught.

[derry]

7 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There’s no way that it could be described as ‘reckless with excessive force’. Vestergaard was at full stretch and got a good contact on the ball, enough to pass it back to McCarthy. Vardy got there late and planted his foot under Vestergaard’s outstretched leg. Nothing vicious or deliberate about it. McCarthy would have comfortably gathered the ball. 
 

Vardy got caught. It could so easily have been Vestergaard that got caught.

I was hoping you'd give your opinion. What's your take on the rule. I've checked McCarthy's position and the ball was gone towards McCarthy before Vardy collided with Vestergaard. The collision was as much Vardy's actions as Vestergaard's momentum. I'd go so far as to say I can't see how it could be a foul, more an accidental collision.

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, Red said:

Also, I don't see why the game had to stop to allow Fofana food and drink? I get he was fasting, but that was his choice and Leicester's to let him play. He could have gone off the field for a few seconds without the rest of play being held up or waited until half time (only 10 minutes away).

I am in no way disrespecting his faith or beliefs but it just seems PC gone mad. What next, we have a break when muslin prayers are due at dusk, Good Friday/Easter Monday remembrance, Poppy Day, etc. etc. Might be amusing to have a bar mitzvah break for the "ritual event" and having the player return to play however 🙂 - again no offence meant to anyone

I worked with Abdul who was a strict Muslim. A smashing bloke who used to get a dispensation when he came away with us in Internal Audit during Ramadan. He had to catch up with his fasting at other times of the year but it meant that he could eat and drink during the day and his work was unaffected. Why couldn't Fofana have a similar dispensation? 

Mind you, Abdul's "catch up" days tended to be in December (7 hours daylight per day) when Ramadan was in June (18 hours daylight). There were no flies on Abdul. 😁😁

[ecuk268]

2 hours ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

Some will say we have saints rosey glasses, we we not robbed. It was the correct decision by the ref!!! And var!!!!

The blatant cheating against us is sickening, and the whole @#$%! Fa, sky etc are in on it. How can we be the only ones to see these big mistakes. Not one person on TV saw our view??????? Vardy is a diving piece of site, but never gets called out for it. Ref make big wrong decision,  which no one else saw  even the liester players? Silent Bob, Var does eff all? This is deliberate!!!vardy getting treated and not go off? Deliberate cheating.

I called up other supporters, they could not believe the red card? Yet we are to believe no one on the tele could see it? This is not the first game we have had blatant wrong calls and no one on TV see it our way, why? Why? Why? We have a target on our back and we are the only ones who cannot see it!

Both studio pundits said that the red card was wrong.

Vardy didn't go off because the injury resulted from a cardable (is that a word?) offence.

[Whitey Grandad]

32 minutes ago, derry said:

I was hoping you'd give your opinion. What's your take on the rule. I've checked McCarthy's position and the ball was gone towards McCarthy before Vardy collided with Vestergaard. The collision was as much Vardy's actions as Vestergaard's momentum. I'd go so far as to say I can't see how it could be a foul, more an accidental collision.

I don’t think it was even a foul. Clearly ball before man and it was only the contact with Vardy’s ankle that could make anybody consider it to be a foul.

I wasn’t reckless, it wasn’t two-footed, it wasn’t with excessive force. It took the officials some time to come up with the DOGSO interpretation but that doesn’t hold water. Any possible foul happens after Vestergaard has played the ball and Vardy wouldn’t have got to the ball even if he hadn’t got his foot caught under the challenge. Vardy simply got there too late.

In his interview just after the game McCarthy said that he thought he was going to get the ball.

All very strange. The referee could have bought himself some time by asking for a replay or by consulting his assistant but had clear made up his mind and wasn’t going to change it. None of this is good for the game.

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Red said:

Also, I don't see why the game had to stop to allow Fofana food and drink? I get he was fasting, but that was his choice and Leicester's to let him play. He could have gone off the field for a few seconds without the rest of play being held up or waited until half time (only 10 minutes away).

I am in no way disrespecting his faith or beliefs but it just seems PC gone mad. What next, we have a break when muslin prayers are due at dusk, Good Friday/Easter Monday remembrance, Poppy Day, etc. etc. Might be amusing to have a bar mitzvah break for the "ritual event" and having the player return to play however 🙂 - again no offence meant to anyone

The game didn’t have to stop. It was by agreement with the referee and the two clubs.

[spyinthesky]

We have suffered 3 sendings off against Leicester.

Bertrand in the 9-0 hammering.

Vokins in the 2-1 win at their place and Vestegards yesterday,

Seems a bit unfair when Vardy escaped punishment for clobbering VVD at SMS and rolling around like he had been shot in yesterdays game.

[Convict Colony]

Leicester had 6 cameras on our warm up and we made out we were doing 3 at the back.

https://www.prostinternational.com/2021/05/01/smokescreen-warm-ups-sympathy-with-shoddy-var-and-putting-cheese-in-the-trap-southampton-have-got-a-plan-b/

Prost running the show so far for interesting Saints info

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, spyinthesky said:

We have suffered 3 sendings off against Leicester.

Bertrand in the 9-0 hammering.

Vokins in the 2-1 win at their place and Vestegards yesterday,

Seems a bit unfair when Vardy escaped punishment for clobbering VVD at SMS and rolling around like he had been shot in yesterdays game.

Valery got sent off in the away game.

I think Vardy is my most hated player in the league. The quicker someone crocks him the better.

[The Cat]

24 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Leicester had 6 cameras on our warm up and we made out we were doing 3 at the back.

https://www.prostinternational.com/2021/05/01/smokescreen-warm-ups-sympathy-with-shoddy-var-and-putting-cheese-in-the-trap-southampton-have-got-a-plan-b/

Prost running the show so far for interesting Saints info

Interesting article. I guess they have a good contact in the Saints camp after reading the section where they mention what Leicester staff were saying about the red card.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Interesting article. I guess they have a good contact in the Saints camp after reading the section where they mention what Leicester staff were saying about the red card.

Very interesting...the warm up was genius. I thought our shape looked like a back 3 initially before going to a 4. Nice. 

[Convict Colony]

this is the sort of insight The Athletic used to provide with Carl but now I am more interested in Prost as they are creating interesting and unique looks at our games

[Minsk]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Leicester had 6 cameras on our warm up and we made out we were doing 3 at the back.

https://www.prostinternational.com/2021/05/01/smokescreen-warm-ups-sympathy-with-shoddy-var-and-putting-cheese-in-the-trap-southampton-have-got-a-plan-b/

Prost running the show so far for interesting Saints info

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting article.

[waylander]

Interesting read. Does need a proof-reader though.

[JustinSFC]

3 hours ago, spyinthesky said:

We have suffered 3 sendings off against Leicester.

Bertrand in the 9-0 hammering.

Vokins in the 2-1 win at their place and Vestegards yesterday,

Seems a bit unfair when Vardy escaped punishment for clobbering VVD at SMS and rolling around like he had been shot in yesterdays game.

According to sky Sports lastnight this fixture has seen 7 red cards and they've all been our players.

We've had more red cards than any other team Leicester have faced. Apparently according to the in-game analysis lastnight.

[badgerx16]

With everybody, ( bar Karen Carney ), saying it was never a red, ( apparently including Leicester ), surely it will be rescinded.

[Whitey Grandad]

I’ve just had a good look at that incident again but this time with the view from the south east Chapel corner.

From the other view that Sky showed last night it looked as though Vestergaard had gone into Vardy’s ankle with his studs but from the other angle you can see that Vestergaard plays the ball and then Vardy arrives and deliberately plants his feet down where Vestergaard’s boots are in the intention of winning a foul. He trips over Vestergaard’s ankles and then makes two complete rolls whilst screaming his head off.

He really is a nasty little squirt.

[Toadhall Saint]

4 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Leicester had 6 cameras on our warm up and we made out we were doing 3 at the back.

https://www.prostinternational.com/2021/05/01/smokescreen-warm-ups-sympathy-with-shoddy-var-and-putting-cheese-in-the-trap-southampton-have-got-a-plan-b/

Prost running the show so far for interesting Saints info

 Set good. Of course RH has no say in such things 

[redkeith]

8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I’ve just had a good look at that incident again but this time with the view from the south east Chapel corner.

From the other view that Sky showed last night it looked as though Vestergaard had gone into Vardy’s ankle with his studs but from the other angle you can see that Vestergaard plays the ball and then Vardy arrives and deliberately plants his feet down where Vestergaard’s boots are in the intention of winning a foul. He trips over Vestergaard’s ankles and then makes two complete rolls whilst screaming his head off.

He really is a nasty little squirt.

They do like throwing themselves in front of things at Leicester. In the 2nd half their wing back tried to get in front of a Saints player in the box and stopped dead to get some contact. Luckily the ref didn't fall for that one. 

Tyler just said he was just trying to  shield the ball, which had already gone! .  I seem to remember they got 3 penalties in the one game at  Man City by doing the same thing. It is like the insurance con were someone pulls onto a roundabout and slams the brakes on.   

[West Stand]

Put simply, Vardy is a cheat!!

[Charlie Wayman]

On 30/04/2021 at 22:18, Billy the Kidd said:

Dunno, thought it was a point gained from an inept bunch of clueless and spineless officials.

He was being ironic.

[Charlie Wayman]

On 30/04/2021 at 22:34, Pamplemousse said:

The players have fight. I'm surprised but equally I'm proud.

A superb point. We'll need that same defensive energy and spirit at Liverpool; after that we can win every game in my opinion.

Those who doubt Ralph really show their lack of footballing intelligence. The players are with him; the directors are with him; the majority of fans are with him. I just hope the club back him in the transfer window.

Don't be daft. 

[cloggy saint]

1 hour ago, West Stand said:

Put simply, Vardy is a cheat!!

To put even more simply, pretty much every footballer is a 'cheat'.

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

To put even more simply, pretty much every footballer is a 'cheat'.

They train at it. My father used to go and watch the Spurs training at Cheshunt back in the 1960s. One of their trainers used to sit on a stool at the edge of the ‘D’ and shout at the forwards “Make him foul you!”

[tajjuk]

2 hours ago, redkeith said:

They do like throwing themselves in front of things at Leicester. In the 2nd half their wing back tried to get in front of a Saints player in the box and stopped dead to get some contact. Luckily the ref didn't fall for that one. 

Tyler just said he was just trying to  shield the ball, which had already gone! .  I seem to remember they got 3 penalties in the one game at  Man City by doing the same thing. It is like the insurance con were someone pulls onto a roundabout and slams the brakes on.   

It's part of the dark arts of football, it's hardly like we don't do it ourselves, even one of the 'purest' football teams in the world that play some beautiful football under Pepe, still purposely leg people up to prevent counters. 

JWP spent a whole evening winding Zaha up and eventually got him sent off. 

Kane is amazing at buying free kicks, he backs into defenders and then falls over. 

Just all part of the game really and been going on for years. 

But with VAR there is really no excuse for Refs not to get the right decision, and yet again they showed how flawed the system is because they seem determined not to overturn poor decisions and embarrass their mates, so what we have is VAR basically confirming bad decisions, instead of correcting blatant mistakes, as that decisions was last night. Pretty much universally its been said that wasn't a red card and doubtful you could even claim its a card, he got the ball, wasn't over the top, wasn't out of control and got there before the attacker did, clearly prodding the ball back to McCarthy making it very unlikely Vardy would have got near the ball. 

But we are currently living in a situation where Refs are giving red cards for players kicking the ball. Showing the problem is not VAR, its the Refs themselves making poor decision after poor decision, and they are then also in the VAR box backing up those poor decisions. 

It just seems at the moment that if a player gets hit and goes down rolling on the floor, the refs are looking to give the foul regardless of the context or the defender getting the ball.  That is their first instinct, I mean Son's red card against Silva is a great example, a horrible unfortunate injury yes, but Son literally got tripped up by another player and fell into Silva, but the red comes out almost automatically. That Balbuenna red, just completely shocking, the guy clears the ball, literally a clean kick and the opposition player runs into his follow through, red comes out straight away. 

I remember a pen Mane 'won' against Spurs, where the defender is kicking the ball and Mane comes from the blindside and just sticks his leg in the way, doesn't try to get the ball just puts his leg in the way and gets a pen, complete joke, but the refs have no real clue. 

It's similar to the stupid handballs they give, people blasting the ball at defenders from 3 yards with the arms to side, it's expecting defenders to basically have no arms and these red cards they seem to expect momentum and physics not to exist, its near impossible to kick a ball without a follow through and some momentum. 

IMO they need to do something about the Refs generally as many of them are poor, some need clear retiring (Dean) or demoting, and others need more training or instruction. 

BUT the biggest thing they need to do is take VAR away from the refs, it needs to go to an independent panel of probably a group of ex players. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, cloggy saint said:

To put even more simply, pretty much every footballer is a 'cheat'.

Exactly.

Look at Djneppo, he’s fucking embarrassing, not a game goes by without him rolling around like someone’s chopped his leg off. 
 

People don’t like Vardy, I wish we had a few that were disliked as much. 

[Tom & Gerry]

The thing that gets me that I can't see mentioned is that the sending off was for denying a goal scoring opportunity. When was there a goal scoring opportunity? The sequence of events was Vestergaard plays the ball back to McCarthy, his follow through catches Vardy's ankle and you can argue if that is even a foul., but the ball is gone (not long gone I grant you but Vardy is never getting to it), there never was a goal scoring opportunity. It has to be rescinded.    

[The Cat]

36 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Exactly.

Look at Djneppo, he’s fucking embarrassing, not a game goes by without him rolling around like someone’s chopped his leg off. 
 

People don’t like Vardy, I wish we had a few that were disliked as much. 

You don't have to be a nasty or annoying player to be effective though. Plenty of teams get stuck in and have a hard mentality without having a player that's an absolute cock.

 

[Yozzman]

58 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

It's part of the dark arts of football, it's hardly like we don't do it ourselves, even one of the 'purest' football teams in the world that play some beautiful football under Pepe, still purposely leg people up to prevent counters. 

JWP spent a whole evening winding Zaha up and eventually got him sent off. 

Kane is amazing at buying free kicks, he backs into defenders and then falls over. 

Just all part of the game really and been going on for years. 

But with VAR there is really no excuse for Refs not to get the right decision, and yet again they showed how flawed the system is because they seem determined not to overturn poor decisions and embarrass their mates, so what we have is VAR basically confirming bad decisions, instead of correcting blatant mistakes, as that decisions was last night. Pretty much universally its been said that wasn't a red card and doubtful you could even claim its a card, he got the ball, wasn't over the top, wasn't out of control and got there before the attacker did, clearly prodding the ball back to McCarthy making it very unlikely Vardy would have got near the ball. 

But we are currently living in a situation where Refs are giving red cards for players kicking the ball. Showing the problem is not VAR, its the Refs themselves making poor decision after poor decision, and they are then also in the VAR box backing up those poor decisions. 

It just seems at the moment that if a player gets hit and goes down rolling on the floor, the refs are looking to give the foul regardless of the context or the defender getting the ball.  That is their first instinct, I mean Son's red card against Silva is a great example, a horrible unfortunate injury yes, but Son literally got tripped up by another player and fell into Silva, but the red comes out almost automatically. That Balbuenna red, just completely shocking, the guy clears the ball, literally a clean kick and the opposition player runs into his follow through, red comes out straight away. 

I remember a pen Mane 'won' against Spurs, where the defender is kicking the ball and Mane comes from the blindside and just sticks his leg in the way, doesn't try to get the ball just puts his leg in the way and gets a pen, complete joke, but the refs have no real clue. 

It's similar to the stupid handballs they give, people blasting the ball at defenders from 3 yards with the arms to side, it's expecting defenders to basically have no arms and these red cards they seem to expect momentum and physics not to exist, its near impossible to kick a ball without a follow through and some momentum. 

IMO they need to do something about the Refs generally as many of them are poor, some need clear retiring (Dean) or demoting, and others need more training or instruction. 

BUT the biggest thing they need to do is take VAR away from the refs, it needs to go to an independent panel of probably a group of ex players. 

It is not often that I agree with you but on this you are spot on.

[Billy the Kidd]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

He was being ironic.

Not sure I know what that means.

Is it used for someone who likes taking creases out of fabrics?

[BERMUDASAINT]

57 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

It's part of the dark arts of football, it's hardly like we don't do it ourselves, even one of the 'purest' football teams in the world that play some beautiful football under Pepe, still purposely leg people up to prevent counters. 

JWP spent a whole evening winding Zaha up and eventually got him sent off. 

Kane is amazing at buying free kicks, he backs into defenders and then falls over. 

Just all part of the game really and been going on for years. 

But with VAR there is really no excuse for Refs not to get the right decision, and yet again they showed how flawed the system is because they seem determined not to overturn poor decisions and embarrass their mates, so what we have is VAR basically confirming bad decisions, instead of correcting blatant mistakes, as that decisions was last night. Pretty much universally its been said that wasn't a red card and doubtful you could even claim its a card, he got the ball, wasn't over the top, wasn't out of control and got there before the attacker did, clearly prodding the ball back to McCarthy making it very unlikely Vardy would have got near the ball. 

But we are currently living in a situation where Refs are giving red cards for players kicking the ball. Showing the problem is not VAR, its the Refs themselves making poor decision after poor decision, and they are then also in the VAR box backing up those poor decisions. 

It just seems at the moment that if a player gets hit and goes down rolling on the floor, the refs are looking to give the foul regardless of the context or the defender getting the ball.  That is their first instinct, I mean Son's red card against Silva is a great example, a horrible unfortunate injury yes, but Son literally got tripped up by another player and fell into Silva, but the red comes out almost automatically. That Balbuenna red, just completely shocking, the guy clears the ball, literally a clean kick and the opposition player runs into his follow through, red comes out straight away. 

I remember a pen Mane 'won' against Spurs, where the defender is kicking the ball and Mane comes from the blindside and just sticks his leg in the way, doesn't try to get the ball just puts his leg in the way and gets a pen, complete joke, but the refs have no real clue. 

It's similar to the stupid handballs they give, people blasting the ball at defenders from 3 yards with the arms to side, it's expecting defenders to basically have no arms and these red cards they seem to expect momentum and physics not to exist, its near impossible to kick a ball without a follow through and some momentum. 

IMO they need to do something about the Refs generally as many of them are poor, some need clear retiring (Dean) or demoting, and others need more training or instruction. 

BUT the biggest thing they need to do is take VAR away from the refs, it needs to go to an independent panel of probably a group of ex players. 

You are all missing the point, these refs are not poor decision makers, not innocent in the punishments they hand out. THE HAVE BEEN GROOMED TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL A GAME!!

 The FA won't promote them unless they manage the dark arts of controlling a game for whom them deem fit for the points. We have watched it all our lives. Regs have the ultimate control over a game and they have time and time again used it to determine the outcome of the game, dispite the teams on the field. 

We begged for fairness (smaller clubs) until they finally brought in technology to help . Goal line tech 👍great. Var was ok in the beginning,  over ruled refs and their poor calls( more like cheating calls) and made them look bad. So they have spent the last 2 year neutering var until it is now useless at correcting poor decision. The ref has his game back ( yes his! not our game), he has the control back, the ability for him and the FA to guide the clubs they Deam worthy of points. 

Now many have blamed our current situations on Les calling him everything but the antichrist. He and his gangsters now are in CONTROL of the game! And we have consistently suffered some of the most worst calls I have seen against Saints over the past few seasons. BLATANT CHEATING BY THE REF AND FA! 

ps. The FA has to be culpable because they never correct or discipline these very poor decisions, therefore they must support these decisions.