Derek Chauvin guilty of all charges

[scally]

If you can't be bothered to watch it all just watch from 17 to 27 minutes, this video changed my views on what's happening in America. The media deliberately report things in a way that creates racial tension. 

[Sheaf Saint]

15 minutes ago, scally said:

You may not like him but is he right?

No, of course he isn't. Just because he hasn't personally had any experience of systemic racism in the police, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

The evidence speaks for itself. Black people in the US are up to 6 times more likely to be killed by police than white people.

For this guy to deny there is a problem, based on nothing more than his own personal experience, is blinkered in the extreme. He's a hyper-partisan political commentator, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near mainstream BBC news. The fact they invited him on without checking on his background is highly worrying

[scally]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

No, of course he isn't. Just because he hasn't personally had any experience of systemic racism in the police, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

The evidence speaks for itself. Black people in the US are up to 6 times more likely to be killed by police than white people.

For this guy to deny there is a problem, based on nothing more than his own personal experience, is blinkered in the extreme. He's a hyper-partisan political commentator, and shouldn't be allowed anywhere near mainstream BBC news. The fact they invited him on without checking on his background is highly worrying

Watch the video above 

[Sheaf Saint]

18 minutes ago, scally said:

Watch the video above 

OK I've watched the section you recommended, and he is obviously an intelligent guy who makes some very valid points.

The bigger problem with the US police is undoubtedly the corruption. And he's right that, of course, it is not just black people who are the victims of this. The regularity of incidents of lethal force involving American police is very worrying, regardless of the ethnicity of the victim, so the bigger concern should be to improve training (particularly firearms training) and reduce the level of corruption which sees so many of these officers spared any criminal charges for their misconduct. 

But some of his claims are just plain wrong. He repeats the claim that there is no disparity between black and white victims, but statistical analyses show there clearly is (as per my previous link).

It's interesting what he says about videos of black people being abused and killed being more widely reported on. It's undoubtedly true that black killings are more widely publicised. But that doesn't contradict the statistical data.

I don't believe that any police forces deliberately set out to be racist. Of course they don't. But, sadly, racist attitudes are still quite prevalent in America (and here as well). You only have to read some of the more moronic comments on social media posts to recognise that. When you combine that with a glaring lack of training and vetting of police recruits, and a corrupt culture of "close ranks and look after our own", it's little wonder that there are more than a few bad eggs like Chauvin in the various American PDs who believe they are untouchable, and whose own racist tendencies make them more likely to target black people.

 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

OK I've watched the section you recommended, and he is obviously an intelligent guy who makes some very valid points.

The bigger problem with the US police is undoubtedly the corruption. And he's right that, of course, it is not just black people who are the victims of this. The regularity of incidents of lethal force involving American police is very worrying, regardless of the ethnicity of the victim, so the bigger concern should be to improve training (particularly firearms training) and reduce the level of corruption which sees so many of these officers spared any criminal charges for their misconduct. 

But some of his claims are just plain wrong. He repeats the claim that there is no disparity between black and white victims, but statistical analyses show there clearly is (as per my previous link).

It's interesting what he says about videos of black people being abused and killed being more widely reported on. It's undoubtedly true that black killings are more widely publicised. But that doesn't contradict the statistical data.

I don't believe that any police forces deliberately set out to be racist. Of course they don't. But, sadly, racist attitudes are still quite prevalent in America (and here as well). You only have to read some of the more moronic comments on social media posts to recognise that. When you combine that with a glaring lack of training and vetting of police recruits, and a corrupt culture of "close ranks and look after our own", it's little wonder that there are more than a few bad eggs like Chauvin in the various American PDs who believe they are untouchable, and whose own racist tendencies make them more likely to target black people.

 

amusing that a black, American former police officer who stated a few facts is dismissed as a lunatic trump supporter who doesn't know a thing about racism in america by a white key worker bloke in Sheffield 

Edited 22 April, 2021 by Turkish

[whelk]

59 minutes ago, Turkish said:

amusing that a black, American former police officer who stated a few facts is dismissed as a lunatic trump supporter who doesn't know a thing about racism in america by a white key worker bloke in Sheffield 

Almost as amusing as the dog whistle to you to dismiss any occurrences of racism

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Almost as amusing as the dog whistle to you to dismiss any occurrences of racism

I’ve never dismissed any occurrence of racism 

[whelk]

Just now, Turkish said:

I’ve never dismissed any occurrence of racism 

Genuine question, have you been to many parts of America? Mid south has some seriously entrenched racism from respectable,  reasonable, kind ‘normal’ professional people. Been a while admittedly but I was shocked at attitudes you would rarely experience here other than coming across some right wing nut.

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Genuine question, have you been to many parts of America? Mid south has some seriously entrenched racism from respectable,  reasonable, kind ‘normal’ professional people. Been a while admittedly but I was shocked at attitudes you would rarely experience here other than coming across some right wing nut.

Not sure what point you’re trying to Make. I’ve never denied racism exists. Already said that. I also said it’s highly amusing how a left wing white person from Sheffield feels they’re qualified  to tell a black American bloke who is a former copper they don’t know what they’re taking about and must clearly be a loony trump fanatic because they have an opinion different to theirs. Don’t you agree?

Edited 22 April, 2021 by Turkish

[scally]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

OK I've watched the section you recommended, and he is obviously an intelligent guy who makes some very valid points.

The bigger problem with the US police is undoubtedly the corruption. And he's right that, of course, it is not just black people who are the victims of this. The regularity of incidents of lethal force involving American police is very worrying, regardless of the ethnicity of the victim, so the bigger concern should be to improve training (particularly firearms training) and reduce the level of corruption which sees so many of these officers spared any criminal charges for their misconduct. 

But some of his claims are just plain wrong. He repeats the claim that there is no disparity between black and white victims, but statistical analyses show there clearly is (as per my previous link).

It's interesting what he says about videos of black people being abused and killed being more widely reported on. It's undoubtedly true that black killings are more widely publicised. But that doesn't contradict the statistical data.

I don't believe that any police forces deliberately set out to be racist. Of course they don't. But, sadly, racist attitudes are still quite prevalent in America (and here as well). You only have to read some of the more moronic comments on social media posts to recognise that. When you combine that with a glaring lack of training and vetting of police recruits, and a corrupt culture of "close ranks and look after our own", it's little wonder that there are more than a few bad eggs like Chauvin in the various American PDs who believe they are untouchable, and whose own racist tendencies make them more likely to target black people.

 

If you think Coleman is wrong on the data then check out the video below. About 200+ black Americans are killed by the police every year, most of those killings are justified. Thousands of black Americans are murdered annually and nobody including Black Lives Matter are interested in talking about it. We should all do everything we can to stop racism but we also need to start addressing the bigger issues that effect so many Black American's  

 

[whelk]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not sure what point you’re trying to Make. I’ve never denied racism exists. Already said that. I also said it’s highly amusing how a left wing white person from Sheffield feels they’re qualified  to tell a black American bloke who is a former copper they don’t know what they’re taking about and must clearly be a loony trump fanatic because they have an opinion different to theirs. Don’t you agree?

Point is there is racism over there like we can’t relate to and not a stretch that it extends into the police. I didn’t think Sheaf was dismissive either. 
 

also scally has form as a Qanon nut

Edited 22 April, 2021 by whelk

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Point is there is racism over there like we can’t relate to and not a stretch that it extends into the police. I didn’t think Sheaf was dismissive either. 
 

also scally has form as a Qanon nut

“What the actual fuck are the BBC doing inviting this loon to speak on the news? I've seen his Youtube channel before and he's basically just a rabid Trump supporter who has somehow made himself famous (and rich) by making videos claiming that America can't possibly have a problem with racism because he is black, he has never personally experienced racism, and he managed to become a cop”

No, not at all dismissive 🙄

[scally]

16 minutes ago, whelk said:

Point is there is racism over there like we can’t relate to and not a stretch that it extends into the police. I didn’t think Sheaf was dismissive either. 
 

also scally has form as a Qanon nut

Qanon nut? Unless you're going to argue against what I've said don't bring me into your spat

[Fan The Flames]

40 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Not sure what point you’re trying to Make. I’ve never denied racism exists. Already said that. I also said it’s highly amusing how a left wing white person from Sheffield feels they’re qualified  to tell a black American bloke who is a former copper they don’t know what they’re taking about and must clearly be a loony trump fanatic because they have an opinion different to theirs. Don’t you agree?

What about the American black voices that say racism exists over there, will you listen to them?

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

What about the American black voices that say racism exists over there, will you listen to them?

Of course. What’s your point?

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

No, of course he isn't. Just because he hasn't personally had any experience of systemic racism in the police, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 

 

I've never had any personal experience of aliens, does that mean they exist?  Am I a complete nutjob Trump supporter if I say they don't?

Isn't our entire belief system based on nothing more than our own personal experiences?

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I've never had any personal experience of aliens, does that mean they exist?  Am I a complete nutjob Trump supporter if I say they don't?

Isn't our entire belief system based on nothing more than our own personal experiences?

I guess it comes down to who do you think it going to be better informed to comment on racism in the police force in America 

a black American  guy who worked in it. Or a white English guy from Sheffield 

 

Edited 22 April, 2021 by Turkish

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, scally said:

If you can't be bothered to watch it all just watch from 17 to 27 minutes, this video changed my views on what's happening in America. The media deliberately report things in a way that creates racial tension. 

100% right. Just look at the way the media is reporting the police officer shooting a 16 year old black girl - failing to mention in almost all reports that she was trying to stab another girl with a fuck off great big knife in her hand, just after trying to stab another, whilst her father kicked another young girl in the head on the floor. 

Then the cop shoots the girl who is half a second away from stabbing another in the throat and they all stop, dumbstruck and start screaming "she's just a kid...she came at them with a knife and that's reason to shoot her!?". 

Yes it is. No chance for deescalation in that case. The video is there for everyone to see.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Of course. What’s your point?

I would have thought the point was obvious, here you are chastising a white bloke for not listening to a black lived experience. Yet your involvement in these matters on this site, suggests you don't listen to thousands of other black voices.

You claim on the back slapping 'things that are racist' thread in your hilarious woke character, that you poke tokenistic racist calls because real racism gets lost behind the noise.

Well here we are, the most horrible manifestation of a racist system, the death of a handcuffed compliant man whose last breath was squeezed out of him, wedged between the road and the combined weight of a bent cops knee and the blue wall. This is the real racism you were concerned may get lost, but you are not calling it out like you claimed you would, no you are just creating noise to drown in out.

Like the others on here who claim to be balanced, yet whose views are always from the same side of the line, your true position is revealed over time simply by your lack of balance.

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I would have thought the point was obvious, here you are chastising a white bloke for not listening to a black lived experience. Yet your involvement in these matters on this site, suggests you don't listen to thousands of other black voices.

You claim on the back slapping 'things that are racist' thread in your hilarious woke character, that you poke tokenistic racist calls because real racism gets lost behind the noise.

Well here we are, the most horrible manifestation of a racist system, the death of a handcuffed compliant man whose last breath was squeezed out of him, wedged between the road and the combined weight of a bent cops knee and the blue wall. This is the real racism you were concerned may get lost, but you are not calling it out like you claimed you would, no you are just creating noise to drown in out.

Like the others on here who claim to be balanced, yet whose views are always from the same side of the line, your true position is revealed over time simply by your lack of balance.

There is no evidence it was racially motivated. 

Edited 22 April, 2021 by Turkish

[buctootim]

3 hours ago, whelk said:

Point is there is racism over there like we can’t relate to and not a stretch that it extends into the police. I didn’t think Sheaf was dismissive either. 
 

Its a combination of four things imo.

1. Being a police officer in the US is viewed lower and paid lower than British police, they also tend to be less educated and trained 

2. Its very much a do as I say police force rather than a police service. Greenpeace for example do not use the civil disobedience tactics in the US that they use in many other countries because too many protestors get their heads broken.  

3. The prevalence of guns breeds a tendency to overreaction. I had a traffic cop unclip her gun when I went to take my driving licence out from the glovebox as she told me to. 

4. Racism    

Putting the four things together ends up in a lot dead people 

 

Edited 22 April, 2021 by buctootim

[buctootim]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

There is no evidence it was racially motivated. 

What were you hoping for? a " I did it because he was a nigger' neon sign?

Why do think the death rate for every age group is so different for black people compared to white - even when socio economic factors like income and education are the same?  

Edited 22 April, 2021 by buctootim

[Fan The Flames]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

There is no evidence it was racially motivated. 

More noise, predictable.

[Turkish]

24 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

More noise, predictable.

Got any evidence it was racially motivated then?

[Sheaf Saint]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I've never had any personal experience of aliens, does that mean they exist?  Am I a complete nutjob Trump supporter if I say they don't?

Isn't our entire belief system based on nothing more than our own personal experiences?

Fucking hell Weston. Are you really that dim or are you just trying to get a bite?

Of course it doesn't mean they exist, but it absolutely doesn't *prove* that they don't. 

This Officer Tatum guy only opposes BLM because Trump does. If you don't believe me then just watch some of the videos he released during the election campaign. The lengths he will go to to defend Trump and attack Biden is painful to watch.

His whole schtick is akin to someone only ever watching one Saints game and seeing them win, then spending the rest of their life claiming that Saints don't have a problem with conceding goals and losing games because they have never personally seen it. That's how dumb his logic is.

The anecdotal evidence of the personal experiences of one man - a man with blatant political bias - in a country with a population of over 300 million, with a bitter history of racial disharmony, where black people weren't even allowed to go to school or get on a bus as recently as around 60 years ago, is completely meaningless and adds nothing of any value to the debate.

[egg]

33 minutes ago, buctootim said:

What were you hoping for? a " I did it because he was a nigger' neon sign?

Why do think the death rate for every age group is so different for black people compared to white - even when socio economic factors like income and education are the same?  

That's poor by your standards. You're confusing a wider race issue with a racist incident. The former is indisputable, but that doesn't make the latter racially motivated. 

[buctootim]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

That's poor by your standards. You're confusing a wider race issue with a racist incident. The former is indisputable, but that doesn't make the latter racially motivated. 

I don't know definitively if there was racial motivation to the Floyd killing. How would you prove it without the neon sign?  I do know there was a history of 18 complaints against Chauvin and that he had previously shot people on three separate occasions. All of them black. 

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, egg said:

That's poor by your standards. You're confusing a wider race issue with a racist incident. The former is indisputable, but that doesn't make the latter racially motivated. 

That's the point, the individual act doesn't have to be racially motivated for it to still be part of and the result of a systemic racist system.

America has had slavery, segregation, Jim Crow laws, black code, the clan, lynching, Emmett Till, suppression of voters right, civil rights activist assassinations, education colour bar, unbalanced incarceration, poor health outcomes, socioeconomic inequalities, ghetto housing, lack of political representation, higher rate of deaths by cops etc etc

And people still can't think that the murder of a compliant pleading black man just maybe is part of the same thing. There isn't even the slightest little maybe in there from some people. They are adamant that despite America's awful history this has nothing to do with it. Because a black man says America is now alright, there has been a black American president, it has black rich people, hey the cops kill white people too etc etc.

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

That's the point, the individual act doesn't have to be racially motivated for it to still be part of and the result of a systemic racist system.

America has had slavery, segregation, Jim Crow laws, black code, the clan, lynching, Emmett Till, suppression of voters right, civil rights activist assassinations, education colour bar, unbalanced incarceration, poor health outcomes, socioeconomic inequalities, ghetto housing, lack of political representation, higher rate of deaths by cops etc etc

And people still can't think that the murder of a compliant pleading black man just maybe is part of the same thing. There isn't even the slightest little maybe in there from some people. They are adamant that despite America's awful history this has nothing to do with it. Because a black man says America is now alright, there has been a black American president, it has black rich people, hey the cops kill white people too etc etc.

so you’re basically saying any incident of a white person on a black person is a racist attack because America is systemically racist. What a load of bollocks. 

[egg]

6 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

That's the point, the individual act doesn't have to be racially motivated for it to still be part of and the result of a systemic racist system.

America has had slavery, segregation, Jim Crow laws, black code, the clan, lynching, Emmett Till, suppression of voters right, civil rights activist assassinations, education colour bar, unbalanced incarceration, poor health outcomes, socioeconomic inequalities, ghetto housing, lack of political representation, higher rate of deaths by cops etc etc

And people still can't think that the murder of a compliant pleading black man just maybe is part of the same thing. There isn't even the slightest little maybe in there from some people. They are adamant that despite America's awful history this has nothing to do with it. Because a black man says America is now alright, there has been a black American president, it has black rich people, hey the cops kill white people too etc etc.

I get all that but that does not prove that this is a racially motivated incident. Sure, its a possibility, but there's no evidence in this particular case. Don't get me wrong, Chauvin may be a clan loving racist, but it's wrong to say that there was racial motivation just because America has a huge racial problem. For what it is worth, I'd hazard a guess that race was involved, but the point of the discussion is that there is no evidence of that. 

[egg]

8 hours ago, buctootim said:

I don't know definitively if there was racial motivation to the Floyd killing. How would you prove it without the neon sign?  I do know there was a history of 18 complaints against Chauvin and that he had previously shot people on three separate occasions. All of them black. 

What you don't do is assume. That's not how this works. You look at the actual evidence in the particular case, ie words said, etc. A white person beating on or killing a black victim does not on its own make the incident racially motivated. The assumption that it must be is wrong. 

[Fan The Flames]

36 minutes ago, Turkish said:

so you’re basically saying any incident of a white person on a black person is a racist attack because America is systemically racist. What a load of bollocks. 

No I'm not.

This is what you do, hide in the cracks and leverage all the plausible deniability. 

I said with all the cultural history it's a shame that people like you can't accept that race maybe is a part of it.

The guy was found guilty of murdering another human being, we will never know whether race played a part in it or not. What's important is that race didn't deny the Floyd family justice.

Edited 23 April, 2021 by Fan The Flames

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, buctootim said:

I don't know definitively if there was racial motivation to the Floyd killing. How would you prove it without the neon sign?  I do know there was a history of 18 complaints against Chauvin and that he had previously shot people on three separate occasions. All of them black. 

I don't know the demographic make up of the area he is was policing, but my guess would be that it is predominantly black?  Wouldn't that make it statistically plausible for him to be dealing almost exclusively with black offenders?

The one thing we can say for certain is that it was police brutality.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

No I'm not.

This is what you do, hide in the cracks and leverage all the plausible deniability. 

I said with all the cultural history it's a shame that people like you can't accept that race maybe is a part of it.

The guy was found guilty of murdering another human being, we will never know whether race played a part in it or not. What's important is that race didn't deny the Floyd family justice.

Hiding in the cracks? What the fuck are you drivelling on about now?!!

The facts are it was labelled a racist murder when there is not a shred of evidence race had anything to do with it whatsoever. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change it. Maybe it’s the assumption that’s every time something goes wrong for a black person it’s all because of those evil white people who are systemically racist that is part of the problem? Anyway, I’m off back to hide in the cracks

[Fan The Flames]

26 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Hiding in the cracks? What the fuck are you drivelling on about now?!!

The facts are it was labelled a racist murder when there is not a shred of evidence race had anything to do with it whatsoever. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change it. Maybe it’s the assumption that’s every time something goes wrong for a black person it’s all because of those evil white people who are systemically racist that is part of the problem? Anyway, I’m off back to hide in the cracks

People are allowed to call things as they see them, but of course you don't like it when people don't agree with your world view. 

I maintain it's a shame that a white bloke living thousands of miles away feels he is so in touch with the situation that he can't for one minute think that it may be different from his world view.

Hiding in the cracks of the story, it's what you do, you hammer at one little inconsistency and use that to drive a wedge into it. I've seen you do it for years on here, then you will continually bring it up years later.

You are so obsessed with woke white people and perceived token wokeness that you can't admit that some events might be down to racism.

[whelk]

11 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

People are allowed to call things as they see them, but of course you don't like it when people don't agree with your world view. 

I maintain it's a shame that a white bloke living thousands of miles away feels he is so in touch with the situation that he can't for one minute think that it may be different from his world view.

Hiding in the cracks of the story, it's what you do, you hammer at one little inconsistency and use that to drive a wedge into it. I've seen you do it for years on here, then you will continually bring it up years later.

You are so obsessed with woke white people and perceived token wokeness that you can't admit that some events might be down to racism.

Spot on. I think of Turkish being a little like Karl Pilkington - actually does make some good points and interest posts but more about entertainment. And then wants to double down/die in a ditch defending a facile point

Edited 23 April, 2021 by whelk

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

People are allowed to call things as they see them, but of course you don't like it when people don't agree with your world view. 

I maintain it's a shame that a white bloke living thousands of miles away feels he is so in touch with the situation that he can't for one minute think that it may be different from his world view.

Hiding in the cracks of the story, it's what you do, you hammer at one little inconsistency and use that to drive a wedge into it. I've seen you do it for years on here, then you will continually bring it up years later.

You are so obsessed with woke white people and perceived token wokeness that you can't admit that some events might be down to racism.

hang on a minute, who said "hiding in the cracks", "a shame people like you cant accept" "you cant admit"?   I think you'll find all i've done is present a fact on a specific case and you've gone into a little rant about how it must be racist because America is. Something about not liking it when people dont agree with your view of the world perhaps?

[buctootim]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I don't know the demographic make up of the area he is was policing, but my guess would be that it is predominantly black?  Wouldn't that make it statistically plausible for him to be dealing almost exclusively with black offenders?

The one thing we can say for certain is that it was police brutality.

Why would you guess it was predominantly black when only 20% of the population of Minneapolis is black? That is essentially the point FTF was making. 

Edited 23 April, 2021 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

Do coppers treat Black people differently than whitey because they don’t like the colour of their skin and think they’re sun human. Or do they treat them differently because of previous experiences with that particular community?

You can’t tell me our plod go and question Pikeys in the same way they question middle aged white men. They’ll be more on their guard, more heavy handed and more likely to disbelieve their version of events.
 

 

Edited 23 April, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[buctootim]

29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Do coppers treat Black people differently than whitey because they don’t like the colour of their skin and think they’re sun human. Or do they treat them differently because of previous experiences with that particular community?

You can’t tell me our plod go and question Pikeys in the same way they question middle aged white men. They’ll be more on their guard, more heavy handed and more likely to disbelieve their version of events.
 

 

 

Of course. And police are probably more deferential to a black middle aged accountant in a pinstripe suit and old Etonian tie than a white 20 something with dreads and a nose ring. Everybody takes a first instinct judgement based on their experiences. It might explain it but doesn't excuse it. Prejudice is literally prejudging a situation based on what some other person who looked a bit like the guy in front of you did. That isnt even handed fair policing.   

And yep, some people do think non whites are inferior or sub human. Not many, even in the states but the trouble is that those people are often drawn to the military or police, so the numbers are disproportionately high.       

Edited 23 April, 2021 by buctootim

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, buctootim said:

Why would you guess it was predominantly black when only 20% of the population of Minneapolis is black? That is essentially the point FTF was making. 

Likewise in Bristol, I would guess about 20% of the population are black. However, a policeman who predominantly polices St Paul's is likely to receive most of their complaints from black people.  That, in itself, doesn't make them racist. If you spend all day policing areas populated by a certain demographic, you are likely to receive complaints from that demographic.

[Fan The Flames]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

hang on a minute, who said "hiding in the cracks", "a shame people like you cant accept" "you cant admit"?   I think you'll find all i've done is present a fact on a specific case and you've gone into a little rant about how it must be racist because America is. Something about not liking it when people dont agree with your view of the world perhaps?

What is the explicit evidence of racist intention that you would want to see, because I think nowadays we have moved beyond that sort of behaviour, things are more insidious.

I haven't ranted at all, all I've said it's sad that some people are just not prepared to entertain the fact there might be a racist element. We will never know about Chauvin and this individual case, but we do know that there are issues with race and policing in America.

Anyway I'm going over the same ground now.

[Turkish]

10 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

What is the explicit evidence of racist intention that you would want to see, because I think nowadays we have moved beyond that sort of behaviour, things are more insidious.

I haven't ranted at all, all I've said it's sad that some people are just not prepared to entertain the fact there might be a racist element. We will never know about Chauvin and this individual case, but we do know that there are issues with race and policing in America.

Anyway I'm going over the same ground now.

Any evidence whatsoever would be nice. when you say "we've moved beyond that sort of behaviour" Do you mean people can accuse anyone of racism for anything without any proof? That seems to be what's happened here. The only evidence of racial motive seems to be that the victim was black. 

Edited 23 April, 2021 by Turkish

[benjii]

21 hours ago, buctootim said:

Its a combination of four things imo.

1. Being a police officer in the US is viewed lower and paid lower than British police, they also tend to be less educated and trained 

Fuck! That's hard to get one's head around.

[buctootim]

12 hours ago, benjii said:

Fuck! That's hard to get one's head around.

Is that you Chauvin?

[scally]

The media just want to stoke up racial hatred not report what actually happens in America

 

[buctootim]

4 minutes ago, scally said:

The media just want to stoke up racial hatred not report what actually happens in America

 

He’s weird. Whatever he thinks I’m on the opposite side 😃

[scally]

2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

He’s weird. Whatever he thinks I’m on the opposite side 😃

You live your life by disagreeing with people just because you don't  like them even when they're right 🙄

[The Cat]

17 hours ago, benjii said:

Fuck! That's hard to get one's head around.

All new officers in the UK now have to do a degree while training or have gained one prior to being recruited. Whether that makes for a better police force or not is open to debate and won't be known for a good few years. 

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, The Cat said:

All new officers in the UK now have to do a degree while training or have gained one prior to being recruited. Whether that makes for a better police force or not is open to debate and won't be known for a good few years. 

Theyll be good at filling in the paper work and doing the graphs to present their arrest figures so a strong upside