European League

[alehouseboys]

I’ve got a soft spot for Rangers but as far as I’m concerned the Old Firm can fuck off.

Can’t see why if so many are against a Euro Super League that would cripple lower/grassroots football in England, that it would suddenly be OK for Rangers and Celtic to jump ship and kill grassroots north of the border.

Anyway, it would just become a bitter Jock/Irish/Anti-English caper (and all the carnage that would go with it) each week if it did happen.

[JustinSFC]

Tottenham just offered their stadium as a CL venue after a few clubs lost the opportunity after this ESL shitstorm.

As if UEFA would give it to spurs after all this lmao.

[Baird of the land]

Moyes talking nonsense about making a premier league 1 and 2 to pander to the little darlings. Changed my mind want west ham’s season to collapse.

[S-Clarke]

  On 24/04/2021 at 06:32, Baird of the land said:

Moyes talking nonsense about making a premier league 1 and 2 to pander to the little darlings. Changed my mind want west ham’s season to collapse.

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Yep, I saw that. Absolute load of waffle. Why is everyone intent on re-engineering the game? ''Let Celtic and Rangers in''. What happens to the Championship and his former club such as PNE?

Absolute nonsense and would again create another them and us. Let's be honest, they wouldn't be guaranteed 'PL1' themselves.

The approach to the review should be simple - a review of the ownership model at all clubs, and more governance of that waffle of a Fit and Proper persons test - it shouldn't be as easy as tim and bob to take over a PL club without clear intentions. Granted, that will probably harm us in terms of an immediate takeover, but I'd rather than than be saddled with more non-entities. I keep going back to what happened with Wigan - those guys passed the fit and proper test, then stuck the club in admin just weeks later, which plunged Wigan into L1 and now L1 strugglers. Shambles.

Edited 24 April, 2021 by S-Clarke

[CB Fry]

  On 24/04/2021 at 08:43, S-Clarke said:

Yep, I saw that. Absolute load of waffle. Why is everyone intent on re-engineering the game? ''Let Celtic and Rangers in''. What happens to the Championship and his former club such as PNE?

Absolute nonsense and would again create another them and us. Let's be honest, they wouldn't be guaranteed 'PL1' themselves.

The approach to the review should be simple - a review of the ownership model at all clubs, and more governance of that waffle of a Fit and Proper persons test - it shouldn't be as easy as tim and bob to take over a PL club without clear intentions. Granted, that will probably harm us in terms of an immediate takeover, but I'd rather than than be saddled with more non-entities. I keep going back to what happened with Wigan - those guys passed the fit and proper test, then stuck the club in admin just weeks later, which plunged Wigan into L1 and now L1 strugglers. Shambles.

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Exactly- there never has been any PL2, its just nonsense.

West Ham v Leicester is not PL2, its a Championship tie, as is Saints, Palace, etc etc.

PL1 would just be a mechanism to cut the non big six adrift.

PL1 would be richest clubs plus a revolving door of fodder like us, West Ham, Leicester etc.

PL2 would be a glorified Championship, with a TV deal nowhere near PL1. Just the Saturday 5pm, Sunday 2pm and Monday Night Football 8pm arse end games.

Very odd for Moyes to suggest it because WHU ain't going to be top five forever mate.

[CB Fry]

Also Celtic and Rangers would do very well out of it - big "brands" with international appeal (especially Celtic) and could easily elbow Arsenal out of the way, let alone little West Ham.

Mad from Moyes. Mad.

[badgerx16]

Quote from Perez at Real;

"What we have done is taken a few weeks to reflect in light of the fury of certain people who don't want to lose their privileges and have manipulated the project."

Surely the ESL was all about maintaining and extending privilege ?

[St_Tel49]

  On 22/04/2021 at 12:15, Turkish said:

now this rears it's head again

British Super League secretly planned with Rangers and Celtic joining Premier League giants Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal (thesun.co.uk)

 

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If Sturgeon has her way it couldn't happen anyway. Scotland would be an independent country so inviting Rangers and Celtic join the English clubs would be the equivalent of inviting PSG or Real Madrid to join .... wouldn't it?

[benjii]

The absolute nerve of people to complain about the ESL then try to destroy Scottish football the next week.

[Turkish]

  On 24/04/2021 at 18:07, benjii said:

The absolute nerve of people to complain about the ESL then try to destroy Scottish football the next week.

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Hilarious isn’t it. Utter hypocrisy 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 24/04/2021 at 15:08, badgerx16 said:

Quote from Perez at Real;

"What we have done is taken a few weeks to reflect in light of the fury of certain people who don't want to lose their privileges and have manipulated the project."

Surely the ESL was all about maintaining and extending privilege ?

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Apparently the famous 12 have signed binding contracts - let's hope they have financial penalties attached to them so they end up losing money from their attempted cash grab!

  Quote

"I don't need to explain what a binding contract is, but effectively the clubs cannot leave," Perez told newspaper AS.

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[Whitey Grandad]

  On 25/04/2021 at 06:37, Weston Super Saint said:

Apparently the famous 12 have signed binding contracts - let's hope they have financial penalties attached to them so they end up losing money from their attempted cash grab!

 

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Binding contracts with whom? I admit that I haven’t been interested in all the details of this fiasco but who owns this ESL? If they had any sense it would be the clubs themselves. But if they had any sense they wouldn’t have got into this situation.

[S-Clarke]

  On 25/04/2021 at 09:12, Whitey Grandad said:

Binding contracts with whom? I admit that I haven’t been interested in all the details of this fiasco but who owns this ESL? If they had any sense it would be the clubs themselves. But if they had any sense they wouldn’t have got into this situation.

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It's all very confusing really, but apparently the 'ESL' entity was owned equally by each club. The ESL is still a 'thing' whilst the Spanish and Italian clubs are still part of it, so I'm guessing the penalties the British clubs are required to pay is just another way for Madird/Barca to get some money to help them out of their predicament? 

The biggest cheerleader is the Real Madrid chairman, so it all stinks a bit.

[Pedantic Pete]

  On 25/04/2021 at 09:16, S-Clarke said:

It's all very confusing really, but apparently the 'ESL' entity was owned equally by each club. The ESL is still a 'thing' whilst the Spanish and Italian clubs are still part of it, so I'm guessing the penalties the British clubs are required to pay is just another way for Madird/Barca to get some money to help them out of their predicament? 

The biggest cheerleader is the Real Madrid chairman, so it all stinks a bit.

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Maybe we will see a fixture list soon? Perhaps Madrid need to get used to the old Sunday morning feeling of turning up for a game and your opponents haven't showed up? 

 

 

[JRM]

  On 25/04/2021 at 09:16, S-Clarke said:

It's all very confusing really, but apparently the 'ESL' entity was owned equally by each club. The ESL is still a 'thing' whilst the Spanish and Italian clubs are still part of it, so I'm guessing the penalties the British clubs are required to pay is just another way for Madird/Barca to get some money to help them out of their predicament? 

The biggest cheerleader is the Real Madrid chairman, so it all stinks a bit.

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Very clearly this isn't the end of this, watching match of the day etc you'd think it's all done and dusted, ESL is no more, would be very naive to think that, they will be plotting another plan, perhaps to present to Perez to amend the contracts they have committed to. 

I'd love to see the 6 start next season on-20 points. Would actually make the Premier league interesting for once. 

[S-Clarke]

  On 25/04/2021 at 10:53, JRM said:

Very clearly this isn't the end of this, watching match of the day etc you'd think it's all done and dusted, ESL is no more, would be very naive to think that, they will be plotting another plan, perhaps to present to Perez to amend the contracts they have committed to. 

I'd love to see the 6 start next season on-20 points. Would actually make the Premier league interesting for once. 

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Definitely not the end, these big clubs are now in situations where they need to cut their cloths, some of them have never been there. You know, like 90% of the rest of the football world. But the big clubs don't feel they should have to do this, they have a very entitled attitude so they still want to be able to sign Mbappe, Halland and are invested in this 'galactico' type of instant success you often see.

They will keep peddling and keep pushing this, so we need to tighten up our own rules so it's not as easy for clubs to sign up to things like this.

Edited 25 April, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 25/04/2021 at 09:12, Whitey Grandad said:

Binding contracts with whom? I admit that I haven’t been interested in all the details of this fiasco but who owns this ESL? If they had any sense it would be the clubs themselves. But if they had any sense they wouldn’t have got into this situation.

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Presumably JP Morgan???

  Quote

The Real president added it was "not true" American investment bank JP Morgan - who had provided a 3.5bn euro (£2.8bn) grant to the founding members - had abandoned the ESL.

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[Whitey Grandad]

  On 25/04/2021 at 11:11, Weston Super Saint said:

Presumably JP Morgan???

 

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Yes, I would suppose you would expect the suppliers of fund to have a ct in the action.

It’s all a bit like those Mafia films with all the Capi di Capi sitting around the boardroom table.

[East Kent Saint]

  On 25/04/2021 at 11:11, Weston Super Saint said:

Presumably JP Morgan???

 

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I think that in the contract there was a financial penalty clause if a club backed out but Perez seems to live in a world of his own due to Real being € billion in debt , which is what this is all about .

[miserableoldgit]

[The Cat]

Excellent summary on the financial aspects of the proposals by Swiss Ramble. It's a long read but very interesting.

 

 

 

[alehouseboys]

  On 26/04/2021 at 06:29, The Cat said:

Excellent summary on the financial aspects of the proposals by Swiss Ramble. It's a long read but very interesting.

 

 

 

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"You don’t have to look too far to see the seriousness of the financial predicament with pre-tax losses of the 12 ESL clubs adding up to a worrying £667m, even before #LFC announce their results. Three of them lost more than £100m: #Milan £169m, #MCFC £125m and #FCBarcelona £112m"

Just sell a couple of players, live within your means for a couple of years and problem solved.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/04/2021 at 06:46, alehouseboys said:

"You don’t have to look too far to see the seriousness of the financial predicament with pre-tax losses of the 12 ESL clubs adding up to a worrying £667m, even before #LFC announce their results. Three of them lost more than £100m: #Milan £169m, #MCFC £125m and #FCBarcelona £112m"

Just sell a couple of players, live within your means for a couple of years and problem solved.

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That doesn’t worry me. To be honest I’m rather pleased about it

[Mystic Force]

If I remember correctly Leeds fall was created by a need to get Champions League every year for revenue purposes and had to spend accordingly to get there, but when this did not work out it blew up. But no one really cared, now we have 12 clubs who have put themselves in this position and tried to act as a cartel, but luckily they seem to have failed. I think what they need to do is just work harder, a few extra hours here and there, maybe stand at the side of the road asking for handouts. Or maybe dont spend so much freaking money you stupid idiots.

[OldNick]

I notice that Perez has said that games should be reduced to get more younger supporters interested.

At first I thought this was madness but when I think about it, so many games are turgid for long periods and so 2 halves of 30-35minutes may not be a bad thing. The players would have more energy and perhaps the games may be more enthralling.

I know the traditionalists would rail against this but perhaps the young may find this more exciting, the 20-20 cricket was frowned upon but it inspired younger people, so why not football

 

[skintsaint]

  On 26/04/2021 at 14:33, OldNick said:

I know the traditionalists would rail against this but perhaps the young may find this more exciting, the 20-20 cricket was frowned upon but it inspired younger people, so why not football

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dunno about you I like seeing the last minute equalisers against a tiring defence like we saw in the Pool/Geordie game the other day.

[JRM]

  On 26/04/2021 at 14:33, OldNick said:

I notice that Perez has said that games should be reduced to get more younger supporters interested.

At first I thought this was madness but when I think about it, so many games are turgid for long periods and so 2 halves of 30-35minutes may not be a bad thing. The players would have more energy and perhaps the games may be more enthralling.

I know the traditionalists would rail against this but perhaps the young may find this more exciting, the 20-20 cricket was frowned upon but it inspired younger people, so why not football

 

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Might as well go the whole way and Double the size of the goals, football is boring without goals to cheer, we need more goals! 

I enjoy watching cricket,  particularly a good test match, can't stand the dumbing down, we need more runs! And we need them quicker! No appreciation of a tactical battle, Let's make a new competition  called The Hundred and patronise young people into thinking it's fashionable, fucking loud music after boundaries and fake fireworks as players come out to bat. They've even made up new teams with stupid names to complete the cliche. 

 

[Minsk]

  On 26/04/2021 at 14:33, OldNick said:

I notice that Perez has said that games should be reduced to get more younger supporters interested.

At first I thought this was madness but when I think about it, so many games are turgid for long periods and so 2 halves of 30-35minutes may not be a bad thing. The players would have more energy and perhaps the games may be more enthralling.

I know the traditionalists would rail against this but perhaps the young may find this more exciting, the 20-20 cricket was frowned upon but it inspired younger people, so why not football

 

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I've played in matches of 3 x 30 minutes when in the Caribbean and Central America and, on one occasion, 4 quarters (2 x 25 min and 2 x 20 min) in the middle of a jungle in Belize (at an army base); each with a 10 min break in between sessions. The reasons for doing so were obviously heat and humidity.

The 3 x 30 minute, with 2 x 15 minute breaks would give more beer time - therefore, potentially, more revenue. But I wouldn't like to see the duration of matches reduced from 90 minutes. As it is, with time wasting, time for free/goal/corner kicks to be taken, players rolling around as if they've been shot just so the opposition kick the ball out of play instead of going on a quick breakaway (see Reguilon during yesterday's cup final), etc, most matches only have about an hours actual ball in play time as it is.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/04/2021 at 15:10, Minsk said:

I've played in matches of 3 x 30 minutes when in the Caribbean and Central America and, on one occasion, 4 quarters (2 x 25 min and 2 x 20 min) in the middle of a jungle in Belize (at an army base); each with a 10 min break in between sessions. The reasons for doing so were obviously heat and humidity.

The 3 x 30 minute, with 2 x 15 minute breaks would give more beer time - therefore, potentially, more revenue. But I wouldn't like to see the duration of matches reduced from 90 minutes. As it is, with time wasting, time for free/goal/corner kicks to be taken, players rolling around as if they've been shot just so the opposition kick the ball out of play instead of going on a quick breakaway (see Reguilon during yesterday's cup final), etc, most matches only have about an hours actual ball in play time as it is.

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More first time passes! That should speed the game up

[Mystic Force]

If they took cues from the American sport they are attempting to emulate they would make 60 minuets of actual playing time and make it go on for 3.5hrs but broken down into convenient 15 second chunks so you can have more adverts in-between. I have never sat through a game and thought it was too long if it was good. 

[OldNick]

  On 26/04/2021 at 14:46, skintsaint said:

dunno about you I like seeing the last minute equalisers against a tiring defence like we saw in the Pool/Geordie game the other day.

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they are usually against us lol

[OldNick]

  On 26/04/2021 at 15:08, JRM said:

Might as well go the whole way and Double the size of the goals, football is boring without goals to cheer, we need more goals! 

I enjoy watching cricket,  particularly a good test match, can't stand the dumbing down, we need more runs! And we need them quicker! No appreciation of a tactical battle, Let's make a new competition  called The Hundred and patronise young people into thinking it's fashionable, fucking loud music after boundaries and fake fireworks as players come out to bat. They've even made up new teams with stupid names to complete the cliche. 

 

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I like a good test match , but the county game is dull with few spectators. It is the 20-20 that has generated plenty of revenue and crowds.

You have to get to the stage where the County game is really finished as a spectator sport. Who can afford the time to sit at a ground for 3-4 days?

Anyway, I expect it is me and tiring of the PL circus as well as the playing the ball across the back line and not much goal mouth action. I watch the Big Match replayed of the 1970's and whilst the quality is lower the the technical stuff we see now, it was a lot of blood and thunder on pitches that our players wouldn't bring themselves to go play on

 

[OldNick]

  On 26/04/2021 at 15:10, Minsk said:

I've played in matches of 3 x 30 minutes when in the Caribbean and Central America and, on one occasion, 4 quarters (2 x 25 min and 2 x 20 min) in the middle of a jungle in Belize (at an army base); each with a 10 min break in between sessions. The reasons for doing so were obviously heat and humidity.

The 3 x 30 minute, with 2 x 15 minute breaks would give more beer time - therefore, potentially, more revenue. But I wouldn't like to see the duration of matches reduced from 90 minutes. As it is, with time wasting, time for free/goal/corner kicks to be taken, players rolling around as if they've been shot just so the opposition kick the ball out of play instead of going on a quick breakaway (see Reguilon during yesterday's cup final), etc, most matches only have about an hours actual ball in play time as it is.

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I get the time lost to balls out of play, but am I the only one who thinks most games are dull? We certainly had a fair share recently.

[badgerx16]

The Italin FA have introduced a new rule that bans clubs from Serie A if they join a non UEFA sanctioned competition.

[The Cat]

  On 26/04/2021 at 15:54, OldNick said:

I like a good test match , but the county game is dull with few spectators. It is the 20-20 that has generated plenty of revenue and crowds.

You have to get to the stage where the County game is really finished as a spectator sport. Who can afford the time to sit at a ground for 3-4 days?

Anyway, I expect it is me and tiring of the PL circus as well as the playing the ball across the back line and not much goal mouth action. I watch the Big Match replayed of the 1970's and whilst the quality is lower the the technical stuff we see now, it was a lot of blood and thunder on pitches that our players wouldn't bring themselves to go play on

 

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There's been some amazing county games so far this season.

Those games have never really had big crowds, partly because they are played during the week. Also for Hampshire factor in they now play in much larger stadium than Northland's Road where a few hundred in the crowd made it look a lot less sparse than a few hundred in the Rose Bowl.

Going back to the point about shortened games, I thought Perez was making a point that people could take out a subscription to watch the last 20 minutes of a game rather than the full one because younger people have shorter attention spans. 

[Useful Idiot]

  On 26/04/2021 at 14:33, OldNick said:

I notice that Perez has said that games should be reduced to get more younger supporters interested.

At first I thought this was madness but when I think about it, so many games are turgid for long periods and so 2 halves of 30-35minutes may not be a bad thing. The players would have more energy and perhaps the games may be more enthralling.

I know the traditionalists would rail against this but perhaps the young may find this more exciting, the 20-20 cricket was frowned upon but it inspired younger people, so why not football

 

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At first I thought this was a stupid idea, but then it occurred to me that if it was just a 40 minute match then perhaps our players wouldn't be so knackered in the second half and we could actually win a game now and again!

Therefore, for as long as Ralph is in charge at Saints I'm sold.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 26/04/2021 at 19:12, Useful Idiot said:

At first I thought this was a stupid idea, but then it occurred to me that if it was just a 40 minute match then perhaps our players wouldn't be so knackered in the second half and we could actually win a game now and again!

Therefore, for as long as Ralph is in charge at Saints I'm sold.

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We’d be knackered after 20 minutes.

[skintsaint]

  On 26/04/2021 at 15:56, OldNick said:

but am I the only one who thinks most games are dull? We certainly had a fair share recently.

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that happens when you are losing all the time. Don't remember many dull games in our back to back promotion push.

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 24/04/2021 at 18:07, benjii said:

The absolute nerve of people to complain about the ESL then try to destroy Scottish football the next week.

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The English Football League contains several Welsh teams so it's not the English Football League at all; nor has the inclusion of Welsh clubs "destroyed" Welsh football at grass roots level. I am all for the inclusion of Scottish Clubs in the League structure if they qualify on merit and I am not talking about Celtic & Rangers exclusively. If anything it might enhance the prestige and recognition of Scottish football at all levels.

As for Ms Sturgeon's ambition of an independent Scotland, people should not rush to judgement that this will be a slam dunk. 

[badgerx16]

  On 27/04/2021 at 07:59, Charlie Wayman said:

The English Football League contains several Welsh teams so it's not the English Football League at all; nor has the inclusion of Welsh clubs "destroyed" Welsh football at grass roots level. I am all for the inclusion of Scottish Clubs in the League structure if they qualify on merit and I am not talking about Celtic & Rangers exclusively. If anything it might enhance the prestige and recognition of Scottish football at all levels.

 

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Perhaps before allowing the 2 Glasgow "giants" in we should bring Berwick Rangers home to English football.

Edited 27 April, 2021 by badgerx16

[The Cat]

 

 

[Midfield_General]

  On 27/04/2021 at 07:59, Charlie Wayman said:

The English Football League contains several Welsh teams so it's not the English Football League at all; nor has the inclusion of Welsh clubs "destroyed" Welsh football at grass roots level. I am all for the inclusion of Scottish Clubs in the League structure if they qualify on merit and I am not talking about Celtic & Rangers exclusively. If anything it might enhance the prestige and recognition of Scottish football at all levels.

As for Ms Sturgeon's ambition of an independent Scotland, people should not rush to judgement that this will be a slam dunk. 

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Yep, the League of Wales is a real powerhouse

The big boys will all be looking to avoid Connor's Quay Nomads in next year's CL 

[Jimmy_D]

  On 27/04/2021 at 07:59, Charlie Wayman said:

The English Football League contains several Welsh teams so it's not the English Football League at all; nor has the inclusion of Welsh clubs "destroyed" Welsh football at grass roots level. I am all for the inclusion of Scottish Clubs in the League structure if they qualify on merit and I am not talking about Celtic & Rangers exclusively. If anything it might enhance the prestige and recognition of Scottish football at all levels.

As for Ms Sturgeon's ambition of an independent Scotland, people should not rush to judgement that this will be a slam dunk. 

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Welsh teams are in the English leagues because the Welsh league didn't exist when they were created. If it had existed they wouldn't have been allowed to join.

As the biggest potential Welsh fanbases are covered by the clubs in the English leagues, it's probably had quite a significant impact on the size of the domestic Welsh league.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 27/04/2021 at 12:54, Jimmy_D said:

Welsh teams are in the English leagues because the Welsh league didn't exist when they were created. If it had existed they wouldn't have been allowed to join.

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- Welsh football league formed 1904

- Merthyr formed 1909

- Swansea City formed 1912

- Newport County formed 1912

Edited 27 April, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[OldNick]

  On 27/04/2021 at 07:30, skintsaint said:

that happens when you are losing all the time. Don't remember many dull games in our back to back promotion push.

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Sorry, I didnt mean our games I meant generally

[Pedantic Pete]

  On 26/04/2021 at 14:33, OldNick said:

I notice that Perez has said that games should be reduced to get more younger supporters interested.

At first I thought this was madness but when I think about it, so many games are turgid for long periods and so 2 halves of 30-35minutes may not be a bad thing. The players would have more energy and perhaps the games may be more enthralling.

I know the traditionalists would rail against this but perhaps the young may find this more exciting, the 20-20 cricket was frowned upon but it inspired younger people, so why not football

 

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it feels like films are getting longer rather than shorter in recent years, there appear to be far more 3 hour plus films than I remember previously, and yet they seem to grab the younger audience still? Perhaps it isn't about length, its about the content?

[Mystic Force]

My wife can binge watch shows for hours, maybe the problem is the game is too short to compete with a Netflix release?

[East Kent Saint]

Top super league game on tonight , now we can see what we be missing.

[JRM]

  On 27/04/2021 at 19:15, East Kent Saint said:

Top super league game on tonight , now we can see what we be missing.

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It will be a decent game, but that's because it's a knockout cup match rather than a league fixture where there's no relegation. 

[badgerx16]

  On 27/04/2021 at 12:54, Jimmy_D said:

Welsh teams are in the English leagues because the Welsh league didn't exist when they were created. If it had existed they wouldn't have been allowed to join.

As the biggest potential Welsh fanbases are covered by the clubs in the English leagues, it's probably had quite a significant impact on the size of the domestic Welsh league.

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  On 27/04/2021 at 13:56, Matthew Le God said:

- Welsh football league formed 1904

- Merthyr formed 1909

- Swansea City formed 1912

- Newport County formed 1912

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Does MLG have some little software trigger embedded in the forum that sends him an automatic alert ?