Southampton Airport

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Have the people planning this expansion explicitly said that the objective is not a net increase in absolute flight capacity but an evening out of the flights across the nation so there are less in London and more in Southampton?

If they are it sounds like either a terrible business plan or a complete lie.

Low cost airlines like Ryanair and Easyjet buy planes in large bulk; they get the biggest discount possible that way. Sometimes the number they order is into triple figures and will cover their fleet development for a decade. They don’t just say, "hey here’s a new airport, let’s buy ten more planes," they deploy them seasonally where it’s most profitable. Ryanair are notorious for this; they will take 5 planes out of Stansted’s summer schedule and stick them in Poznań and Tenerife, just like that.

 

Aviation expands whatever happens. As the economy grows and more people have more wealth, they will take more flights; either for business, family or leisure. If it’s not here, they’ll just be packing even more into Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. The difference is those flights often have to hold for anything up to half an hour, just flying round and round in circles, burning jet fuel over southern England.

[Weston Super Saint]

Meanwhile, in France...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56716708

Quote

French lawmakers have moved to ban short-haul internal flights where train alternatives exist, in a bid to reduce carbon emissions.

Over the weekend, lawmakers voted in favour of a bill to end routes where the same journey could be made by train in under two-and-a-half hours.

Two and a half hours by train, that's what, London to Brighton on our railways 

[buctootim]

34 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

No, you’ve missed the point. In the grand scheme of things, small expansion at a regional airport isn’t going to make any significant impact compared to the worldwide aviation sector. Aviation accounts for 1.9% of CO2 emissions globally. That’s all planes globally, added together; do you think blocking the runway expansion at SOU is going to have any noticeable impact on worldwide emissions? In the time flights have been grounded, China has probably built another 1,000 factories pumping out billions of CO2 as we speak.

 

I’m all for saving the planet; the push for electric cars by 2030, all coal power stations to be closed by 2025, wind turbines, more efficient aircraft etc. But we can’t just sit here saying, "that releases some carbon, ban it," if there’re no credible alternatives.

I amazed people still attempt this line. No point in insulating houses / fuel efficiency, renewables - look at how much carbon countries like Indonesia pump out. Meanwhile in Indonesia 'why should we make reductions when the UK emits four times per capita what we do?'

Yes China pumps out a lot of carbon - because they now make the goods we used to make and still consume. Britain has largely done well on carbon specifically because we lost energy intensive industries like steel and aluminium smelting, mining etc coal  If you look at carbon based on where those goods end up you get a very different picture. We are the consumers. The stuff gets made and shipped because we buy it 

If there was a carbon tax based on the amount of carbon used to produce and transport a product and payable by the consumer you would still have the same range of goods but a totally different means of production and demand   

      

Edited 12 April, 2021 by buctootim

[whelk]

I am happy to save the planet but sod this non flying lark. If it is going to happen I want it to be near me. Happy to eat the odd plant burger to atone for my environmental sins

 

Edited 12 April, 2021 by whelk

[aintforever]

39 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Low cost airlines like Ryanair and Easyjet buy planes in large bulk; they get the biggest discount possible that way. Sometimes the number they order is into triple figures and will cover their fleet development for a decade. They don’t just say, "hey here’s a new airport, let’s buy ten more planes," they deploy them seasonally where it’s most profitable. Ryanair are notorious for this; they will take 5 planes out of Stansted’s summer schedule and stick them in Poznań and Tenerife, just like that.

 

Aviation expands whatever happens. As the economy grows and more people have more wealth, they will take more flights; either for business, family or leisure. If it’s not here, they’ll just be packing even more into Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted. The difference is those flights often have to hold for anything up to half an hour, just flying round and round in circles, burning jet fuel over southern England.

You talk so much shit it’s unreal. First you say airport expansions have no impact on the number of flights because they just move planes from different airports, then you say aviation is continually expanding.

[buctootim]

35 minutes ago, whelk said:

I am happy to save the planet but sod this non flying lark. If it is going to happen I want it to be near me. Happy to eat the odd plant burger to atone for my environmental sins

 

Yep exactly. On a global scale you can do anything if you allow for it and cut back emissions elsewhere. What you cant do is have 8 billion people all saying "my little bit doesnt make a difference"     

[Lighthouse]

34 minutes ago, buctootim said:

I amazed people still attempt this line. No point in insulating houses / fuel efficiency, renewables - look at how much carbon countries like Indonesia pump out. Meanwhile in Indonesia 'why should we make reductions when the UK emits four times per capita what we do?'

Yes China pumps out a lot of carbon - because they now make the goods we used to make and still consume. Britain has largely done well on carbon specifically because we lost energy intensive industries like steel and aluminium smelting, mining etc coal  If you look at carbon based on where those goods end up you get a very different picture. We are the consumers. The stuff gets made and shipped because we buy it 

If there was a carbon tax based on the amount of carbon used to produce and transport a product and payable by the consumer you would still have the same range of goods but a totally different means of production and demand   

      

Except that’s a completely separate issue. We don’t need need uninsulated, freezing cold houses. We don’t need 5 litre, V8 Range Rovers to drop the kids off in Hammersmith. We don’t need our Watts to be produced by some dirty, coal burning power station. We do need to fly and planes are more efficient than ever. The most modern jets are anywhere between 10-20% more fuel efficient than the ones which preceded them.

You’re completely right about China and Indonesia - so the question is why are none of those products being demonised?  Why are we picking on the 1.9% industry and more specifically the regional deployment of aircraft? Why are there never climate change activists breaking into Top Shop, JD Sports or Curry’s PC World?

 

18 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You talk so much shit it’s unreal. First you say airport expansions have no impact on the number of flights because they just move planes from different airports, then you say aviation is continually expanding.

You’ve got it the wrong way around. Cities grow, economies expand, aircraft become more cost efficient and eventually you reach a point where routes become viable. The demand is there; we have Southampton, Pompey, Bournemouth, Salisbury, Winchester, Basingstoke, Havant, Chichester and a whole bunch of other places within an hour of Eastleigh. I used to live in Three Bridges - I took the train to Southampton and back every Saturday to watch us play for several years. If I will do that for 90 minutes of football and some beer, most other people will do it for a long weekend in Barcelona. 

[buctootim]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

 Why are we picking on the 1.9% industry and more specifically the regional deployment of aircraft? Why are there never climate change activists breaking into Top Shop, JD Sports or Curry’s PC World?

Srsly? Maybe because one return flight to New York emits around 950kg of carbon whilst using a laptop 8 hours per day for 365 days a years emits around 80kg? Making a pair of trainers and wearing them for a year will have emitted c14kg of carbon.   

Edited 12 April, 2021 by buctootim

[Lighthouse]

50 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Srsly? Maybe because one return flight to New York emits around 950kg of carbon whilst using a laptop 8 hours per day for 365 days a years emits around 80kg? Making a pair of trainers and wearing them for a year will have emitted c14kg of carbon.   

Why do you sarcastically accuse me of making a 'great point' then compare the cost of a flight, which is deliberately high in CO2 and never going to happen from Southampton, to the price of one laptop or pair of trainers? However you try and dress it up, aviation is 1.9% of global emissions and around 12% of the transport sector. We don't go to New York every weekend, we do buy consumer goods.

 

A more realistic return flight to Ibiza will burn around 280kg, so assuming your c14kg is correct for a pair of trainers (and rather lazily extrapolating that to other items of clothing) equals 20 items. I have exes who would buy that on one Saturday, before lunch.

 

I would agree with you on a lot of environmental issues. I'm all for developing bio-fuels in aviation, I'd agree with the French and their ban on regional flights and when I ski in Europe I take the Eurostar. I find it mental that people fly from here to places like Manchester and Leeds. However, when there is a need to flying we're better off doing it from as close to home as possible, I'd have said that was fairly obvious.

[Plastic]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Definitely nothing to see here!!

Missed that one, fair enough! 👍

[skintsaint]

8 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

We don’t need 5 litre, V8 Range Rovers to drop the kids off in Hammersmith.

Funnily enough a friends missus of mine had a big whinge one night about people like me owning a V8 (which I drive once a week at most), she didn't like the answer she was being hypocritical and having 4 kids will ruin the planet far more than what I am doing with my car. Not on best terms with her after that as it got a bit heated as she thought I was personally attacking her kids  🙄.

Edited 13 April, 2021 by skintsaint

[Lighthouse]

7 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Funnily enough a friends missus of mine had a big whinge one night about people like me owning a V8 (which I drive once a week at most), she didn't like the answer she was being hypocritical and having 4 kids will ruin the planet far more than what I am doing with my car. Not on best terms with her after that as it got a bit heated as she thought I was personally attacking her kids  🙄.

I heard an advert a couple of days ago which trumps anything else I’ve seen recently on the environment; you can now get Costa coffee from Über Eats. That’s right, you can pay somebody to make you a cup of coffee and someone else will drive it across town to your house.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I heard an advert a couple of days ago which trumps anything else I’ve seen recently on the environment; you can now get Costa coffee from Über Eats. That’s right, you can pay somebody to make you a cup of coffee and someone else will drive it across town to your house.

To be fair, they won't be driving far, Costas are like cockroaches!  In Weston we currently have 5 with one more on its way, all within about 5 miles of each other!

[ecuk268]

Some bloke called Ron Meldrum from the Green Party had a letter in yesterday's Echo pointing out that, after the runway extension is finished, there will be 20 Airbus 380's taking off between 6.00 and 7.00am.

No idea how he came to this ridiculous idea. Just shows how low the Echo has sunk having this as their main letter.

[whelk]

Anyone know more details on the 12 location BA are flying to?

http://dlvr.it/S0jLFw

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Anyone know more details on the 12 location BA are flying to?

http://dlvr.it/S0jLFw

Did you read the article you linked to?

In it, it states :

Quote

Under a new agreement with Southampton Airport, British Airways is set to operate up to 18 flights each weekend to 12 locations including Portugal, Spain, Italy, Greece, France and Germany.

BA's website lists the missing 6 destinations :

BA's website

[whelk]

20 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Did you read the article you linked to?

In it, it states :

BA's website lists the missing 6 destinations :

BA's website

Yeah but they are big countries

Thanks for link 

 

 

Edited 30 May, 2021 by whelk

[The Kraken]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Anyone know more details on the 12 location BA are flying to?

http://dlvr.it/S0jLFw

I don’t know them all but I do know BA were set to take on some of FlyBE’s old routes. Faro and Malaga are definitely in. Alicante and Murcia were other destinations in Spain that they used to go to, I would be surprised if Alicante isn’t one of them. I think Barcelona too, maybe. And I think they had a couple of destinations in the south of France. No idea on the other countries I’m afraid.

Edit. Didn’t read the link to BA site 🤭

Edited 30 May, 2021 by The Kraken

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, The Kraken said:

I don’t know them all but I do know BA were set to take on some of FlyBE’s old routes. Faro and Malaga are definitely in. Alicante and Murcia were other destinations in Spain that they used to go to, I would be surprised if Alicante isn’t one of them. I think Barcelona too, maybe. And I think they had a couple of destinations in the south of France. No idea on the other countries I’m afraid.

Edit. Didn’t read the link to BA site 🤭

There used to be a lot in France. Perpignan and La Rochelle come to mind?

[egg]

7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There used to be a lot in France. Perpignan and La Rochelle come to mind?

Yep, they also did Beziers for a while which was only an hour from Perpignan. Beziers was always cheaper so I used it a few times. They also did Toulon I think and a few others. Those routes were never sustainable. 

[gandalf]

10 hours ago, egg said:

Yep, they also did Beziers for a while which was only an hour from Perpignan. Beziers was always cheaper so I used it a few times. They also did Toulon I think and a few others. Those routes were never sustainable. 

And Bergerac

 

 

 

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

Strasbourg?

Didn’t they also do Chambourcy?