Che Adams - could Saints do better?

[supersonic]

On 01/05/2021 at 09:23, JustinSFC said:

I don't care what anyone says, this lad is a great signing for £10m quid.

I agree, shame we paid £15m for him which detracts a fair bit from value for money 

[SKD]

Answer to the thread is still Yes.

Edited 8 May, 2021 by SKD

[supersonic]

9 minutes ago, SKD said:

Answer to the thread is still Yes.

15 goals in last 92 matches.

Only ever got double figures in a season once.

The answer to this thread, and evidenced by tonight, is overwhelming "yes"

[S-Clarke]

He's never going to get you many goals, but he brings other things to the table. Needs a clinical partner and he's pretty effective with his movement and hold up play.

I will add though that his finishing is just diabolical for a player at this level, he's got to be better. Although he won't get many goals, he's still got to finish better than he is.

Davis is coaching him apparently, well we need to stop that and invest in some actual coaching. 

[SKD]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He's never going to get you many goals, but he brings other things to the table. Needs a clinical partner and he's pretty effective with his movement and hold up play.

I will add though that his finishing is just diabolical for a player at this level, he's got to be better. Although he won't get many goals, he's still got to finish better than he is.

Davis is coaching him apparently, well we need to stop that and invest in some actual coaching. 

I agree with this. The trouble is, where do we get a clinical striker on our budget? 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

I agree with this. The trouble is, where do we get a clinical striker on our budget? 

Keep Ings and cross your fingers he stays fit!

[Wade Garrett]

HIs finishing is crap.  I don’t care what else he can do.

[Teddeer]

38 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

He's never going to get you many goals, but he brings other things to the table. Needs a clinical partner and he's pretty effective with his movement and hold up play.

I will add though that his finishing is just diabolical for a player at this level, he's got to be better. Although he won't get many goals, he's still got to finish better than he is.

Davis is coaching him apparently, well we need to stop that and invest in some actual coaching. 

I find it very hard to believe that Davis is coaching Che Adams. If this is true then there is far more wrong at the club than I thought - to the best of my knowledge, even in his best season, Davis never managed a shot on target let alone a goal.

[S-Clarke]

Just now, Teddeer said:

I find it very hard to believe that Davis is coaching Che Adams. If this is true then there is far more wrong at the club than I thought - to the best of my knowledge, even in his best season, Davis never managed a shot on target let alone a goal.

I'm certain I heard this from the club, either in an interview or a pre-match feature. I don't think I've made it up!

But Davis as one of our coaches full stop has never felt right tbh.

[Chapel End]

Yes we could but on our budget we are restricted. 

I think Adams and Ings work well together so let's hope Semmens confidence that Ings will sign bears fruit 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

15 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'm certain I heard this from the club, either in an interview or a pre-match feature. I don't think I've made it up!

But Davis as one of our coaches full stop has never felt right tbh.

I don't really like goalkeepers as outfield coaches either but if Davis is acting as the keeper and setting up situations where Adams can practice his finishing then it's not totally bonkers. There's a limit to how much you can explain to someone how to shoot, and if he's getting that from elsewhere then all that's left is for Adams to practice and ultimately work it out for himself

[gordonToo]

Today should have convinced any doubters that Adams needs to be moved on. And include Redmond in that category also. 

[MAY-Z]

1 hour ago, Wade Garrett said:

HIs finishing is crap.  I don’t care what else he can do.

So was Brett Ormerod but he worked well with Beattie and made us a better team.

Adams works well with Ings and makes us a better team, Adam’s was our best player last week with other aspects of his game

There is more to the game than just goals, I remember back in the days of Rasiak, he was a good finisher but everyone moaned he didn’t run around a lot

[SKD]

8 minutes ago, MAY-Z said:

So was Brett Ormerod but he worked well with Beattie and made us a better team.

Adams works well with Ings and makes us a better team, Adam’s was our best player last week with other aspects of his game

There is more to the game than just goals, I remember back in the days of Rasiak, he was a good finisher but everyone moaned he didn’t run around a lot

.

 

Edited 8 May, 2021 by SKD

[MAY-Z]

2 minutes ago, SKD said:

And when Beattie left, we went down because Ormerod wasn’t good enough to replace or contribute enough to replace his goals ... 

 

 

Ormerod spent a lot of our relegation season out on loan and didn’t appear in double figure matches as we had Beattie, Phillips, Crouch, Camara so not sure what point you are trying to make here

[Saint Garrett]

I’d love to know what people are expecting from Adams…are we expecting him to be too English goalscorer ?! 20 goals a season ? 
 

I expect him to get a few goals, and contribute to the team which he does. Could his finishing be better? Yes? But his play in general is relentless and deserves credit. Not sure what people expect from a second striker of a club with no money. 

[SKD]

4 hours ago, MAY-Z said:

Ormerod spent a lot of our relegation season out on loan and didn’t appear in double figure matches as we had Beattie, Phillips, Crouch, Camara so not sure what point you are trying to make here

No you’re right, I deleted as a result. 

[Chris cooper]

We need goals next season to stand any chance of staying in the division we can’t afford to have che as a passenger .. if Ings goes and he’s our main striker along side maybe obafemi I think personally that’s a championship partnership and that’s where we will be after next season ..I like che’s work off the ball and hold up play but we need 12-15 goals from him as 2nd striker and it’s plain to see that will not happen on current form .. especially if Davis is his Coach ..cut losses and sell him on....with ings and Adams money go and get Ivan Toney at Brentford with obafemi along side him next year ..untried in premier but so was Ollie Watkins ..the trees he’s pulled up this year he has a forest in his back yard .. 

[gordonToo]

5 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I’d love to know what people are expecting from Adams…

Goals?

[skintsaint]

Leeds were sniffing around at one point. Wonder if they still want him? Will probably go up there and bang them in for fun knowing us.

[SKD]

5 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I’d love to know what people are expecting from Adams…are we expecting him to be too English goalscorer ?! 20 goals a season ? 
 

I expect him to get a few goals, and contribute to the team which he does. Could his finishing be better? Yes? But his play in general is relentless and deserves credit. Not sure what people expect from a second striker of a club with no money. 

Perhaps not missing simple 1 on 1 chances game after game isn’t too much to ask? 

[stknowle]

7 hours ago, Saint Garrett said:

I’d love to know what people are expecting from Adams…are we expecting him to be too English goalscorer ?! 20 goals a season ? 
 

I expect him to get a few goals, and contribute to the team which he does. Could his finishing be better? Yes? But his play in general is relentless and deserves credit. Not sure what people expect from a second striker of a club with no money. 

Of all the criticisms you could level at Scottish International Che Adams, being too English isn't one of them (winky smiler thing). On a more serious note, yes we could do better but no we ain't going to.

[Mr X]

Even if ings did stay which looks unlikely he has maybe two decent seasons in him left tops & we have no one to step up to the table (tella one for the future) any kind of injury to ings exposes just how bad our strike force is we simply have to address it ready for next season, we won't get lucky again.  Question is who can we get who's likely to get near ings within our budget?

[TWar]

Good player, average finisher, had a decent game getting in good positions but didn't quite do it. One of the top keepers in the world to be fair. Che is fine, he's a 10 goal a season striker with good hold up play and creates chances. I think he's fine. 

[beatlesaint]

2 hours ago, SKD said:

Perhaps not missing simple 1 on 1 chances game after game isn’t too much to ask? 

Yep. simple as that really, when you get two great chances in a Premier league game you just have to take one, especially if the keeper is passing it straight to you.

Look as people have said he's not a 20 goal a season man but bloody hell when offered a golden chance he should be finding the target a lot more than he does. That miss against Burnley in the final minute a few weeks ago sums Adams up for me in a nutshell unfortunately. 

[stknowle]

13 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Yep. simple as that really, when you get two great chances in a Premier league game you just have to take one, especially if the keeper is passing it straight to you.

Look as people have said he's not a 20 goal a season man but bloody hell when offered a golden chance he should be finding the target a lot more than he does. That miss against Burnley in the final minute a few weeks ago sums Adams up for me in a nutshell unfortunately. 

Add to that the blast straight at Lloris - it was literally harder not to score than score that - and the 2 last night that's four golden scoring opportunities wasted in recent matches. I'd say it's a lack of composure that's the problem but with the Burnley one he looked nice and composed and still fucked it up.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I thought Obafemi did more in his short appearance  than Che did the whole game yesterday. It’s early days but if ha can train on and stay fit next season, could well take Adams place as “support striker” 

Edited 9 May, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[benjii]

On the basis you need more than one striker in your squad then clearly he is a useful player for us and his all round game can be very good. He was unlucky to get dropped at the time he was on a good run and had just scored his first international goal.

People saying "move him on" are, unfortunately, pretty stupid. Ings will likely move on and we aren't going to be spending 50m on a pair of strikers so let's worry about replacing Ings before we start on Adams. In addition, we need two full backs, probably a centre back, and a central midfielder as bigger priorities.

Adams really isn't a problem.

 

Edited 9 May, 2021 by benjii

[benjii]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I thought Obafemi did more in his short appearance  than Che did the whole game yesterday. It’s early days but if ha can train on and stay fit next season, could well take Adams place as “support striker” 

Obafemi has a lot of potential, for sure,  but Ralph never really seemed to trust him. Let's hope Obafemi can push on next year because I don't think he's done enough to persuade another PL team to sign him so he will end up sliding down the divisions if he's not careful.

Adams, Obafemi plus Ings / good Ings replacement is a decent bunch of options, then you've got Tella as well, but you know the Ings replacement will be a young player with no PL experience so it would also be good if we could sign someone who's been around a bit to take some if the pressure up top. But I doubt we will. 

[badgerx16]

10 hours ago, gordonToo said:

Today should have convinced any doubters that Adams needs to be moved on. And include Redmond in that category also. 

Not a response directly aimed at you, but prompted by your comments;

Adding together the various opinions on players, who to keep, who to move on, which expiring contracts to let lapse, loanees to be overlooked, and players to be "cashed in" on, the list of those heading for the exit seems to be at the least;

Minamino, Walcott, Bertrand, Vestergaard, Bednarek. Adams, Redmond, Forster, Gunn, McCarthy, Jankewitz, Ings, Stephens, Lemina

I think it is just as well, considering the financial climate, that this forum isn't in control of the club's recruitment and retention policy.

[SKD]

20 minutes ago, benjii said:

On the basis you need more than one striker in your squad then clearly he is a useful player for us and his all round game can be very good. He was unlucky to get dropped at the time he was on a good run and had just scored his first international goal.

People saying "move him on" are, unfortunately, pretty stupid. Ings will likely move on and we aren't going to be spending 50m on a pair of strikers so let's worry about replacing Ings before we start on Adams. In addition, we need two full backs, probably a centre back, and a central midfielder as bigger priorities.

Adams really isn't a problem.

 

He kind of is though, isn’t he and yesterday showed why. 
 

If we have a striker who’s good enough fir this level, we don’t lose that game. 

[SKD]

26 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I thought Obafemi did more in his short appearance  than Che did the whole game yesterday. It’s early days but if ha can train on and stay fit next season, could well take Adams place as “support striker” 

I wouldn’t be surprised. Even Long managed that last season for long spells. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

It all depends on what the Board want Southampton to achieve. If it is going to be treading water in the bottom third of the Premiership season after season then keep Adams. If there are aspirations for better things then Adams isn't what we need. Yes, his work rate and effort are decent enough but he is a striker, first and foremost. Forget this 2nd striker malarkey. A striker is a striker and their job is to score goals and Adams goal tally isn't good enough. Look at the teams from 14th place up. Would any of them buy Adams if he was on offer? No, they wouldn't.

[S-Clarke]

6 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

It all depends on what the Board want Southampton to achieve. If it is going to be treading water in the bottom third of the Premiership season after season then keep Adams. If there are aspirations for better things then Adams isn't what we need. Yes, his work rate and effort are decent enough but he is a striker, first and foremost. Forget this 2nd striker malarkey. A striker is a striker and their job is to score goals and Adams goal tally isn't good enough. Look at the teams from 14th place up. Would any of them buy Adams if he was on offer? No, they wouldn't.

People keep saying ''the board'' - they have no power on where we go or what we achieve, they are just keeping the lights on in light of no outside help or investment. They deserve credit for doing that in my opinion.

On the fans forum the ambition was clear - they said they know we cant' compete with Villa, Leeds, Everton, Wolves etc - so we try and focus on competing with the likes of Burnley/Palace to see if we can squeeze top half, that's pretty much what they said. Some people might not like that, but this is the reality without any owner involvement. We just need to keep our heads above water until we can hope to secure new ownership which actually has a plan. Keeping players like Adams i'd say is a good idea for us at the moment....we're not going to get better than him as a second striker in our current guise.

Edited 9 May, 2021 by S-Clarke

[supersonic]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Good player, average finisher, had a decent game getting in good positions but didn't quite do it. One of the top keepers in the world to be fair. Che is fine, he's a 10 goal a season striker with good hold up play and creates chances. I think he's fine. 

Where do people get this nonsense about him being a 10-goal a season striker?

With the amount of chances we create he SHOULD be at least a 10 goal a season striker, but he's only reached double figures twice:

14/15: 3 goals in 13 games

15/16: 12 goals in 41 games

16/17: 7 goals in 43 games

17/18: 9 goals in 33 games

18/19: 22 goals in 48 games

19/20: 5 goals in 36 games

20/21: 7 goals in 39 games.

Seems we jumped on the hype train after his once prolific season, and it shows 

Edited 9 May, 2021 by supersonic

[Billy the Kidd]

12 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Where do people get this nonsense about him being a 10-goal a season striker?

With the amount of chances we create he SHOULD be at least a 10 goal a season striker, but he's only reached double figures twice:

14/15: 3 goals in 13 games

15/16: 12 goals in 41 games

16/17: 7 goals in 43 games

17/18: 9 goals in 33 games

18/19: 22 goals in 48 games

19/20: 5 goals in 36 games

20/21: 7 goals in 39 games.

Seems we jumped on the hype train after his once prolific season, and it shows 

So, he averages just over 9 goals a season then.

I’m not saying we cant do better - but his average is pretty close to what others are claiming. Who knows, next season we could be fending off offers after he hits 17 by Xmas.

Then again, maybe we wont 😂

That said - I can see him getting 2 or 3 more this season.

[Philvinda]

Definitely not Prem standard. Doesn’t have a great football brain. Always wants to leather it. 

[Neef]

The Adams conversation is quite simple for me. 

Very good player for the team, but as much as he contributes, he needs to score the sitters. 

He holds up the ball well, brings others into play. Presses really well too and is a much needed physical presence in what is quite a lightweight team. But it's hard not to be frustrated with some of the chances he passes by. 

The excellent goals he has scored vs Newcastle, CIty & Sheffield United etc should almost be bonus goals for strikers. It's the 2/3 yard chances he sometimes screws is where his true value as a goalscorer can be. It's almsot more frustrating that he clearly has the intuition and tactical skill to put himself in those positions (a trait that is to be respected in itself). 

To me, he's a decent striker who is teetering on the border of being good.

 

[Billy the Kidd]

13 minutes ago, Philvinda said:

Definitely not Prem standard. Doesn’t have a great football brain. Always wants to leather it. 

Didnt he try to delicately chip the 1st chance last night? Maybe if he had it could have flown through the keepers legs.

[badgerx16]

25 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Didnt he try to delicately chip the 1st chance last night? Maybe if he had it could have flown through the keepers legs.

Perhaps some credit should go to the goalkeeper.

[supersonic]

1 hour ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So, he averages just over 9 goals a season then.

I’m not saying we cant do better - but his average is pretty close to what others are claiming. Who knows, next season we could be fending off offers after he hits 17 by Xmas.

Then again, maybe we wont 😂

That said - I can see him getting 2 or 3 more this season.

He's got double figures twice, once in League 1. Looking at his stats, you can see what his normal is, and which one is the anomaly. He's an average striker who had a good (half) season before we bought him. 

Yet you think there's a chance he'll get 150% of his second best season in 4 months in the highest league.

Forgive me whilst I laugh uncontrollably.

[Billy the Kidd]

3 minutes ago, supersonic said:

He's got double figures twice, once in League 1. Looking at his stats, you can see what his normal is, and which one is the anomaly. He's an average striker who had a good (half) season before we bought him. 

Yet you think there's a chance he'll get 150% of his second best season in 4 months in the highest league.

Forgive me whilst I laugh uncontrollably.

I've said he may get a few more this season.

I was only kidding about next season, fuck knows how many he will get. 

Literally, again, you twist people's words that are in black and white.

I said he may get 17, then again, he may not.

Try reading what has been said, and not what hasn't.

Edited 9 May, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[Whitey Grandad]

I find him frustrating because he gets into the right situations but then loses all composure and subtlety, unlike Minamino who knows what to do when he gets there. It’s just that for all other aspects Che is a better asset.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I find him frustrating because he gets into the right situations but then loses all composure and subtlety, unlike Minamino who knows what to do when he gets there. It’s just that for all other aspects Che is a better asset.

I agree. So if Leeds came in with £15-20m for him, would you be tempted?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

It all depends on what the Board want Southampton to achieve. If it is going to be treading water in the bottom third of the Premiership season after season then keep Adams. If there are aspirations for better things then Adams isn't what we need. Yes, his work rate and effort are decent enough but he is a striker, first and foremost. Forget this 2nd striker malarkey. A striker is a striker and their job is to score goals and Adams goal tally isn't good enough. Look at the teams from 14th place up. Would any of them buy Adams if he was on offer? No, they wouldn't.

You see, I'd say that if the club wants to move up from the bottom third then we need a third choice striker like Adams to cover for injuries. We need to build on him, not replace

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I agree. So if Leeds came in with £15-20m for him, would you be tempted?

It depends on who we could bring in to replace him. That price doesn’t buy you much these days and just sitting and counting the money wouldn’t buy us any goals.

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

It depends on who we could bring in to replace him. That price doesn’t buy you much these days and just sitting and counting the money wouldn’t buy us any goals.

Yep true.

I think for what he cost he has done as I'd expect.

He could have a few more goals with better luck and more composure. 

I think he can get around 10 next season, which considering his all round game, would be a bad return from his role.

Main striker though,  we may be done for.

I do wonder if Ralph will try Oba in the next couple of games.

[RobM]

Adams does everything right, up to the point he needs to shoot. Everything else he offers us is great. The problem is the fact he's our main striker this season (given Ings' injuries and lukewarm performances when coming back from injury) and that isn't good enough if we want to be comfortable in the Prem.

 

Bring in another striker who can match Ings at his best and Adams is an asset to have around for competition, cup runs, cover, an option from the bench, etc.

[Chapel End]

12 minutes ago, RobM said:

Adams does everything right, up to the point he needs to shoot. Everything else he offers us is great. The problem is the fact he's our main striker this season (given Ings' injuries and lukewarm performances when coming back from injury) and that isn't good enough if we want to be comfortable in the Prem.

 

Bring in another striker who can match Ings at his best and Adams is an asset to have around for competition, cup runs, cover, an option from the bench, etc.

Great in principle but where is the money coming from

[DT]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I agree. So if Leeds came in with £15-20m for him, would you be tempted?

He'll suddenly be world-beating with an excellent manager and top-notch fitness regime if he went there. Two things we appear to lack (IMO)