Che Adams - could Saints do better?

[Professor]

Che has done well enough to get international recognition, even if it is only due to having a grandmother who was born in Scotland.  On the south coast, he hasn't gained a definite place in the starting line-up despite Ralph's perseverance.  Maybe he's become what many people would call a squad player. When the club bought him, it felt as if there were higher expectations.  These are his performance stats on the Premier League website:

Goals    11 ;  Goals per match  0.19;  Headed goals  0;  Goals with right foot  10;  Goals with left foot  1;  Penalties scored  0;  Freekicks scored  0;  Shots  82;  Shots on target  33;  Shooting accuracy 40%;  Hit woodwork2;  Big chances missed  21.

11 goals in 59 appearances for a central striker raises the obvious question.  For some people, that question might have been answered on Sunday in the last couple of minutes of the game, when Che was put through on goal, and with only the keeper to beat he couldn't get his shot on target.    

Anyone think Saints should listen to offers?

[stevy777_x]

Yes if we want to push for top 8. 
for anything under that he is sufficient

[LiberalCommunist]

We have quite a few players that I wouldn't mind seeing go this summer, but Che certainly isn't one of them. 

He's not the finished product by any stretch of the imagination, but he's hungry, and he gives his all. There's better players out there who would do worse than he. 

[SNSUN]

I think he'll get better, and therefore should be kept. He should, however, never be considered as our "number one" striker. If Ings leaves, we really need to be sourcing a goal machine from somewhere. Whenever we've had a goal scoring striker, most often there has been a player alongside that hasn't contributed so many goals - Ormerod for example. I can't think of many occassions where we went out to sign a proven goalscorer to play alongside a goalscorer except Kevin Phillips. (From my era 90's onwards in the Prem I mean. I guess Barnard/Sharp alongside Rickie counts if we look at our lower league years). If we do have inspiration for top 8 then maybe we should try to add a better 'second' striker, but I can't see us having the money for that.

 

With Ings' future up in the air, Long not wanted, Obafemi not trusted by the manager, N'Lundulu not exactly setting the world alight, and Walcott's iffy finishing, we should be doing everything we can to keep Adams happy this summer.

 

EDIT: In addition however, if someone offers stupid money for him (Like north of £30 million) then I'd be thinking about it!

Edited 7 April, 2021 by SNSUN
EDIT

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Che is good enough as a second striker.  His work rate and teamwork are great to have around more prolific strike partners.  He's also pretty good on the ball and I expect he's notched up a similar amount of goals to assists.

Assuming Ings goes in the summer, I wouldn't be looking to lose Che too.

[SKD]

Yes. Pretty average player, realistically belongs in the championship. His Finishing and composure in front of goal is appalling a which makes me doubt he’ll ever improve to the point where he can be relied upon. 

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Che is good enough as a second striker.  His work rate and teamwork are great to have around more prolific strike partners.  He's also pretty good on the ball and I expect he's notched up a similar amount of goals to assists.

Assuming Ings goes in the summer, I wouldn't be looking to lose Che too.

What is this ‘second striker’ nonsense people bang on about? To me, it seems as if it’s an excuse for him being pretty poor in front of goal. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

Yes. Pretty average player, realistically belongs in the championship. His Finishing and composure in front of goal is appalling a which makes me doubt he’ll ever improve to the point where he can be relied upon. 

Belongs in the championship is nuts. He is better than a number of prem strikers right now and when he was in the championship was clearly too good for it.

 

Che at the moment is a midtable striker. Top half passing, hold up play, and positioning; bottom half finishing. His finishing is coming on though so I think he will improve. Would be gutted to lose Che personally.

[Cartman]

Well worth his place in the squad, but not as starter. We should have two forwards who better than him.

[SKD]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Belongs in the championship is nuts. He is better than a number of prem strikers right now and when he was in the championship was clearly too good for it.

 

Che at the moment is a midtable striker. Top half passing, hold up play, and positioning; bottom half finishing. His finishing is coming on though so I think he will improve. Would be gutted to lose Che personally.

Which starting premier league strikers would you say he’s better than (baring in mind he lost his place to Long last season and seemingly Redmond this one).  

I think the fact that if we had to rely on his goals to stay up, we’d be in the championship says that he’s not. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

What is this ‘second striker’ nonsense people bang on about? To me, it seems as if it’s an excuse for him being pretty poor in front of goal. 

Most teams who have a front two tend to have one striker who provides more, passes well, and drops off, and one who is a fox in the box style goal scorer. "Second striker" is normally the former, remember Bergkamp  and Henry for Arsenal is the classic example. You don't see so many teams who play two up top recently so people have forgotten the role of second striker somewhat but it is very much not an "excuse". Che has almost double the expected assists per 90 that Danny does this season and over double last season. He is clearly this role for us.

[skintsaint]

Hasn't he scored more leagues goals this season than the likes of Firmino, Mane, Richarlison etc? Might be wrong.

[SKD]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

Hasn't he scored more leagues goals this season than the likes of Firmino, Mane, Richarlison etc? Might be wrong.

Irrelevant really, as they’re all clearly 1000000% better than him.

[TWar]

39 minutes ago, SKD said:

Which starting premier league strikers would you say he’s better than (baring in mind he lost his place to Long last season and seemingly Redmond this one).  

I think the fact that if we had to rely on his goals to stay up, we’d be in the championship says that he’s not. 

Well he is 11th for goals, 9th for assists in the league (EDIT: This is out of all strikers, out of all players he is 24th and 29th for goals and assists respectively), so a good few players are worse than him. But I wouldn't have a single striker from Sheffield United, West Brom, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, or Palace over him (unless you call Zaha a striker). I think when people say championship quality they forget some teams in this league regularly line up with people like Benteke, Welbeck, Vydra as their starting forwards and don't get relegated, teams that do get relegated have strikers that manage under five goals a year or something like Sheffield united, West Brom and Fulham have.

Edited 7 April, 2021 by TWar

[SKD]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Most teams who have a front two tend to have one striker who provides more, passes well, and drops off, and one who is a fox in the box style goal scorer. "Second striker" is normally the former, remember Bergkamp  and Henry for Arsenal is the classic example. You don't see so many teams who play two up top recently so people have forgotten the role of second striker somewhat but it is very much not an "excuse". Che has almost double the expected assists per 90 that Danny does this season and over double last season. He is clearly this role for us.

Fair enough, although I’d consider Bergkamp to be more of a traditional 10 than an out and out forward. 
 

I still think, for a team like us, he isn’t consistent enough in front of goal, which for a striker, is important. 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, SKD said:

Fair enough, although I’d consider Bergkamp to be more of a traditional 10 than an out and out forward. 
 

I still think, for a team like us, he isn’t consistent enough in front of goal, which for a striker, is important. 

I think the 10 position evolved out of the second striker from a 442 formation, not sure tbh, I don't remember there being many 10s in the early 2000's but there were a tonne of the "little and large" striker duo. Ours is a modern take on that, Che being "large" because he is strong rather than being tall.

Edited 7 April, 2021 by TWar

[SKD]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

Well he is 11th for goals, 9th for assists in the league, so a good few players are worse than him. But I wouldn't have a single striker from Sheffield United, West Brom, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, or Palace over him (unless you call Zaha a striker). I think when people say championship quality they forget some teams in this league regularly line up with people like Benteke, Welbeck, Vydra as their starting forwards and don't get relegated, teams that do get relegated have strikers that manage under five goals a year or something like Sheffield united, West Brom and Fulham have.

Well Sheff Utd & West Brom will be in the championship next season and I think the others are much of a muchness to be honest. I doubt those clubs would be salivating at the thought of getting Adams either. 
 

Looking at Goals in isolation is a bad way to look at it. We create more chances than most of those teams. Adams could and should have had more for us. He just simply doesn’t have the composure to play regularly at this level. 
 

Afraid of using his left foot, takes too long in front of goal and usually snatches at chances. 
 

Granted he does have a decent technique and ability to strike the ball (you’ll notice most of his goals are just foot through the ball). 

[Nordic Saint]

18 minutes ago, TWar said:

Well he is 11th for goals, 9th for assists in the league, so a good few players are worse than him. But I wouldn't have a single striker from Sheffield United, West Brom, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, or Palace over him (unless you call Zaha a striker). I think when people say championship quality they forget some teams in this league regularly line up with people like Benteke, Welbeck, Vydra as their starting forwards and don't get relegated, teams that do get relegated have strikers that manage under five goals a year or something like Sheffield united, West Brom and Fulham have.

That's impressive. He hits the ball hard, usually gets it on target and some of his goals are quite spectacular. He's certainly a better finisher than Shane Long.

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

That's impressive. He hits the ball hard, usually gets it on target and some of his goals are quite spectacular. He's certainly a better finisher than Shane Long.

I should point out, that is in the context of "best strikers", across all players he goes to to mid 24th and 29th for goals and assists respectively. So less impressive.

Edited 7 April, 2021 by TWar

[WALK DMC]

23 minutes ago, TWar said:

Well he is 11th for goals, 9th for assists in the league, so a good few players are worse than him. But I wouldn't have a single striker from Sheffield United, West Brom, Fulham, Brighton, Burnley, or Palace over him (unless you call Zaha a striker). I think when people say championship quality they forget some teams in this league regularly line up with people like Benteke, Welbeck, Vydra as their starting forwards and don't get relegated, teams that do get relegated have strikers that manage under five goals a year or something like Sheffield united, West Brom and Fulham have.

Can't kick with his left. Can't head very well. But .........   his technique on his right side is outstanding, his finishing lacks finesse (he belts it as hard as he can), he holds the ball up well and is an excellent passer to set-up chances or bring others into play. Personally I don't think that he'll ever progress much further unless he can do something about his left foot and heading, but maybe it just means that he has found his level. A mid table premier team - he'll have little runs when he scores a few but equally periods when nothing goes in.  He may hang around the Saints first team/squad for quite a few years to come without ever setting the premiership alight.   That will do fine by me, we need a few experienced players to stay if the likes of Ings & Vest move to bigger and better teams. 

Still wish that he'd practise shooting (or even passing) with his left foot in training. 

[TWar]

To be honest, there isn't much variance between striker finishing ability in the league compared to number of chances. Che has an G-xG of -0.3 so basically finishing bang on expected. He gets in good positions though, which is why he actually has very good goal contribution per game numbers since joining. He is used sparingly I think due to tactical reasons.

Edited 7 April, 2021 by TWar

[Toadhall Saint]

Keep him

[Saint Billy]

He was pretty good at Brum but although he has shown flashes in the prem he still seems not to have adapted entirely.

I still think he will come good but it is down to whether or not we have the time to wait for that to happen.

[John B]

1 hour ago, Professor said:

Che has done well enough to get international recognition, even if it is only due to having a grandmother who was born in Scotland.  On the south coast, he hasn't gained a definite place in the starting line-up despite Ralph's perseverance.  Maybe he's become what many people would call a squad player. When the club bought him, it felt as if there were higher expectations.  These are his performance stats on the Premier League website:

Goals    11 ;  Goals per match  0.19;  Headed goals  0;  Goals with right foot  10;  Goals with left foot  1;  Penalties scored  0;  Freekicks scored  0;  Shots  82;  Shots on target  33;  Shooting accuracy 40%;  Hit woodwork2;  Big chances missed  21.

11 goals in 59 appearances for a central striker raises the obvious question.  For some people, that question might have been answered on Sunday in the last couple of minutes of the game, when Che was put through on goal, and with only the keeper to beat he couldn't get his shot on target.    

Anyone think Saints should listen to offers?

YES

[waylander]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

Which starting premier league strikers would you say he’s better than (baring in mind he lost his place to Long last season and seemingly Redmond this one).  

I think the fact that if we had to rely on his goals to stay up, we’d be in the championship says that he’s not. 

Joelinton, Richarlison, Benteke

Edited 7 April, 2021 by waylander

[qwertyell]

He is what he is. We've got one outstanding striker - Ings - and then a bunch of other guys who do a job in the position (Adams, Walcott, lately Redmond, Tella) and have their moments but by and large are a massive drop off in quality from Ings.

If Adams was our number one striker, then we'd be in deep shit. But as a squad player who chips in - back up to the main man - he's all right.

[HarvSFC]

He’ll never be Ings, but he’s a good support striker, who can chip in with a few goals. If he becomes the main man after Ings, then we need to start worrying and looking for better. 

[rallyboy]

We could do a lot better, if we spent £50m.

And we could do a lot worse when you look around the division at the Bentekes and Carrolls who still seem to be stealing a living.

[badgerx16]

He would have a slightly better goal tally if he had a chance of taking penalties, which all the leading strikers tend to do.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He’s ok. Big and strong, but lacking a bit of real quality. I doubt we could get anyone much better, unless we got really lucky in the transfer window, and if we did,  I doubt they’d stay long.

Doesn’t look out of place in our squad but not really good enough for a step up. In other words, perfect. 

Edited 7 April, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[beatlesaint]

If you don’t expect too much from him you can only end up pleasantly surprised.

Having said that I expected him to slot that ball away for the 4th on Sunday so ended up disappointed 🤣

 

Theo got a fair bit of criticism on here but for me Adams miss was bloody woeful

[JustinSFC]

I honestly don't get how he get's battered.

We paid £10M quid for him and he does a decent job and he's got a finish on him.

[S-Clarke]

I think he's decent, you're not going to get much better for £10m.

He definitely needs better players around him though, he couldn't burden the load all on his own shoulders. But he's very effective in the right partnership/with the right players around him.

[verlaine1979]

The attempted placed finish at the end of the Burnley game shows you why most of the time he just tries to hit it as hard as he can. He's got good aspects to his game, and his goal return is obviously better than many of his counterparts on other teams. Still, he'd be a frustrating first choice if that's what we end up with after Ings leaves.

[The Curse of St Mary's]

He's been a decent signing imo. Chips in with goals albeit not enough. What he does do better at is assists and link up play. He's not a natural finisher which was evident with that chance v Burnley. He lacks composure, technique and confidence to be relied upon as our main striker. I like him as a foil for a more prolific striker alongside him. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

If we can improve the squad and push him down to third choice striker then that's all good but I don't see the point in getting rid

[washsaint]

What on earth are some of you muppets expecting - Messi?

He is an average Prem striker who works exceedingly hard for the team and has a better goal scoring record than Long.  He is of the standard Saints are at right now as a team.  Average - but what else can we expect?  If he was a superstar he wouldn't be playing for Saints.

[SKD]

4 hours ago, waylander said:

Joelinton, Richarlison, Benteke

😂 behave. Much better player. 
 

Id argue the other 2 are as well. 

[saintwbu]

Joelinton, Benteke, Andy Carroll, Seb Haller (now left), Dwight Gayle, Karlan Grant, Matej Vydra, Danny Welbeck, Neal Maupay, Oli McBurnie, David McGoldrick, Billy Sharp, Aleksander Mitrovic, Wesley, Willian Jose, Fabio Silva, Iheanacho (until the last few matches). These are all strikers who have been playing regularly in the Premier League over the last two seasons, most of whom cost much more than Che, that I would not swap him for. So not sure how it can be determined that he’s ‘not Premier League level’. Even take someone like Ollie Watkins, who cost 3 times more than Che Adams, and has had huge plaudits all season and an England call up - he has only been involved in 3 more goals than Che, which includes a hat trick and a penalty, all whilst being fed by one of the most creative players in the league in Grealish (don’t think he’s scored a goal since he’s been injured). Think people need to temper their expectation of what level of player should be playing for Saints to be honest.  

[Give it to Ron]

14 minutes ago, SKD said:

😂 behave. Much better player. 
 

Id argue the other 2 are as well. 

Given how many times you have posted on this I take it you don’t rate him!

[saintwbu]

15 minutes ago, SKD said:

😂 behave. Much better player. 
 

Id argue the other 2 are as well. 

I’d love to hear you argue that Joelinton is a better player, i’m sure Newcastle fans would be impressed if you managed it. 

[SKD]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Given how many times you have posted on this I take it you don’t rate him!

I think he sums up where we’re at, at the moment. But no, I don’t think he’s good enough for the PL and I think he gets an easy ride of things. 

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

I think he sums up where we’re at, at the moment. But no, I don’t think he’s good enough for the PL and I think he gets an easy ride of things. 

Easy ride you must be joking.....

[ErwinK1961]

18 minutes ago, SKD said:

😂 behave. Much better player. 
 

Id argue the other 2 are as well. 

😂

[SKD]

Just now, Give it to Ron said:

Easy ride you must be joking.....

Very rarely do I see him criticised on here when he misses a simple 1 on 1. Where as others get absolutely crucified just for walking on the pitch. 

[Saint Garrett]

I like him, he’s a good player at our level. Does a huge amount of work off the ball, and holds the ball up well. Needs to work on his composure, but probably worth 10-15 goals a season if he’s playing most games. 

[Give it to Ron]

16 minutes ago, SKD said:

Very rarely do I see him criticised on here when he misses a simple 1 on 1. Where as others get absolutely crucified just for walking on the pitch. 

Look at this thread for one as an example!

it’s just a shame people like you feel the need to criticise him so much. He isn’t the finished article but still trying to find his way in Prem but he is very much a confidence striker.

I think with time and support from management he will prove you wrong.

He is a lower half Prem striker and that’s what we paid for and anyone that thinks he isn’t ......I watched Raheem Sterling miss 5 easy 1v1 against San Marino last week.

 

Edited 7 April, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[suewhistle]

1 hour ago, Give it to Ron said:

Given how many times you have posted on this I take it you don’t rate him!

I'm not aware of any Saints player that SKD likes, and he posts an awful lot.

He could and probably should score more goals and he needs to be more confident and instinctive about using his left foot but he's a valuable asset to the squad, and whenever I think who could we get who is better I think of the price Sheffield paid for Oli McBurnie (or we paid for Carillo...)!

 

[Lighthouse]

Would I want him as out main goal getter? No. Is he better than Long, Ormerod and a whole bunch of crap, nineties strikers? Yes

Overall, he's probably on par with someone like Gabbiadini except better suited to a high-tempo, pressing game. He'll do for me.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

He's got 7 league goals with 8 games still to go this season. Apart from Danny Ings no Saints player has scored more than that in a season since the 2015-16 season (where Pelle and Mane were top scorers with 11 a piece and we finished 6th). He's doing just fine and at only 24 years old probably hasn't hit his peak either. He's got 4 assists to go with that as well a number which has only been topped since that 6th place finish twice by a Saints player by JWP this season (with 5 currently) and Tadic in 2016/17 (also with 5) so with 8 games left there's a good chance he could match or top that. To suggest he's not good enough for us is absolute b*llocks.

I can understand getting annoyed with him because with the chances he's missed he should be doing even better, but to me though that only suggests that there's even more to come from him and that he can be a key part of our team going forward. By all means if people have suggestions of proven goalscorers they'd get instead in our price range i'd like to hear them (we'll likely need one if Ings goes in the Summer anyway) but then again I also feel people have massively overinflated expectations of what sort of striker we should be able to get (i.e. unless you're playing for a top 6 team or your name is Jamie Vardy you are not getting 15+ goals a season and any strikers that can are certainly out of our price range - even Ings has only managed it once in his career so I wouldn't deem him as a proven 15+ goals a season striker for example).