Southampton 3-2 Burnley - Match Thread

[Dusic]

41 minutes ago, the boy from saints said:

Just catching up on the thread but whoever it was it felt like I was watching Burnley Supporter's TV! Even when Armstrong had an amazing shot - it was all about how good Pope's save was!

That was a great save from Pope.

[OttawaSaint]

56 minutes ago, the boy from saints said:

Just catching up on the thread but whoever it was it felt like I was watching Burnley Supporter's TV! Even when Armstrong had an amazing shot - it was all about how good Pope's save was!

The thread is hilarious. Many of the usual suspects made themselves look like total morons yet again. Now, some are working on damage limitation, whereas others are doubling down. 😂 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

Absolutely no foul on KWP. If that was the other way round, you’d be fuming if it wasn’t given. 
 

Both players had hands on each other, the attacker was just stronger. 

It is a general principle that you don’t play football with your hands. A hand off may be legal in rugby and American Football but not in the Beautiful Game.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

In fairness having just watched back again, there is a very slight pull back. You’ve seen them given, but I think it was strength that got the attacker ahead of KWP rather than the possible foul. 
 

Had the foul been given, I think it would have been very soft, but you’ve seen them given. No saints players complained including KWP, which often is a signal. 

To be fair no players on either side complained about that incident either and the real referee was happy with it.Before it was introduced we were told that VAR would not re-referee the game.

[VictiAbNonem]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

In fairness having just watched back again, there is a very slight pull back. You’ve seen them given, but I think it was strength that got the attacker ahead of KWP rather than the possible foul. 
 

Had the foul been given, I think it would have been very soft, but you’ve seen them given. No saints players complained including KWP, which often is a signal. 

Wasn't KWP complaining to the ref about it still in the second half?

[Saint Keef]

The most pleasing thing for me (apart from the result of course) was that at 2-0 down, our heads didn't drop and we showed some real spirit to get the result. With West Brom's result yesterday, they will be buzzing next week, but as a result of today's fight back, I think we'll be buzzing as well. 

Burnley are not a "bad" team. They don't play attractive football for sure, but season after season they constantly show that they know how to grind out results. Today, the boot was firmly on the other foot. We were shaky at times, but we also played some good football. Well done Saints!

It's just a pity that so many keyboard warriors on here, who obviously know far more about the game than Ralph, committed suicide after 28 minutes and that we won't be able to enjoy their moronic comments anymore. 

[Harry_SFC]

2 hours ago, SKD said:

In fairness having just watched back again, there is a very slight pull back. You’ve seen them given, but I think it was strength that got the attacker ahead of KWP rather than the possible foul. 
 

Had the foul been given, I think it would have been very soft, but you’ve seen them given. No saints players complained including KWP, which often is a signal. 

I thought it was a foul on KWP in real time but having seen the replay I think he needs to be a bit stronger in that situation. As you say, if it was given it would've been soft. 

[Saint Billy]

Damn good win that against a side that can grind out results. All three goals were class and I thought Theos assist was class. 

Theo was obviously struggling for fitness and Ings was puffing a bit but It did give us a lift having them both back. 

Shame we didn't capitalise when we caught them on the break numerous times but overall a good win and an entertaining game which I wasn't expecting. 

[Dark Munster]

4 hours ago, DT said:

Redmond did still cock up for the first goal. But he took that volley really very well indeed. 

Unfair, you're blaming the wrong player. It was Stephens who cocked up for the first goal.

[DT]

2 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Unfair, you're blaming the wrong player. It was Stephens who cocked up for the first goal.

Actually it was Kelvin Davis

[John Boy Saint]

35 minutes ago, DT said:

Actually it was Kelvin Davis

Best get your prescription checked - everyone could see it was Jermaine Wright

[Jeremy]

I've just read this thead from page 6 (been away for a while on Safari in Kenya and preparing for the next European Golf Season).

It should be placed in the Saints threads Hall of Fame. It is very darkly funny in places.

Great win in front of a very tough audience.

[Fan The Flames]

The first time we have done the double over Burnley since 1971. 

For me it was a must win game, so it was real good to pull it around. Win the next two games and the season is saved.

[JRM]

It was a great win, so rare for us to come back in games even at one down so to do if at 0-2 even better. 24 attempts at goal and that doesn't even include some of our best chances on the break that didn't materialise in a shot. 

Having Ings and Walcott back in really helps us, Armstrong was excellent as well, but all three can struggle to maintain it for 90 mins, being able to use our options on the bench at the right time is key. 

JWP so unlucky with his shot that hitthe bar, would have been a special goal. 

Beating Burnley earlier in the season kick started a great run of form,  hopefully the same again now. 

[LGTL]

First time in the PL that we’ve ever done the double over Burnley. Satisfying. 

[Shroppie]

Just seen MOTD2. Very surprised Moss on VAR didn't give Burnley a second pen for Bednarek's shirt pull. Blatant. Perhaps making up for not giving the foul on KWP before the VAR pen that was given. But that's two VAR wrongs when it's supposed to eliminate errors. Mess.

[Whitey Grandad]

50 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

Just seen MOTD2. Very surprised Moss on VAR didn't give Burnley a second pen for Bednarek's shirt pull. Blatant. Perhaps making up for not giving the foul on KWP before the VAR pen that was given. But that's two VAR wrongs when it's supposed to eliminate errors. Mess.

The pundits never stopped mentioning it but if they’re going to be balanced they ought to show all the other 23 incidents of shirt pulling inside the box.

Holding a shirt of itself is not an offence but it’s a question of how much the player is restricted in his movement. 

[Matthew Le God]

40 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Holding a shirt of itself is not an offence

What reason is there to hold someone's shirt during a game apart from to trying to gain an advantage?

[le_tiss]

12 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

The thread is hilarious. Many of the usual suspects made themselves look like total morons yet again. Now, some are working on damage limitation, whereas others are doubling down. 😂 

 

Totally agree 

I have never seen a football forum board with so many negative people / supporters on it with unrealistic expectations and no idea about how the game is played 

 

Anyway well played Saints 

[Fan The Flames]

8 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

What reason is there to hold someone's shirt during a game apart from to trying to gain an advantage?

You talk about gaining an advantage as though it's wrong, sport is all about one team/player trying to gain a legal advantage over their opponent. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

You talk about gaining an advantage as though it's wrong, sport is all about one team/player trying to gain a legal advantage over their opponent. 

Holding onto someone's shirt isn't gaining a legal advantage. It is football, not Judo.

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Fan The Flames]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Holding onto someone's shirt isn't gaining a legal advantage.

It is if it's not bad enough to be a foul.

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, Jeremy said:

I've just read this thead from page 6 (been away for a while on Safari in Kenya and preparing for the next European Golf Season).

It should be placed in the Saints threads Hall of Fame. It is very darkly funny in places.

Great win in front of a very tough audience.

Interestingly there was a former poster who used to disappear for a few weeks at a time putting it down to lavish holidays or golf....

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, Turkish said:

Interestingly there was a former poster who used to disappear for a few weeks at a time putting it down to lavish holidays or golf....

Bingo

[Teddeer]

19 minutes ago, le_tiss said:

 

Totally agree 

I have never seen a football forum board with so many negative people / supporters on it with unrealistic expectations and no idea about how the game is played 

 

Anyway well played Saints 

The people/comments on all football forums are basically the same unless you include the likes of Man City who spend so much that their fans don't ever have much to complain about.

[Fan The Flames]

But surley we have all watched football for long enough to know anything can happen, that a game or season can turn with out warning. So with an hour to go against a team with the same points the game could easily have turned.

People seem to think that there is some prize or skill in calling something early where as the sensible thing is to just sit back and see what happens.

[Teddeer]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But surley we have all watched football for long enough to know anything can happen, that a game or season can turn with out warning. So with an hour to go against a team with the same points the game could easily have turned.

People seem to think that there is some prize or skill in calling something early where as the sensible thing is to just sit back and see what happens.

I think many people largely react to how they are feeling at a given time - hence when we go 2-0 down there is a lot of anger and frustration which is vented on the forum in real time.

[Sheaf Saint]

5 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But surley we have all watched football for long enough to know anything can happen, that a game or season can turn with out warning. So with an hour to go against a team with the same points the game could easily have turned.

People seem to think that there is some prize or skill in calling something early where as the sensible thing is to just sit back and see what happens.

We're football fans. We're not really well known for objective, rational thinking during a match.

I'll hold my hands up and admit I got it very wrong yesterday, and I'm very happy to have my comments stuffed down my throat.

Based on all the evidence so far in 2021, looking an utter shambles at the back and going 2-0 down within 20 odd minutes to a team that are usually very adept at parking the bus... Seriously, blind optimism aside, how many on here genuinely believed at that point we would go on to win? Not many I'm guessing.

As it transpired, the difference was that we had the 2020 version of Ings on the pitch, along with a fit again Walcott and a newly rejuvenated Redmond. And that made all the difference to our attack. Suddenly we looked like the team that was taking opponents apart in the autumn, rather than the powder puff sideways and backwards passing that had become our MO since January.

If we can maintain that until the end of the season then we should have a decent run in.

[Micky]

22 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

But surley we have all watched football for long enough to know anything can happen, that a game or season can turn with out warning. So with an hour to go against a team with the same points the game could easily have turned.

People seem to think that there is some prize or skill in calling something early where as the sensible thing is to just sit back and see what happens.

Perhaps so,  but as many others have asked on this thread,  when was the last time we came back to win from two nil down?  It rarely happens for us, so against a Burnley team who are more than adept at grinding out single goal wins,  it looked a big ask for us to get points after half an hour.  I really don't understand the need for some to use hindsight in order to berate others (not that I think that is what you are doing with your post)  for showing their disappointment, especially after the dismal run that we have been on.  

[Lee On Solent Saint]

19 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

We're football fans. We're not really well known for objective, rational thinking during a match.

I'll hold my hands up and admit I got it very wrong yesterday, and I'm very happy to have my comments stuffed down my throat.

Based on all the evidence so far in 2021, looking an utter shambles at the back and going 2-0 down within 20 odd minutes to a team that are usually very adept at parking the bus... Seriously, blind optimism aside, how many on here genuinely believed at that point we would go on to win? Not many I'm guessing.

As it transpired, the difference was that we had the 2020 version of Ings on the pitch, along with a fit again Walcott and a newly rejuvenated Redmond. And that made all the difference to our attack. Suddenly we looked like the team that was taking opponents apart in the autumn, rather than the powder puff sideways and backwards passing that had become our MO since January.

If we can maintain that until the end of the season then we should have a decent run in.

Exactly this. Very happy to have been proved wrong by the lads. I admit I posted on here saying I thought it was all over after twenty five minutes, so to get the result in the manner that we did was extremely pleasing.

[SaintBobby]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Holding onto someone's shirt isn't gaining a legal advantage. It is football, not Judo.

Apparently, although I didn’t know this, it’s within the laws of the game to hold someone’s shirt as long as you don’t impede his movement. Seems odd to me as impeding an opponent’s movement is presumably the whole point of pulling their shirt.

Nevertheless, if an attacking player is, say, standing statically in the area and you lightly pull his shirt but it has no apparent impact on his shot or desired movement, then it’s no penalty.

The ruling seems to be that Wood was able to execute his desired movement and the shirt pull by Bednarek didn’t have any impact. Seems bizarre to me, given how extreme the tug on the shirt was, but there you have it...

[Toadhall Saint]

Is wiping your nose in an opponents shirt allowed? Just asking like.

imho if it’s outside the box it’s a foul inside not going to be given. 

[Saint Keef]

Hi all. After 28 minutes yesterday, I wet my bed, took an overdose and slashed my wrists. They've stomach-pumped me, patched up my wrists and I've just got back from the hospital. How many did we lose by in the end?

[saint michael]

I know there is a lot of talk about buying players but I would like us to invest in a top top defensive coach. I think throwing more players into the mix is not going to solve our issues. I know we let 9 in to Utd which scews things but only WBA have let in more than us. We show no real pattern of how to defend. Every cross we look like the keystone cops with people diving in. We seem to use the zonal system for set pieces which sees people standing and watching and also the smallest player marking the biggest. Just is farcical. Think big progress on coaching basics needed before spending more on defenders. 

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Micky said:

Perhaps so,  but as many others have asked on this thread,  when was the last time we came back to win from two nil down?  It rarely happens for us, so against a Burnley team who are more than adept at grinding out single goal wins,  it looked a big ask for us to get points after half an hour.  I really don't understand the need for some to use hindsight in order to berate others (not that I think that is what you are doing with your post)  for showing their disappointment, especially after the dismal run that we have been on.  

But I'm not talking with hindsight if I'm saying wait and see what happens and I'm not talking about not reacting to bad moments in football. I'm also not trying to point score, I am just surprised how people react, because as football fans surley we should all have learnt by now that things can easily change in a game or that strange results can even happen.

Who would have predicted that Chelsea would lose 2-5 at home to West Brom the other day or that Liverpool would go on such a bad run, or Leicester winning the league. How many games do you see a team be in full control for twenty minutes and then the games totally swings.

Even from the experience of our own team we have seen us boss first halfs and you think we will cruise to the end of a game and then we come out and we are shit, let one goal in and crumble. We have no exclusivity on bad stuff, it happens to other clubs and sometimes we will be the beneficiary. When it's going to happen know one knows, but what we do know is that it will happen one day.

Edited 5 April, 2021 by Fan The Flames

[Totton Saint]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

You talk about gaining an advantage as though it's wrong, sport is all about one team/player trying to gain a legal advantage over their opponent. 

FOOTball is just that  - a game played with feet. Shirt pulling was imported from the pesky dastardly  continentals  spoils the game for spectators and should be outlawed

[East Kent Saint]

Watching Motd again the Saints looked excellent in attack ! KWP was in a different weight division re the Pen , he was pushed aside and made a bad tackle as a result. Re Che's miss , did Pope get a touch with his right boot ? Plus it was inches past the the post not shot wide as in reports !

Edited 5 April, 2021 by East Kent Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

13 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

FOOTball is just that  - a game played with feet. Shirt pulling was imported from the pesky dastardly  continentals  spoils the game for spectators and should be outlawed

That and all the flinging themselves to the ground screaming in agony.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, SaintBobby said:

Apparently, although I didn’t know this, it’s within the laws of the game to hold someone’s shirt as long as you don’t impede his movement. Seems odd to me as impeding an opponent’s movement is presumably the whole point of pulling their shirt.

Nevertheless, if an attacking player is, say, standing statically in the area and you lightly pull his shirt but it has no apparent impact on his shot or desired movement, then it’s no penalty.

The ruling seems to be that Wood was able to execute his desired movement and the shirt pull by Bednarek didn’t have any impact. Seems bizarre to me, given how extreme the tug on the shirt was, but there you have it...

I do remember reading about a kit being designed to rip if tugged gently. The  thinking was that it would highlight the pull on the shirt, and make it appear worse that it was. Put it like this, had Woods’ shirt been ripped at the seams, would the referee have given a penalty. Maybe not, but it would certainly have highlighted the shirt pull. 

[Saints foreva]

Great turnaround after the poor half an hour. A deserved win, shame we didn't add more to the scoreline it would have helped with the nerves for that last 10 or so minutes! 

Good to see Redmond build on his good performance in the cup game and hopefully Ings is back to his best now. Armstrong MOTM. 

[Roo1976]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Holding onto someone's shirt isn't gaining a legal advantage. It is football, not Judo.

On another point do you think there will ever be anymore penalties given for shirt pulling a la England Columbia type marking?VAR should sort this one out and stop this in its tracks right?.............

[SaintBobby]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I do remember reading about a kit being designed to rip if tugged gently. The  thinking was that it would highlight the pull on the shirt, and make it appear worse that it was. Put it like this, had Woods’ shirt been ripped at the seams, would the referee have given a penalty. Maybe not, but it would certainly have highlighted the shirt pull. 

Yeah, I've often wondered why there isn't more "science" applied to the kits. Any advantage is at the margins of course, but then football is a game of inches.

Could shirts not be clingy and skin tight to make the harder to pull...or, as you say, designed to rip into shreds at the merest pinch? 

Does colour make a difference? Is it easier to see a pull on a striped short than a single colour shirt? etc etc

[Streaky]

15 hours ago, VictiAbNonem said:

Wasn't KWP complaining to the ref about it still in the second half?

A few did including bertrand and Armstrong, bertrand was telling the ref to look at var for the pull back on kwp

[badgerx16]

20 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I do remember reading about a kit being designed to rip if tugged gently. The  thinking was that it would highlight the pull on the shirt, and make it appear worse that it was. Put it like this, had Woods’ shirt been ripped at the seams, would the referee have given a penalty. Maybe not, but it would certainly have highlighted the shirt pull. 

They used to have them in the NFL, and a rule was introduced whereby once a player's number was obscured by ripping then he had to leave the field to swap shirts. They banned them at the start of the 80s.

[Shroppie]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

What reason is there to hold someone's shirt during a game apart from to trying to gain an advantage?

Exactly. The problem is, when they tightened up on this a few years ago, there were penalties galore for a few weeks, but rather than persisting until players got the message, they caved in and introduced an interpretation to allow players to carry on hanging onto shirts. Laws should be Laws.

[East Kent Saint]

21 minutes ago, SaintBobby said:

Yeah, I've often wondered why there isn't more "science" applied to the kits. Any advantage is at the margins of course, but then football is a game of inches.

Could shirts not be clingy and skin tight to make the harder to pull...or, as you say, designed to rip into shreds at the merest pinch? 

Does colour make a difference? Is it easier to see a pull on a striped short than a single colour shirt? etc etc

Shirt technology has been used in both Rugby codes , much tighter and synthetic material . They tried the ripping shirt but they didn’t last long !

[St_Tel49]

2 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Is wiping your nose in an opponents shirt allowed? Just asking like.

imho if it’s outside the box it’s a foul inside not going to be given. 

Not under COVID rules 🙂

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

FOOTball is just that  - a game played with feet. Shirt pulling was imported from the pesky dastardly  continentals  spoils the game for spectators and should be outlawed

And your head and your body when battling for the ball and your hands when your in goal, otherwise the name is spot on.

[spyinthesky]

Think we should dispense with shirts and each player should be contractually bound to have the team's kit design tattoed on their torsos.

In addition platers will be covered in foul smelling grease to prevent opposing players getting too close to our players

 

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, SaintBobby said:

Apparently, although I didn’t know this, it’s within the laws of the game to hold someone’s shirt as long as you don’t impede his movement. Seems odd to me as impeding an opponent’s movement is presumably the whole point of pulling their shirt.

Nevertheless, if an attacking player is, say, standing statically in the area and you lightly pull his shirt but it has no apparent impact on his shot or desired movement, then it’s no penalty.

The ruling seems to be that Wood was able to execute his desired movement and the shirt pull by Bednarek didn’t have any impact. Seems bizarre to me, given how extreme the tug on the shirt was, but there you have it...

Defenders will take hold of an opponent’s shirt so that they can detect which way he’s moving whilst they are watching a cross coming in. It’s all a question of degree. Players will jostle and nudge each other all the time in an effort to disrupt the other’s balance and timing but barge them off their feet and it’s likely to be a foul.

That said, Bednarek took it a bit too far yesterday and could have been punished for it. We have not been shown all the other instances of shirt holding that went on in that game but there will have been many. 

Moss had already ‘overruled’ Marriner for the first penalty and we don’t know what conversations took place at half time between the five officials. It’s perfectly possible that Moss drew Marriner’s attention to the shirt pull but that Marriner had taken into account other actions by Woods during that move. Marriner’s no fool.