Coronavirus

[revolution saint]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s strange that there seems to be a correlation between those who voted remain & the stay at home wankers who pretend to care for the working man, but don’t really give a fuck. 

Indeed, brexiteers have never pretended to give a fuck about the working man.

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Why were hospital staff at the snap dragons hospital  issued with a 3 page email detailing how to wear masks properly and how to dispose of them. It was stated that continued touching of mask & continued pulling  it on and off would be worse for you general health,  than not wearing one. It also clearly stated that anyone not disposing of masks correctly, would be increasing the risk of infecting their colleagues. This wasn’t just clinical staff, but everyone. 
 

Do you think the general public wear & dispose of masks correctly? And if not, surely that’s worse for their general health & increasing the risk of infecting others? 

My word still banging on about your missus’s special knowledge. In a different country you’d be getting excited chanting ‘Fire Fauci’ no doubt applauding the buffoon in the red baseball cap who has masterfully exposed the ‘know nothing’ experts.

[Weston Super Saint]

37 minutes ago, aintforever said:

 

 If wearing masks made things worse, as you say, why do they do it and have such good results?

Classic.

Run out of arguments so resort to just making shit up.

Where have I said they make things worse?

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Classic.

Run out of arguments so resort to just making shit up.

Where have I said they make things worse?

I thought they gave people a false sense of security so they can’t concentrate on other measures? Then you posted some pointless graph showing cases going up after masks were introduced.

[aintforever]

39 minutes ago, Turkish said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-how-south-koreas-track-and-trace-system-has-kept-death-count-below-500-12103124

 

excellent track and trace

There are many reasons why Korea has done so well, track and trace is probably the main reason but masks have played their part.

There was some Korean expert on the radio the other day explaining why. Even though masks have a limited effect, because it is a cheap and easy thing that the whole population can do straight away it helps with the numbers.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-how-south-koreas-track-and-trace-system-has-kept-death-count-below-500-12103124

 

excellent track and trace

Track and trace, masks, hundreds of ecmo machines, a compliant population have helped. Easy to see why we're in a mess in comparison. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

I thought they gave people a false sense of security so they can’t concentrate on other measures? Then you posted some pointless graph showing cases going up after masks were introduced.

Nope, nothing there that says they make things worse, plenty to suggest they haven't made things better but that's not the same thing is it?

[Trout-Tickler]

Every time I go out I'm always staggered by the amount of people wearing a face mask which isn't covering their nose. It's almost as if they live in an alternate universe in which your nose isn't connected your your respiratory system.

[buctootim]

17 hours ago, Turkish said:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-how-south-koreas-track-and-trace-system-has-kept-death-count-below-500-12103124

 

excellent track and trace

So why do they bother with the masks? 

Infection control is not either or - its a combination of measures. The more you deploy the more you drive down the new infection rate. The fewer you deploy the higher the rate.

Are masks a complete answer? obviously not, but they're easy and don't restrict personal freedoms as much as other measures do.  That said if the Government hadn't fucked up track and trace we wouldnt need as many measures of any sort. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

So why do they bother with the masks? 

Infection control is not either or - its a combination of measures. The more you deploy the more you drive down the new infection rate. The fewer you deploy the higher the rate.

Are masks a complete answer? obviously not, but they're easy and don't restrict personal freedoms as much as other measures do.  That said if the Government hadn't fucked up track and trace we wouldnt need as many measures of any sort. 

While I agree that our track and trace system is particularly inept, I'm not sure that we could emulate the South Korean system which states (from the link above) :

Quote

Epidemic intelligence service officers interview the patient, trying to establish their travel history from two days before symptoms developed.

That's combined with credit card and mobile phone data, which is crucial.

GDPR regulations would make that near on impossible in the UK.

Then there's this bit :

Quote

Close contacts are required by law to isolate for two weeks, either at home or at a quarantine facility.

Not sure our civil liberties and ECHR would allow a quarantine facility, so we're stuck with people pretending to be locked in their bedrooms.

[aintforever]

17 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nope, nothing there that says they make things worse, plenty to suggest they haven't made things better but that's not the same thing is it?

You're all over the place on this. You post up an irrelevant graph that doesn't prove anything, make a baseless claim about masks making people complacent then go on about why is research not being done, when it has been done you just haven't bothered looking.

Even if mask wearing has a very minimal effect is is an easy, cheap and painless way of helping reduce the spread which is why it's a no-brainer.

 

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, buctootim said:

So why do they bother with the masks? 

Infection control is not either or - its a combination of measures. The more you deploy the more you drive down the new infection rate. The fewer you deploy the higher the rate.

Are masks a complete answer? obviously not, but they're easy and don't restrict personal freedoms as much as other measures do.  That said if the Government hadn't fucked up track and trace we wouldnt need as many measures of any sort. 

I think youre confusing me with someone who has said they shouldn't have.

[Wes Tender]

20 hours ago, revolution saint said:

Indeed, brexiteers have never pretended to give a fuck about the working man.

This comment from you illustrates that you must be completely clueless about the Brexit/Remain vote demographics.

[whelk]

So many threads seem to lead to Brexit

[Wes Tender]

46 minutes ago, whelk said:

So many threads seem to lead to Brexit

Badger started it:-

It's strange how there seems to be a correlation between those thinkng the lockdown is unwarranted and those who support Brexit. No doubt they will claim that they are 'free thinkers' who can see through the BS.

Edited 3 November, 2020 by Wes Tender

[Doctoroncall]

5 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

While I agree that our track and trace system is particularly inept, I'm not sure that we could emulate the South Korean system which states (from the link above) :

GDPR regulations would make that near on impossible in the UK.

Then there's this bit :

Not sure our civil liberties and ECHR would allow a quarantine facility, so we're stuck with people pretending to be locked in their bedrooms.

What is in the GDPR regulations that would make it ‘near impossible’?

quarantine facilities have been used earlier in the year. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

Badger started it:-

It's strange how there seems to be a correlation between those thinkng the lockdown is unwarranted and those who support Brexit. No doubt they will claim that they are 'free thinkers' who can see through the BS.

"Miiss, miss, he started it !"

 

Now if Godwin's Law lurched onto the horizon.....

Edited 3 November, 2020 by badgerx16

[Weston Super Saint]

17 minutes ago, Doctoroncall said:

What is in the GDPR regulations that would make it ‘near impossible’?

quarantine facilities have been used earlier in the year. 

Having credit card data as well as mobile phone data would identify an individual.  Every individual would need to give their explicit consent for the data to be processed.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1528874672298&uri=CELEX:02016R0679-20160504

Although vague, it may be possible under the following clause but would doubtless cause a myriad of law suits...

(e) processing is necessary for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority vested in the controller;

Parliament would need to pass a law over ruling the current EU law but we've seen how well that goes down.  From Jan 1st though it may be a different kettle of fish...

[buctootim]

35 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

Although vague, it may be possible under the following clause but would doubtless cause a myriad of law suits...

 

There are probably going to be a myriad of lawsuits anyway, PPI will pale into insignificance. "you let covid into my mums carehome"; "you didnt provide adequate PPE at work"; "you made me work when goverrnment said stay home"; I caught covid on your train / plane / bus because you didnt do X"  

[Doctoroncall]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Having credit card data as well as mobile phone data would identify an individual.  Every individual would need to give their explicit consent for the data to be processed.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1528874672298&uri=CELEX:02016R0679-20160504

Although vague, it may be possible under the following clause but would doubtless cause a myriad of law suits...

(e) processing is necessary for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority vested in the controller;

Parliament would need to pass a law over ruling the current EU law but we've seen how well that goes down.  From Jan 1st though it may be a different kettle of fish...

I think you are making it more complicated than it should be with passing a law. As long as the individual has given consent, it is ok, which you stated at the beginning. The controller must abide by the regulations in processing the information and consent can be withdrawn. 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

I think you are making it more complicated than it should be with passing a law. As long as the individual has given consent, it is ok, which you stated at the beginning. The controller must abide by the regulations in processing the information and consent can be withdrawn. 

The point is that people haven't given their express consent for the Government to track their credit card history and have unlimited access to their mobile phone data - including GPS / location data (I doubt they are interested in how long someone spends on the phone to Aunty Maude).

We've already seen issues regarding privacy with the launch of the C-19 app - and that claims to only store data locally on a phone with no ability to say where a user is via GPS :

https://www.verdict.co.uk/nhs-covid-19-app/ 

I've no idea what the privacy laws are like in South Korea but if their Government are able to track people's whereabouts using GPS from their phones and credit card data, they are certainly far, far less restrictive than GDPR.

[Weston Super Saint]

Interesting article by Nick Triggle who has been pretty 'on the ball' throughout.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785032 

Conclusions are :

Track and trace doesn't work.

Nothing available financially for those told to isolate so they don't bother - who could have predicted that!

The NHS is apparently not that close to being overwhelmed with 20% of beds still available and that's before they kick out 'non covid' patients.

Not a great deal has been done to protect the vulnerable.

One in five new 'hospital cases' were actually caught whilst in hospital.

75% of the first wave of deaths came from the most vulnerable 5% of the population!

The chart predicting 4,000 deaths per day was actually just a pile of wank and based on out of date figures - wow, who would have guessed!

The predictions presented on Saturday did not include any of the measures that were in place with regards to local lockdowns - measures we were told would control the virus were clearly not deemed important enough to include in modelling.

There are currently signs that hospital cases are beginning to slow.

Lockdowns fuck up the economy.

[whelk]

Are Southampton City Council going to spin up those cycle lanes again?

[The Cat]

Kids to wear face masks in schools from Monday.

 

[The Cat]

11 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Interesting article by Nick Triggle who has been pretty 'on the ball' throughout.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785032 

Conclusions are :

Track and trace doesn't work.

Nothing available financially for those told to isolate so they don't bother - who could have predicted that!

The NHS is apparently not that close to being overwhelmed with 20% of beds still available and that's before they kick out 'non covid' patients.

Not a great deal has been done to protect the vulnerable.

One in five new 'hospital cases' were actually caught whilst in hospital.

75% of the first wave of deaths came from the most vulnerable 5% of the population!

The chart predicting 4,000 deaths per day was actually just a pile of wank and based on out of date figures - wow, who would have guessed!

The predictions presented on Saturday did not include any of the measures that were in place with regards to local lockdowns - measures we were told would control the virus were clearly not deemed important enough to include in modelling.

There are currently signs that hospital cases are beginning to slow.

Lockdowns fuck up the economy.

A lot of that sounds similar to what that Irish chap says in his YouTube videos.

 

 

[Barry the Badger]

12 hours ago, The Cat said:

Kids to wear face masks in schools from Monday.

 

Secondary school kids and not in lessons, only in communal areas.

The school I work at have been doing that since September anyway and I assumed most others were.

[Turkish]

13 hours ago, The Cat said:

A lot of that sounds similar to what that Irish chap says in his YouTube videos.

 

 

a little bit concerning that he links his paypal account and asks for support to help him continue his investigations at the end of his video.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Barry the Badger said:

Secondary school kids and not in lessons, only in communal areas.

The school I work at have been doing that since September anyway and I assumed most others were.

My daughter's school implemented it this week - basically for walking in the corridors to and from lessons.

They implemented a rule in September that corridors are for teachers only and students need to move around outside so it's pretty much irrelevant!!

[RedArmy]

15 hours ago, whelk said:

Are Southampton City Council going to spin up those cycle lanes again?

I would rather they made the itchen bridge free for the 4 weeks but judging by the number of vehicles on the roads today it’s business as usual so they won’t want to lose the money. 

[Weston Super Saint]

On 01/11/2020 at 11:52, egg said:

It's staggering that 9 months or so into this that there are people who still view the effects of Covid as living or dying. Don't have an opinion when you're plainly don't understand the subject. 

FFS, 9 months or so into this and the bloody Prime Minister AND the Chief Executive of the NHS are holding a press conference on live TV broadcasting to the entire nation and talking about the binary options of living and dying.

They really shouldn't have an opinion when they plainly don't understand the subject.  Idiots.

As for the slogan; "stay home, protect the NHS, save lives", jeez, that's just as bad!

[egg]

36 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

FFS, 9 months or so into this and the bloody Prime Minister AND the Chief Executive of the NHS are holding a press conference on live TV broadcasting to the entire nation and talking about the binary options of living and dying.

They really shouldn't have an opinion when they plainly don't understand the subject.  Idiots.

As for the slogan; "stay home, protect the NHS, save lives", jeez, that's just as bad!

Covid has either 1. no symptoms, 2.mild symptoms, 3. bad symptoms with complications, or 4. it kills. It's that simple. 

Dinlo's assume that 1 or 2 are as bad as it gets, unless you're really unlucky and you die. The sad reality is that many people end up with number 3. I know such people. 

Sure, it's live or die, but it's what you may have to live with if you live. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Covid has either 1. no symptoms, 2.mild symptoms, 3. bad symptoms with complications, or 4. it kills. It's that simple. 

Dinlo's assume that 1 or 2 are as bad as it gets, unless you're really unlucky and you die. The sad reality is that many people end up with number 3. I know such people. 

Sure, it's live or die, but it's what you may have to live with if you live. 

It’s also fair to say thought that the younger And/or healthy you are the more likely you are to have 1 or 2 if you get it. I know about 20 people that have had it about half of them in Europe and half here aged between 23 and 70, the oldest one  (who is also overweight) still has breathing issues now 5 months on, The younger ones or and a guy in his 50s who is a marathon runner all recovered quickly and one didn’t even know he had it (another very fit guy in his late 40s) got tested due to playing golf with someone who had it. Obviously there will be anomalies to this but that seems to be how it works

[The Cat]

9 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I would rather they made the itchen bridge free for the 4 weeks but judging by the number of vehicles on the roads today it’s business as usual so they won’t want to lose the money. 

I was surprised they were still charging this morning. I drove from Hamble to town, then town to Southwick and there were way more people on the roads than I expected. On the way home though it was reasonably light, especially at Windhover. 

[The Cat]

11 hours ago, Barry the Badger said:

Secondary school kids and not in lessons, only in communal areas.

The school I work at have been doing that since September anyway and I assumed most others were.

Hamble haven't been until now. 

Had an email at work this afternoon encouraging people to do similar and wear them when moving around our estate. 

[egg]

12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

It’s also fair to say thought that the younger And/or healthy you are the more likely you are to have 1 or 2 if you get it. I know about 20 people that have had it about half of them in Europe and half here aged between 23 and 70, the oldest one  (who is also overweight) still has breathing issues now 5 months on, The younger ones or and a guy in his 50s who is a marathon runner all recovered quickly and one didn’t even know he had it (another very fit guy in his late 40s) got tested due to playing golf with someone who had it. Obviously there will be anomalies to this but that seems to be how it works

I don't disagree with that. The issue though is that there are anomalies. I only know 2 people with long Covid. One mid/late 40's and the other 50. Both in good shape pre Covid. The first is left with arthritis and her latest fb update says:

"As we go into the 2nd lockdown I can't help but post my thoughts & feelings whether you appreciate them or not. 

This photo is me a few days ago.
I'm happy, healthy and content and back doing the job I love. As you can see I'm wearing a wrist brace on the advice of my consultant at SGH as I had an appointment a few weeks back and it was confirmed that I have nerve damage in 2 nerves in my wrist due to the secondary infections I suffered as a result of Covid-19. 

I am currently awaiting an appointment for tteatment in both nerves in my wrist so I can then come off these terrible tablets I take daily in order to stay pain free.

Let me be a lesson to you all. The virus is real. The virus doesn't care if you are healthy or not. The virus can cause irreversible damage. 
Wash your hands. Wear a mask and be mindful of your surroundings. Stay safe...🖤"

The second bloke is left with diabetes. 

I don't want number 3. 

 

[The Cat]

The long covid effects seem so random in that they hit people in such different ways.

I only know one person with it but she's not been right for nearly 6 months now, still struggles with breathing sometimes and generally feels really tired and lethargic.

[Weston Super Saint]

What is wrong with these morons?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54827535

Quote

Police have arrested at least 104 protesters during anti-lockdown demonstrations in central London.

Watch the 'sheep' start holding more 'protests' around the country tonight.  Should take their benefits / furlough money away rather than fine them.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What is wrong with these morons?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54827535

Watch the 'sheep' start holding more 'protests' around the country tonight.  Should take their benefits / furlough money away rather than fine them.

No taking the knee? A very different police approach to what we saw in the summer when BLM protesters also breached lockdown rules. Funny that. 

[skintsaint]

If you don't like the missus treat her to a nice Mink coat this Xmas :

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54818615

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What is wrong with these morons?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54827535

Watch the 'sheep' start holding more 'protests' around the country tonight.  Should take their benefits / furlough money away rather than fine them.

I’d go further and cart them off to Porton Down and do some drug trials.

[Weston Super Saint]

Either this lockdown lark is truly amazing and results can be seen in less than two days, or the measures put in place over the last month or two with respect to local lockdowns (the measures that the government didn't feel warranted inclusion in the calculations for their charts last weekend) are producing the results they were supposed to...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54841375 

Quote

The increase in coronavirus infections appears to be slowing around the UK, latest data from the Office for National Statistics show.

 

[Jimmy_D]

On 06/11/2020 at 17:00, Weston Super Saint said:

Either this lockdown lark is truly amazing and results can be seen in less than two days, or the measures put in place over the last month or two with respect to local lockdowns (the measures that the government didn't feel warranted inclusion in the calculations for their charts last weekend) are producing the results they were supposed to...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54841375 

 

The rate of increase has been slowing. That means it’s still increasing, which eventually will overwhelm the NHS.

The local measures have been helping, but unfortunately not enough. Full lockdown last time worked to reverse the rate of infection (bringing r below 1) and unfortunately that’s needed again.

[Whitey Grandad]

40 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

The rate of increase has been slowing. That means it’s still increasing, which eventually will overwhelm the NHS.

The local measures have been helping, but unfortunately not enough. Full lockdown last time worked to reverse the rate of infection (bringing r below 1) and unfortunately that’s needed again.

You are of course assuming that it was the lockdown that reduced infections rather than the warmer weather.

[whelk]

I haven’t been out today but yesterday seemed very busy for a lockdown compared to back in March/April. Obviously schools traffic plays a part but is it deserted out there?

And judging by my family it is boom time for the takeaway business

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

I haven’t been out today but yesterday seemed very busy for a lockdown compared to back in March/April. Obviously schools traffic plays a part but is it deserted out there?

And judging by my family it is boom time for the takeaway business

Slightly quieter than a usual Saturday but still a surprising number of cars on the road - not really sure where they're all going with everything supposed to be closed.  They can't all be doing DIY and gardening, surely?  ( I was out on the bike exercising and not in the car).

[Jimmy_D]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

You are of course assuming that it was the lockdown that reduced infections rather than the warmer weather.

I’d imagine that probably helped. Unfortunately we don’t have that to help us at the moment, which is partly the reason they’ve chosen to impose the lockdown again.

[Turkish]

On 06/11/2020 at 17:00, Weston Super Saint said:

Either this lockdown lark is truly amazing and results can be seen in less than two days, or the measures put in place over the last month or two with respect to local lockdowns (the measures that the government didn't feel warranted inclusion in the calculations for their charts last weekend) are producing the results they were supposed to...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54841375 

 

Already past the second peak. Lockdown has worked wonders in just two days. Nice one Boris 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1357423/coronavirus-uk-news-latest-second-wave-peak-national-lockdown-covid19-infection-rate

Edited 7 November, 2020 by Turkish

[Weston Super Saint]

Nice one Wales, really following the 'science' I see!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54843624

Quote

The number of patients in Welsh hospitals with coronavirus is now the highest since the height of the pandemic in April - and areas like Merthyr Tydfil, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Blaenau Gwent have some of the worst Covid-19 infection rates in the UK.

Certainly looks like the perfect time to end the lockdown which was put in place to ensure the health service didn't become 'overwhelmed' 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nice one Wales, really following the 'science' I see!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54843624

Certainly looks like the perfect time to end the lockdown which was put in place to ensure the health service didn't become 'overwhelmed' 

Do you think that the strain on the health service will reduce or increase if we can all mingle and do as we please? Straightforward answer please. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Do you think that the strain on the health service will reduce or increase if we can all mingle and do as we please? Straightforward answer please. 

Not really sure your question is relevant to my post is it?