Coronavirus

[Weston Super Saint]

16 minutes ago, egg said:

It's staggering that 9 months or so into this that there are people who still view the effects of Covid as living or dying. Don't have an opinion when you're plainly don't understand the subject. 

If the other issues were significant surely they would be included on the COBR presentations rather than the current binary options of death and no death....

 

[Whitey Grandad]

14 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

So the potential for an extra 450 cancer deaths per day upsets you but an extra 3,500 Covid deaths doesn’t?

That’s extra cancer deaths every day over a period of several years. Life is a terminal condition and people die every day. At this time of year it is typically 12,000 a day rising to 15,000 in January. These Covid deaths are not on top of these figures, they are part of them in that people will die of Covid instead of something else.

The average age of someone dying in the UK from Covid is over 82. I am 71 now and I would like to get some more living of life under my belt in the next few years.

[buctootim]

32 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s extra cancer deaths every day over a period of several years. Life is a terminal condition and people die every day. At this time of year it is typically 12,000 a day rising to 15,000 in January. These Covid deaths are not on top of these figures, they are part of them in that people will die of Covid instead of something else.

The average age of someone dying in the UK from Covid is over 82. I am 71 now and I would like to get some more living of life under my belt in the next few years.

Don't worry Whitey - if you've already made it to 71 you'll live till 84 and 7 months on average!

https://www.annuityadvantage.com/resources/life-expectancy-tables/ 

[buctootim]

For all other conditions NICE uses QALYS - Quality Adjusted Life Years Saved but that isnt happening for COVID. That means that instead of directing resources to where they will have most benefit we are re-orienting the NHS to focus on saving the life of a critically ill COVID patient, usually 80 years old + in preference to treating a 35 year cancer patient mother with two young kids. That is aside from all the economic and social turbulence / destruction.  

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

Don't worry Whitey - if you've already made it to 71 you'll live till 84 and 7 months on average!

https://www.annuityadvantage.com/resources/life-expectancy-tables/ 

Thanks,  but have you taken into account my physical condition?

[Verbal]

So there's more than a remote possibility that the UK will crash out of the EU while it's in a national lockdown for coronavirus.

Good luck with that. 

[Wes Tender]

1 minute ago, Verbal said:

So there's more than a remote possibility that the UK will crash out of the EU while it's in a national lockdown for coronavirus.

Good luck with that. 

I'm sure that you remoaners will grasp any straw you can that our departure will be delayed again and again. That bitter has-been Gauke was saying much the same thing in the last day or so too. Of course, the same implications of a no deal conclusion to the talks during the period of the lockdown because of the Chinese virus affects the EU as much, if not more than it affects us. So if they decide to be sensible and accept our red lines over fisheries, the level playing field rules and that the ECJ has no jurisdiction over our laws, the FTA can be agreed quite quickly to the benefit of all.

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

 So if they decide to be sensible and accept our red lines over fisheries, the level playing field rules and that the ECJ has no jurisdiction over our laws, the FTA can be agreed quite quickly to the benefit of all.

Always the optimist 😉

[Verbal]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

I'm sure that you remoaners will grasp any straw you can that our departure will be delayed again and again. That bitter has-been Gauke was saying much the same thing in the last day or so too. Of course, the same implications of a no deal conclusion to the talks during the period of the lockdown because of the Chinese virus affects the EU as much, if not more than it affects us. So if they decide to be sensible and accept our red lines over fisheries, the level playing field rules and that the ECJ has no jurisdiction over our laws, the FTA can be agreed quite quickly to the benefit of all.

One ad hominem sneer after another. That's all you have.  Have you got anything to actually say?

One other startling fact: many of the same companies that have just been warned by Johnson and Gove to do much more to prepare for no deal are from Thursday being closed for at least four weeks and - judging by this government's record - far longer.  How's that going to work?

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Verbal said:

One ad hominem sneer after another. That's all you have.  Have you got anything to actually say?

One other startling fact: many of the same companies that have just been warned by Johnson and Gove to do much more to prepare for no deal are from Thursday being closed for at least four weeks and - judging by this government's record - far longer.  How's that going to work?

Will being closed give then more time to prepare?

[Turkish]

Apparently Sheffield Hallam Uni have done a study on the risk of catching Covid in gyms. There have been just 487 infections reported in 62 million gym visits across 14 European countries studied, an infection rate of just 0.78 per 100k. Given the push they had on healthy living and getting exercise as fitness and weight loss can help to combat the virus not to mention the positive impact exercise has on mental health it's crazy they are now shutting gyms, golf clubs etc. It seems like they are one of the safest places to be as well as doing what the government told us all to do only a few months ago.

[egg]

42 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Apparently Sheffield Hallam Uni have done a study on the risk of catching Covid in gyms. There have been just 487 infections reported in 62 million gym visits across 14 European countries studied, an infection rate of just 0.78 per 100k. Given the push they had on healthy living and getting exercise as fitness and weight loss can help to combat the virus not to mention the positive impact exercise has on mental health it's crazy they are now shutting gyms, golf clubs etc. It seems like they are one of the safest places to be as well as doing what the government told us all to do only a few months ago.

Yep, nuts. Gyms I've been in have loads of space and are safe environments. Even more ridiculous is closing things like outdoor boot camps. How things like that, or a couple of blokes playing golf outside, is deemed a Covid risk is beyond me. 

[The Cat]

It's ridiculous that kids can go to school and spend all day in a classroom but then can't go out onto the field after school and play sport together. 

Outdoor exercise should be encouraged whether it's in groups or not. If gyms are producing such a low infection rate then outdoor sports, even contact based ones, would surely be producing even less. 

 

[Turkish]

42 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep, nuts. Gyms I've been in have loads of space and are safe environments. Even more ridiculous is closing things like outdoor boot camps. How things like that, or a couple of blokes playing golf outside, is deemed a Covid risk is beyond me. 

Apparently the PGA and golf England have a meeting with the government tomorrow, hopefully they will see sense and allow clubs to stay open. My club has lost a fortune this year and there is such a small risk of playing golf it’s crazy. Apparently over 200k have signed the petition to keep them open.

the CrossFit gym I go to couldn’t be safer either. Everyone has to temperate Check And sanitise when they go in, we have own stations all marked with all equipment in and maximum class of 10, despite capacity for 25. Afterwards everyone santisizes everything in their station. We’ve had zero infections.

Edited 1 November, 2020 by Turkish

[Lord Duckhunter]

Looks like Nige is back to scare some backbone into backbench Tories. 
 

 

 

Edited 1 November, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[Whitey Grandad]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

That’s extra cancer deaths every day over a period of several years. Life is a terminal condition and people die every day. At this time of year it is typically 12,000 a day rising to 15,000 in January. These Covid deaths are not on top of these figures, they are part of them in that people will die of Covid instead of something else.

The average age of someone dying in the UK from Covid is over 82. I am 71 now and I would like to get some more living of life under my belt in the next few years.

Oops. That should have been 12,000 deaths a week, not per day. 😬

[Weston Super Saint]

Are we allowed to question the efficacy of mask wearing yet?

In Feb and March, I doubt many households in the country even owned a mask, let alone considered wearing one.  Since July they have been a compulsory part of daily life, but infection rates are rising 5 times quicker than they did during the previous wave.

 

Is it time to consider that this 'control' measure is not working, do some proper investigation into how the virus spreads rather than take the lazy option, then put measures in place that will be effective?

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are we allowed to question the efficacy of mask wearing yet?

In Feb and March, I doubt many households in the country even owned a mask, let alone considered wearing one.  Since July they have been a compulsory part of daily life, but infection rates are rising 5 times quicker than they did during the previous wave.

 

Is it time to consider that this 'control' measure is not working, do some proper investigation into how the virus spreads rather than take the lazy option, then put measures in place that will be effective?

That's a good idea. I wonder why all those scientists all over the world haven't thought about how the virus spreads. If only they had thought about it. 

Its a good job that a village idiot like you who sweeps the floor in a cafe is on the ball. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are we allowed to question the efficacy of mask wearing yet?

In Feb and March, I doubt many households in the country even owned a mask, let alone considered wearing one.  Since July they have been a compulsory part of daily life, but infection rates are rising 5 times quicker than they did during the previous wave.

 

Is it time to consider that this 'control' measure is not working, do some proper investigation into how the virus spreads rather than take the lazy option, then put measures in place that will be effective?

Do you wear a mask at all times ? Do people walking around shops etc wear masks and absolutely maintain 2 metres 'social distancing' ? Do all people wear eye covering, ( a route for nfection ), ?

How much more testing is now being done compared to 6 mnths ago, and how effective is it compared to then. ( Remember Trump's statement that "if we don't test we'll have no cases" ).

Edited 2 November, 2020 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Looks like Nige is back to scare some backbone into backbench Tories. 
 

 

 

Self centered attention seeking berk.

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are we allowed to question the efficacy of mask wearing yet?

In Feb and March, I doubt many households in the country even owned a mask, let alone considered wearing one.  Since July they have been a compulsory part of daily life, but infection rates are rising 5 times quicker than they did during the previous wave.

 

Is it time to consider that this 'control' measure is not working, do some proper investigation into how the virus spreads rather than take the lazy option, then put measures in place that will be effective?

Maybe the positive test rate would have been even higher this time around without masks? I guess we'll never know and therefore attempts at comparison are ultimately futile...

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Are we allowed to question the efficacy of mask wearing yet?

In Feb and March, I doubt many households in the country even owned a mask, let alone considered wearing one.  Since July they have been a compulsory part of daily life, but infection rates are rising 5 times quicker than they did during the previous wave.

 

Is it time to consider that this 'control' measure is not working, do some proper investigation into how the virus spreads rather than take the lazy option, then put measures in place that will be effective?

There have been plenty of proper investigations you bell-end.

This is worth a read.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

 

 

Edited 2 November, 2020 by aintforever

[aintforever]

10 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Looks like Nige is back to scare some backbone into backbench Tories. 
 

 

 

Pandering to the thick as fuck as usual.

Just need a catchy 3 word slogan and we will have those nightclubs open again, who cares what experts say.

[RedArmy]

22 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The latest Imperial study puts it at 1.15% for developed countries :

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207273/covid-19-deaths-infection-fatality-ratio-about/

Using that would mean we would need close to 400,000 new infections every day to produce 4,000 deaths - that's with an R rate of 1.  Looks even more ludicrous when you use that percentage....

Do you practice being thick or does it come natural to you? 

[badgerx16]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Pandering to the thick as fuck as usual.

Just need a catchy 3 word slogan and we will have those nightclubs open again, who cares what experts say.

It's strange how there seems to be a correlation between those thinkng the lockdown is unwarranted and those who support Brexit. No doubt they will claim that they are 'free thinkers' who can see through the BS.

[buctootim]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

Pandering to the thick as fuck as usual.

Just need a catchy 3 word slogan and we will have those nightclubs open again, who cares what experts say.

 “Don’t spunk £25bn on right wing cronies, let’s spend the money on the NHS instead“

Edited 2 November, 2020 by buctootim

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

It's strange how there seems to be a correlation between those thinkng the lockdown is unwarranted and those who support Brexit. No doubt they will claim that they are 'free thinkers' who can see through the BS.

Also a weird correlation between them and climate change denial.

[Tamesaint]

After the 2016 election Farage stayed in the States and hung around Trump his new best buddy like a bad smell. He was filmed "having dinner with Trump". Well at least he was in the same room as the orange one.

If he is now back here rallying the gormless I guess that even "the  King of Europe" is not holding out much hope for Trump's re election. 

 

 

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Do you wear a mask at all times ? Do people walking around shops etc wear masks and absolutely maintain 2 metres 'social distancing' ? Do all people wear eye covering, ( a route for nfection ), ?

How much more testing is now being done compared to 6 mnths ago, and how effective is it compared to then. ( Remember Trump's statement that "if we don't test we'll have no cases" ).

I do wear a mask at all times in situations where the law demands I should.  I also maintain social distancing of a minimum of 1 metre - however, I will increase this to two metres on the times when I have to visit Wales as per the regulations.

I (I'm not sure about 'all people') do not wear eye covering as this is not currently required by law.  I do have glasses though which will provide a modicum of protection.

Ah, good, I'm glad you brought up the testing comment and the fact we are testing more now than we used to.  You have, however, fallen into the same trap as everyone else when it comes to testing figures and have completely ignored the 'death rate' (I know Egg will remind us there's more to it than just deaths), which is currently claimed to peak at twice what it did in March / April.  So yes, it's very true that because we are carrying out more tests we are finding more cases of the virus, but how do you square that with the current prediction regarding deaths?  Surely more deaths means that more people are being infected than previously and that is despite the masks being compulsory?  Unless you feel that the virus has mutated to become far more deadly now?

Edited 2 November, 2020 by Weston Super Saint

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, RedArmy said:

Do you practice being thick or does it come natural to you? 

Do you dispute the study from Imperial College or just not understand what they are saying?

[Weston Super Saint]

.

Edited 2 November, 2020 by Weston Super Saint
Duplicate

[wadesmith]

On 01/11/2020 at 11:52, egg said:

It's staggering that 9 months or so into this that there are people who still view the effects of Covid as living or dying. Don't have an opinion when you're plainly don't understand the subject. 

I’ve probably completely misunderstood your post..& apologies if I have..but what are the other options apart from living or dying?

[egg]

13 minutes ago, wadesmith said:

I’ve probably completely misunderstood your post..& apologies if I have..but what are the other options apart from living or dying?

Lazy choice of words from me, but focusing on either dying or living but with an assumed full recovery misses the point of what some people have to live with post covid. If, for example, the death rate is 1%, that does not mean that 99% make a full recovery. My point at it's simplest is that we need to understand what we may have to live with. 

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, aintforever said:

Pandering to the thick as fuck as usual.

Just need a catchy 3 word slogan and we will have those nightclubs open again, who cares what experts say.

Coronavirus, dont believe the hype TV advert with images of smiling faces, full football stadiums, pubs and bustling his streets with Public Enemy loud as the tune. 

Edited 2 November, 2020 by Turkish

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I do wear a mask at all times in situations where the law demands I should.  I also maintain social distancing of a minimum of 1 metre - however, I will increase this to two metres on the times when I have to visit Wales as per the regulations.

 

My point is that if you are simply walking down a street most people will not be 2 metres away from you, if only in passing, and in the open air you will not be wearing a mask as you don't have to. There is evidence that small droplets containg the virus can spread at least 8 metres, and you could quite easily be walking 7 or 8 feet behind somebody breathing out the virus, so following the guidance is not going to protect you or anybody else if there is no lockdown in place limiting the numbers of people 'out and about'.

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

My point is that if you are simply walking down a street most people will not be 2 metres away from you, if only in passing, and in the open air you will not be wearing a mask as you don't have to. There is evidence that small droplets containg the virus can spread at least 8 metres, and you could quite easily be walking 7 or 8 feet behind somebody breathing out the virus, so following the guidance is not going to protect you or anybody else if there is no lockdown in place limiting the numbers of people 'out and about'.

But it's also the length of exposure. Just walking past someone the exposure if likely to be fleeting and the amount of virus is likely to be small whereas, in a crowded building like a pub, you could be constantly exposed for a much longer time. 

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, ecuk268 said:

But it's also the length of exposure. Just walking past someone the exposure if likely to be fleeting and the amount of virus is likely to be small whereas, in a crowded building like a pub, you could be constantly exposed for a much longer time. 

Not forgetting buses and trains where you don't need to even share your journey with an infected person as their "droplets" will still be on surfaces and in the air, whilst they could be long gone.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, ecuk268 said:

But it's also the length of exposure. Just walking past someone the exposure if likely to be fleeting and the amount of virus is likely to be small whereas, in a crowded building like a pub, you could be constantly exposed for a much longer time. 

True. But nobody seems to know the loading dose, so walking behind an infected person for 20 yards may well be enough. There are too many unknowns, and holes in the logic of the guidance, to merely dismiss things so glibly as some people seem to be doing.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

True. But nobody seems to know the loading dose, so walking behind an infected person for 20 yards may well be enough. There are too many unknowns, and holes in the logic of the guidance, to merely dismiss things so glibly as some people seem to be doing.

I'm assuming that's aimed at me.

How about looking at it from the perspective that it is not dismissing things glibly but asking why we are not looking for reasons why the virus continues to spread unchecked despite people following the mandatory rules out in place. Maybe wearing masks really is giving people a false sense of security so they are not paying attention to ask the other things they could be doing to stop the spread? Maybe people are wearing their single use masks more than they should and they have become ineffective? 

Or we could just carry on pretending that wearing a mask is the solution to the problem despite the statistics that appear not to support this.

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I'm assuming that's aimed at me.

 

Not necessarily, but as the saying goes ""If the cap fits...".

 

As for the rest of your post, what do you think would be the effect if the Government came out and said that none of their guidance/ precautions were necessary any more ?

 

[Weston Super Saint]

31 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Not necessarily, but as the saying goes ""If the cap fits...".

 

As for the rest of your post, what do you think would be the effect if the Government came out and said that none of their guidance/ precautions were necessary any more ?

 

Who's suggesting that?  

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

It's strange how there seems to be a correlation between those thinkng the lockdown is unwarranted and those who support Brexit. 

It’s strange that there seems to be a correlation between those who voted remain & the stay at home wankers who pretend to care for the working man, but don’t really give a fuck. 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

My point is that if you are simply walking down a street most people will not be 2 metres away from you, if only in passing, and in the open air you will not be wearing a mask as you don't have to. There is evidence that small droplets containg the virus can spread at least 8 metres, and you could quite easily be walking 7 or 8 feet behind somebody breathing out the virus, so following the guidance is not going to protect you or anybody else if there is no lockdown in place limiting the numbers of people 'out and about'.

You are very unlikely to contract the virus out in the open air. Indoors, long exposure, poor ventilation That’s what you need to avoid.

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

Or we could just carry on pretending that wearing a mask is the solution to the problem despite the statistics that appear not to support this.

I haven’t seen a single person claim masks were the solution. They just obviously help and I’m not sure there are any stats that prove otherwise.

Here’s a stat, South Korea, who wore masks from day 1: deaths 468. UK who didn’t: 46,857.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I haven’t seen a single person claim masks were the solution. They just obviously help and I’m not sure there are any stats that prove otherwise.

Here’s a stat, South Korea, who wore masks from day 1: deaths 468. UK who didn’t: 46,857.

 

Presumably you've missed the point once again 

I am not talking about from day 1, I'm talking about since mid July when masks were compulsory!

But hey, let's carry on with your analogy and look at some more stats :

The UK has been wearing masks since mid July but have also had 1,352 deaths in the last FIVE days! 

Maybe South Korea are doing something else (as well as wearing masks) that is stopping people from dying?  Maybe that other thing they are doing is far more effective...

[trousers]

Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

 

The UK has been wearing masks since mid July but have also had 1,352 deaths in the last FIVE days! 

How does that figure compare to the number of deaths we would have had in the same five day period if mask wearing hadn't happened...?

[badgerx16]

40 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s strange that there seems to be a correlation between those who voted remain & the stay at home wankers who pretend to care for the working man, but don’t really give a fuck. 

Touchy.

[aintforever]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Presumably you've missed the point once again 

I am not talking about from day 1, I'm talking about since mid July when masks were compulsory!

But hey, let's carry on with your analogy and look at some more stats :

The UK has been wearing masks since mid July but have also had 1,352 deaths in the last FIVE days! 

Maybe South Korea are doing something else (as well as wearing masks) that is stopping people from dying?  Maybe that other thing they are doing is far more effective...

Your stat is meaningless, maybe without masks there would be 2,000 plus deaths?

My point about South Korea is that they clearly know what they are doing. They learned their lessons from the Mers pandemic so surely the wise thing to do would be to learn from them no?

 If wearing masks made things worse, as you say, why do they do it and have such good results?

[Lord Duckhunter]

27 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I haven’t seen a single person claim masks were the solution. They just obviously help and I’m not sure there are any stats that prove otherwise.

Here’s a stat, South Korea, who wore masks from day 1: deaths 468. UK who didn’t: 46,857.

 

Why were hospital staff at the snap dragons hospital  issued with a 3 page email detailing how to wear masks properly and how to dispose of them. It was stated that continued touching of mask & continued pulling  it on and off would be worse for you general health,  than not wearing one. It also clearly stated that anyone not disposing of masks correctly, would be increasing the risk of infecting their colleagues. This wasn’t just clinical staff, but everyone. 
 

Do you think the general public wear & dispose of masks correctly? And if not, surely that’s worse for their general health & increasing the risk of infecting others? 

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Your stat is meaningless, maybe without masks there would be 2,000 plus deaths?

My point about South Korea is that they clearly know what they are doing. They learned their lessons from the Mers pandemic so surely the wise thing to do would be to learn from them no?

 If wearing masks made things worse, as you say, why do they do it and have such good results?

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-how-south-koreas-track-and-trace-system-has-kept-death-count-below-500-12103124

 

excellent track and trace