Coronavirus

[The Kraken]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The simple answer is / was to wait for your holiday provider to cancel - or, as in some cases, materially change the aspects of the holiday which again would mean you were entitled to a full refund (re-booking is/was also available for anyone choosing to do so).

I think this is the point being made. Batman (wrongly) claimed that it has been easy for people who have holidays booked for later in the year to just cancel them and get a refund. It’s simply not the case. As you say, refunds do become available but only when the holiday company cancels, usually it when they get very close To the date of travel and know what the FCO and host country restrictions are. Exactly the same for most flights, you could change dates of travel but getting a refund before the airline actually cancelled the flight wasn’t possible.

Refunds are happening but In most cases not, as was claimed, by choosing to Cancel back in March.

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

This is simply not true!

If your holiday was cancelled by the airline / holiday company due to Government restrictions on travel then you were legally entitled to a refund - I understand that some company's like Ryanair have tried to avoid paying refunds but that doesn't mean you don't have a legal right to one!

If, on the other hand, YOU cancelled your holiday (whether or not this was due to Government restrictions), then you have no right to a refund.

The simple answer is / was to wait for your holiday provider to cancel - or, as in some cases, materially change the aspects of the holiday which again would mean you were entitled to a full refund (re-booking is/was also available for anyone choosing to do so).

Correct. I really don’t understand the confusion. 
 

If your flight is still flying and your hotel still open, you have no right o a refund regardless of Government advise. However, you can claim on your travel insurance, provided you took it out pre virus or includes pandemic cover if you didn’t (unlikely). If the airline or hotel cancel, they legally owe you a refund. 
 

Companies are making it as awkward as possible for a refund, but legally have to. I used charge back to get mine back from Ryanair as the dicked me around so much. 
 

Anyone who has booked a holiday since March which isn’t refundable or has a free cancellation policy, is a fuckwit of the highest order. I won’t be booking a non refundable one for a good long time. 

Edited 31 July, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[The Kraken]

And before Batman pulls out his “well I cancelled mine and it was easy” card, yes, we know. But go onto any site like MoneySupermarket where they offer travel advice, and it’s quite clear that unless your holiday company or airline has what it terms a “generous” refund policy, the advice is not to cancel and wait for the holiday company/airline to cancel first.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

And before Batman pulls out his “well I cancelled mine and it was easy” card, yes, we know. But go onto any site like MoneySupermarket where they offer travel advice, and it’s quite clear that unless your holiday company or airline has what it terms a “generous” refund policy, the advice is not to cancel and wait for the holiday company/airline to cancel first.

Ryanair pushed us right to the limit. We were booked to go the Sat following lockdown. It was obvious we wouldn’t be flying but Ryanair kept sending emails reminding us to check in online. They also kept sending separate emails asking if we wanted to take advantage of a free amendment offer & move our flight. The snap dragon was insisting we changed it “before we lose our money”. I held firm and 24 hours before we were due to fly they cancelled, which meant I was due a refund. 

Edited 31 July, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[The Kraken]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Ryanair pushed us right to the limit. We were booked to go the Sat following lockdown. It was obvious we wouldn’t be flying but Ryanair kept sending emails reminding us to check in online. They also kept sending separate emails asking if we wanted to take advantage of a free amendment offer & move our flight. The snap dragon was insisting we changed it “before we lose our money”. I held firm and 24 hours before we were due to fly they cancelled. 

To be honest I had the same with EasyJet and BA for flights in April and May. Wasn’t until the day of the flight that it was formally cancelled, then the refund could get processed. EasyJet do their best to hide the link to a refund on their site too, it’s all pushed towards transferring dates. I got refunds through from both within about 4 weeks. I think Ryanair may be getting better with refunds, my aunt recently had her family’s refunds processed within a few weeks. She lost the hire car money paid up front though as the company said (rightly in law, I guess) that the car was available for her and she had taken the cheaper option that didn’t have a cancellation policy. Less than a hundred quid though so no biggy.

[whelk]

I can’t fault BA - cancelled and refunded me without having to ask. Car parking mob is a different matter
I use EasyJet but fck Ryanair. Yeah may save a few bob.

Having said that BA appear to be shafting their staff putting them on shitty contracts so not in hurry to use them.

Virgin are cunts too. Anyway good old British holiday this summer and looking forward to it
 

[The Kraken]

I’d happily not fly with Ryanair any time, but since the demise of FlyBe they’re the only way to use Southampton or Bournemouth to get to where I want to go (in this case Malaga), so needs must.

[Wes Tender]

34 minutes ago, whelk said:

I can’t fault BA - cancelled and refunded me without having to ask. Car parking mob is a different matter
I use EasyJet but fck Ryanair. Yeah may save a few bob.

Having said that BA appear to be shafting their staff putting them on shitty contracts so not in hurry to use them.

Virgin are cunts too. Anyway good old British holiday this summer and looking forward to it
 

Your hotel will be half full of illegal immigrants put there by Border Force, so it will feel as if you are abroad.😉

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

I can’t fault BA - cancelled and refunded me without having to ask. Car parking mob is a different matter
I use EasyJet but fck Ryanair. Yeah may save a few bob.

Having said that BA appear to be shafting their staff putting them on shitty contracts so not in hurry to use them.

Virgin are cunts too. Anyway good old British holiday this summer and looking forward to it
 

No doubt you'll be staying in a caravan

Looking forward to your feedback about your British holiday after you've experienced gridlocked Britain - expecially if you're heading to the South West!

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No doubt you'll be staying in a caravan

Looking forward to your feedback about your British holiday after you've experienced gridlocked Britain - expecially if you're heading to the South West!

You vastly underestimate my wealth😀

[Whitey Grandad]

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

This is simply not true!

If your holiday was cancelled by the airline / holiday company due to Government restrictions on travel then you were legally entitled to a refund - I understand that some company's like Ryanair have tried to avoid paying refunds but that doesn't mean you don't have a legal right to one!

If, on the other hand, YOU cancelled your holiday (whether or not this was due to Government restrictions), then you have no right to a refund.

The simple answer is / was to wait for your holiday provider to cancel - or, as in some cases, materially change the aspects of the holiday which again would mean you were entitled to a full refund (re-booking is/was also available for anyone choosing to do so).

Trains?

Eurotunnel?

Ferries?

It’s a very big world out there. Holiday companies are just a small part of it.

[badgerx16]

Was this justified ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-53613062

Personally I think this was extremely heavy handed.

[Weston Super Saint]

53 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Trains?

Eurotunnel?

Ferries?

It’s a very big world out there. Holiday companies are just a small part of it.

All of which would be covered by insurance which would be legally bound to pay out if / when the FCO issued travel advice not to go to a country!

[whelk]

11 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Was this justified ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-53613062

Personally I think this was extremely heavy handed.

 

11 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Was this justified ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-53613062

Personally I think this was extremely heavy handed.

On the surface yes seems very unfair. However you never know with these type of stories and she may have been warned and had attitude if fck you I’m doing it anyway.

[whelk]

When they know 4200 new cases last week do they have a clue about where these people are contracting? Seems all these measure are just signals rather than practically stemming the infection rate. Assume clusters of Leicester and northern sweatshops and the like not from the chilled section in Sainsbury’s. 

Also would be useful to know the profile of the 4200 - what percentage of that number are likely to need the NHS, and what are expected number of deaths?

Edited 1 August, 2020 by whelk

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

When they know 4200 new cases last week do they have a clue about where these people are contracting? Seems all these measure are just signals rather than practically stemming the infection rate. Assume clusters of Leicester and northern sweatshops and the like not from the chilled section in Sainsbury’s. 

Also would be useful to know the profile of the 4200 - what percentage of that number are likely to need the NHS, and what are expected number of deaths?

Surely the issue isn't necessarily whether those 4200 need NHS care, it's more about if they pass it onto someone who passes it onto someone that then needs NHS care. 

[whelk]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Surely the issue isn't necessarily whether those 4200 need NHS care, it's more about if they pass it onto someone who passes it onto someone that then needs NHS care. 

Of course multiplier effect is crucial. It was 3200 previous week so 1000 added. But why?  It isn’t going to be from a few fans watching snooker. 

[The Cat]

Is it because increased targeted testing is picking up more asymptomatic people?

One thing I don't understand is why the death figures that are released every day are still quite high. There were something like 9 deaths in hospital yesterday but 140 or so deaths announced. 

I know they are including anyone dying with covid on the figures but what is the motivation for doing so?

Is it because they don't trust the public not to start going out and having mass gatherings and spreading the virus? That's kind of happening anyway on beaches, in parks and gardens so not sure it's the overriding motivator. 

The government are keen to reopen the economy but announcing high death figures is only going to discourage people from going out and spending money. 

[whelk]

I heard that there is one person in Soton General hospital with it. Is it something like 5.1 per 100, 000 in Southampton so like 12 people.

If you were do your individual risk assessment you would consider it insignificant.

Most of us stopped trusting the govt after Cummings and now they are trying to put a lid on it but all too late. We don’t believe you or trust you.

 

[aintforever]

The moment Boris said Cummings’ country length Covid trip and 60 mile eye test drive was OK he destroyed any credibility the government had in enforcing these Covid rules.

When everyone knows they are happy to stand there and tell blatant lies why would anyone take notice?

[egg]

It's spreading because people aren't being careful. Complacency is rife. It's no more complicated than that.

I've just come from an outdoor bootcamp. 6 weeks ago people weren't going. Then they did. Initially they gave others a wide berth. Then they got closer. Today they're walking past each other inches apart breathing in each others (mine included) faces.

We should have just stuck to the 2m message and emphasised it. 

[whelk]

57 minutes ago, egg said:

It's spreading because people aren't being careful. Complacency is rife. It's no more complicated than that.

I've just come from an outdoor bootcamp. 6 weeks ago people weren't going. Then they did. Initially they gave others a wide berth. Then they got closer. Today they're walking past each other inches apart breathing in each others (mine included) faces.

We should have just stuck to the 2m message and emphasised it. 

Do you think if someone was at your boot camp who was infected that it would have spread?

[whelk]

Not exactly alarming out of control rise

 

 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

Do you think if someone was at your boot camp who was infected that it would have spread?

Who knows. Equipment is shared so it's possible from that, but anti bac available, some use it and some don't. Generally being there and exercising outside all but risk free imo, hence why I do it, but people walking past you at close proximity and breathing hard is riskier than people doing so at 2m. A bit of common sense and respect from people would help. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

It's spreading because people aren't being careful. Complacency is rife. It's no more complicated than that.

 

People are complacent because they've finally figured out that the chance of actually dying from the virus is ridiculously small - even more so for the under 30's - and only really starts to be significant from about 75 onwards.

Apparently the risk of dying for most people is about the same as taking a 250 mile drive.  Pretty insignificant for the vast majority of the country and deemed to be 'acceptable'.

[egg]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

People are complacent because they've finally figured out that the chance of actually dying from the virus is ridiculously small - even more so for the under 30's - and only really starts to be significant from about 75 onwards.

Apparently the risk of dying for most people is about the same as taking a 250 mile drive.  Pretty insignificant for the vast majority of the country and deemed to be 'acceptable'.

Chances of dying small, but I know young previously healthy people who will never be the same from it. 

People who are complacent aren't alive to the risks if it doesn't kill you. % wise the risks are low, granted, but having seen how 2 friends lives have been ruined, I won't join the complacent gang. 

[buctootim]

Gone up by 250% in a week in Southampton. Yes they are small numbers but if you dont check it at that rate with a few weeks you have thousands of new cases. 

Edited 1 August, 2020 by buctootim

[ecuk268]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

The moment Boris said Cummings’ country length Covid trip and 60 mile eye test drive was OK he destroyed any credibility the government had in enforcing these Covid rules.

When everyone knows they are happy to stand there and tell blatant lies why would anyone take notice?

Your'e being a bit harsh here. Everyone knows that the best way to check your eyesight is to load your wife and young child into a car and go off for a drive. If you don't kill anyone (or yourselves), then you must be OK.

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, egg said:

We should have just stuck to the 2m message and emphasised it. 

Agree. Its the simplest to do and and easiest for everybody to remember. 1.5 metres as used in other countries would be enough.   

[Batman]

23 hours ago, The Kraken said:

I think this is the point being made. Batman (wrongly) claimed that it has been easy for people who have holidays booked for later in the year to just cancel them and get a refund. It’s simply not the case. As you say, refunds do become available but only when the holiday company cancels, usually it when they get very close To the date of travel and know what the FCO and host country restrictions are. Exactly the same for most flights, you could change dates of travel but getting a refund before the airline actually cancelled the flight wasn’t possible.

Refunds are happening but In most cases not, as was claimed, by choosing to Cancel back in March.

if you cancel your holiday within the standard deposit period, you get a refund.

the deposit period is normally ends ~10 weeks prior to departure

I (and members of my extended family) easily cancelled our summer 2020 holiday's in March.  Little quibble (I say little, they tried offering me a deal to take a credit note, but I wanted my money back, which hit the credit card within 5 working days).

Edited 1 August, 2020 by Batman

[badgerx16]

Would you be happy for pubs to close again in order to allow schools to fully open ?

[The Cat]

I wonder if the uptick in infections in Southampton is because of the mass testing that's going on here?

[The Cat]

7 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Would you be happy for pubs to close again in order to allow schools to fully open ?

I would, but then I don't go to pubs very much. If I do go to them it's normally for a meal as well. 

[whelk]

3 hours ago, egg said:

Chances of dying small, but I know young previously healthy people who will never be the same from it. 

People who are complacent aren't alive to the risks if it doesn't kill you. % wise the risks are low, granted, but having seen how 2 friends lives have been ruined, I won't join the complacent gang. 

So you’ll be giving up going to boot camp?

[egg]

18 minutes ago, whelk said:

So you’ll be giving up going to boot camp?

No. 

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, Batman said:

if you cancel your holiday within the standard deposit period, you get a refund.

the deposit period is normally ends ~10 weeks prior to departure

I (and members of my extended family) easily cancelled our summer 2020 holiday's in March.  Little quibble (I say little, they tried offering me a deal to take a credit note, but I wanted my money back, which hit the credit card within 5 working days).

Again, you have a complete misconception that your own experience is how it is for absolutely everyone else. It isn’t. I’m not sure how you’re not grasping this, but I’ll try to help.

Tui are perhaps the leading travel agent in the country and they certainly don’t adhere to your theory.  Here’s their terms and conditions.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/booking/tandc?ptype=PDP

Thomas Cook are much the same.

http://1063457201.n137365.test.prositehosting.co.uk/general-booking-terms-and-conditions/

So with them, a cancellation long in advance would have meant a total loss of deposit.  I’m not going to trawl through other leading travel sites, it’s needless because it’s quite clear that the UKs two leading travel company don’t offer a no quibble refund. There’s also plenty of info out on there on sites telling customers that unless they have a “generous” refund policy (which many don’t) the advice is not to cancel as you’ll lose money.

And that doesn’t even take into account the large proportion of people that DIY their trips these days. As has been pointed out, refunds on flights generally aren’t available until the airline cancels them.

I really hope that clears it up and you can understand that, while you and your family did indeed get an easy and full refund, many other travellers did not have such a decent refund policy on their trip. And as such, the idea of cancelling back in March and not suffering a financial hit wasn’t as straight forward as you seem to believe.

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

I heard that there is one person in Soton General hospital with it. Is it something like 5.1 per 100, 000 in Southampton so like 12 people.

If you were do your individual risk assessment you would consider it insignificant.

Most of us stopped trusting the govt after Cummings and now they are trying to put a lid on it but all too late. We don’t believe you or trust you.

 

TBD that's positive tests so it sprobably more like 120 people but I take your point. 

[benjii]

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

People are complacent because they've finally figured out that the chance of actually dying from the virus is ridiculously small - even more so for the under 30's - and only really starts to be significant from about 75 onwards.

Apparently the risk of dying for most people is about the same as taking a 250 mile drive.  Pretty insignificant for the vast majority of the country and deemed to be 'acceptable'.

But individual logic doesn't apply at the level of complex systems, which is why it is important to have clear rules and clear control systems. 250 mile drive is low risk because of the way traffic is regulated and because most people clearly understand the system. 

[shurlock]

53 minutes ago, benjii said:

But individual logic doesn't apply at the level of complex systems, which is why it is important to have clear rules and clear control systems. 250 mile drive is low risk because of the way traffic is regulated and because most people clearly understand the system. 

Precisely. COVID-19 is a novel virus and there's plenty we still don't know about it. Indeed the more scientists learn about the virus, the more questions arise. We now know that it's not just a respiratory illness and it can ravage various major organs. We're also finding out that even people who are asymptomatic can suffer lung damage - whether this has long-term health consequences or not is by definition not fully understood. The usual suspects can't be helped -reducing a complex illness with a range of outcomes to the risk of dying is a case in point -never mind ignoring the externalities of individual behaviour. But thankfully most health experts -hence why they're experts- exhibit a bit more respect and humility in the face of uncertainty. 

Edited 1 August, 2020 by shurlock

[Batman]

4 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Again, you have a complete misconception that your own experience is how it is for absolutely everyone else. It isn’t. I’m not sure how you’re not grasping this, but I’ll try to help.

Tui are perhaps the leading travel agent in the country and they certainly don’t adhere to your theory.  Here’s their terms and conditions.

https://www.tui.co.uk/destinations/booking/tandc?ptype=PDP

Thomas Cook are much the same.

http://1063457201.n137365.test.prositehosting.co.uk/general-booking-terms-and-conditions/

So with them, a cancellation long in advance would have meant a total loss of deposit.  I’m not going to trawl through other leading travel sites, it’s needless because it’s quite clear that the UKs two leading travel company don’t offer a no quibble refund. There’s also plenty of info out on there on sites telling customers that unless they have a “generous” refund policy (which many don’t) the advice is not to cancel as you’ll lose money.

And that doesn’t even take into account the large proportion of people that DIY their trips these days. As has been pointed out, refunds on flights generally aren’t available until the airline cancels them.

I really hope that clears it up and you can understand that, while you and your family did indeed get an easy and full refund, many other travellers did not have such a decent refund policy on their trip. And as such, the idea of cancelling back in March and not suffering a financial hit wasn’t as straight forward as you seem to believe.

My in laws cancelled with TUI in March

Lost £150, just shy of £3k returned

Worth every penny given the state of the world

 

Booking a DIY holiday is always a risk, pandemic or not. I lost a booking via Hotels.Com once, due to being a tight arse and not choosing a booking with a cancellation policy.

Edited 1 August, 2020 by Batman

[The Kraken]

😂 just doesn’t understand it 😂

[Batman]

Just now, The Kraken said:

😂 just doesn’t understand it 😂

If you lost out, that out, that is your problem for being a tight arse, and/or a bit daft for not ensuring you have cover.

 

[The Kraken]

Just now, Batman said:

If you lost out, that out, that is your problem for being a tight arse, and/or a bit daft for not ensuring you have cover.

 

I didn’t lose anything fella. I’ve already said earlier that I got full refunds for my flights. It was pretty clear, or so I thought,

[whelk]

So pubs may have to close to let schools open. Yeah makes perfect sense. 

Time to fck over pub owners and workers again. Pissed away all the furlough money on loads that didn’t need it. Propped up loads of self employed many of whom could easily survive for a few months. 

[whelk]

Awaiting a 3 metre ruling as the ‘science improves’

 

[The Cat]

Lower the age you can buy alcohol in a pub to 12 and let all the kids go out and get pissed after school. 

Might as well start them off as alcoholics now. Most kids will end up one anyway considering they'll be the generation having to cope with the mess our one will leave them with. 😂

[Lord Duckhunter]

44 minutes ago, Batman said:

My in laws cancelled with TUI in March

Lost £150, just shy of £3k returned

Worth every penny given the state of the world

 

Booking a DIY holiday is always a risk, pandemic or not. I lost a booking via Hotels.Com once, due to being a tight arse and not choosing a booking with a cancellation policy.

Regardless of whether you had a cancellation policy or not, if the hotel is not available, you’re entitled yo a refund. If the Government advise against travel, your insurance will kick in. The only way you’ll lose money is if there’s no flights to the area, but the hotel is still open. However, chances are there’s no flights because of Government advice, so your insurance pays out. Of course if you think, fuck that I’m not going at the moment you’ll lose your money. 
 

This diy holiday being a risk, is pony. It’s no more of a risk than any travel agents, just a lot less  expensive. They’re  just arranging a diy holiday for you most of the time anyway.

Edited 1 August, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[Hockey_saint]

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Regardless of whether you had a cancellation policy or not, if the hotel is not available, you’re entitled yo a refund. If the Government advise against travel, your insurance will kick in. The only way you’ll lose money is if there’s no flights to the area, but the hotel is still open. However, chances are there’s no flights because of Government advice, so your insurance pays out. Of course if you think, fuck that I’m not going at the moment you’ll lose your money. 
 

This diy holiday being a risk, is pony. It’s no more of a risk than any travel agents, just a lot less  expensive. They’re  just arranging a diy holiday for you most of the time anyway.

Absolutely. And charging you a fortune in commission for the pleasure.

[Hockey_saint]

43 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Lower the age you can buy alcohol in a pub to 12 and let all the kids go out and get pissed after school. 

Might as well start them off as alcoholics now. Most kids will end up one anyway considering they'll be the generation having to cope with the mess our one will leave them with. 😂

I think we need a targeted schools approach for that one....

[The Kraken]

DIY is subject to whatever conditions you sign up to when you book. 
 

flights: you can buy a flex ticket that does refunds etc, but most don’t. They go for the cheaper option. And right.y so in most cases.

Accommodation: varied, but in my experience a lot of accom has a decent refund policy, booking.com certainly do.

hire car: again you can buy flexible options but lots don’t, often mostly rightly so.

I haven’t bought a package holiday for quite some time, but DIY is a bit more complicated and has a little more risk associated, I think it would be daft to say otherwise. But always worth doing IMO.