Coronavirus

[RedArmy]

The map of areas at risk of local lockdown looks remarkably similar to the 2019 election map. 
#notmyprimeminister 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Here are the top 10 areas for the virus & the areas most in danger of facing the same fate as Leicester.

There appears to be a pattern, however, it’s not one anyone will talk about. 

 

 

 

[The Cat]

Apart from Bedford they are all northern. Including Bedford they are all pretty grim.

What's the connection? Did they all vote leave and have Tory MP's?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just now, The Cat said:

Apart from Bedford they are all northern. Including Bedford they are all pretty grim.

What's the connection? Did they all vote leave and have Tory MP's?

Yes, that’s it.

Nothing to do with their religion at all. 

[whelk]

Bradford maybe next.

Weird that only Guardian seems to have talked about PHE making the link to Asian communities.

Heaven forbid that it ever gets mentioned on tv news. 
 

[skintsaint]

Getting a 2nd spike here in Victoria. Opened things up too early. Luckily live in WA which has hard borders to the rest of the country and we are pretty much fully open now.

Apparently one of the issues with the quarantine in Victoria of overseas travelers coming back, was the security staff at the hotel nobbing the guests.....

Edited 2 July, 2020 by skintsaint

[rallyboy]

Nobbing is a great word that really should get more use.

Sounds like it should be a village in Dorset.

Little Nobbing, Great Nobbing.

Or should it be knobbing?

Discuss.

[rallyboy]

Nobbing is a great word that really should get more use.

Sounds like it should be a village in Dorset.

Little Nobbing, Great Nobbing.

Or should it be knobbing?

Discuss.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Wasn’t funny the first time. 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, rallyboy said:

Nobbing is a great word that really should get more use.

Sounds like it should be a village in Dorset.

Little Nobbing, Great Nobbing.

Or should it be knobbing?

Discuss.

Can't find any Nobbings but there's a Nob End (near 'Little Lever' as it happens....) if that's any good? 

 

Edited 2 July, 2020 by trousers

[badgerx16]

Contrary to both UK and Greek guidelines, BoJo's father flies to Greece to "Covid proof a holiday home".

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Contrary to both UK and Greek guidelines, BoJo's father flies to Greece to "Covid proof a holiday home".

So you’re damning someone for the sins of their father. 
 

The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

So you’re damning someone for the sins of their father. 
 

The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

 

“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin. "

[Tamesaint]

So Priti's quarantine plan which came in 3 months too late is now discarded for half of the world after a couple of weeks. That woman is really vacant.

Has there ever been a more inept Home Secretary?  At least though with her knowledge of numbers we should be grateful she is not the Chancellor.

 

[whelk]

The whole lot of them are inept. This is what you get when you want subservient stooges to run the country.

We change from being at war with Eurasia to Oceania overnight

 

[RedArmy]

3 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

So Priti's quarantine plan which came in 3 months too late is now discarded for half of the world after a couple of weeks. That woman is really vacant.

Has there ever been a more inept Home Secretary?  At least though with her knowledge of numbers we should be grateful she is not the Chancellor.

 

Theresa May 

[ecuk268]

On 02/07/2020 at 10:04, rallyboy said:

Nobbing is a great word that really should get more use.

Sounds like it should be a village in Dorset.

Little Nobbing, Great Nobbing.

Or should it be knobbing?

Discuss.

Isn't it Boris Johnson's hobby?

[Chapel End]

https://mobile.twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1278672584930758656

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Chapel End said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/bydonkeys/status/1278672584930758656

Boris and Dom still " playing a blinder".

[Delmary]

Sh#t. This is not good. Might explain why there is a mad rush for Industrial/health HEPA air filtration systems.

 

Edited 5 July, 2020 by Delmary

[Wes Tender]

On 04/07/2020 at 13:41, badgerx16 said:

Boris and Dom still " playing a blinder".

So what are the Tw*tterati going to do about it? It's good that they have this escape valve of venting their spleens on Tw atter, otherwise I worry that their poor, tiny little heads might explode.

[badgerx16]

7 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

So what are the Tw*tterati going to do about it? It's good that they have this escape valve of venting their spleens on Tw atter, otherwise I worry that their poor, tiny little heads might explode.

Do you think the Government has managed the Coronavirus situation well, adequately, or poorly ?

[Wes Tender]

13 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Do you think the Government has managed the Coronavirus situation well, adequately, or poorly ?

I think that generally they have done adequately. The main objective was to ensure that the NHS was not overwhelmed, and it wasn't. The trouble is that there might well be a further spike now, because of the idiocy of many, who attended protest marches, raves and who packed the beaches like sardines, all with no care for distancing rules. 

[RedArmy]

1 hour ago, Wes Tender said:

I think that generally they have done adequately. The main objective was to ensure that the NHS was not overwhelmed, and it wasn't. The trouble is that there might well be a further spike now, because of the idiocy of many, who attended protest marches, raves and who packed the beaches like sardines, all with no care for distancing rules. 

Surely the main objective is to save lives? Which they very clearly failed at. 

[CB Fry]

9 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Surely the main objective is to save lives? Which they very clearly failed at. 

Les's main objective is to parrot back whatever horseshit the government has laid out for him.

Looks like he's been beautifully primed to trot out the "blame the irresponsible public" routine on command as well. Such a good obedient chap.

[shurlock]

28 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Surely the main objective is to save lives? Which they very clearly failed at. 

Precisely - the line tends to be peddled by halfwits who still think that all countries are likely to end up in a similar place. That is, the only difference between them will be when and how deaths and hospitalisations are spread across the health system. 

Edited 6 July, 2020 by shurlock

[Weston Super Saint]

59 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

Surely the main objective is to save lives? Which they very clearly failed at. 

How could more lives be saved - I guess this will be key for spike part two?

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, CB Fry said:

Les's main objective is to parrot back whatever horseshit the government has laid out for him.

Looks like he's been beautifully primed to trot out the "blame the irresponsible public" routine on command as well. Such a good obedient chap.

I'm perfectly capable of reading opinions on it from numerous sources and forming my own opinion, thanks. Perhaps you would care to apportion the blame yourself if there is a spike in cases later in the year. Do you think that there was any point at all in social distancing measures these past three months if they are going to be thrown out of the window by mass irresponsible behaviour by idiotic berks? It really puts everything into perspective when certain individuals are castigated by the media for breaching those guidelines, and then the masses do it and the media just seems to shrug their shoulders.

[CB Fry]

42 minutes ago, Wes Tender said:

I'm perfectly capable of reading opinions on it from numerous sources and forming my own opinion, thanks. Perhaps you would care to apportion the blame yourself if there is a spike in cases later in the year. Do you think that there was any point at all in social distancing measures these past three months if they are going to be thrown out of the window by mass irresponsible behaviour by idiotic berks? It really puts everything into perspective when certain individuals are castigated by the media for breaching those guidelines, and then the masses do it and the media just seems to shrug their shoulders.

For someone claiming to read "numerous sources" its interesting that the only variable you have any interest in whatsoever is the assumed irresponsibility of the general public.

Do your numerous sources not mention anything else, like decisions the government of the day might make?

Edited 6 July, 2020 by CB Fry

[Wes Tender]

9 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

For someone claiming to read "numerous sources" its interesting that the only variable you have any interest in whatsoever is the assumed irresponsibility of the general public.

Do your numerous sources not mention anything else, like decisions the government of the day might make?

It isn't the only variable I am interested in; it is the current most significant change in the progress of the Chinese virus and our handling of it, hence it is something timely to make comment on. What is your opinion on these mass gatherings which commonly place little or no observation of the social isolation rules? Do you think that is a good thing?

[whelk]

3 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Les's main objective is to parrot back whatever horseshit the government has laid out for him.

Looks like he's been beautifully primed to trot out the "blame the irresponsible public" routine on command as well. Such a good obedient chap.

Lefties and blacks on marches wot dunnit 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, RedArmy said:

Surely the main objective is to save lives? Which they very clearly failed at. 

If that was the case, we should have all just stayed in and not gone out until a vaccination was found. Had they imposed that, would they have clearly passed. 

[RedArmy]

12 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If that was the case, we should have all just stayed in and not gone out until a vaccination was found. Had they imposed that, would they have clearly passed. 

What’s your point here? Are you trying to imply I said they should have prevented all deaths? Because I clearly didn’t. 

Did more people die as a direct result of government policy, yes or no? 

[Lighthouse]

Looks like the Chinese have managed to add an outbreak of bubonic plague into the equation. 😯

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, RedArmy said:

What’s your point here? Are you trying to imply I said they should have prevented all deaths? Because I clearly didn’t. 

Did more people die as a direct result of government policy, yes or no? 

The Government policy was to ensure that the NHS had sufficient capacity to deal with the outbreak of the virus, thus ensuring that enough ventilators were available for patients who needed them.  Despite a seemingly 'shaky' start to that, I do not believe that there was one single patient that DIDN'T receive the care and equipment that they needed during the first outbreak.  Indeed, a number of 'temporary' wards were constructed around the country providing thousands of extra beds, very few of which were ever utilised.

So, as a direct result of Government policy I would say 'no'.

I am, however, more than happy to look at any evidence you have that contradicts that and proves that more people died as a direct result of Government policy.

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

It isn't the only variable I am interested in; it is the current most significant change in the progress of the Chinese virus and our handling of it, hence it is something timely to make comment on. What is your opinion on these mass gatherings which commonly place little or no observation of the social isolation rules? Do you think that is a good thing?

"Mass gatherings that commonly place little observation of social isolation rules" aren't a particularly good thing, no. 

What do you think the government could have done better to prevent them?

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

"Mass gatherings that commonly place little observation of social isolation rules" aren't a particularly good thing, no. 

What do you think the government could have done better to prevent them?

The Government had two polar options :

1. Do nothing. Virus will spread, people will die, herd immunity will eventually kick in.  End result life carries on as usual for the vast majority of people.

2. Lock everyone up from day 1 to ensure the virus doesn't spread (people are stupid so it would still get around to a lesser degree) until a vaccine is developed, then start a full immunisation programme.  End result is economic ruination without a doubt, plus most likely huge civil unrest half way through once people realise their economic lives had been ruined!

Essentially the Government was stuck between a rock and a hard place - as any UK government would have been - so chose some sort of hybrid half way house.  End result is that anyone can pick holes in what they did or didn't do with the benefit of hindsight, especially given the unknown nature of the virus which meant that policies had to be made up 'on the fly'.

[whelk]

20 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The Government policy was to ensure that the NHS had sufficient capacity to deal with the outbreak of the virus, thus ensuring that enough ventilators were available for patients who needed them.  Despite a seemingly 'shaky' start to that, I do not believe that there was one single patient that DIDN'T receive the care and equipment that they needed during the first outbreak.  Indeed, a number of 'temporary' wards were constructed around the country providing thousands of extra beds, very few of which were ever utilised.

So, as a direct result of Government policy I would say 'no'.

I am, however, more than happy to look at any evidence you have that contradicts that and proves that more people died as a direct result of Government policy.

Have you heard of care homes?

[RedArmy]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The Government policy was to ensure that the NHS had sufficient capacity to deal with the outbreak of the virus, thus ensuring that enough ventilators were available for patients who needed them.  Despite a seemingly 'shaky' start to that, I do not believe that there was one single patient that DIDN'T receive the care and equipment that they needed during the first outbreak.  Indeed, a number of 'temporary' wards were constructed around the country providing thousands of extra beds, very few of which were ever utilised.

So, as a direct result of Government policy I would say 'no'.

I am, however, more than happy to look at any evidence you have that contradicts that and proves that more people died as a direct result of Government policy.

1) Sending the elderly back/in to care homes without testing them, further spreading the virus to the most vulnerable. 
2) Pausing all community testing despite repeated warnings from the WHO that they weren’t doing enough, lying about a lack of reagents being the reason and then later admitting that it was a policy decision to focus on hospital admissions only. 
 

There’s a couple for you to get started on. The idea that the government prevented the NHS from being overwhelmed is laughable. It’s funny how they didn’t show off how much spare capacity there was in hospitals until after they’d cleared out all of the elderly and opened the nightingale hospitals. Almost as if the existing NHS networks were at breaking point. 
 

 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The Government had two polar options :

1. Do nothing. Virus will spread, people will die, herd immunity will eventually kick in.  End result life carries on as usual for the vast majority of people.

2. Lock everyone up from day 1 to ensure the virus doesn't spread (people are stupid so it would still get around to a lesser degree) until a vaccine is developed, then start a full immunisation programme.  End result is economic ruination without a doubt, plus most likely huge civil unrest half way through once people realise their economic lives had been ruined!

Essentially the Government was stuck between a rock and a hard place - as any UK government would have been - so chose some sort of hybrid half way house.  End result is that anyone can pick holes in what they did or didn't do with the benefit of hindsight, especially given the unknown nature of the virus which meant that policies had to be made up 'on the fly'.

If you try really hard you could be even more reductive.

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, RedArmy said:

1) Sending the elderly back/in to care homes without testing them, further spreading the virus to the most vulnerable. 
2) Pausing all community testing despite repeated warnings from the WHO that they weren’t doing enough, lying about a lack of reagents being the reason and then later admitting that it was a policy decision to focus on hospital admissions only. 
 

There’s a couple for you to get started on. The idea that the government prevented the NHS from being overwhelmed is laughable. It’s funny how they didn’t show off how much spare capacity there was in hospitals until after they’d cleared out all of the elderly and opened the nightingale hospitals. Almost as if the existing NHS networks were at breaking point. 
 

 

1.  Was that really a 'Government policy'?

2. Have you any evidence whatsoever that links the lack of community testing to more people dying?

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, whelk said:

Have you heard of care homes?

Yes

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, CB Fry said:

If you try really hard you could be even more reductive.

I assume you missed the bit about two 'polar options'.

[CB Fry]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I assume you missed the bit about two 'polar options'.

No, that's exactly what inspired my reply.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

No, that's exactly what inspired my reply.

Really?  You appreciate that between the two 'polar options' are an almost infinite number of options that exist in an almost infinite number of combinations.

I'd love to see the roadmap you created for dealing with the virus in March which would have been absolutely perfect and couldn't have a single criticism made about it!  After all, that seems to be your perspective of how the Government should have handled the situation!

[Tamesaint]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Really?  You appreciate that between the two 'polar options' are an almost infinite number of options that exist in an almost infinite number of combinations.

I'd love to see the roadmap you created for dealing with the virus in March which would have been absolutely perfect and couldn't have a single criticism made about it!  After all, that seems to be your perspective of how the Government should have handled the situation!

Although it would be nice it would be difficult to find anything "absolutely perfect." Perhaps instead we could have followed the same roadmap as Germany  .. or Korea … or anyone of the many countries which are recording fewer covid deaths per capita than us.  

[CB Fry]

17 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Really?  You appreciate that between the two 'polar options' are an almost infinite number of options that exist in an almost infinite number of combinations.

I'd love to see the roadmap you created for dealing with the virus in March which would have been absolutely perfect and couldn't have a single criticism made about it!  After all, that seems to be your perspective of how the Government should have handled the situation!

Well, I said you could be more reductive if you tried, and here we are.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

Although it would be nice it would be difficult to find anything "absolutely perfect." Perhaps instead we could have followed the same roadmap as Germany  .. or Korea … or anyone of the many countries which are recording fewer covid deaths per capita than us.  

Perhaps we could.  Did we have the same facilities as those countries to use the same roadmaps?

[Tamesaint]

 

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Perhaps we could.  Did we have the same facilities as those countries to use the same roadmaps?

According to Johnson before the epidemic took hold we had "world class" systems so I would have thought so.

[Weston Super Saint]

28 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

 

According to Johnson before the epidemic took hold we had "world class" systems so I would have thought so.

Is that why not one single patient has been denied the treatment they needed during this epidemic?