Coronavirus

[Weston Super Saint]

His motivation or instincts are entirely irrelevant. When lockdown was announced we weren't told to use our common sense - we were issued a directive that we were to adhere to and failure would result in criminal charges or a fine. He broke his (or at least the govt) rules. Failure to sack him undermines the government position and any further directives they might issue.

 

It's odd really. On the one hand you state that everyone should adhere to the 'directives' or face criminal charges or a fine. It's pretty clear the Cummings DID NOT follow those directives. I believe there was one other option available to police at the time (we had a reasonably heated discussion on this very thread at the time), which meant they could also give appropriate advice to anyone who is/was in contravention of the 'directives'.

 

Why is it then, that you (and indeed many, many otheres) have decided that given the three options; advice, fine, criminal charges, that he (or anyone else for that matter) should be 'sacked'? On what grounds would a 'sacking' in this instance likely stand up in a tribunal - I imagine he has a fairly standard contract when it comes to gross misconduct, potentially it could be claimed that he 'brought the company into disrepute', but then there is the statement from Durham Constabulary which seems to suggest that the 'advice' option was deemed appropriate at the time :

 

This is the statement I read.

 

 

If you are happy for Cummings to be fired for ignoring the 'directives', where do you draw the line? Do you go back through all the CCTV with people in parks, on beaches etc during the lockdown who have clearly also ignored the 'directives' and go and hound their employers campainging for them to also be sacked?

 

Yes, the man (and his family) have clearly not followed the 'directives' but shouldn't the 'punishment' for this follow the prescribed guidelines?

[Weston Super Saint]

If all Cummings did was sit on a deckchair on his parents driveway for the time it took to drink a cup of tea the story would have been over by Saturday lunchtime.

 

As opposed to what he has claimed he was doing (no evidence yet to suggest otherwise, but happy to be corrected), which was to stay indoors with his family, 'isolating' and retrieve food deliveries left outside the door?

[CB Fry]

As opposed to what he has claimed he was doing (no evidence yet to suggest otherwise, but happy to be corrected), which was to stay indoors with his family, 'isolating' and retrieve food deliveries left outside the door?

Missing out the whole "don't travel to a second home" thing then.

[Weston Super Saint]

Missing out the whole "don't travel to a second home" thing then.

 

Missing out the whole 'unless exceptional circumstances' thing then - I get that the circumstances are up for debate, no denying that!

 

You're also missing out the whole 'do not travel out of your local area' directive that the Welsh Government had (still have?) in place.

[Tamesaint]

Missing out the whole "don't travel to a second home" thing then.

 

... and missing out trips of 30 miles to Barnard Castle. Was that where he admired the bluebells or was that another trip out I lose track.

 

.. and missing out the fact that he is not a normal person with a normal job but is the Prime Minister's chief political advisor.

[Weston Super Saint]

Missing out the whole "don't travel to a second home" thing then.

 

Also missing out the whole 'you can meet with ONE other person from another household' thing then - but then that only came into effect in May for England, but (I think?) still not in effect for Wales. Definitely wasn't available in either country in March.

 

[rallyboy]

Look over there....Starmer has a donkey, probably two.

Two donkeys!

[Weston Super Saint]

 

.. and missing out the fact that he is not a normal person with a normal job but is the Prime Minister's chief political advisor.

 

Also missing out the fact that the laws of the land apply to everyone, equally and there are not different rules for 'non normal peole' with jobs in politics.

 

Absolutely, the man was an idiot and broke the rules, as did Kinnock. Both of them have been investigated by the police for their actions and have had what the police deemed 'appropriate action' taken.

 

It certainly seems odd that everyone is up in arms that he broke the rules - he did, there's no defence of that - but the same people are clamouring for whole new levels of punishment be invented as a result.

[Weston Super Saint]

Look over there....Starmer has a donkey, probably two.

Two donkeys!

 

No rules broken there

[whelk]

It's odd really. On the one hand you state that everyone should adhere to the 'directives' or face criminal charges or a fine. It's pretty clear the Cummings DID NOT follow those directives. I believe there was one other option available to police at the time (we had a reasonably heated discussion on this very thread at the time), which meant they could also give appropriate advice to anyone who is/was in contravention of the 'directives'.

 

Why is it then, that you (and indeed many, many otheres) have decided that given the three options; advice, fine, criminal charges, that he (or anyone else for that matter) should be 'sacked'? On what grounds would a 'sacking' in this instance likely stand up in a tribunal - I imagine he has a fairly standard contract when it comes to gross misconduct, potentially it could be claimed that he 'brought the company into disrepute', but then there is the statement from Durham Constabulary which seems to suggest that the 'advice' option was deemed appropriate at the time :

 

 

 

 

If you are happy for Cummings to be fired for ignoring the 'directives', where do you draw the line? Do you go back through all the CCTV with people in parks, on beaches etc during the lockdown who have clearly also ignored the 'directives' and go and hound their employers campainging for them to also be sacked?

 

Yes, the man (and his family) have clearly not followed the 'directives' but shouldn't the 'punishment' for this follow the prescribed guidelines?

 

Astounding how many things you don’t seem to grasp. Which is fair enough but normally those people stay quiet not try and debate and embarrass themselves

[Weston Super Saint]

Astounding how many things you don’t seem to grasp. Which is fair enough but normally those people stay quiet not try and debate and embarrass themselves

 

Lol. Point me in the right direction then....

[whelk]

Lol. Point me in the right direction then....

 

You can’t distinguish between a key role in public office and a sportsman so not much hope I’m afraid. You don’t understand how politics works.

[Weston Super Saint]

You can’t distinguish between a key role in public office and a sportsman so not much hope I’m afraid. You don’t understand how politics works.

 

I don't need to know how politics works. My argument is that the law applies equally to everyone as do the remedies laid out in said law. Perhaps you didn't understand the point and got a little confused so are trying to deflect with this comment?

[CB Fry]

Also missing out the whole 'you can meet with ONE other person from another household' thing then - but then that only came into effect in May for England, but (I think?) still not in effect for Wales. Definitely wasn't available in either country in March.

 

Jesus wept.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Been following the posts on this thread, but I've yet to see one from the lefties that expressed the degree of pearl clutching horror to Dominic Cummings trip up t'north, when the below story broke:

 

 

South Wales Police | #StayHomeSaveLives @swpolice

Replying to @SKinnock

 

I can’t stand the Kinnocks but they did nothing wrong, If Kinnock Jnr thinks his fathers well being is better served by him popping round on his birthday, that’s for him & his family to decide. Exactly as it’s Dom & his family to decide what’s best for their offspring. The Taffy Taliban should **** off and concentrate on real crimes, instead of this pony.

 

Of course hypocrisy has been replaced in the dictionary with whataboutary, so there’s not really any point in pointing out lefties inconsistencies.

[CB Fry]

I can’t stand the Kinnocks but they did nothing wrong, If Kinnock Jnr thinks his fathers well being is better served by him popping round on his birthday, that’s for him & his family to decide. Exactly as it’s Dom & his family to decide what’s best for their offspring. The Taffy Taliban should **** off and concentrate on real crimes, instead of this pony.

 

Of course hypocrisy has been replaced in the dictionary with whataboutary, so there’s not really any point in pointing out lefties inconsistencies.

For one it is Guided and Westie going on and on about Kinnock. Joined of course by the various outriders in the media, that posh little Guido-child was on ITV this morning spinning the same line.

 

I've already said if Cummings had just turned up in his parents drive for an hour the story would have been dead by lunch time on Saturday.

 

The only hypocrisy is pretending things that are completely different are the same for the political convenience. That's the dictionary definition of "Whataboutery".

Edited 25 May, 2020 by CB Fry

[buctootim]

I don't like Starbucks coffee, and I said that on social media. Nothing happened. My mate also posted he doesn't like it and got sacked!!! FFs what is wrong with people?? Starbucks said he shouldn't have done that because he is their Head of Marketing but its a

FREE world! Treat us like adults. You cant single one person out!!

Edited 25 May, 2020 by buctootim

[Whitey Grandad]

Also missing out the fact that the laws of the land apply to everyone, equally and there are not different rules for 'non normal peole' with jobs in politics.

 

Absolutely, the man was an idiot and broke the rules, as did Kinnock. Both of them have been investigated by the police for their actions and have had what the police deemed 'appropriate action' taken.

 

It certainly seems odd that everyone is up in arms that he broke the rules - he did, there's no defence of that - but the same people are clamouring for whole new levels of punishment be invented as a result.

You’re missing the point. This is nothing to do with the law but is everything to do with politics. Those who make the rules have to abide by them and be squeaky clean. What chance is there of ordinary people making sacrifices and abiding by the rules/guidelines/laws now that this selfish hypocrite has decided that they don’t apply to him?

 

Now wait for all those who have been issued fines to ask for their money back.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Some common sense at last. Red wall MP’s & I suspect they’re more in tune with their constituents than the howling lefties.

 

 

 

 

 

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[CB Fry]

Some common sense at last. Red wall MP’s & I suspect they’re more in tune with their constituents than the howling lefties.

 

 

 

 

 

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Conservative MP support Conservative Prime Minister. Yes, this is an earth shattering breakthrough.

 

Also, Lee Anderson is absolutely bats hit. Right up your street.

[The Kraken]

They’re not even fully defending him like Boris did, they’re both saying that there should be an investigation. So at odds with the message being put out by the PM.

[buctootim]

Lee Anderson is an oddball. Lifelong Labour member and councillor. Didn't get selected as the Labour candidate for the general election because of a string of comments he had made about women, so went off and became the Tory candidate instead.

[Lord Duckhunter]

They’re not even fully defending him like Boris did, they’re both saying that there should be an investigation. So at odds with the message being put out by the PM.

 

Exactly.

 

I can’t quite see what anything they wrote could be portrayed as backing the PM. Maybe people are more concerned with rushing out their clever responses, than reading what was actually written.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

I'd actually be happy with some sort of investigation to find out the actual facts before he's hounded out. If he was just out and about then I think everyone woild think he should be fired.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I'd actually be happy with some sort of investigation to find out the actual facts before he's hounded out. If he was just out and about then I think everyone woild think he should be fired.

 

What are you on about. The mob clearly know what’s best for his son, clearly know all the facts, & clearly are impartial & consistent over lockdown breaches. He has to go...

 

 

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[CB Fry]

I'd actually be happy with some sort of investigation to find out the actual facts before he's hounded out. If he was just out and about then I think everyone woild think he should be fired.

What are you on about. The mob clearly know what’s best for his son, clearly know all the facts, & clearly are impartial & consistent over lockdown breaches. He has to go...

 

 

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The Prime Minister could have very easily announced that at 5pm last night. That's actually the point.

 

He didn't, and Duckie, who likes to accuse others of "howling" was howling about "the lockdown Taliban" after that, rather than asking for an investigation.

 

But loony Joe Anderson says it the following day and now hes all for it.

[LGTL]

The fact that Labour have only called for an investigation is telling. They know the longer he clings on, the worse it looks. Boris playing a blinder.

 

Looks like we’ll have a press conference from Cummings to look forward to later today. Expect he’ll announce he’s sacked BJ.

Edited 25 May, 2020 by LGTL

[Weston Super Saint]

You’re missing the point. This is nothing to do with the law but is everything to do with politics. Those who make the rules have to abide by them and be squeaky clean. What chance is there of ordinary people making sacrifices and abiding by the rules/guidelines/laws now that this selfish hypocrite has decided that they don’t apply to him?

 

Now wait for all those who have been issued fines to ask for their money back.

 

I agree, 100%, they should be squeaky clean.

 

However, I fear you may be missing the point. As an 'advisor' - and from what I can make out, he is a limited company contractor - Cummings is NOT someone who 'makes the rules', as he is not an elected member of parliament, nor is he a member of the House of Lords (yet).

[aintforever]

What what is already know he should be sacked.

 

It’s important for people at that level of government to set an example, they cannot even appear to be breaking the rules.

Besides, the childcare excuse is clearly bull****e the instructions to stay at home were clear.

[RedArmy]

How did Boris manage to escape this much criticism for being in 3 different residences during lockdown?

[Weston Super Saint]

What what is already know he should be sacked.

 

It’s important for people at that level of government to set an example, they cannot even appear to be breaking the rules.

Besides, the childcare excuse is clearly bull****e the instructions to stay at home were clear.

 

???

 

1. As a limited company contractor he cannot be 'sacked', nor can he 'resign' in the traditional sense.

2. He is not a member of Her Majesty's Government, merely an 'advisor'.

[whelk]

Boris tellingly didn’t answer the visiting the castle question which would have been a clear fck you ‘the mob’ have got it wrong if he knew he hadn’t.

Suckers on here probably think he hasn’t had time to ask him that one. Weston probably thinks Cummings clocks off a 430 on Friday in his standard civil servant role

[The Kraken]

Barnard Castle is a town (albeit named after the castle that is houses). Thus I’d expect that the defence to be, if there is to be one, that he was shopping for essential supplies.

[Weston Super Saint]

Astounding how many things you don’t seem to grasp. Which is fair enough but normally those people stay quiet not try and debate and embarrass themselves

 

Boris tellingly didn’t answer the visiting the castle question which would have been a clear fck you ‘the mob’ have got it wrong if he knew he hadn’t.

Suckers on here probably think he hasn’t had time to ask him that one. Weston probably thinks Cummings clocks off a 430 on Friday in his standard civil servant role

 

Any update yet on pointing me in the direction of where I went wrong? Thought not

[Weston Super Saint]

Boris tellingly didn’t answer the visiting the castle question which would have been a clear fck you ‘the mob’ have got it wrong if he knew he hadn’t.

Suckers on here probably think he hasn’t had time to ask him that one. Weston probably thinks Cummings clocks off a 430 on Friday in his standard civil servant role

 

PMSL - you know the National Trust shut all castles don't you?

 

Oh, right, you think the town is a castle, lol.

[SFC1906]

What if one of the kids has Asperger’s or was Autistic, would this change your view . If there’s only a select few people the kid is comfortable with, only one or two that won’t cause him distress, is it acceptable to drive further. Or is it a case of **** him, he can stay with anyone. All hypothetical of course.

 

 

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He should have done what me and my wife did with our Autistic 4yr old daughter when we were both displaying symptoms - follow the Government guidelines by staying in and deal with it. Wasn't easy but we had to just get on with it.

Not drive half way up the country under some ridiculous premise that there was literally no alternative.

[whelk]

Any update yet on pointing me in the direction of where I went wrong? Thought not

 

Mate you arwrite loads and loads and can’t grasp basics. Like discussing with SOG.

I recall you didn’t understand why testing was needed. You clearly don’t have a modicum of understanding of advisory roles. Suggest you Amy start watching The Thick of It and see if you really concentrate you might be able to see a parallel with Malcolm Tucker.

[whelk]

PMSL - you know the National Trust shut all castles don't you?

 

Oh, right, you think the town is a castle, lol.

 

Haha Like David Brent looking up stats about Dostoyevsky

[whelk]

???

 

1. As a limited company contractor he cannot be 'sacked', nor can he 'resign' in the traditional sense.

2. He is not a member of Her Majesty's Government, merely an 'advisor'.

 

Fair play with sticking to not having a clue. Politics isn’t for everyone sweetie

[whelk]

Barnard Castle is a town (albeit named after the castle that is houses). Thus I’d expect that the defence to be, if there is to be one, that he was shopping for essential supplies.

 

But ultimately it is Barnard who looks after the castle right?

[Weston Super Saint]

Mate you arwrite loads and loads and can’t grasp basics. Like discussing with SOG.

I recall you didn’t understand why testing was needed. You clearly don’t have a modicum of understanding of advisory roles. Suggest you Amy start watching The Thick of It and see if you really concentrate you might be able to see a parallel with Malcolm Tucker.

 

Lol, didn't understand most of that; 'you arwrite loads and loads' - your head needs a wobble pal.

 

Fascinated by your recollection of me not understanding why testing was needed - love for you to find ANY post of mine where that was the case. I'm sure it'll be too much trouble for you though - much easier to make stuff up and pretend someone said it.

[The Kraken]

But ultimately it is Barnard who looks after the castle right?

Yep, he patrols the grounds with his St. Bernard.

[egg]

It's utterly laughable that even with many of the government's own scientific advisors lambasting them and Cummings, that there are some on here that stll say that more needs to be known. Madness.

 

 

For those that still don't get it, Stephen Reicher says it all:

 

 

Stephen Reicher

@ReicherStephen

Be open and honest, we said. Trashed.

Respect the public, we said. Trashed

Ensure equity, so everyone is treated the same, we said. Trashed.

Be consistent we said. Trashed.

Make clear 'we are all in it together'. Trashed.

Edited 25 May, 2020 by egg

[LGTL]

It's utterly laughable that even with many of the government's own scientific advisors lambasting them and Cummings, that there are some on here that stll say that more needs to be known. Madness.

 

 

For those that still don't get it, Stephen Reicher says it all:

 

 

Stephen Reicher

@ReicherStephen

Be open and honest, we said. Trashed.

Respect the public, we said. Trashed

Ensure equity, so everyone is treated the same, we said. Trashed.

Be consistent we said. Trashed.

Make clear 'we are all in it together'. Trashed.

 

A few on here have found a new love of defending unelected bureaucrats it seems. Quite the reversal from the Brexit days.

[The Kraken]

Cummings due to make a statement and take questions later today.

[egg]

A few on here have found a new love of defending unelected bureaucrats it seems. Quite the reversal from the Brexit days.

Seems that way. Hard to see how people can focus on the "crime", rather than the inevitable public perception and its likely impact on the remnants of the lockdown. I know of people who have met up for a group social distance walk today citing Cummings as setting the precedent for doing what you want.

[buctootim]

Barnard Castle is a town (albeit named after the castle that is houses). Thus I’d expect that the defence to be, if there is to be one, that he was shopping for essential supplies.

 

Apparently the witness saw him walking by the river outside the town. Maybe he was filling essential water bottles or fishing for dinner.

[whelk]

Lol, didn't understand most of that; 'you arwrite loads and loads' - your head needs a wobble pal.

 

Fascinated by your recollection of me not understanding why testing was needed - love for you to find ANY post of mine where that was the case. I'm sure it'll be too much trouble for you though - much easier to make stuff up and pretend someone said it.

 

I love so many get forensic over their posts. ‘Show me show me’

I couldn’t give much of a fck if I was wrong and was a different poster but yes I am definitely not trawling through the thread to find.

 

It is not made up and patently clear that you cannot understand Cummings’ role. Don’t worry Wes agrees he is a mere advisor too.

 

Daily Mail must be getting too excitable too

[whelk]

Cummings due to make a statement and take questions later today.

 

Let’s Fcking hope Peston doesn’t get the first one. Or any

[hypochondriac]

Seems that way. Hard to see how people can focus on the "crime", rather than the inevitable public perception and its likely impact on the remnants of the lockdown. I know of people who have met up for a group social distance walk today citing Cummings as setting the precedent for doing what you want.

Wow what a bunch of brain dead f*cktards you know. Imagine basing your actions during all this on what one government advisor decides to do.