Coronavirus

[revolution saint]

I am pretty undecided about this. I do think optically it looks terrible and it does undermine the government position so maybe he should go for that alone. On the other hand, I do think that motivation is important here. If I lived in Manchester and the only other people I trusted to look after my young child lived down south, my wife became ill with the virus and I suspected I would soon be next then I'd absolutely drive down south. That's if the official version is actually what happened of course.

 

I will be interested to see how this plays to the vast majority of the public who are non political. I've spoken to a load of people about the issue today and I was surprised by the number who either didn't know anything about it or didn't really know who Dominic Cummings was before this weekend. Ultimately if he does end up going it will be because of the opinion of the public- the actual public not the permenently outraged on twitter- rather than some headlines in the guardian and mirror.

 

His motivation or instincts are entirely irrelevant. When lockdown was announced we weren't told to use our common sense - we were issued a directive that we were to adhere to and failure would result in criminal charges or a fine. He broke his (or at least the govt) rules. Failure to sack him undermines the government position and any further directives they might issue.

[hypochondriac]

His motivation or instincts are entirely irrelevant. When lockdown was announced we weren't told to use our common sense - we were issued a directive that we were to adhere to and failure would result in criminal charges or a fine. He broke his (or at least the govt) rules. Failure to sack him undermines the government position and any further directives they might issue.

Interesting if that's the case that the police didn't feel it necessary to take action.

[rallyboy]

The single wobbly pillar holding up his defence is child care.

But they didn't make use of any, his wife's diary explains that....they only needed shopping dropped at a door.

Which could probably have been covered by his aide who lives 500 metres away from him, or his sister-in-law who also lives in London, or anyone who works in Westminster.

Durham was for family birthdays.

The whole explanation is shambolic - and so blatantly made-up that they are just taking the mick out of anyone dim enough to buy it all.

[Baird of the land]

The single wobbly pillar holding up his defence is child care.

But they didn't make use of any, his wife's diary explains that....they only needed shopping dropped at a door.

Which could probably have been covered by his aide who lives 500 metres away from him, or his sister-in-law who also lives in London, or anyone who works in Westminster.

Durham was for family birthdays.

The whole explanation is shambolic - and so blatantly made-up that they are just taking the mick out of anyone dim enough to buy it all.

 

Wonder are they off the sister in laws xmas card list by implying she was completely unsuitable/uncaring that they had to travel the length of the country to find someone to do some shopping for them.

[badgerx16]

The single wobbly pillar holding up his defence is child care.

But they didn't make use of any, his wife's diary explains that....they only needed shopping dropped at a door.

Which could probably have been covered by his aide who lives 500 metres away from him, or his sister-in-law who also lives in London, or anyone who works in Westminster.

Durham was for family birthdays.

The whole explanation is shambolic - and so blatantly made-up that they are just taking the mick out of anyone dim enough to buy it all.

There are only 3 words in the English language that matter;

 

Get Brexit Done.

[egg]

Interesting if that's the case that the police didn't feel it necessary to take action.

 

They did act. They went and reminded them of the rules. That's what they appear to do more often than not. What is of more interest is that the government haven't acted. He's plainly broken the spirit and letter of the rules and in doing so undermined the rules. His conduct will lead loads of people to excersize "common sense" to do as they wish.

[hypochondriac]

They did act. They went and reminded them of the rules. That's what they appear to do more often than not. What is of more interest is that the government haven't acted. He's plainly broken the spirit and letter of the rules and in doing so undermined the rules. His conduct will lead loads of people to excersize "common sense" to do as they wish.

Did they? The report I read said that they followed up on a request by cummings' father to ring him.

[egg]

Did they? The report I read said that they followed up on a request by cummings' father to ring him.

If that is right, I stand corrected. My understanding is that they went and spoke with a family to remind them of their obligations.

[sandwichsaint]

Being trolled by your own Prime Minister; 'useful idiots' doesn't even come close.

[Lord Duckhunter]

So much knowledge of the lockdown rules on here, maybe one of the Lockdown Taliban can answer this question. My son has 2 kids, aged 2 & 4. If him and his wife suspect they have Covid are they allowed to bring the kids for me & the snap dragon to look after, or does that break “the rules”.

 

 

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[hypochondriac]

If that is right, I stand corrected. My understanding is that they went and spoke with a family to remind them of their obligations.

This is the statement I read.

[Shroppie]

So much knowledge of the lockdown rules on here, maybe one of the Lockdown Taliban can answer this question. My son has 2 kids, aged 2 & 4. If him and his wife suspect they have Covid are they allowed to bring the kids for me & the snap dragon to look after, or does that break “the rules”.

 

 

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If your name is Cummings, yes, otherwise certainly not.

 

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[Born In The 80s]

Is kind of worrying that an unelected arsehole like Cummings appears to be so indispensable to our government. Regardless of wether he technically broke the rules or not (he obviously did), this whole affair looks terrible for the Tories and could have a negative effect on the lockdown and maybe cost lives. Surely sacking him and getting another advisor is a no brainer.

 

 

As a family of long-time conservative voters, this is 100% my opinion. Can't believe that press conference. Utterly ridiculous that he wants to risk the integrity of the government on one advisor. Starmur must be very happy tonight.

[Shroppie]

Getting interesting. The witness in Barnard Castle is cross and has made an official complaint under the Coronavirus Act, supplying the police with Cummings's number plate. The police are obliged to investigate that.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

If your name is Cummings, yes, otherwise certainly not.

 

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So what are my son & daughter in law supposed to do with their kids, if they’re incapable of looking after them due to Covid?

 

 

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[egg]

So much knowledge of the lockdown rules on here, maybe one of the Lockdown Taliban can answer this question. My son has 2 kids, aged 2 & 4. If him and his wife suspect they have Covid are they allowed to bring the kids for me & the snap dragon to look after, or does that break “the rules”.

 

 

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I've no idea what the rules are now Duck, it seems "common sense" means a liberal interpretation. Back then, this is the detail of the rules. Have a read and highlight the bit that permitted what Cummings did. If it helps you, there'll be nothing to highlight save the "reasonable excuse" provision and that's clearly what they rely upon.

 

Restrictions on movement

6.—(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

 

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a reasonable excuse includes the need—

 

(a)to obtain basic necessities, including food and medical supplies for those in the same household (including any pets or animals in the household) or for vulnerable persons and supplies for the essential upkeep, maintenance and functioning of the household, or the household of a vulnerable person, or to obtain money, including from any business listed in Part 3 of Schedule 2;

(b)to take exercise either alone or with other members of their household;

©to seek medical assistance, including to access any of the services referred to in paragraph 37 or 38 of Schedule 2;

(d)to provide care or assistance, including relevant personal care within the meaning of paragraph 7(3B) of Schedule 4 to the Safeguarding of Vulnerable Groups Act 2006(3), to a vulnerable person, or to provide emergency assistance;

(e)to donate blood;

(f)to travel for the purposes of work or to provide voluntary or charitable services, where it is not reasonably possible for that person to work, or to provide those services, from the place where they are living;

(g)to attend a funeral of—

(i)a member of the person’s household,

(ii)a close family member, or

(iii)if no-one within sub-paragraphs (i) or (ii) are attending, a friend;

(h)to fulfil a legal obligation, including attending court or satisfying bail conditions, or to participate in legal proceedings;

(i)to access critical public services, including—

(i)childcare or educational facilities (where these are still available to a child in relation to whom that person is the parent, or has parental responsibility for, or care of the child);

(ii)social services;

(iii)services provided by the Department of Work and Pensions;

(iv)services provided to victims (such as victims of crime);

(j)in relation to children who do not live in the same household as their parents, or one of their parents, to continue existing arrangements for access to, and contact between, parents and children, and for the purposes of this paragraph, “parent” includes a person who is not a parent of the child, but who has parental responsibility for, or who has care of, the child;

(k)in the case of a minister of religion or worship leader, to go to their place of worship;

(l)to move house where reasonably necessary;

(m)to avoid injury or illness or to escape a risk of harm.

[LGTL]

So what are my son & daughter in law supposed to do with their kids, if they’re incapable of looking after them due to Covid?

 

 

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If your son was well enough to drive 260 miles, I expect you’d tell him that he’s well enough to look after his son.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If your son was well enough to drive 260 miles, I expect you’d tell him that he’s well enough to look after his son.

 

What happens if his condition deteriorates & I’m 260 miles away, who looks after his kids then.

 

 

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[LGTL]

What happens if his condition deteriorates & I’m 260 miles away, who looks after his kids then.

 

 

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Perhaps you could call family that live closer to him (like Dom had) to ask them to help out instead? Let’s not pretend Cummings has nobody else to look after his kid in London. He’s chief advisor to the PM, the notion there was nobody in London is farcical.

[Tamesaint]

Read the post above. Feel free to publish a link to any evidence that the Party have whipped MPs not to express their opinions on this.

 

I am not privy to the instructions issued by Conservative party whips and I would be staggered if you are, but this looks pretty convincing that there was an effort by whips to rally support round Cummings. For you to believe otherwise indicates unbelievable naivety on your behalf - but then Wes you are pretty unbelievable.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/24/tory-whips-apologise-for-urging-mps-to-support-dominic-cummings

[Lord Duckhunter]

Perhaps you could call family that live closer to him (like Dom had) to ask them to help out instead? .

 

What if one of the kids has Asperger’s or was Autistic, would this change your view . If there’s only a select few people the kid is comfortable with, only one or two that won’t cause him distress, is it acceptable to drive further. Or is it a case of **** him, he can stay with anyone. All hypothetical of course.

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

Perhaps you could call family that live closer to him (like Dom had) to ask them to help out instead? Let’s not pretend Cummings has nobody else to look after his kid in London. He’s chief advisor to the PM, the notion there was nobody in London is farcical.

 

His aide lived 500 metres away and his sister in law lives round the corner.

[shurlock]

As Jenny Harries clarified yesterday the guidance is anyone with symptoms must self-isolate immediately unless "there is extreme risk to life". That's an extremely high bar to clear. The list of reasonable excuses appears more relevant to those without symptoms and the circumstances in which they can leave the house. There are conflicting reports whether DC was exhibiting symptoms when he drove up to Durham, though its safe to say his wife was doing so which, in ordinary circumstances, would require the rest of the household to self-isolate.

 

FWIW I was self-isolating for a while and desperately needed antibiotics for a concurrent tooth infection/abscess. It was very painful. I was explicitly told by 111 not to leave the house to pick them up which delayed my ability to start the treatment as I waited for alternative delivery arrangements. That's an insignificant drop in the ocean compared to the substantial sacrifices that other people up and down the country have had to make in putting others interests first.

Edited 24 May, 2020 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

His aide lived 500 metres away and his sister in law lives round the corner.

 

So it’s not the principle, it’s the distance. You can travel but only a certain distance. What’s the distance, a mile, 2 miles, 10 miles, 100 miles. Please advise at what distance a lawful journey becomes unlawful.

 

 

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[CB Fry]

So it’s not the principle, it’s the distance. You can travel but only a certain distance. What’s the distance, a mile, 2 miles, 10 miles, 100 miles. Please advise at what distance a lawful journey becomes unlawful.

 

 

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Jesus fu cking wept.

 

Like anyone is going to say anything to you that is going to make you think for a second that Dominic Cummings could have possibly done anything wrong.

[RedArmy]

“He put lives as risk, disgraceful”

“I’m going round to see my family, if he can then so will I”

 

[Tamesaint]

Jesus fu cking wept.

 

Like anyone is going to say anything to you that is going to make you think for a second that Dominic Cummings could have possibly done anything wrong.

 

 

I suspect that he has been drinking,

[shurlock]

edit

[CB Fry]

 

 

At least he's still got Duckie and Les swooning over him.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I suspect that he has been drinking,

 

Just being “forensic”.

 

I think I’ve worked it out. You can take your kid to a relatives house, but only if you’re not well enough to drive that far. You can drive to relatives, but not sure how far yet. Haven’t yet got an answer on Autism etc, but here’s hoping.

 

As you all said, the rules are very clear. Thanks for clearing them up.

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

Just being “forensic”.

 

I think I’ve worked it out. You can take your kid to a relatives house, but only if you’re not well enough to drive that far. You can drive to relatives, but not sure how far yet. Haven’t yet got an answer on Autism etc, but here’s hoping.

 

As you all said, the rules are very clear. Thanks for clearing them up.

 

 

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You are beginning to make yourself look stupid now. Why not switch the ipad off and watch the Antiques Roadshow?

[buctootim]

JK Rowling has offered a years salary to the Civil Servant who posted on the official twitter feed earlier

[fanimal]

So our friends whose 21 year old daughter died couldn't go and visit her at the end in hospital, how must they feel?

 

How many petrol stops did he make on his four trips up and down whilst infected? How many might have caught it from him?

[benjii]

So much knowledge of the lockdown rules on here, maybe one of the Lockdown Taliban can answer this question. My son has 2 kids, aged 2 & 4. If him and his wife suspect they have Covid are they allowed to bring the kids for me & the snap dragon to look after, or does that break “the rules”.

 

 

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If they're well enough to drive for several hours then no, they can look after them themselves and save you the bother.

[LGTL]

Just being “forensic”.

 

I think I’ve worked it out. You can take your kid to a relatives house, but only if you’re not well enough to drive that far. You can drive to relatives, but not sure how far yet. Haven’t yet got an answer on Autism etc, but here’s hoping.

 

As you all said, the rules are very clear. Thanks for clearing them up.

 

 

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What's the point. You can't see any wrong with what he's done and there's no convincing you otherwise.

Edited 24 May, 2020 by LGTL

[LGTL]

Even the Daily Mail turning on Boris and co. Cummings has become everything he proposes to hate. A part of the metropolitan elite.

 

Edited 24 May, 2020 by LGTL

[saint1977]

Even the Daily Mail turning on Boris and co. Cummings has become everything he proposes to hate. A part of the metropolitan elite.

 

 

Not surprised, for its faults, the Mail is a properly independent newspaper. Don’t like some of its views but it’s far from a poodle. The Sun is fudging by a tactic of ignorance - Premier League footballer goes to sex party etc - so they don’t print defences of Boris which hurt Murdoch’s empire later.

 

The Telegraph will do its North Korea impression but is allegedly in serious trouble anyway - lots of stories about their owners being at war and have been wanting to sell the title for some time. Situation really accelerated when Peter Oborne resigned over certain stories being apparently squashed to suit advertisers which heralded the current descent into pure client journalism and becoming one person’s mouthpiece. I stopped buying it as it was becoming no different to Conservative leaflets coming through my door. Oborne actually comes across as someone of substance and has done for some time. He has been posting that he thinks Boris is hanging onto Cummings not just of fear but also because he may have known what he was up to.

 

Just seen Tim Montgomerie interview as well - wow. Conservative Home.

 

This has escalated a lot more than I thought. Boris will survive it, Cameron survived Coulson, but circumstances are different and damage will be long lasting.

[shurlock]

Even the Daily Mail turning on Boris and co. Cummings has become everything he proposes to hate. A part of the metropolitan elite.

 

 

But they're a remoaner paper now or something or other...

Edited 24 May, 2020 by shurlock

[badgerx16]

But they're a remoaner paper now or something or other...

Don't forget "Pinko".

[egg]

The latest excuse is that the family were grieving the death of an uncle.

[buctootim]

[Jonnyboy]

Wow, you really think that Spain & Italy will recover economically before us? No chance. They’re heading for a long hard road ahead, German interests will see to that.

 

 

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Still waiting for Deutsch Bank to go bust.

[Jonnyboy]

What happens if his condition deteriorates & I’m 260 miles away, who looks after his kids then.

 

 

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Everyone I know who has had it has kids, and they all stayed put and rode it out.

[benjii]

Two fingers up to the will of the people to defend an unelected gravy-train riding, arrogant bureaucrat.

 

The sooner we leave the EU and take back control the better.

 

#breakfastmeansbreakfast

[Guided Missile]

Been following the posts on this thread, but I've yet to see one from the lefties that expressed the degree of pearl clutching horror to Dominic Cummings trip up t'north, when the below story broke:

 

Stephen Kinnock

@SKinnock

Mar 28

Dad turned 78 today. Incredible, but true. I took a couple of chairs over, and sat in their front garden for a socially distanced celebration. As you do Happy birthday, mate.

South Wales Police | #StayHomeSaveLives @swpolice

Replying to @SKinnock

Hello

@SKinnock

we know celebrating your Dad’s birthday is a lovely thing to do, however this is not essential travel. We all have our part to play in this, we urge you to comply with @GOVUK restrictions, they are in place to keep us all safe. Thank you.

[CB Fry]

Been following the posts on this thread, but I've yet to see one from the lefties that expressed the degree of pearl clutching horror to Dominic Cummings trip up t'north, when the below story broke:

 

 

South Wales Police | #StayHomeSaveLives @swpolice

Replying to @SKinnock

Presumably you are defending Cummings so by extension this is fine to you so what's your point?

 

PS - you're about two days late for peak Steven Kinnock Whataboutery on this thread.

[Fan The Flames]

Been following the posts on this thread, but I've yet to see one from the lefties that expressed the degree of pearl clutching horror to Dominic Cummings trip up t'north, when the below story broke:

 

 

South Wales Police | #StayHomeSaveLives @swpolice

Replying to @SKinnock

 

Mate you're about three days behind the whataboutery curve, all that effort for **** all.

[whelk]

Only people who can’t see anything wrong clearly have, or quite happily would break the lockdown. Same people posting pity stories too

[Guided Missile]

Mate you're about three days behind the whataboutery curve, all that effort for **** all.

Not really behind the curve, mate. Just gave you lefties a chance to level the same criticism against Kinnock. Please point me in the direction of a post from you lot about that ginger pr!ck.

 

Personally, I think Kinnock should resign as Member of Parliament (MP) for Aberavon and his Dad and Mum made to pay back the millions they siphoned off the EU for breaking the law.

 

Oh...and Cummings should resign and be elevated to the Lords.

[CB Fry]

Not really behind the curve, mate. Just gave you lefties a chance to level the same criticism against Kinnock. Please point me in the direction of a post from you lot about that ginger pr!ck.

 

Personally, I think Kinnock should resign as Member of Parliament (MP) for Aberavon and his Dad and Mum made to pay back the millions they siphoned off the EU for breaking the law.

 

Oh...and Cummings should resign and be elevated to the Lords.

If all Cummings did was sit on a deckchair on his parents driveway for the time it took to drink a cup of tea the story would have been over by Saturday lunchtime.

 

Funny you are not doing your days-stale whataboutery on the government advisors that had to and did resign.