Coronavirus

[Wes Tender]

Wes we were *explicity* told that grandparents couldn’t look after young children. That was utter black and white. We were also told to isolate at home with any coronavirus symptoms. Not drive 260 miles. There’s no excuses, he should go.

 

And I said that he was wrong. But also the ruling was that elderly parents should not be visited without good reason. But as both actions were wrong, I merely asked which of the two was more excusable on grounds of compassion.

[badgerx16]

or taking your young child to be looked after by its grandparents?

.

Why can Dom's parents see their grand child when I follow the Government's advice and avoid seeing mine, and will be unable to see/hold my grand daughter when she is born next month ?

[Wes Tender]

Will be millstone around Boris’s neck if he does stay. Which he will because Boris cannot process the level of detail needed to be PM.

 

Call me a cynic, but this will have blown over in a few weeks. But the implied suggestion also is that somehow there are not any other advisors anywhere in the UK who could do the same job as Cummings. I'm sure that there are.

[LGTL]

And I said that he was wrong. But also the ruling was that elderly parents should not be visited without good reason. But as both actions were wrong, I merely asked which of the two was more excusable on grounds of compassion.

 

It wasn’t a good reason though. In fact it was a terrible reason, and put the grandparents very much at risk. I’d argue that knowingly passing young children to elderly grandparents who have knowingly been exposed to the virus is actually far worse then wishing a father happy birthday, especially if they hadn’t been exposed to the virus at that time.

 

Both are stupid actions though and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Wes Tender]

Why can Dom's parents see their grand child when I follow the Government's advice and avoid seeing mine, and will be unable to see/hold my grand daughter when she is born next month ?

 

But they can't, can they? Or at least the point is that the policy was that they shouldn't have.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m with Dame Margaret Beckett when it comes to this, “Brexit trumps bad behaviour”. Boris can chuck Dom under a bus next year, but we need him in place to stiffen the sinews of the pinko, until we depart in Dec.

 

With him, Ferguson & the sweaty, why aren’t people drawing the obvious conclusion. It’s not that they think they’re above the guidelines , it’s that they don’t really believe it makes a blind bit of difference. If Dom thought visiting his parents put them at risk, he wouldn’t have done it. Had Ferguson thought his German floozy was being put at risk, he wouldn’t have done so. It dawned on some of us weeks ago that the Government over reacted, slowly but surely it’ll start to sink in to others. With sensible measures, you should of been able to visit your parents, should be able to bone your mistress, or visit your second home.

 

I honestly believe the Government set more draconian measures than were needed because they didn’t trust the British people to adopt sensible measures. Sensible measure which meant we could have all acted like the 3 amigos.

 

It’s funny how every time the Government needs something to happen, certain exemptions are produced. Football gets exceptions, fruit pickers flown in won’t need to be quarantined, oh you can visit your parents in certain circumstances, what’s the betting private jet passengers will have different regulations than Easy jet or Ryan air?

 

We’re being taken for mugs because nobody will turn round and admit millions of us have been locked away, billions of pounds added to the national debt, for measures that in the grand scheme of things didn’t make any difference to the death rate at all.

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

It wasn’t a good reason though. In fact it was a terrible reason, and put the grandparents very much at risk. I’d argue that knowingly passing young children to elderly grandparents who have knowingly been exposed to the virus is actually far worse then wishing a father happy birthday, especially if they hadn’t been exposed to the virus at that time.

 

Both are stupid actions though and should be dealt with accordingly.

 

I suspect that both sets of grandparents were equally at risk. I don't know the personal circumstances of whether Cummings pressed his parents to help look after the child, or whether it was them who persuaded him that it would be a good idea. One can weigh up the circumstances and arrive at one's own opinion, but on the face of it, it would have been quite simple for Kinnock to have video messaged Neil and sang happy birthday, wouldn't it?

 

I agree that both actions were stupid and should be dealt with in the same way as each other.

[aintforever]

According to the article you posted, the treatment is used when people are struggling in intensive care once their immune system is compromised....

 

My post said "If a treatment could be found that stopped people getting seriously ill".

 

Not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?

[Lord Duckhunter]

I suspect that both sets of grandparents were equally at risk. I don't know the personal circumstances of whether Cummings pressed his parents to help look after the child, or whether it was them who persuaded him that it would be a good idea. One can weigh up the circumstances and arrive at one's own opinion, but on the face of it, it would have been quite simple for Kinnock to have video messaged Neil and sang happy birthday, wouldn't it?

 

I agree that both actions were stupid and should be dealt with in the same way as each other.

 

Do you really believe Kinnock or Dom thought either set of parents were at risk? Of course not, they wouldn’t have visited them if that was the case.

 

All the “I’m not allowed to see my parents” brigade are sheep, plain and simple. My grandchildren come round every Saturday, sit in the front garden a couple of meters apart from each other (3 separate families) and we have a cup of tea/beer and a catch up. It upsets the snap dragon that she can’t play with the kids or cuddle her grown up children, but at least we get to see them, hear their voices, and have a laugh together. We stay “alert” in case the virus runs 2 meters across the grass and attacks us. Pretty sure my sons wouldn’t do this if they thought it put their mother & me at risk.

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

I

 

I agree that both actions were stupid and should be dealt with in the same way as each other.

 

Both Kinnock and Cummings acted wrongly. Kinnock is a backbencher MP elected democratically. The unelected Cummings, however, is this Government's chief advisor. He would have had a huge say in the formulation of this policy. Along with such exalted power comes responsibility. Cummings flouted this responsibility and if he was honourable would resign.

[Weston Super Saint]

Wow - can’t see the difference between the chief govt advisor and a footballers.

 

So not only can't you see the difference between the Government's chief advisor and a footballer but you cannot see the difference between him and an MP.

 

 

Where have I said that?

 

So far I've mentioned that in all instances the 'punishment' should fit the 'crime'. Do you not think that is an adequate response from the police?

[Weston Super Saint]

Wow - can’t see the difference between the chief govt advisor and a footballers.

Only when on Saintsweb would I come across such thinking.

 

 

Tell me. From what post should Kinnock be sacked?

Do his constituents have a say?

 

He can have the 'whip' removed and / or be expelled from the Labour party. In both instances, no, his constituents wouldn't have a say.

[whelk]

Red Army

 

Are you a fan of eugenics? Do you have children? What makes you think that you should have them, but not him?

 

 

 

These two comments are despicable. What does a child molester look like? .

 

I told you Dominic Cummings

[aintforever]

Do you really believe Kinnock or Dom thought either set of parents were at risk? Of course not, they wouldn’t have visited them if that was the case.

 

All the “I’m not allowed to see my parents” brigade are sheep, plain and simple. My grandchildren come round every Saturday, sit in the front garden a couple of meters apart from each other (3 separate families) and we have a cup of tea/beer and a catch up. It upsets the snap dragon that she can’t play with the kids or cuddle her grown up children, but at least we get to see them, hear their voices, and have a laugh together. We stay “alert” in case the virus runs 2 meters across the grass and attacks us. Pretty sure my sons wouldn’t do this if they thought it put their mother & me at risk.

 

 

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We do the same with my parents but didn't when the other half had symptoms and we were self isolating.

 

If we thought we had the infection the last thing we would have done is contact our parents, or try and offload our probably infected kid onto someone else.

[whelk]

Do you really believe Kinnock or Dom thought either set of parents were at risk? Of course not, they wouldn’t have visited them if that was the case.

 

All the “I’m not allowed to see my parents” brigade are sheep, plain and simple. My grandchildren come round every Saturday, sit in the front garden a couple of meters apart from each other (3 separate families) and we have a cup of tea/beer and a catch up. It upsets the snap dragon that she can’t play with the kids or cuddle her grown up children, but at least we get to see them, hear their voices, and have a laugh together. We stay “alert” in case the virus runs 2 meters across the grass and attacks us. Pretty sure my sons wouldn’t do this if they thought it put their mother & me at risk.

 

 

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You’ve changed your tune from previous when blathering about how serious it was and how you got unique info only shared with your missus and nothing else means anything.

[LGTL]

I wonder which 4th rate lamb they’ll put to the slaughter at the daily propaganda this afternoon?

[Wes Tender]

Both Kinnock and Cummings acted wrongly. Kinnock is a backbencher MP elected democratically. The unelected Cummings, however, is this Government's chief advisor. He would have had a huge say in the formulation of this policy. Along with such exalted power comes responsibility. Cummings flouted this responsibility and if he was honourable would resign.

I am aware of the status of the two individuals. I am also aware that you naturally will attempt to take some sort of moral stance that you would not take were the circumstances the other way around.

 

I would argue the moral position between Kinnock and Cummings the other way around, that Kinnock had more responsibility to his electorate than Cummings had as a mere advisor to the Government. If one were to resign, then so should the other, if one doesn't then neither should the other.

[Wes Tender]

I told you Dominic Cummings

 

Go on then, send me a photo of you and I'll use my worst prejudices to label you as some sort of undesirable paedophile/terrorist/psychopath based purely on your physical appearance and what you are wearing.

[Tamesaint]

The story about Ferguson came out a couple of weeks ago on the same day as the UK became the European leader for covid deaths. Guess which story made the front pages the next day.

 

I wonder if another story will break in the next couple of days to take the heat off Cummings.

[Tamesaint]

I am aware of the status of the two individuals. I am also aware that you naturally will attempt to take some sort of moral stance that you would not take were the circumstances the other way around.

 

I would argue the moral position between Kinnock and Cummings the other way around, that Kinnock had more responsibility to his electorate than Cummings had as a mere advisor to the Government. If one were to resign, then so should the other, if one doesn't then neither should the other.

 

So Cummins is a " mere advisor."

 

You really are comedy gold.

[Weston Super Saint]

 

I wonder if another story will break in the next couple of days to take the heat off Cummings.

 

You do know this was reported in March don't you? Where was your moral outrage at the time?

[LGTL]

Health Secretary on Ferguson: It’s a matter for the police. I’m speechless. Lockdown is very serious and everyone should be following the rules.

 

Health Secretary on Cummings: It’s entirely right what Dom Cummings has done.

 

If ever a man needed a backbone. Disgraceful.

[Weston Super Saint]

You do know this was reported in March don't you? Where was your moral outrage at the time?

 

Apologies, 'Early April' not March, but I guess the point stands....

[Weston Super Saint]

This latest Government policy announcement has to be the biggest ever case of closing the stable door after the horse has bolted ever in history. Utterly ridiculous and unsupportable

 

Yeah, too right, talk about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted! Totally ridiculous and unsupportable, we should all just ignore it!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52781812

[whelk]

Go on then, send me a photo of you and I'll use my worst prejudices to label you as some sort of undesirable paedophile/terrorist/psychopath based purely on your physical appearance and what you are wearing.

 

Is this a grooming strategy?

[Lord Duckhunter]

So Cummins is a " mere advisor."

 

 

He’s Boris’ Alister Campbell.

 

 

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[badgerx16]

My grandchildren come round every Saturday, sit in the front garden a couple of meters apart from each other (3 separate families) and we have a cup of tea/beer and a catch up. It upsets the snap dragon that she can’t play with the kids or cuddle her grown up children, but at least we get to see them, hear their voices, and have a laugh together. We stay “alert” in case the virus runs 2 meters across the grass and attacks us. Pretty sure my sons wouldn’t do this if they thought it put their mother & me at risk.

 

 

Did they come round and visit at the end of March, when the Cummins incident occurred, and his Government's advice strongly emphasised "stay at home", especially for anybody, as he was, exhibiting symptoms ? I'm sure the people of Durham appreciated somebody travelling 260 miles up from London when they had a persistant cough and high temperature.

Edited 23 May, 2020 by badgerx16

[Tamesaint]

You do know this was reported in March don't you? Where was your moral outrage at the time?

 

It happened in March. It has only been reported now.

 

I would have thought that such a bright spark as you with such a highly developed sense of constant questioning would now be wondering why this story has been hidden up to now.

[Tamesaint]

He’s Boris’ Alister Campbell.

 

 

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Exactly. Presumably you find the comment "mere advisor" as funny as I do.

[aintforever]

Apologies, 'Early April' not March, but I guess the point stands....

 

Do you have link to the report?

[badgerx16]

Who do we believe, No 10 or the Durham Police ?

[Wes Tender]

So Cummins is a " mere advisor."

 

You really are comedy gold.

 

He isn't a minister, or even an MP, he isn't elected, as you pointed out. If a policy goes wrong, who gets the flak? Him for advising on the policy, or the PM, Party, or the Minister responsible for the department running the policy? He advises, the cabinet decides whether to follow that advice or not when formulating government policy. He might be the main advisor, but it isn't that he is even the only one, he is one of many. Do try and get some perspective.

[CB Fry]

He isn't a minister, or even an MP, he isn't elected, as you pointed out. If a policy goes wrong, who gets the flak? Him for advising on the policy, or the PM, Party, or the Minister responsible for the department running the policy? He advises, the cabinet decides whether to follow that advice or not when formulating government policy. He might be the main advisor, but it isn't that he is even the only one, he is one of many. Do try and get some perspective.

You've got it down to an art form, I'll give you that.

[Tamesaint]

He isn't a minister, or even an MP, he isn't elected, as you pointed out. If a policy goes wrong, who gets the flak? Him for advising on the policy, or the PM, Party, or the Minister responsible for the department running the policy? He advises, the cabinet decides whether to follow that advice or not when formulating government policy. He might be the main advisor, but it isn't that he is even the only one, he is one of many. Do try and get some perspective.

 

You have got to stop this comedy gold Wes. You were pretty funny yesterday about Boris and PMQs but this is really funny.

 

... and dont get grumpy like you did yesterday when everybody laughed at you.

[CB Fry]

Here is Mrs Dominic Cummings describing how their child was present when she was sick on the floor, and also in attendance when Dominic was lying in bed barely able to breath. Not clear whether this was Durham or London but either way the child was present during the time they were both ill, rather than being cared for by someone else. Quite difficult to work out when exactly the trip up North took place and for what reason.

 

[buctootim]

Here is Mrs Dominic Cummings describing how their child was present when she was sick on the floor, and also in attendance when Dominic was lying in bed barely able to breath. Not clear whether this was Durham or London but either way the child was present during the time they were both ill, rather than being cared for by someone else. Quite difficult to work out when exactly the trip up North took place and for what reason.

 

 

Surely if they were as sick as they claim driving in that condition is a criminal offence.

[CB Fry]

Surely if they were as sick as they claim driving in that condition is a criminal offence.

Yeah but Steven Kinnock Steven Kinnock Steven Kinnock.

[buctootim]

Yeah but Steven Kinnock Steven Kinnock Steven Kinnock.

 

Just read this article in the Daily Mail on 23rd April where his wife claimed they were in London the whole time. Surely he should go, if Durham wasnt enough lying about it must be.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249237/Dominic-Cummings-lifts-lid-isolation-wife-young-son-ill-coronavirus.html

[aintforever]

From what I’ve read it seems the wife had symptoms so they suspected Cumming would as well so they dropped the kid off in case they couldn’t look after them.

 

If that’s the case they would have suspected that the kid would also have the virus and were happy to put their relatives at risk. If everyone acted that way when they caught the virus it would spread much quicker.

[aintforever]

Obviously should be a s on Cummings!

[Baird of the land]

Really does makes a mockery of things that govt is trying to sell message that its absolutely fine to travel the length of the country whilst ill, spreading the infection.

[Guided Missile]

Really does makes a mockery of things that govt is trying to sell message that its absolutely fine to travel the length of the country whilst ill, spreading the infection.

I was unaware Cummings used public transport...

[Wes Tender]

As I said earlier, this will all blow over in a week or two. Make the most of it while you can all you lefties, until some other little incident crops up so that you can adopt a stance of faux outrage about how nasty/evil/hypocritical/uncaring the government and its adherents all are. But the Tories don't have a monopoly on stuff like this, as Kinnock proved, so it also won't be long until there is something for the right wing media to feast on. In the meantime, looking at the larger picture, the government have a massive majority, there is a long time until the next election, so regardless of the odd hiccup from time to time, nothing much will change.

[Tamesaint]

I was unaware Cummings used public transport...

 

What on earth do you mean? Are you implying that

when the Government was stating that you shouldn't travel they only meant that you shouldn't travel by public transport?

[LGTL]

Listening to these briefings is hilarious now

[badgerx16]

............

Edited 23 May, 2020 by badgerx16

[whelk]

Listening to these briefings is hilarious now

 

Yeah we all tuned in to see when the A66 is having maintenance

[whelk]

As I said earlier, this will all blow over in a week or two. Make the most of it while you can all you lefties, until some other little incident crops up so that you can adopt a stance of faux outrage about how nasty/evil/hypocritical/uncaring the government and its adherents all are. But the Tories don't have a monopoly on stuff like this, as Kinnock proved, so it also won't be long until there is something for the right wing media to feast on. In the meantime, looking at the larger picture, the government have a massive majority, there is a long time until the next election, so regardless of the odd hiccup from time to time, nothing much will change.

 

Such a loyal little puppy aren’t you.

[LGTL]

Yeah we all tuned in to see when the A66 is having maintenance

 

Amazing isn’t it. A cynic would believe he’s waffling on about utter irrelevant nonsense in the hope he can reduce time for the questions at the end.

[whelk]

This is our pure the Thick of It. Bicycle vouchers bless him