Coronavirus

[Batman]

News just in

[Lighthouse]

It was an idiotic thing to do, mainly because it’s so ineffective, but won’t be harmful long term.

Bleach is very unstable in sunlight, and breaks down after just hours into water and salt.

Not good for the upper layers of microbial life, but they will recover very quickly.

 

So they may have engineered a situation where the top layer of sand is free from bleach and coated in Covid 19, but there're 2-3 inches of damp sand underneath soaked in bleach. Sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.

[Plastic]

So they may have engineered a situation where the top layer of sand is free from bleach and coated in Covid 19, but there're 2-3 inches of damp sand underneath soaked in bleach. Sounds like the worst of both worlds to me.

 

My point is that bleach exposed sunlight or water breaks down quickly into harmless compounds, it wont sit in the sand for more than a day or so. Bleach can be made out of seawater, its constituents are salt and water.

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6077.0

 

There wont be any Covid-19 on the ****ing beach anyway, so I'm as confused as you on that one.

Edited 30 April, 2020 by Plastic

[Lighthouse]

My point is that bleach exposed sunlight or water breaks down quickly into harmless compounds, it wont sit in the sand for more than a day or so. Bleach can be made out of seawater, its constituents are salt and water.

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6077.0

 

There wont be any Covid-19 on the ****ing beach anyway, so I'm as confused as you on that one.

 

Fair enough, I’m no expert on bleach. I assumed that if it soaked down into the sand and away from the seawater, it might well stay there until disturbed by footsteps or children playing. Whatever ends up happening, it’s a daft idea.

[Wes Tender]

It turns out that the Panorama documentary showing several NHS doctors and nurses slamming the government's handling of the Chinese virus pandemic, didn't bother to inform its' viewers that most of them were members of leftie political groups. I wonder whether any of them had an agenda of attempting to discredit the government? Should we therefore dismiss everything these people said on the grounds that it was stilted propaganda? Is the BBC biased towards the left? Surely not. It must have been a pure coincidence that these people chosen to comment during the programme were members of left-wing organisations. What were the chances of that happening on such a respected programme as Panorama, which has never previously shown any bias whatsoever against the Conservatives? I'm totally mystified as to how this could possibly have come about.

[RedArmy]

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/04/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-30-April-2020.xlsx

 

3 weeks beyond the peak now, yet they still want to keep the lockdown in place. It’s time to shield the care homes and start slowly relaxing the lockdown after bank holiday weekend.

[aintforever]

It turns out that the Panorama documentary showing several NHS doctors and nurses slamming the government's handling of the Chinese virus pandemic, didn't bother to inform its' viewers that most of them were members of leftie political groups. I wonder whether any of them had an agenda of attempting to discredit the government? Should we therefore dismiss everything these people said on the grounds that it was stilted propaganda? Is the BBC biased towards the left? Surely not. It must have been a pure coincidence that these people chosen to comment during the programme were members of left-wing organisations. What were the chances of that happening on such a respected programme as Panorama, which has never previously shown any bias whatsoever against the Conservatives? I'm totally mystified as to how this could possibly have come about.

 

"Chinese virus" Seriously - Are you Donald Trump or something?

 

Never miss a chance to be just a little bit racist.

[CB Fry]

It turns out that the Panorama documentary showing several NHS doctors and nurses slamming the government's handling of the Chinese virus pandemic, didn't bother to inform its' viewers that most of them were members of leftie political groups. I wonder whether any of them had an agenda of attempting to discredit the government? Should we therefore dismiss everything these people said on the grounds that it was stilted propaganda? Is the BBC biased towards the left? Surely not. It must have been a pure coincidence that these people chosen to comment during the programme were members of left-wing organisations. What were the chances of that happening on such a respected programme as Panorama, which has never previously shown any bias whatsoever against the Conservatives? I'm totally mystified as to how this could possibly have come about.

And to think that there are literally thousands of Guido Fawkes supporting free market libertarians working right across the front line of the heath and social care sector.

 

It's amazing they didn't speak to them about how brilliantly everything's going and why don't we privatise it all like what the Institute of Economic Affairs say we should. Lots of big fans of Mark Littlewood in the palliative care community.

[Whitey Grandad]

Fair enough, I’m no expert on bleach. I assumed that if it soaked down into the sand and away from the seawater, it might well stay there until disturbed by footsteps or children playing. Whatever ends up happening, it’s a daft idea.

 

I’ve always thought that bleach breaks down very quickly when outside and exposed.

 

You’d probably end up with a load of white sand, or at least blonde sand with darker streaks.

[Wes Tender]

"Chinese virus" Seriously - Are you Donald Trump or something?

 

Never miss a chance to be just a little bit racist.

 

Where do you think it originated? Are you Xi Jinping or something? Do please explain how naming a pandemic after the country of origin is racist

[RedArmy]

"Chinese virus" Seriously - Are you Donald Trump or something?

 

Never miss a chance to be just a little bit racist.

Is Spanish flu racist? Is MERS racist? Is Zika virus racist?

 

Or are they fine because Trump didn’t say them?

[aintforever]

Where do you think it originated? Are you Xi Jinping or something? Do please explain how naming a pandemic after the country of origin is racist

 

We all know where it originated and it already has a name but you for whatever reason decided to rename it.

[hypochondriac]

"Chinese virus" Seriously - Are you Donald Trump or something?

 

Never miss a chance to be just a little bit racist.

Lol you fool.

[aintforever]

Lol you fool.

 

No a fool would be someone who is ignorant about the abuse some Chinese people have been suffering because of this and use language that will only make it worse.

 

Sorry that's not a fool, its a c*nt.

[Wes Tender]

Is Spanish flu racist? Is MERS racist? Is Zika virus racist?

 

Or are they fine because Trump didn’t say them?

 

I wasn't personally offended or thought that we had been racially abused when this country had what was described as "the English disease" when applied to any of football hooliganism, or economic stagnation in the 1970s, or indeed other ailments both physical, mental or economics based. No doubt aintforever was seething with indignation though.

[hypochondriac]

No a fool would be someone who is ignorant about the abuse some Chinese people have been suffering because of this and use language that will only make it worse.

 

Sorry that's not a fool, its a c*nt.

Calling it a Chinese virus is no different than all those other viruses and pandemics that have been named after locations. People being racist to Chinese people are dangerous idiots who should be punished accordingly but that has nothing to do with being factual about the virus.

[Wes Tender]

No a fool would be someone who is ignorant about the abuse some Chinese people have been suffering because of this and use language that will only make it worse.

 

Sorry that's not a fool, its a c*nt.

 

I agree that it is foolish and wrong to abuse Chinese nationals for a disease that originated in their country. A lot of the blame rests with their Communist government. Perhaps you should watch the interview of the Chinese Ambassador to England by the BBC's Stephen Sackur and tell me whether you consider him racist for accusing the Chinese government of attempting to deny that the virus originated there. The ambassador denies that it started there, claiming that there were reports of it elsewhere beforehand. Laughable really.

 

[Lighthouse]

Not that I support any violence or discrimination against Chinese individuals but as a country they have to take the flak for this. The conditions which lead to this situations are almost entirely of their making, from the appalling, insanitary conditions animals are kept in in urban areas to the government denials, cover ups and R.I.P. three thousand victims and definitely not 21 million.

 

I dislike and disagree with Trump on pretty much every level but I don’t take issue with him or anyone else calling it the ‘Chinese virus’. As if this could have popped up in any random country and they were just the unlucky victims.

[Doctoroncall]

Is Spanish flu racist? Is MERS racist? Is Zika virus racist?

 

Or are they fine because Trump didn’t say them?

 

An interesting fact about Spanish flu - it didn’t start in Spain but it was the first to publicise it since they were not involved in the First World War and the papers were not censored (to avoid affecting morale). The first recorded case was in the US.

[whelk]

Not that I support any violence or discrimination against Chinese individuals but as a country they have to take the flak for this. The conditions which lead to this situations are almost entirely of their making, from the appalling, insanitary conditions animals are kept in in urban areas to the government denials, cover ups and R.I.P. three thousand victims and definitely not 21 million.

 

I dislike and disagree with Trump on pretty much every level but I don’t take issue with him or anyone else calling it the ‘Chinese virus’. As if this could have popped up in any random country and they were just the unlucky victims.

 

Except a lot seem to start there.Not totally random.

Not racist to say so.

Hope I haven’t been swayed by recently watch Contagion

[Manuel]

Not that I support any violence or discrimination against Chinese individuals but as a country they have to take the flak for this. The conditions which lead to this situations are almost entirely of their making, from the appalling, insanitary conditions animals are kept in in urban areas to the government denials, cover ups and R.I.P. three thousand victims and definitely not 21 million.

 

I dislike and disagree with Trump on pretty much every level but I don’t take issue with him or anyone else calling it the ‘Chinese virus’. As if this could have popped up in any random country and they were just the unlucky victims.

I'm guessing you've all seen Wuhan market on youtube. If this virus did come from bats it's no surprise it started there. A similar situation with ebola and the desire for "bush meat". Keep people out of the forests seems to be the answer to preventing these viruses passing from animals to humans. In Africa I imagine poverty drives people into the forests in search of food. Can the same be said for Wuhan and China though?

 

[RedArmy]

Laura Keunssberg should be banned from asking questions if she can’t come up with anything new to ask. It’s always the same questions with her.

[aintforever]

I agree that it is foolish and wrong to abuse Chinese nationals for a disease that originated in their country. A lot of the blame rests with their Communist government. Perhaps you should watch the interview of the Chinese Ambassador to England by the BBC's Stephen Sackur and tell me whether you consider him racist for accusing the Chinese government of attempting to deny that the virus originated there. The ambassador denies that it started there, claiming that there were reports of it elsewhere beforehand. Laughable really.

 

 

I totally agree that the Chinese government should take the blame for this, their wet markets are disgusting and need to be closed down. But Chinese people are being racially abused and attacked over here because of this and idiots like Trump purposely changing the name to "Chinese virus" will not achieve anything except fuel more abuse.

[Lighthouse]

Except a lot seem to start there.Not totally random.

Not racist to say so.

Hope I haven’t been swayed by recently watch Contagion

 

Eh? That’s exactly what I’m saying.

 

I'm guessing you've all seen Wuhan market on youtube. If this virus did come from bats it's no surprise it started there. A similar situation with ebola and the desire for "bush meat". Keep people out of the forests seems to be the answer to preventing these viruses passing from animals to humans. In Africa I imagine poverty drives people into the forests in search of food. Can the same be said for Wuhan and China though?

 

 

It’s ridiculous that this kind of thing is allowed in a developed country. In Britain you’d get closed down for having rats under the fridge, whilst the Chinese have their carcasses hanging by their tails in the open air.

 

No sanitation

No veterinary checks or treatment

No quality control

No refrigeration

No proper cooking or temperature checks

No sell by dates

No hygiene control for either hands or food preparation areas

No restriction on who is allowed into food preparation areas

 

I’ve worked in kitchens and restaurants at college and there were manuals and regulations as thick as the yellow pages we had to comply with. We had different colour mops because even with a bucket of industrial bleach, you’re not allowed to use the same mops in the kitchen, dining area or toilet facilities. These wet markets have nothing, it’s complete bandit country.

[Weston Super Saint]

Eh? That’s exactly what I’m saying.

 

 

 

It’s ridiculous that this kind of thing is allowed in a developed country. In Britain you’d get closed down for having rats under the fridge, whilst the Chinese have their carcasses hanging by their tails in the open air.

 

No sanitation

No veterinary checks or treatment

No quality control

No refrigeration

No proper cooking or temperature checks

No sell by dates

No hygiene control for either hands or food preparation areas

No restriction on who is allowed into food preparation areas

 

I’ve worked in kitchens and restaurants at college and there were manuals and regulations as thick as the yellow pages we had to comply with. We had different colour mops because even with a bucket of industrial bleach, you’re not allowed to use the same mops in the kitchen, dining area or toilet facilities. These wet markets have nothing, it’s complete bandit country.

 

But all those things that they don't do, ensures that their cost of living is kept low, so we in the West can buy cheaper smartphones.

 

Should we be blaming the Chinese 100% or do we share some of the blame (we, being the West rather than just Saintsweb). Admittedly there seems no apetite from the Chinese Gov't to instigate the appropriate policies, but is that influenced economically in order to keep manufacturing in the country and therefore continue the influx of cold hard cash?

[Whitey Grandad]

I'm guessing you've all seen Wuhan market on youtube. If this virus did come from bats it's no surprise it started there. A similar situation with ebola and the desire for "bush meat". Keep people out of the forests seems to be the answer to preventing these viruses passing from animals to humans. In Africa I imagine poverty drives people into the forests in search of food. Can the same be said for Wuhan and China though?

 

I saw and article somewhere (BBC website?) saying that the Chinese government’s drive to increase chicken production had driven poorer former chicken farmers out to the fringes of the forests and that they had turned to more exotic species.

[whelk]

Eh? That’s exactly what I’m saying.

 

 

 

It’s ridiculous that this kind of thing is allowed in a developed country. In Britain you’d get closed down for having rats under the fridge, whilst the Chinese have their carcasses hanging by their tails in the open air.

 

No sanitation

No veterinary checks or treatment

No quality control

No refrigeration

No proper cooking or temperature checks

No sell by dates

No hygiene control for either hands or food preparation areas

No restriction on who is allowed into food preparation areas

 

I’ve worked in kitchens and restaurants at college and there were manuals and regulations as thick as the yellow pages we had to comply with. We had different colour mops because even with a bucket of industrial bleach, you’re not allowed to use the same mops in the kitchen, dining area or toilet facilities. These wet markets have nothing, it’s complete bandit country.

 

Yeah sorry misread your post.

[stknowle]

Not that I support any violence or discrimination against Chinese individuals but as a country they have to take the flak for this. The conditions which lead to this situations are almost entirely of their making, from the appalling, insanitary conditions animals are kept in in urban areas to the government denials, cover ups and R.I.P. three thousand victims and definitely not 21 million.

 

I dislike and disagree with Trump on pretty much every level but I don’t take issue with him or anyone else calling it the ‘Chinese virus’. As if this could have popped up in any random country and they were just the unlucky victims.

 

Agree 100%.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The thing is, SARS should have been a wake up call for these ****ing idiots. You can bet your bottom dollar the next virus will come out of China again, I bet they don’t close these markets, stop eating or doing whatever they do with these animals.

 

Imagine the lefties outrage if this had come from Chlorinated chicken, yet we mustn’t call it the Chinese virus.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[shurlock]

Not that I support any violence or discrimination against Chinese individuals but as a country they have to take the flak for this. The conditions which lead to this situations are almost entirely of their making, from the appalling, insanitary conditions animals are kept in in urban areas to the government denials, cover ups and R.I.P. three thousand victims and definitely not 21 million.

 

I dislike and disagree with Trump on pretty much every level but I don’t take issue with him or anyone else calling it the ‘Chinese virus’. As if this could have popped up in any random country and they were just the unlucky victims.

 

To be clear, Trump is trying to pin the outbreak on a government lab rather than wet markets as if the former makes ‘China’ more culpable. So far the evidence for that hypothesis is pretty weak, even according to the US own intelligence agencies.

[hypochondriac]

To be clear, Trump is trying to pin the outbreak on a government lab rather than wet markets as if the former makes ‘China’ more culpable. So far the evidence for that hypothesis is pretty weak, even according to the US own intelligence agencies.

And he's wrong to do so but he's correct when he refers to it as the Chinese virus.

[shurlock]

And he's wrong to do so but he's correct when he refers to it as the Chinese virus.

 

Clearly the virus originated in China and the government is responsible for the horrendous state of many of its wet markets. I have seen many with my own eyes. There will rightly be a reckoning at some point. As such I don’t understand the additional value or purpose of the term. And let’s not be coy: it’s not just a neutral descriptor but is knowingly being used by some to whip up dubious passions and prejudices. Fine it might be cathartic but it is also naive politically as the CCP is expert at exploiting this type of rhetoric to massage it’s own sense of victimhood which is the defining feature of Chinese nationalism. Frankly I wouldn’t give them any ammunition.

Edited 30 April, 2020 by shurlock

[hypochondriac]

Clearly the virus originated in China and the government is responsible for the horrendous state of many of its wet markets. I have seen many with my own eyes. There will rightly be a reckoning at some point. As such I don’t understand the additional value or purpose of the term. And let’s not be coy: it’s not just a neutral descriptor but is knowingly being used by some to whip up dubious passions and prejudices. Fine it might be cathartic but it is also naive politically as the CCP is expert at exploiting this type of rhetoric to massage it’s own sense of victimhood which is the defining feature of Chinese nationalism. Frankly I wouldn’t give them any ammunition.

...

[shurlock]

As I say, you're incredibly naive but I guess its not your fault.

[Lighthouse]

But all those things that they don't do, ensures that their cost of living is kept low, so we in the West can buy cheaper smartphones.

 

Should we be blaming the Chinese 100% or do we share some of the blame (we, being the West rather than just Saintsweb). Admittedly there seems no apetite from the Chinese Gov't to instigate the appropriate policies, but is that influenced economically in order to keep manufacturing in the country and therefore continue the influx of cold hard cash?

 

I’m as guilty as anyone of buying stuff made in China but that’s not anything I have an input in. Perhaps from now on I’ll make more of an effort to buy ethically sourced produce but China needs to change or this will just keep on happening.

 

To be clear, Trump is trying to pin the outbreak on a government lab rather than wet markets as if the former makes ‘China’ more culpable. So far the evidence for that hypothesis is pretty weak, even according to the US own intelligence agencies.

 

Not denying the guy is a complete whack job with dementia and the lab conspiracy sounds like nonsense to me. Simply the term ‘Chinese virus’ is as legitimate as the ‘Soviet nuclear disaster’ IMO, should you wish to call it that. Personally I just used ‘Covid 19’.

[aintforever]

And he's wrong to do so but he's correct when he refers to it as the Chinese virus.

 

We all know where it originated but I don’t see what is achieved by calling it “Chinese” instead of its name, except for fuelling more racist abuse like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-51961158

 

What exactly are you hoping to achieve?

[benjii]

60 tonnes of PPE donated to the NHS by the UAE arrived on a plane from China yesterday.

 

Great success!

Edited 1 May, 2020 by benjii

[hypochondriac]

We all know where it originated but I don’t see what is achieved by calling it “Chinese” instead of its name, except for fuelling more racist abuse like this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-51961158

 

What exactly are you hoping to achieve?

"I" haven't reffered to it as that but I have no problem with someone who wants to. Its important to remember where this has come from and who has to take a large amount of responsibility. Lots of people want to pretend it isn't China who is largely responsible or even worse want to call it racism. Calling it the Chinese virus is a good way to combat that. China lied and people died.

[aintforever]

"I" haven't reffered to it as that but I have no problem with someone who wants to. Its important to remember where this has come from and who has to take a large amount of responsibility. Lots of people want to pretend it isn't China who is largely responsible or even worse want to call it racism. Calling it the Chinese virus is a good way to combat that. China lied and people died.

 

Just seems unnecessary to me, we all know where it started, are you seriously going to forget?

 

Who cares if a few people get attacked or abused though eh?

[saint1977]

Clearly the virus originated in China and the government is responsible for the horrendous state of many of its wet markets. I have seen many with my own eyes. There will rightly be a reckoning at some point. As such I don’t understand the additional value or purpose of the term. And let’s not be coy: it’s not just a neutral descriptor but is knowingly being used by some to whip up dubious passions and prejudices. Fine it might be cathartic but it is also naive politically as the CCP is expert at exploiting this type of rhetoric to massage it’s own sense of victimhood which is the defining feature of Chinese nationalism. Frankly I wouldn’t give them any ammunition.

 

Agree with this. China needs to clean up its act on the wet markets which are abhorrent but that can be dealt with internationally once COVID is under control. What Trump is doing is pure nationalism and xenophobia which is a fig leaf for the real issues his administration and indeed Obama’s had with the Chinese which includes the hundreds of billion dollars of IP violations. I’ve no time whatsoever for the Chinese government and it was great watching HK giving them a bloody nose.

 

The issue is that Trump is knowingly stirring up the far right, and very specifically Neo Nazi elements in his fanbase against measures to protect the majority in that state. You can see it in Michigan. People will moan that I’ve used the term far right but have a look at the photos of the people threatening state troopers and legislature with guns, elected by the people of Michigan. A Neo Nazi is a Neo Nazi and we saw him do it in Charlottesville. The fact this is pure electioneering, and the judges are calling it out as that, is just revolting. The Republican Party is going to need a huge clear up after Agent Orange has dropped off his senile perch.

[hypochondriac]

Just seems unnecessary to me, we all know where it started, are you seriously going to forget?

 

Who cares if a few people get attacked or abused though eh?

That's an odd thing to say considering my very first post on the subject said that anyone being racist or attacking Chinese people should be severely punished. Not using the term and not making it clear that Chinese failures have contributed massively to the loss of life isn't going to stop racist idiots from being racist idiots though. In reality and unfortunately these attacks would have happened regardless. I think when the Chinese propagandists are doing everything to shift the blame and the scrutiny from them that providing a reminder every so often that they are responsible is a good thing.

[jawillwill]

I'm guessing you've all seen Wuhan market on youtube. If this virus did come from bats it's no surprise it started there. A similar situation with ebola and the desire for "bush meat". Keep people out of the forests seems to be the answer to preventing these viruses passing from animals to humans. In Africa I imagine poverty drives people into the forests in search of food. Can the same be said for Wuhan and China though?

 

 

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment that such markets are vile and zoonic diseases clearly can originate from them, your whole argument is discredited by the fact that video is not Wuhan. Its in Indonesia, thousands of miles away. About the same as claiming a market in London is similar to one of that in Libya, in terms of distance away.

 

Such diseases don't necessarily originate purely from poor hygiene in the markets. Pathogens effectively jump from a host species (e.g. Bats) to a new host (eg humans) and evolve. The rate that this happens is exacerbated by things like wildlife trafficking, but also other wider human factors such as habitat destruction (which happens all around the world) or climate change (being driven largely by more developed countries) - these threats to the environment drive humans and animals closer together and increase the risk of diseases spreading.

 

In terms of poverty. I think it's easy for people to forget, that despite the size of its economy, China is not a developed country. Far from it, and it still has huge amounts of poverty, especially in places away from the bigger, more well known cities. Unfortunately, people still need to eat.

 

Yes, I'm sure governments around the world a keen to pin the blame for the outbreak on China (who no doubt hold some responsibility) but calling it the 'Chinese virus' benefits literally nobody (except those looking for cheap votes) and could easily lead to discrimination / unfair persecution against millions of people. One of my neighbours told me the other day that they had been verbally abused in the street (teenagers doing Chinese accents/pretending to cough etc in relation to coronavirus). My neighbour is of Asian origin but not even Chinese. Might seem like nothing, but this kind of behaviour has the potential to be toxic and I can guarantee is not an isolated incident. A simple action like calling the virus by its proper name is likely to help reduce such utterly retarded behaviour.

[Johnny Bognor]

s, I'm sure governments around the world a keen to pin the blame for the outbreak on China (who no doubt hold some responsibility) but calling it the 'Chinese virus' benefits literally nobody (except those looking for cheap votes) and could easily lead to discrimination / unfair persecution against millions of people. One of my neighbours told me the other day that they had been verbally abused in the street (teenagers doing Chinese accents/pretending to cough etc in relation to coronavirus). My neighbour is of Asian origin but not even Chinese. Might seem like nothing, but this kind of behaviour has the potential to be toxic and I can guarantee is not an isolated incident. A simple action like calling the virus by its proper name is likely to help reduce such utterly retarded behaviour.

 

Maybe, but the Chinese haven't exactly helped themselves with their treatment of people with African origin

[benjii]

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment that such markets are vile and zoonic diseases clearly can originate from them, your whole argument is discredited by the fact that video is not Wuhan. Its in Indonesia, thousands of miles away. About the same as claiming a market in London is similar to one of that in Libya, in terms of distance away.

 

Such diseases don't necessarily originate purely from poor hygiene in the markets. Pathogens effectively jump from a host species (e.g. Bats) to a new host (eg humans) and evolve. The rate that this happens is exacerbated by things like wildlife trafficking, but also other wider human factors such as habitat destruction (which happens all around the world) or climate change (being driven largely by more developed countries) - these threats to the environment drive humans and animals closer together and increase the risk of diseases spreading.

 

In terms of poverty. I think it's easy for people to forget, that despite the size of its economy, China is not a developed country. Far from it, and it still has huge amounts of poverty, especially in places away from the bigger, more well known cities. Unfortunately, people still need to eat.

 

Yes, I'm sure governments around the world a keen to pin the blame for the outbreak on China (who no doubt hold some responsibility) but calling it the 'Chinese virus' benefits literally nobody (except those looking for cheap votes) and could easily lead to discrimination / unfair persecution against millions of people. One of my neighbours told me the other day that they had been verbally abused in the street (teenagers doing Chinese accents/pretending to cough etc in relation to coronavirus). My neighbour is of Asian origin but not even Chinese. Might seem like nothing, but this kind of behaviour has the potential to be toxic and I can guarantee is not an isolated incident. A simple action like calling the virus by its proper name is likely to help reduce such utterly retarded behaviour.

 

Great post.

 

And whilst certain Asian populations seem to have a callous disregard for suffering in general, both human and animal, I'd wager that if any of us spent a day in an industrial abbatoir in the West we'd be pretty appalled at how we treat animals too.

[Lighthouse]

Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment that such markets are vile and zoonic diseases clearly can originate from them, your whole argument is discredited by the fact that video is not Wuhan. Its in Indonesia, thousands of miles away. About the same as claiming a market in London is similar to one of that in Libya, in terms of distance away.

 

Such diseases don't necessarily originate purely from poor hygiene in the markets. Pathogens effectively jump from a host species (e.g. Bats) to a new host (eg humans) and evolve. The rate that this happens is exacerbated by things like wildlife trafficking, but also other wider human factors such as habitat destruction (which happens all around the world) or climate change (being driven largely by more developed countries) - these threats to the environment drive humans and animals closer together and increase the risk of diseases spreading.

 

In terms of poverty. I think it's easy for people to forget, that despite the size of its economy, China is not a developed country. Far from it, and it still has huge amounts of poverty, especially in places away from the bigger, more well known cities. Unfortunately, people still need to eat.

 

Yes, I'm sure governments around the world a keen to pin the blame for the outbreak on China (who no doubt hold some responsibility) but calling it the 'Chinese virus' benefits literally nobody (except those looking for cheap votes) and could easily lead to discrimination / unfair persecution against millions of people. One of my neighbours told me the other day that they had been verbally abused in the street (teenagers doing Chinese accents/pretending to cough etc in relation to coronavirus). My neighbour is of Asian origin but not even Chinese. Might seem like nothing, but this kind of behaviour has the potential to be toxic and I can guarantee is not an isolated incident. A simple action like calling the virus by its proper name is likely to help reduce such utterly retarded behaviour.

 

If that video is not of China then fair enough but the point still stands. There are markets in China very similar with dead snake, bat, owl, lizard, dog or whatever you want piled up on tables in the open air, spreading pathogens like wildfire. It’s not like comparing London to Libya at all. In distance maybe but in terms of hygiene it’s more like comparing Brixton to Croydon.

 

I fully agree that we need to try and reduce habitat destruction and climate change, which is why many countries MUST get their population under control. China to be fair made a good go of that already with the one child policy. Now they’ve got the worlds second largest economy, there’s no excuse for these wet markets. This is a country with a space programme. They haven’t been to war since Vietnam and they’ve spent over $4bn on a new fighter jet programme. The money is there to build some chicken farms, inner city cold storage units and run a Chinese DEFRA if they wanted to.

 

It’s not a case of pinning the blame on China and them holding some of the responsibility. They ARE responsible, they should take the blame and it is their fault. Like I said, I don’t call it the Chinese virus for the reasons you’ve just highlighted but neither will I pretend we’re all in this together and they were just the first, unfortunate victims. Aside from anything else, their attempts to keep everything quiet and arresting doctors for trying to warn them is nothing short of atrocious.

[aintforever]

Not using the term and not making it clear that Chinese failures have contributed massively to the loss of life isn't going to stop racist idiots from being racist idiots though. In reality and unfortunately these attacks would have happened regardless.

 

But the language used, especially from anyone high-profile can these encourage idiots, we all know that.

 

Given that we all know where the virus started (we have had nothing but Wohan - virus - China - Death in the news for month now) calling it Chinese Virus seems unnecessary. Would you call it "Chinese Virus" in front of Chinese friends?

[jawillwill]

Maybe, but the Chinese haven't exactly helped themselves with their treatment of people with African origin

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. I doubt people calling it the Chinese virus are doing it as a show of solidarity for those of African origin.

[Tamesaint]

Would you call it "Chinese Virus" in front of Chinese friends?

 

I don't expect that many of the people who call it the "Chinese virus" have any Chinese friends.

[shurlock]

I don't expect that many of the people who call it the "Chinese virus" have any Chinese friends.

 

Hypo knows everyone.

[Doctoroncall]

New test to find COVID 19 carriers within 24 hours - pre infectious state.

 

In what could be a significant breakthrough, project coordinators hope the blood-based test will be able to detect the virus’s presence as early as 24 hours after infection – before people show symptoms and several days before a carrier is considered capable of spreading it to other people. That is also around four days before current tests can detect the virus.

 

The test has emerged from a project set up by the US military’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) aimed at rapid diagnosis of germ or chemical warfare poisoning. It was hurriedly repurposed when the pandemic broke out and the new test is expected to be put forward for emergency use approval (EUA) by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) within a week.

 

“The concept fills a diagnostic gap worldwide,” the head of Darpa’s biological technologies office, Dr Brad Ringeisen, told the Guardian, since it should also fill in testing gaps at later stages of the infection. If given FDA approval, he said, it had the potential to be “absolutely a gamechanger”.