Coronavirus

[badgerx16]

One of my daughter's friends makes costumes, prostethics, and SFX. She has collaborated with a well known "film star" to make this public information film.

( I hope the link works ).

 

[video=facebook_share;10215054733111316]https://www.facebook.com/charleyburling/videos/10215054733111316/UzpfSTUxNTk3Mzg2MDoxMDE1NzIyNTM2Njk4ODg2MQ/

[Lighthouse]

I am not condoning just saying catching tube makes mockery of other precautions- I’d sh1t myself if it was me

 

It may seem that way but if you are unfortunate enough to rely on the tube, you should be doing everything possible to minimise the risk in other aspects of your life.

 

It’s like driving down a motorway at 130mph and saying, "well, it’s really dangerous anyway, so I might as well have a beer and take my seatbelt off."

[whelk]

It may seem that way but if you are unfortunate enough to rely on the tube, you should be doing everything possible to minimise the risk in other aspects of your life.

 

It’s like driving down a motorway at 130mph and saying, "well, it’s really dangerous anyway, so I might as well have a beer and take my seatbelt off."

 

Ok keeping with your analogy, if govt tell you you have have no alternative but to drive at 130mph every day otherwise you will lose your job but on Sundays stick to 60mph because anything faster is very dangerous and we don’t want anyone to be dangerous you’d suck it up?

[hypochondriac]

I am not condoning just saying catching tube makes mockery of other precautions- I’d sh1t myself if it was me

Well it doesn't really because you have a chance of catching it and spreading it on the tube AND to close friends and family if you're mixing with them. Surely the sensible thing to do is to minimise the different people you are mixing with which will reduce the amount of people you spread it to. It isn't rocket science.

[Lighthouse]

Ok keeping with your analogy, if govt tell you you have have no alternative but to drive at 130mph every day otherwise you will lose your job but on Sundays stick to 60mph because anything faster is very dangerous and we don’t want anyone to be dangerous you’d suck it up?

 

Yes, absolutely. That Sunday is my one chance when I have a reduced risk of killing myself and other people. It would come as a welcome relief from having to drive at terrifying speeds the rest of the week.

 

The alternative is killing people because it somehow seems more fair.

[whelk]

Well it doesn't really because you have a chance of catching it and spreading it on the tube AND to close friends and family if you're mixing with them. Surely the sensible thing to do is to minimise the different people you are mixing with which will reduce the amount of people you spread it to. It isn't rocket science.

 

Thanks for explaining something so complex.

 

Too much sanctimony and not enough understanding of human psychology and empathy,

[Whitey Grandad]

What example? People meeting loved ones by definition increases the chances of the virus being spread between households. It's a selfish and irresponsible thing to do and it makes me angry to know that people are deliberately flouting the guidelines because they can't stay inside for a few weeks. Loads of people are doing what they are supposed to be doing and staying home, it's a pity that some people are simply incapable. As someone suggested earlier, maybe those actually being sensible should be the ones given preferential treatment for the disease if it comes to a point where a choice has to be made.

The example of apparently older people being seen out with what appear to be very young people.

[Whitey Grandad]

Individuals freely mixing between households- if that is what is happening- is a direct threat to everyone else and that attitude will be contributing to more deaths and keeping the lockdown going on longer.

 

I agree, that is very wrong, but we have no way of knowing the circumstances of the people we see.

 

Just suppose, a single mother with two young children is an anaesthetist at a local hospital. Who looks after her kids on a Good Friday?

 

Two grandparents have their grandchildren living with them. There is nothing wrong with them all going out together.

[Whitey Grandad]

There is clearly a party going on in a garden near us. Would love the police to raid the fckers

 

Now that is what really annoys me. The police won’t raid because they’re too busy scaring off sunbathers.

[hypochondriac]

Thanks for explaining something so complex.

 

Too much sanctimony and not enough understanding of human psychology and empathy,

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting I'm lacking empathy because I don't understand why grandparents would want to see their grandchildren? I know full well how painful and upsetting it has been for grandparents- not least my own who haven't seen their granddaughter in a month. It's not sanctimony at all, it's a basic request that if adhered to by enough people is clearly going to save lives, possibly of people you love. Some people would rather run the risk though because they don't think it will happen to them. I know who is really lacking empathy in this situation.

[hypochondriac]

I agree, that is very wrong, but we have no way of knowing the circumstances of the people we see.

 

Just suppose, a single mother with two young children is an anaesthetist at a local hospital. Who looks after her kids on a Good Friday?

 

Two grandparents have their grandchildren living with them. There is nothing wrong with them all going out together.

I was talking more generally about this sense that if you are out working without ppe that it's then OK to go and meet people from other households. The example given could very well have been people from the same house so I wouldn't be able to comment on that specific case.

[hypochondriac]

I agree, that is very wrong, but we have no way of knowing the circumstances of the people we see.

 

Just suppose, a single mother with two young children is an anaesthetist at a local hospital. Who looks after her kids on a Good Friday?

 

Two grandparents have their grandchildren living with them. There is nothing wrong with them all going out together.

 

I wouldn't condemn people I see for that reason unless it's blatantly obvious they are being irresponsible. Some schools and childcare facilities were open on Friday and are open on Monday by the way for that exact purpose to avoid sending children to elderly relatives.

[Whitey Grandad]

I was talking more generally about this sense that if you are out working without ppe that it's then OK to go and meet people from other households. The example given could very well have been people from the same house so I wouldn't be able to comment on that specific case.

 

Agreed. We cannot comment on people we see out having a walk because we don’t know their circumstances. But people like my neighbours who obviously had some smalll gathering going on yesterday in their back garden are wasting all the sacrifices that most of us are making.

[Whitey Grandad]

I wouldn't condemn people I see for that reason unless it's blatantly obvious they are being irresponsible. Some schools and childcare facilities were open on Friday and are open on Monday by the way for that exact purpose to avoid sending children to elderly relatives.

My daughter is classified as a key worker. She supervises the dinner ladies at our local infant school. Two weeks ago they had 60 children in the school. A week ago they had four.

[hypochondriac]

My daughter is classified as a key worker. She supervises the dinner ladies at our local infant school. Two weeks ago they had 60 children in the school. A week ago they had four.

What's your point?

[Batman]

Little insight

 

 

[The Cat]

Now that is what really annoys me. The police won’t raid because they’re too busy scaring off sunbathers.

 

They definitely will if so

[The Cat]

Now that is what really annoys me. The police won’t raid because they’re too busy scaring off sunbathers.

 

Not sure what happened with the post above. But they will go and close it down if someone tells them.

[Weston Super Saint]

So it’s alright if they go to work but not if they see the family, this is the message you’re happy to go along with?

 

Get out there and work, mix with as many people as you like inside the workplace (good luck if you can maintain a safe distance from everyone) but don’t you fücking dare leave the house outside of work hours unless its essential, and tough shît if you miss out on your grandchildren growing up.

 

Rightly or wrongly, do you not see why people are ignoring the rules?

 

WTF?

 

Where have you got the whole work thing from in my example?

 

Old people - and I specifically stated people who looked older than 60 - were out walking with younger people (it looked like children and grandchildren). There were also lots of other people on the 'promenade' at the same time - some walking, some jogging, some playing with dogs etc. The very nature of the promenade in Weston means that it is impossible to keep the advised level of seperation in most places.

 

I'm also not sure if you understand that 'most' grandparents don't work, it's also very unlikely that those who do will work in key roles and will be required to attend day in day out. Not only that, the Government has already insisted that older people should avoid work for the next 12 weeks - something about a virus that may be deadly for them....

 

So the only reason I can see for people ignoring the rules is because they really don't give a ****!

[The Cat]

Little insight

 

 

 

Interesting thread. There's also this to consider:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/revealed-value-of-uk-pandemic-stockpile-fell-by-40-in-six-years

[Weston Super Saint]

My daughter is classified as a key worker. She supervises the dinner ladies at our local infant school. Two weeks ago they had 60 children in the school. A week ago they had four.

 

Maybe the grandparents are now all looking after the kids, because hey, they all mix together at the weekend anyway, so why not?

 

Either that or - and try and keep up here - it's now Easter holidays! Maybe one of the parents had already booked time off for the Easter break so they could care for their children. Who knows, but stranger things have happened!

[Weston Super Saint]

So it’s alright if they go to work but not if they see the family, this is the message you’re happy to go along with?

 

 

Yes, this is exactly the message I am happy to go along with.

 

Like most people I had plans for the Easter weekend with my family, which I have had to cancel due to that exact message - and yes, I do still go to work every day, although I'm not 'forced' to do so, I fully understand the risks present and am happy to follow the guidelines in place so as not to spread the virus.

[Badger]

Little insight

 

 

 

See Rupert adding his two-penneth....

[Whitey Grandad]

What's your point?

 

That there is now very little need for schools to act as childminders.

[Whitey Grandad]

Maybe the grandparents are now all looking after the kids, because hey, they all mix together at the weekend anyway, so why not?

 

Either that or - and try and keep up here - it's now Easter holidays! Maybe one of the parents had already booked time off for the Easter break so they could care for their children. Who knows, but stranger things have happened!

 

You didn’t say which day this was. Anyway, key workers tend to have to work bank holidays too.

 

We just don’t know.

[hypochondriac]

That there is now very little need for schools to act as childminders.

But as you just demonstrated with your point about NHS workers having no one but grandparents to look after children, there is still a need even if it's small.

[Weston Super Saint]

The Financial Times has seen a chart which has been circulated to clinicians - which will ask them to "score" thousands of patients to decide who is suitable for intensive care treatment. The categories used to judge people are reportedly someone's age, frailty and if they have any underlying conditions. The paper says that although clinical discretion could come into play - any patient over the age of 70 will be considered "borderline" for treatment.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/d738b2c6-000a-421b-9dbd-f85e6b333684 (I haven't read it as I don't subscribe to FT).

 

Odd then that you can see so many people around this age out and about as if nothing has changed. Pretty sure this isn't 'new' news and has been the same since the start of the pandemic.

[whelk]

https://www.ft.com/content/d738b2c6-000a-421b-9dbd-f85e6b333684 (I haven't read it as I don't subscribe to FT).

 

Odd then that you can see so many people around this age out and about as if nothing has changed. Pretty sure this isn't 'new' news and has been the same since the start of the pandemic.

 

Over 70s can exercise.

 

You find it odd and makes you mad is because you pretty much struggle to grasp things.

Do you think my behaviour would completely change if I saw a chart saying some might get preferential treatment over handsome, tall, intelligent, charismatic people -that’s me btw :-)

[bpsaint]

Discussing the end of the lockdown on various channels this morning - what are people’s opinions on this? It’s very much a human lives vs economic disaster decision. Surely we won’t end it tomorrow with the 3 weeks being up until death rates fall? Like everyone though I fear the long term damage economically for us and generations to follow.

[badgerx16]

Discussing the end of the lockdown on various channels this morning - what are people’s opinions on this? It’s very much a human lives vs economic disaster decision. Surely we won’t end it tomorrow with the 3 weeks being up until death rates fall? Like everyone though I fear the long term damage economically for us and generations to follow.

If the death rate starts to fall such that they slacken off the lockdown, there is a significant risk that infection rates will begin to rise again as there is more social interaction. I think they are trying to maintain a 'manageable' infection rate so that we maintain the NHS' capabilities. It is only once there is a more effective treatment, especially a vaccine, that things will be able to approach 'normal' again.

[Whitey Grandad]

But as you just demonstrated with your point about NHS workers having no one but grandparents to look after children, there is still a need even if it's small.

 

Yes, definitely a need but the schools aren’t open on weekends or bank holidays and the need is still there. The lockdown arrangements have to take account of this.

[Whitey Grandad]

If the death rate starts to fall such that they slacken off the lockdown, there is a significant risk that infection rates will begin to rise again as there is more social interaction. I think they are trying to maintain a 'manageable' infection rate so that we maintain the NHS' capabilities. It is only once there is a more effective treatment, especially a vaccine, that things will be able to approach 'normal' again.

 

It’s not that easy to manage the death rate by regulating the lockdown but even if we could sustain it within the NHS capabilities we would be looking at many more months of this.

 

I reckon we’ve got three more weeks at least.

[hypochondriac]

Yes, definitely a need but the schools aren’t open on weekends or bank holidays and the need is still there. The lockdown arrangements have to take account of this.

Childcare establishments have been opening on bank Holidays and weekends during this crisis and they are also taking older children in some cases.

[badgerx16]

It’s not that easy to manage the death rate by regulating the lockdown but even if we could sustain it within the NHS capabilities we would be looking at many more months of this.

 

I reckon we’ve got three more weeks at least.

I think 6 weeks minimum, and even then it could well be reinstated,

[RedArmy]

https://www.ft.com/content/d738b2c6-000a-421b-9dbd-f85e6b333684 (I haven't read it as I don't subscribe to FT).

 

Odd then that you can see so many people around this age out and about as if nothing has changed. Pretty sure this isn't 'new' news and has been the same since the start of the pandemic.

Unless they’re out and about licking door handles and standing nose to nose with people, what’s the problem?

 

There’s a 1 in 200 chance you’ll die in a car crash in your lifetime, why do so many people own cars?

[hypochondriac]

Unless they’re out and about licking door handles and standing nose to nose with people, what’s the problem?

 

There’s a 1 in 200 chance you’ll die in a car crash in your lifetime, why do so many people own cars?

Its official: this poster is as thick as anyone who has ever posted on here. Attitudes like yours are dangerous and I advocate for stricter government measures primarily because I know there are other cretins who think in similar ways and they need saving from themselves as much as anything else.

 

If everyone felt the same as you this would go on for far longer than is necessary, do even worse damage to the economy and cost many unnecessary lives. You're pig ignorant and dangerous.

Edited 13 April, 2020 by hypochondriac

[RedArmy]

Its official: this poster is as thick as anyone who has ever posted on here. Attitudes like yours are dangerous and I advocate for stricter government measures primarily because I know there are other cretins who think in similar ways and they need saving from themselves as much as anything else.

Going for a walk isn’t dangerous you moron. Get a grip of yourself, you’re hysterical, stricter measures

[hypochondriac]

Going for a walk isn’t dangerous you moron. Get a grip of yourself, you’re hysterical, stricter measures [emoji38]

Being in an at risk group and going out unnecessarily, meeting grandchildren who don't live with you etc is selfish and irresponsible and you're a selfish pr*ck and incredibly thick if you try to argue otherwise. I hope you don't get it and pass it on to others.

[RedArmy]

The government are perfectly happy for nearly half of workers to still be going out to work every day, which is keeping the virus spreading, but going to the park is the real issue here and is going to cause the lockdown to stay in place for longer.

 

You really don’t live in the real world do you

[hypochondriac]

The government are perfectly happy for nearly half of workers to still be going out to work every day, which is keeping the virus spreading, but going to the park is the real issue here and is going to cause the lockdown to stay in place for longer.

 

You really don’t live in the real world do you

Someone else will have to have a go. Penetrating a skull this dense is proving an impossible task.

[ooh it's a corner]

As soon as Google/Apple/Microsoft and co finish their homework, I am certain that any "NHS" scoring tool (as provided by these tech giants) will also include personal movement.

 

So, if you are a fit 25 year old, but have not been following the rules, you might find yourself at the back of the treatment queue.

[hypochondriac]

As soon as Google/Apple/Microsoft and co finish their homework, I am certain that any "NHS" scoring tool (as provided by these tech giants) will also include personal movement.

 

So, if you are a fit 25 year old, but have not been following the rules, you might find yourself at the back of the treatment queue.

Let's hope so. The likes of red army can get behind my parents for a start.

[aintforever]

The government are perfectly happy for nearly half of workers to still be going out to work every day, which is keeping the virus spreading, but going to the park is the real issue here and is going to cause the lockdown to stay in place for longer.

 

You really don’t live in the real world do you

 

People have to work, they don’t have to go sunbathing - that’s the difference.

 

All workplaces should be following guidelines to minimise the risk as well.

[hypochondriac]

People have to work, they don’t have to go sunbathing - that’s the difference.

 

All workplaces should be following guidelines to minimise the risk as well.

Precisely. I fail to see how it's a difficult concept to grasp.

[whelk]

As soon as Google/Apple/Microsoft and co finish their homework, I am certain that any "NHS" scoring tool (as provided by these tech giants) will also include personal movement.

 

So, if you are a fit 25 year old, but have not been following the rules, you might find yourself at the back of the treatment queue.

 

You think they will collate that data?!

 

Differentiate between key worker, those exercising, those responding to community needs supporting the vulnerable? Not a chance

[Whitey Grandad]

Precisely. I fail to see how it's a difficult concept to grasp.

 

Because sunbathing is never going to involve catching the disease or passing it on to another.

 

It’s also good for your vitamin D.

[RedArmy]

People have to work, they don’t have to go sunbathing - that’s the difference.

 

All workplaces should be following guidelines to minimise the risk as well.

People have to work so that someone can order a new T-shirt, or a new vase for the mantelpiece or lay some grass in their garden? Because these are the types of businesses that are still operating, and you’re incredibly naive to think it’s possible to maintain social distancing inside those buildings.

 

Where have I said it’s ok to sunbathe?

[Jonnyboy]

Not shutting the schools is one of the better decisions made by the government. If they've got any sense keep them open until the Easter holiday.

 

This thread makes fascinating reading.

[ooh it's a corner]

You think they will collate that data?!

 

Differentiate between key worker, those exercising, those responding to community needs supporting the vulnerable? Not a chance

 

I think they already are collating the data. But before I offer my opinion, I do need to say I am not someone who works for any organisation involved in this, I am someone who understands how data works, but these are my opinions, not necessarily the gospel truth.

 

So the question is how do you spot the difference between somebody moving about lawfully and somebody moving about unlawfully?

 

If you have a phone contract, the phone company knows where you live and has validated that data with a credit reference check, using electoral roll, credit cards etc..

 

So, my mobile phone, switched on, in my front room, is being recorded as an "at home" device. Assuming I take my phone with me, when I leave, then my device ceases being "at home".

 

Now, the point regarding how could a data expert differentiate between someone doing good in their community and someone flauting the law, is all about being stationary. So visiting your aging family, is likely to involve a stop reaching into a few minutes. Even if you stop for a natter (obviously at a safe distance), maybe 20 minutes. But, having a BBQ with your mates, is likely to run for at least 1 hour, if not several hours. At that point, the patterns will emerge.

 

Within 7000 metres of my home, there are 603 mobile signal masts. Given the ability to triangulate my position, the data is available (not publicly) to identify my phone's position to within 5 metres, probably even 2m.

https://www.mastdata.com/37/37_map_mobile_mast.aspx?Table=15&AdTyID=43&ROName=so17%201pq&Z=14

 

So, think of a wider gathering, like my neighbour's recent BBQs. Ten people turn up and spend several hours in the same place, which is not their registered home address.

 

That would stand-out like a sore thumb, for the data folks.

 

I do agree Whelk, spotting the micro-differences will be hard, but spotting the obvious law-breakers, will be easy.

 

Whether those details are used to determine pecking order for an ICU bed, remains to be seen.

 

But I have no doubt the data is there, being collected. Whether it is being modelled in the way I think it is, is up for debate.

Edited 13 April, 2020 by ooh it's a corner

[Weston Super Saint]

Over 70s can exercise.

 

 

Not only CAN they, but they most definitely should - and that goes for all age groups not just over 70s.

 

The point is, how they used to exercise - going for a walk along the beach with family / friends surrounded by other people doing the same thing - needs to be adjusted.

 

Unless of course the local councils have closed off pretty much every car park / beauty spot 'just for a laugh'.