Coronavirus

[Raging Bull]

We did Owton’s last week, meat is fantastic, we will not be going back to supermarket meat that’s for sure. Sirloin steak goes highly recommended

 

You know the meat is gonna be top draw from both.

[The Cat]

Owton's are quality. I thought everyone around Southampton already went there?

 

Unity have started home delivering if you need some decent beer.

[Jonnyboy]

Owton's are quality. I thought everyone around Southampton already went there?

 

Unity have started home delivering if you need some decent beer.

 

Link for unity?

[The Cat]

Link for unity?

 

https://unitybrewingco.com/

 

They are based near St Mary's but obviously their bar is shut. Free delivery over £30.

[so22saint]

Owton's are quality. I thought everyone around Southampton already went there?

 

Unity have started home delivering if you need some decent beer.

 

Another vote for Owton's. The meat in The Fulflood Friday night meat raffle in Winch is always from there and I was proud of my daughter in the summer when she went down to the beach of a posh (and ****y) hotel we were staying in with her stuff in one of the many Owton's carrier bags we have ;-). No D&G for her

[Doctoroncall]

Mortality rates for those in ICU:

 

 

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/b5f59585-5870-ea11-9124-00505601089b

[buctootim]

Mortality rates for those in ICU:

 

 

https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/b5f59585-5870-ea11-9124-00505601089b

 

Those are pretty poor outcomes. In part its very likely due to the UK's extremely poor provision of ECMO units - which oxygenates blood when the lungs temporarily no longer can. It is hugely important in treatment of COVID-19. England has 5 adult units, Scotland Wales and NI have none. By contrast Japan has something like 1,300. Germany around 50. That may well explain their much lower death rates

[Guan 2.0]

Are companies like these 2 any good?

 

https://www.owtons.com/

 

https://www.musclefood.com/

 

I use muscle food all the time, they’re very good!

 

Owton's are quality. I thought everyone around Southampton already went there?

 

Unity have started home delivering if you need some decent beer.

 

Thank you to you both. I will pass that on.

 

Some very worried people will thank you!

[egg]

Those are pretty poor outcomes. In part its very likely due to the UK's extremely poor provision of ECMO units - which oxygenates blood when the lungs temporarily no longer can. It is hugely important in treatment of COVID-19. England has 5 adult units, Scotland Wales and NI have none. By contrast Japan has something like 1,300. Germany around 50. That may well explain their much lower death rates

Jeez, not very inspiring. I wandered why Germany had a much lower death rate than us.

[Batman]

Those are pretty poor outcomes. In part its very likely due to the UK's extremely poor provision of ECMO units - which oxygenates blood when the lungs temporarily no longer can. It is hugely important in treatment of COVID-19. England has 5 adult units, Scotland Wales and NI have none. By contrast Japan has something like 1,300. Germany around 50. That may well explain their much lower death rates

That is if the effects of the virus do not result in other health issues from killing you. Even if on 100% oxygen

[buctootim]

That is if the effects of the virus do not result in other health issue from killing you. Even if on 100% oxygen

 

What seems to be killing people is the severe pneumonia. Ventilators can only keep people breathing but are little help if the lungs are so flooded they can no longer exchange sufficient CO2 and oxygen. Thats why ECMO is so important - it keeps people alive until their immune system if able to fight the infection. Only 2% of CCU have them.

[Raging Bull]

Thank you to you both. I will pass that on.

 

Some very worried people will thank you!

 

No worries. I can’t speak for Owtens but MF send all chicken (if the right order is selected) vacuum packed and ready for the freezer. be warned though, muscle food spam the daylights out of you afterwards.

[Batman]

What seems to be killing people is the severe pneumonia. Ventilators can only keep people breathing but are little help if the lungs are so flooded they can no longer exchange sufficient CO2 and oxygen. Thats why ECMO is so important - it keeps people alive until their immune system if able to fight the infection. Only 2% of CCU have them.

If antibiotics do not work (for pneumonia), intubation or non-intrusive intubation is normally the way forward as that gets the air in the lungs.

 

"Ek-Mo" cleans CO2 from the blood but COVID is crippling people's lungs in the first place and causing severe issues for those with other serious health problems....and those who survive ICU will do well not to have lasting and in some cases severe scaring / damage to their respiritory system.

 

On another note, my mum is one of the 1.5m and her first weekly food parcel arrived yesterday.

Edited 28 March, 2020 by Batman

[buctootim]

If antibiotics do not work (for pneumonia), intubation or non-intrusive intubation is normally the way forward as that gets the air in the lungs.

 

"Ek-Mo" cleans CO2 from the blood but COVID is crippling people's lungs in the first place and causing severe issues for those with other serious health problems....and those who survive ICU will do well not to have lasting and in some cases severe scaring / damage to their respiritory system.

 

COVID-19 pneumonia is caused by a virus - antibiotics will have no effect. The whole point is that intubation alone isnt enough for some patients. If their lungs are full of fluid they cant exchange sufficient gases no matter how much you ventilate them or turn oxygen levels up.

[Batman]

COVID-19 pneumonia is caused by a virus - antibiotics will have no effect. The whole point is that intubation alone isnt enough for some patients. If their lungs are full of fluid they cant exchange sufficient gases no matter how much you ventilate them or turn oxygen levels up.

 

Edit

Edited 28 March, 2020 by Batman

[buctootim]

That is why they are intubated.... And in some cases on 100% oxygen.

 

FFs Jamie its pretty straight forward. Some milder case are given oxygen through a face mask. Severe cases are intubated and put on a ventilator. The most severe cases cannot make sufficient gas exchange even when intubated and on a ventilator and will die without access to ECMO.

[Batman]

FFs Jamie its pretty straight forward. Some milder case are given oxygen through a face mask. Severe cases are intubated and put on a ventilator. The most severe cases cannot make sufficient gas exchange even when intubated and on a ventilator and will die without access to ECMO.

Well, I have someone sat next to me who works in ICU and they dispute your point.

 

"EK-MO" et al that normally work for severe pneumonia is not working.

 

So just having 1000s more of these machines is miles from the silver bullet!!!

Edited 28 March, 2020 by Batman

[buctootim]

Well, I have someone sat next to me who works in ICU and they dispute your point.

 

 

 

So just having 1000s more of these machines is miles from the silver bullet!!!

 

Your GF is a nurse. Nurses are not trained in ECMO unless they are working in an ECMO unit

 

""EK-MO" et al that normally work for severe pneumonia is not working" If she said this, and personally I think you made it up to save face, it shows a fundamental ignorance of what ECMO is and does. Even the fact you spell it with a K betrays ignorance. Its Extra Corporeal Membrane Oxygenation. The corporeal being body.

Edited 28 March, 2020 by buctootim

[Batman]

Your GF is a nurse. Nurses are not trained in ECMO unless they are working in an ECMO unit

 

""EK-MO" et al that normally work for severe pneumonia is not working" If she said this, and personally I think you made it up to save face, it shows a fundamental ignorance of what ECMO is and does. Even the fact you spell it with a K betrays ignorance. Its Extra Corporal Membrane Oxygenation. The corporal being body.

Who said it's my GF and who said they are a nurse? I am not even at home!

 

Assumption right there.

 

My spelling was to show how their unit calls it...like Elmo...it is Ekmo

 

I will tell them to watch their ignorance

Edited 28 March, 2020 by Batman

[buctootim]

Who said it's my GF and who said they are a nurse?

 

I will tell them to watch their ignorance

 

Yep you should. Their opinion is in contradiction to NICE guidelines on treatment of COVID-19. If they really worked on an ECMO unit, which of course they don't because you made them up, they should recuse themselves from practice because they don't have the requisite knowledge.

 

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng159/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-critical-care-pdf-66141848681413

 

 

 

Haha. I see you changed your post again to remove the imaginary person working on an Elmo unit (arf)

[Lord Duckhunter]

Jeez, not very inspiring. I wandered why Germany had a much lower death rate than us.

 

Death rates are dependant on too many factors to draw many conclusions at this moment in time. Reporting isn’t standardised and clearly the numbers you test affect the %. There’s a clear difference between people who die of the virus and people who die with the virus.

 

The press reporting all these deaths and statistics is just frightening people and it’s irresponsible imo. People get scared if youngsters die, or middle aged people with no underlying condition, but is that reflective? My snap dragon had a conversation with a senior consultant at her work who made the point that many people may die with an undiagnosed underlying health condition, which will get reported as no underlying health condition. For example, If Fabrice Muamba caught and died of Coronavirus a month before the incident on the pitch, it would be a young man dying of the virus, with no underlying health condition. I’m not suggesting things get covered up, but there’s context to everything. I wouldn’t mind betting that as tragic as it’ll be, 99.9% of deaths will be the elderly, infirm, and the seriously ill. Unfortunately too many people want to score political points.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited 28 March, 2020 by Lord Duckhunter

[buctootim]

Death rates are dependant on too many factors to draw many conclusions at this moment in time. Reporting isn’t standardised and clearly the numbers you test affect the %. There’s a clear difference between people who die of the virus and people who die with the virus.

 

The press reporting all these deaths and statistics is just frightening people and it’s irresponsible imo. People get scared if youngsters die, or middle aged people with no underlying condition, but is that reflective? My snap dragon had a conversation with a senior consultant at her work who made the point that many people may die with an undiagnosed underlying health condition, which will get reported as no underlying health condition. For example, If Fabrice Muamba caught and died of Coronavirus a month before the incident on the pitch, it would be a young man dying of the virus, with no underlying health condition. I’m not suggesting things get covered up, but there’s context to everything. I wouldn’t mind betting that as tragic as it’ll be, 99.9% of deaths will be the elderly, infirm, and the seriously ill. Unfortunately too many people want to score political points.

 

The actual stats by age and co-morbidity are here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

If you have no underlying conditions the average death rate for all ages is 0.9%. For younger people its much lower

[Lord Duckhunter]

The actual stats by age and co-morbidity are here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

 

If you have no underlying conditions the average death rate for all ages is 0.9%. For younger people its much lower

 

That doesn’t address the fact that if you’re not testing everyone, you can’t establish a true rate. That might be the % of people who test positive & then subsequently die, but how do you count the numbers who recover without reporting it, or even those that have had it without realising?

 

You’re also not addressing the point regarding people with undiagnosed underlying health conditions. When so many people are dying in such a short space of time, I doubt their conducting PM’s to establish whether there were any.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Batman]

Yep you should. Their opinion is in contradiction to NICE guidelines on treatment of COVID-19. If they really worked on an ECMO unit, which of course they don't because you made them up, they should recuse themselves from practice because they don't have the requisite knowledge.

 

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/ng159/resources/covid19-rapid-guideline-critical-care-pdf-66141848681413

 

 

The article you posted highlights guidelines on treating people with COVID 19..I think I made it clear, from what I have been told from someone on the front line, (who I work with), is that it aint working. Unsure your link disproves that.

 

"EK-MO" et al that normally work for severe pneumonia is not working.

 

Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) can serve as life-saving rescue therapy for refractory respiratory failure in the setting of acute respiratory distress syndrome, such as that induced by coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). In the study by Yang and colleagues,1 who compared clinical characteristics and outcomes in patients with severe COVID-19, (83%) of receiving ECMO died. It raises concerns about potential harms of ECMO therapy for COVID-19.

 

Available evidence from similar patient populations suggests that carefully selected patients with severe ARDS who do not benefit from conventional treatment might be successfully supported with venovenous ECMO. The need for ECMO is relatively low

 

WHO interim guidelines recommend offering extracorporeal membrane oxygenation (ECMO) to eligible patients with acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) related to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). The number of patients with COVID-19 infection who might develop severe ARDS that is refractory to maximal medical management and require this level of support is low.

 

I say again, I was told by someone on the front line that despite the guidelines offered of treating this in conventional ways, that it generally ain't working and suggesting (that you did) that having more of a particular machine/unit/course of treatment is the reason we have more deaths that Germany etc is wrong.

 

I admire you, no matter what the topic of the day, (climate change, terrorism, Brexit, national politics), you are some sort of expert...!! Amazing.

Edited 29 March, 2020 by Batman

[Turkish]

We did Owton’s last week, meat is fantastic, we will not be going back to supermarket meat that’s for sure. Sirloin steak goes highly recommended

 

When we lived in Southampton used to go there a lot. Live in Yorkshire now and are very fortunate to have a top notch independent butcher, green grocer and fishmonger within 5 minutes of us. All the meat and and veg are from within 10 miles of where we live. The fishmonger is great, a few months back he showed me the difference between a farmer fish and a naturally caught one, difference in the size and brightness of the skin is incredible. I never go to supermarkets now for any of that stuff. Pay a bit more but the quality is a different level.

[Weston Super Saint]

Jeez, not very inspiring. I wandered why Germany had a much lower death rate than us.

 

Didn't Germany state that if someone dies with underlying conditions even if they test positive for Covid, then they would record the death as being caused by the underlying conditions?

[Lighthouse]

I could tolerate the panic buying if only the people doing it actually started using the stuff they've f**king bought. It should have leveled out by now, those people shouldn't have to shop for a month with their freezers full of meat but apparently that's not the case. I can only presume those of you with enough toilet roll to last until Christmas are still going out and buying another 3 dozen because... reasons.

[Doctoroncall]

Jeez, not very inspiring. I wandered why Germany had a much lower death rate than us.

 

It will probably even out by the end of the pandemic. Unless Germans are good at following orders!

 

But it’s not a simple explanation but a list of factors. Germany has done four times the testing we have in the UK. Have been able to clear the hospitals in preparation. Had a younger demographic that caught the virus first. Unlike in Italy, there is currently no widespread postmortem testing for the novel coronavirus in Germany. The RKI (German HA) says those who were not tested for Covid-19 in their lifetime but are suspected to have been infected with the virus “can” be tested after death, but in Germany’s decentralised health system this is not yet a routine practice. This will not amount to that many as the testing and hospitalisation is in place.

 

The RKI’s official mortality figures include both people who have died of the virus as well as those infected and with underlying health problems, where the precise cause of death could not be determined.

[Plastic]

I could tolerate the panic buying if only the people doing it actually started using the stuff they've f**king bought. It should have leveled out by now, those people shouldn't have to shop for a month with their freezers full of meat but apparently that's not the case. I can only presume those of you with enough toilet roll to last until Christmas are still going out and buying another 3 dozen because... reasons.

 

I thought the shops were starting to recover?

Not been out for a week and will need to do a supply run soon. Luckily we have butcher / baker close, but I’m going to need toilet rolls at some point soon :/

[SO16_Saint01]

Thank you to you both. I will pass that on.

 

Some very worried people will thank you!

 

Is £45 good for that amount of meat (looking at That muscle food place)?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Didn't Germany state that if someone dies with underlying conditions even if they test positive for Covid, then they would record the death as being caused by the underlying conditions?

 

 

That’s the way we record flu deaths. If someone dies of cancer, or another serious disease, this is recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was flu. Because Covid is a notifiable disease that’s what goes down as the cause if they’ve tested positive. The effect is the UK historically underreport flu deaths and could now be over reporting Covid deaths. The real impact can be seen when total deaths for the year is looked at, a big spike in that will indicate people dying of Covid, that wouldn’t have died of seasonal illness, old age, or their existing health condition.

[SO16_Saint01]

My god. Even in a pandemic situation where literally thousands of people are losing their lives each day the same old suspects on here are having a ****ing contest

 

Give it a f*cking rest

[buctootim]

The article you posted highlights guidelines on treating people with COVID 19..I think I made it clear, from what I have been told from someone on the front line, (who I work with), is that it aint working. Unsure your link disproves that.

 

 

Its not an article. Its statutory guidance from the UK's National Institute for Clinical Excellence.

 

 

I say again, I was told by someone on the front line that despite the guidelines offered of treating this in conventional ways, that it generally ain't working and suggesting (that you did) that having more of a particular machine/unit/course of treatment is the reason we have more deaths that Germany etc is wrong.

 

Expand. ECMO is a life support system that takes over function of the heart and or lungs. It is used worldwide for patients temporarily unable to breathe for themselves or pump their own blood. How is it "not working" Jamie? .

 

I admire you, no matter what the topic of the day, (climate change, terrorism, Brexit, national politics), you are some sort of expert...!! Amazing.

 

I used to be responsible for commissioning health services for HIV patients in London. One of the diseases that used to kill patients prematurely was a form of pneumonia called PCP. I was responsible for negotiating a contract with the Royal Brompton to provide tertiary ECMO care to HIV patients. Thats why I know about ECMO.

 

The number of ECMO units is pretty much the same as it was in the 1990s when it was introduced as a trial. Maximum surge capacity is 28 patients nationally. Given each patient normally only requires ECMO for 24-72 hours one additional bed could theoretically save up to 45 lives during a three month pandemic. Having 28 beds when middle income countries like Russia and China have hundreds is a disgrace.

 

https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Management-of-surge-and-escalation-for-adult-respiratory-extra-corporeal-membrane-oxygenation.pdf

Edited 29 March, 2020 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

My god. Even in a pandemic situation where literally thousands of people are losing their lives each day the same old suspects on here are having a ****ing contest

 

Give it a f*cking rest

 

Nobody is have a ****ing contest. People are discussing various aspects of the situation & the Government’s response to it. Get off your high horse, thousands upon thousands of people die each winter, that shouldn’t stop legitimate debate.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[buctootim]

That’s the way we record flu deaths. If someone dies of cancer, or another serious disease, this is recorded as the cause of death, even if the final illness was flu. Because Covid is a notifiable disease that’s what goes down as the cause if they’ve tested positive. The effect is the UK historically underreport flu deaths and could now be over reporting Covid deaths. The real impact can be seen when total deaths for the year is looked at, a big spike in that will indicate people dying of Covid, that wouldn’t have died of seasonal illness, old age, or their existing health condition.

 

There is a sophisticated statistical model to calculate 'excess' winter flu deaths so that it can be determined, as you said for COVID-19, who died from the disease and who simply died with it. If that model was used for COVID-19 I'm sure the numbers would lower.

 

Also agree about death rates being highly influenced by how many tests you carry out.

[Lighthouse]

I thought the shops were starting to recover?

Not been out for a week and will need to do a supply run soon. Luckily we have butcher / baker close, but I’m going to need toilet rolls at some point soon :/

 

Just been to Tesco since posting that and I was actually pleasantly surprised this time. There was bog roll (not that I need any) and a reasonable amount of meat available. When I went two days ago it was basically a choice between beef and pizza.

[Plastic]

Just been to Tesco since posting that and I was actually pleasantly surprised this time. There was bog roll (not that I need any) and a reasonable amount of meat available. When I went two days ago it was basically a choice between beef and pizza.

 

Good news, thanks.

[buctootim]

Just been to Tesco since posting that and I was actually pleasantly surprised this time. There was bog roll (not that I need any) and a reasonable amount of meat available. When I went two days ago it was basically a choice between beef and pizza.

 

Tesco's meat, especially the beef, is uniquely bad imo.

[whelk]

Just been to Tesco since posting that and I was actually pleasantly surprised this time. There was bog roll (not that I need any) and a reasonable amount of meat available. When I went two days ago it was basically a choice between beef and pizza.

 

Costco fully stocked and seemed to be discounting all meats.

[Weston Super Saint]

Just been to Tesco since posting that and I was actually pleasantly surprised this time. There was bog roll (not that I need any) and a reasonable amount of meat available. When I went two days ago it was basically a choice between beef and pizza.

 

Doesn't seem that bad

[Lighthouse]

Doesn't seem that bad

 

It's been two meals a day for a week or more now. I'd rather get Covid-19 than bowel cancer if I'm honest.

[hypochondriac]

Good to see the police have their priorities in order:

 

[Jonnyboy]

Good to see the police have their priorities in order:

 

 

Yes because one tweet means that's all they are focusing on

[The Cat]

Good to see the police have their priorities in order:

 

If people are going around racially abusing Chinese students in Southampton because they think it's their fault people in the UK are catching the virus then they quite rightly should be dealt with.

 

Luckily in this area that seems to have been an isolated incident.

 

General crime is way down at the moment because of the lockdown, although unfortunately domestics are going up dramatically.

[hypochondriac]

Yes because one tweet means that's all they are focusing on

I'd rather the hurty words team diverted all their energy into things that will combat the virus.

[ecuk268]

Costco fully stocked and seemed to be discounting all meats.

 

With all of the restaurants and hotels shutting down there's a surplus of meat and fruit and veg at the wholesalers.

[benjii]

If people are going around racially abusing Chinese students in Southampton because they think it's their fault people in the UK are catching the virus then they quite rightly should be dealt with.

 

Luckily in this area that seems to have been an isolated incident.

 

General crime is way down at the moment because of the lockdown, although unfortunately domestics are going up dramatically.

 

Yeah, I’m more likely than not to get a divorce after this. The snapdragon is doing my nut in.

[Lighthouse]

I'd rather the hurty words team diverted all their energy into things that will combat the virus.

 

Surely this statement makes for some form of deterrent, even if they are doing literally nothing in practicality to stop racial abuse.

 

Having said that, I've no idea how they managed to bring gender identity into this.

[hypochondriac]

Surely this statement makes for some form of deterrent, even if they are doing literally nothing in practicality to stop racial abuse.

 

Having said that, I've no idea how they managed to bring gender identity into this.

Hopefully you're right but they do say in the video that they will investigate every report of hate crime even if you don't believe its a crime. I'd rather they stopped all this nonsense talk and did what they should be doing and I'm sure most police officers are.

[whelk]

If people are going around racially abusing Chinese students in Southampton because they think it's their fault people in the UK are catching the virus then they quite rightly should be dealt with.

 

Luckily in this area that seems to have been an isolated incident.

 

General crime is way down at the moment because of the lockdown, although unfortunately domestics are going up dramatically.

 

I want to know what Sunak is planning to compensate criminals who are also having a tough time. Pretty much impossible to carry out a burglary now