Coronavirus

[buctootim]

1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

It’s only a lab simulation study but it shows importance of PPE as airborne virus loses 90% effectiveness to infect in first five minutes. 
 

also needs to be peer reviewed. 

This is from a DM article, possibly same source. 

 

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Doctoroncall said:

It’s only a lab simulation study but it shows importance of PPE as airborne virus loses 90% effectiveness to infect in first five minutes. 
 

also needs to be peer reviewed. 

Good heavens, we’ll have no such nonsense on the internet. We want screenshots, tweeted by people who claim to be nutritionists and chiropractors.

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Good heavens, we’ll have no such nonsense on the internet. We want screenshots, tweeted by people who claim to be nutritionists and chiropractors.

It is not believable unless Shakin Stevens and Laurence Fox have retweeted it.

[Picard]

13 hours ago, Doctoroncall said:

It’s only a lab simulation study but it shows importance of PPE as airborne virus loses 90% effectiveness to infect in first five minutes. 
 

also needs to be peer reviewed. 

I don't see where you found 90% in 5 mins?

[Doctoroncall]

1 hour ago, Picard said:

I don't see where you found 90% in 5 mins?

My mistake…

from Abstract:

A decrease in infectivity to ~10 % of the starting value was observable for SARS-CoV-2 over 20 minutes, with a large proportion of the loss occurring within the first 5 minutes after aerosolisation. 
 

in low RH (relative humidity) section:

In summary, two efflorescence events resulted in a >90% decrease in percentage infectivity in just 2 minutes, lower than in any measurement in which the RH was maintained at a constant value.

[badgerx16]

The government's use of a "VIP lane" to award contracts for personal protective equipment (PPE) to two companies was unlawful, the High Court has ruled.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59968037

[saint1977]

Horrific decision for the doctors to be in but they made the correct decision https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/13/my-bile-rises-as-im-asked-to-move-my-dying-cancer-patient-out-of-icu-to-make-room-for-an-unvaccinated-man-with-covid

[skintsaint]

On 06/01/2022 at 06:04, badgerx16 said:

Djokovic denied entry to Australia.

and again. Can't see how you can forget a stop over in Serbia while with Covid and blame it on the agent/human error. 

Normally a 3 year ban on a visa too in the future. Will probably appeal again, get delayed a few weeks and then just leave anyway with a few mill in his pocket.

[Plastic]

SalmonSi's day out...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10384239/Alpha-Men-Assemble-Inside-anti-vax-group-members-taught-wage-war-government.html

[Weston Super Saint]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59474808

Quote

Greece is to make Covid vaccinations mandatory for people aged 60 and over.

Fines of €100 (£85) will be imposed at monthly intervals from mid-January on those who refuse, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said.

Seems democratic 

[Lighthouse]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59474808

Seems democratic 

I’m not sure you’ve quite grasped the definition of democracy there, buddy. Have a critical think and try again.

[Weston Super Saint]

14 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I’m not sure you’ve quite grasped the definition of democracy there, buddy. Have a critical think and try again.

Freedom of choice - i.e. whether to have the vaccine or not.  

Not dictated to that you MUST have the vaccine or be fined.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Freedom of choice - i.e. whether to have the vaccine or not.  

Not dictated to that you MUST have the vaccine or be fined.

Democracy is not freedom of choice. I took part in two democratic votes and ended up with Brexit and Boris.

[whelk]

14 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Democracy is not freedom of choice. I took part in two democratic votes and ended up with Brexit and Boris.

Weston can’t believes there are rules that democracies implement. FREEDOM!!

[buctootim]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Democracy is not freedom of choice. I took part in two democratic votes and ended up with Brexit and Boris.

And I had to pay my taxes. In any event there has always been a balance between individual rights and the rights of the general population to be protected from harm by that individual. Whole villages were isolated during the plague whilst ships were not allowed to dock. Babies compulsorily vaccinated for small pox during Victorian era. 
 

Personally I think if vaccinations were going to be mandatory it should have been  a year ago. Omnicron is less of a threat and harder to prevent - but I’m not going to get my knickers twisted or pretend it’s some dystopian plot

o

[buctootim]

10 minutes ago, whelk said:

Weston can’t believes there are rules that democracies implement. FREEDOM!!

Yay!! Ditch Brexit!!

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Freedom of choice - i.e. whether to have the vaccine or not.  

Not dictated to that you MUST have the vaccine or be fined.

If the Australians don't like the Novak ruling then they can register their displeasure at the ballot box at the next election.

That's democracy etc etc.

[Lighthouse]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Freedom of choice - i.e. whether to have the vaccine or not.  

Not dictated to that you MUST have the vaccine or be fined.

I think you’re thinking of libertarianism there. You can democratically elect a libertarian or an authoritarian crackpot, it’s not dependant on the system of governance.

[AlexLaw76]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-did-sage-scenarios-compare-to-reality-an-update

 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

13 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-did-sage-scenarios-compare-to-reality-an-update

 

 

The problem with the Spectator is that they just don't do as they're told and 'trust the experts''.

[buctootim]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The problem with the Spectator is that they just don't do as they're told and 'trust the experts''.

There must be some things you can grasp? Surely? 

As has been discussed here already the point of SAGE is to avoid situations where healthcare services are overwhelmed and we fall into a situation like India where people are left gasping for air and dying in the street. To that end they issue warnings and action plans if there is a realistic possibility of that happening in the UK. That is not the same as predicting it will happen or is most likely to happen. 

They modelled four scenarios in which Omnicron was 10%, 20%, 50% and 100%  as severe as Delta. Under 10% and 20% scenarios the modelling showed the NHS would cope. However there was a realistic possibility that 50% could occur and the NHS would be overwhelmed or have to cancel unacceptable amounts of elective work with concomittent impacts on non covid patients.  That was the reason for advising control measures - its called the Precautionary Principle. It's been discussed here before. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1043176/S1452_9_Note_from_SPI-M-O_Chairs_for_SAGE.pdf

Edited 17 January, 2022 by buctootim

[Lighthouse]

18 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-did-sage-scenarios-compare-to-reality-an-update

I like how you're still trying to prove things the rest of us already knew the day they were said.

[Doctoroncall]

7 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

The problem with the Spectator is that they just don't do as they're told and 'trust the experts''.

It seems to be more of an ignorance issue all round.  

The Spectator is analysing data which answers different questions which were put to SAGE. They do raise a good question of why the government didn’t include likelihood assessment but that would probably be beyond any government minister when it comes to ‘science and data analytics’, hence why the phrase ‘trust the experts’ gets overused. 

[sadoldgit]

I wonder if any of this bunch post here?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/15/concern-for-uk-security-as-anti-vaxxer-groups-evolve-towards-us-style-militias

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I wonder if any of this bunch post here?

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/15/concern-for-uk-security-as-anti-vaxxer-groups-evolve-towards-us-style-militias

I thought you were all for freedom of speech, letting people live as they want to and if there are any protests we should forget the any violence and just back people standing up for what they believe in. At least that's what you preached during the BLM violence.  

 

PS no i'm not an anti-vaxer, i am treble jabbed.

[spyinthesky]

A good friend of mine has a son, nice lad it has to be said but who prefers to get all his news from non mainstream sources.
He is a covid denier and a supporter of Trump!!
He told me that he is not going to get vaccinated due to the information he had from a range of unbiased (!!!!!!) sources.
One of these is/was a GP based in Hampshire by the name of Dr Sam White.
I looked him up.
Fair play to him as he was a Partner in a practice in Hampshire, so he actually has some medical training.
However he seems to have a different way of dealing with patients concentrating on holistic processes and, seemingly, non mainstream medical processes.
As part of this he recommends people taking Hydroxychloroquine (as recommended by a certain Mr D Trump) and Ivermectin which I didnt realise was primarily a horse de-wormer and only recommended for human use in very small doses.
Also it seems that a large percentage of major trials undertaken by reputable studies in respect of Ivermectin have shown serious errors or evidence of fraud.
Interestingly only today news came out that inmates in Arkansas prisons are taking legal action about being given Ivermectin as treatment against Covid. 
Looking at 'Dr Sams' internet feed, he uses the word 'okay' more or less after every sentence which seems a bit strange for a man of learning.
The other noticeable thing that came out of my research on Dr White was the reality that many people who follow his posts have no trust in standard medical treatments and at least one contributor to his feed believes those that those who chose to follow the majority of medical advice on the benefits of vaccination are 'Satanists'
I find this completely at odds with my life as a fully vaccinated individual who has lived a very blameless life apart from my ongoing support of a sinful football club.

 

Edited 19 January, 2022 by spyinthesky

[whelk]

Wonder how many people they would be wheeling out to give their opinions and animated columnists losing their shit if a Labour Govt gave £4.3bn to criminals through Covid fraud and then wrote off trying to recover any of it? 
I mean it’s only £4.3bn and it was “unprecedented times”

[badgerx16]

Another false flag actor ?

 

"A folk singer from the Czech Republic has died after deliberately catching Covid, her son has told the BBC.

Hana Horka, 57, was unvaccinated and had posted on social media that she was recovering after testing positive, but died two days later.

Her son, Jan Rek, said she got infected on purpose when he and his father had the virus, so she could get a recovery pass to access certain venues."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996

[AlexLaw76]

A good thing. Much of the madness is coming to an end.  Masks, certification et al being relegated to 'guidance'

[Lighthouse]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Another false flag actor ?

 

"A folk singer from the Czech Republic has died after deliberately catching Covid, her son has told the BBC.

Hana Horka, 57, was unvaccinated and had posted on social media that she was recovering after testing positive, but died two days later.

Her son, Jan Rek, said she got infected on purpose when he and his father had the virus, so she could get a recovery pass to access certain venues."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60050996

Not a patch on those Indian actors though. The way they laid perfectly still on those funeral pyres, even with all the smoke and flames, is true dedication to our great and noble cause.

[whelk]

8 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Not a patch on those Indian actors though. The way they laid perfectly still on those funeral pyres, even with all the smoke and flames, is true dedication to our great and noble cause.

Ahh the 2006 pyres

[whelk]

One thing with being opposition and making out Boris was being reckless, appeasing backbenchers etc now have to accept the measures were proportionate and we didn’t need to go full on like Wales and Scotland. 

[Klaus Schwab]

This is interesting 

 

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, Klaus Schwab said:

This is interesting 

 

What do you think it adds that we did not already know ?

[Whitey Grandad]

Flippin' 'ell that went on a bit. How to flog something beyond the point when your audience have fallen asleep. He could have made his points in forty seconds.

[badgerx16]

56 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Flippin' 'ell that went on a bit. How to flog something beyond the point when your audience have fallen asleep. He could have made his points in forty seconds.

And the conclusion seemed to be that if you open a window you might hear some birds singing. ( He even seems to admit he isn't sure what point he is trying to make with this "major story" that the media have overlooked ).

[Weston Super Saint]

Looks like this will be the way out for Boris when it comes to 'sacking' all NHS staff at the beginning of April if they haven't been vaccinated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-54239922

Quote

The current self-isolation regulations run out on 24 March.

The prime minister has told MPs he does not expect to renew the rules and said they could end sooner - if Covid data allows.

No isolation means there is no need to insist on vaccinations, which means the NHS staff won't have to be fired after all.

The perfect way to 'back down' on a ridiculous policy without actually 'backing down'.

It's too late for the care sector though, but Boris won't care about that as it is largely run by private companies anyway.

[Turkish]

This forums favourite person with some interesting info 

 

[CB Fry]

30 minutes ago, Turkish said:

This forums favourite person with some interesting info 

 

Pretty twattish thing to say unless he truly thinks that thousands of people who have Asthma or Liver disease were all just about to drop down dead anyway in 2020 or 2021.

Edited 21 January, 2022 by CB Fry

[Jimmy_D]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

This forums favourite person with some interesting info 

 

Guessing that's based on this one, or at least is using the same or very similar data;

Factors associated with deaths due to COVID-19 versus other causes: population-based cohort analysis of UK primary care data and linked national death registrations within the OpenSAFELY platform - The Lancet Regional Health – Europe

It's yet another example of cherry picking data out of context to give a false impression of Covid being less serious. The 17,300 figure competely ignores all the people who wouldn't have died had they not caught Covid.

Stepping back for a second, the fact that there are at least that many people that have died despite otherwise being in perfect health as far as the NHS are concerned, no other factors such as being overweight, age not being a factor, no heart or lung issues... that Covid was enough completely by itself to kill people like that... it only sounds like a small number because the overall massive impact of Covid has desensitised us to a large extent.

[Turkish]

Just now, Jimmy_D said:

Guessing that's based on this one, or at least is using the same or very similar data;

Factors associated with deaths due to COVID-19 versus other causes: population-based cohort analysis of UK primary care data and linked national death registrations within the OpenSAFELY platform - The Lancet Regional Health – Europe

It's yet another example of cherry picking data out of context to give a false impression of Covid being less serious. The 17,300 figure competely ignores all the people who wouldn't have died had they not caught Covid.

Stepping back for a second, the fact that there are at least that many people that have died despite otherwise being in perfect health as far as the NHS are concerned, no other factors such as being overweight, age not being a factor, no heart or lung issues... that Covid was enough completely by itself to kill people like that... it only sounds like a small number because the overall massive impact of Covid has desensitised us to a large extent.

Bit like cherry picking data to make covid look more serious, yes? 
 

#6000deathsaday

[Jimmy_D]

17 hours ago, Turkish said:

Bit like cherry picking data to make covid look more serious, yes? 
 

#6000deathsaday

I'm sure that's happened too to a certain extent too, based on what any particular author is attempting to do, but you need a better example than that.

You're comparing misrepresented data about what's actually occurred with a worst case estimate for a scenario, where the conditions for that scenario never actually occurred.

[Warriorsaint]

On 19/01/2022 at 17:10, AlexLaw76 said:

A good thing. Much of the madness is coming to an end.  Masks, certification et al being relegated to 'guidance'

Wonderful. You don’t have to wear a mask. Woohoo. You’re so oppressed.

[benjii]

On 22/01/2022 at 06:01, Jimmy_D said:

Guessing that's based on this one, or at least is using the same or very similar data;

Factors associated with deaths due to COVID-19 versus other causes: population-based cohort analysis of UK primary care data and linked national death registrations within the OpenSAFELY platform - The Lancet Regional Health – Europe

It's yet another example of cherry picking data out of context to give a false impression of Covid being less serious. The 17,300 figure competely ignores all the people who wouldn't have died had they not caught Covid.

Stepping back for a second, the fact that there are at least that many people that have died despite otherwise being in perfect health as far as the NHS are concerned, no other factors such as being overweight, age not being a factor, no heart or lung issues... that Covid was enough completely by itself to kill people like that... it only sounds like a small number because the overall massive impact of Covid has desensitised us to a large extent.

Indeed.

Edited 23 January, 2022 by benjii

[RedArmy]

On 21/01/2022 at 23:01, Jimmy_D said:

Guessing that's based on this one, or at least is using the same or very similar data;

Factors associated with deaths due to COVID-19 versus other causes: population-based cohort analysis of UK primary care data and linked national death registrations within the OpenSAFELY platform - The Lancet Regional Health – Europe

It's yet another example of cherry picking data out of context to give a false impression of Covid being less serious. The 17,300 figure competely ignores all the people who wouldn't have died had they not caught Covid.

Stepping back for a second, the fact that there are at least that many people that have died despite otherwise being in perfect health as far as the NHS are concerned, no other factors such as being overweight, age not being a factor, no heart or lung issues... that Covid was enough completely by itself to kill people like that... it only sounds like a small number because the overall massive impact of Covid has desensitised us to a large extent.

Let’s be honest here and admit that an unknown percentage of that 17,000 may not have even had covid at all when they died. As long as they tested positive in the previous 28 days they’ll be counted regardless. 

[whelk]

Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud

https://news.sky.com/story/treasury-minister-lord-agnew-resigns-over-governments-lamentable-record-on-tackling-covid-business-loan-fraud-12524460

over 1000 companies given handouts weren’t even trading before Covid. Sunak getting no stick for this but absolutely shocking incompetence that criminals worked it out and simply got away with it and govt not even trying to do anything. Shambolic

Edited 24 January, 2022 by whelk

[spyinthesky]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Conservative minister resigns in anger over Covid fraud

https://news.sky.com/story/treasury-minister-lord-agnew-resigns-over-governments-lamentable-record-on-tackling-covid-business-loan-fraud-12524460

over 1000 companies given handouts weren’t even trading before Covid. Sunak getting no stick for this but absolutely shocking incompetence that criminals worked it out and simply got away with it and govt not even trying to do anything. Shambolic

Totally disgraceful and not particularly good news for our mate Rishi Sunak and his team.

[Jimmy_D]

10 hours ago, RedArmy said:

Let’s be honest here and admit that an unknown percentage of that 17,000 may not have even had covid at all when they died. As long as they tested positive in the previous 28 days they’ll be counted regardless. 

In those numbers, no, those are based on recorded cause of death.

The reason this isn’t done for the daily figures is that an official cause of death takes too long to be useful, by the time the numbers would be up to date, it’d be far too late to base any action on them. Using deaths within 28 days has proved accurate enough to guide decisions on restrictions and other measures within a timeframe that means they can make a bigger difference in saving lives.

[saint1977]

Huge issues looming in America, not sure Biden can do a lot with nearly 40% refusing the vaccine and probably 99% of those not even recognising the election result and swallowing the cult of Trump. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60133618

Omicron is proving as deadly as Delta for the unvaccinated. The higher vaccinated and more educated/professional areas like NYC will have rising cases but milder outcomes as we see largely in the UK. Sad example here but the hospital are taking the right stance, transplants need people to be adopting the right lifestyles and minimising risk to be fair to others on the list https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60132765. Hard to imagine putting online misinformation ahead of seeing your own kids grow up. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, saint1977 said:

Huge issues looming in America, not sure Biden can do a lot with nearly 40% refusing the vaccine and probably 99% of those not even recognising the election result and swallowing the cult of Trump. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60133618

Omicron is proving as deadly as Delta for the unvaccinated. The higher vaccinated and more educated/professional areas like NYC will have rising cases but milder outcomes as we see largely in the UK. Sad example here but the hospital are taking the right stance, transplants need people to be adopting the right lifestyles and minimising risk to be fair to others on the list https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60132765. Hard to imagine putting online misinformation ahead of seeing your own kids grow up. 

Doesnt Trump support the vaccine?