Coronavirus

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, redkeith said:

France has more people vaccinated than the uk now and are doing boosters too. The 9 times  death rate is based on the fact ratio of infections to deaths being similar in developed countries, thus 9 times as may people infected means nine times more people hospitalised in the next 2 weeks and then the same ratio of deaths within the following 2 weeks as a viroligist was discussing on the BBC this morning.  

We've hovered around the 100 - 150 deaths per day mark since July whilst hospitalisations have been around 900 - 1100 per day : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

Infection numbers have differed massively in that time (60k down to 20k and up to 40k per day) : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases - giving a 'death rate' of 1 per 266 cases.

Meanwhile, France is currently averaging around 30 deaths per day - based on average cases of around 5k per day, giving a death rate of 1 per 166 cases (nearly TWICE as bad as the UK).

Either the UK is suddenly going to become incredibly bad at managing hospitalisations or France is going to become incredibly good in order to reach your mythical 9 times as many people infected / hospitalised / dead.

Like I said, nothing about the virus has been linear, so forgive me for not accepting your made up figures, given you've provided zero evidence.....

[Baird of the land]

Amazed Javid can say with a straight face that they have encouraged the wearing of face masks in enclosed spaces. They have been responsible for the wide scale abandonment of face masks.

[revolution saint]

45 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

We've hovered around the 100 - 150 deaths per day mark since July whilst hospitalisations have been around 900 - 1100 per day : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths

Infection numbers have differed massively in that time (60k down to 20k and up to 40k per day) : https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/cases - giving a 'death rate' of 1 per 266 cases.

Meanwhile, France is currently averaging around 30 deaths per day - based on average cases of around 5k per day, giving a death rate of 1 per 166 cases (nearly TWICE as bad as the UK).

Either the UK is suddenly going to become incredibly bad at managing hospitalisations or France is going to become incredibly good in order to reach your mythical 9 times as many people infected / hospitalised / dead.

Like I said, nothing about the virus has been linear, so forgive me for not accepting your made up figures, given you've provided zero evidence.....

It's really difficult to find the data but could it be that France simply isn't testing as many people and we're picking up more mild and asymptomatic cases than France?  I tried looking for hospitalisations data which would probably be a more reliable indicator than cases to see where we compare with France but couldn't find anything.  I'd also like to see our hospitalisations and deaths broken down by age, co-morbidities and vaccination status.

[Weston Super Saint]

39 minutes ago, revolution saint said:

It's really difficult to find the data but could it be that France simply isn't testing as many people and we're picking up more mild and asymptomatic cases than France?  I tried looking for hospitalisations data which would probably be a more reliable indicator than cases to see where we compare with France but couldn't find anything.  I'd also like to see our hospitalisations and deaths broken down by age, co-morbidities and vaccination status.

Absolutely.

As has been said repeatedly since the epidemic started, the only truly reflective figure is all cause mortality compared to previous years.

There is no single, definitive reporting criteria from country to country, so making comparisons is largely irrelevant.

It was mentioned back in the summer that around 90%(?) of all deaths at that time were unvaccinated people. Would be interesting to see if that is still the case as well as hospitalisations...

[whelk]

Those calling for lockdowns can surely  have their own lockdown, although of course dependent on job,  but not difficult for many to not go out to crowded places and online shop where you can.

[Tamesaint]

27 minutes ago, whelk said:

Those calling for lockdowns can surely  have their own lockdown, although of course dependent on job,  but not difficult for many to not go out to crowded places and online shop where you can.

I am not sure that many people are calling for lockdowns. If they are, they are going over the top. 

However the increase in cases is alarming  and deaths are also rising. What exactly is wrong with now implementing masks , passport vaccines and other elements of " Plan B" ? 

There is a trend of us being late in implementing Covid measures. We were too late to lock down in March last year. We were too late in implementing controls last autumn. It looks as if we are going to be too late again. 

[Baird of the land]

6 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

I am not sure that many people are calling for lockdowns. If they are, they are going over the top. 

However the increase in cases is alarming  and deaths are also rising. What exactly is wrong with now implementing masks , passport vaccines and other elements of " Plan B" ? 

There is a trend of us being late in implementing Covid measures. We were too late to lock down in March last year. We were too late in implementing controls last autumn. It looks as if we are going to be too late again. 

Yeah can’t think anyone wants another lockdown. Plan B isn’t a lockdown, it’s just the sort of measures that appear to be keeping cases much lower elsewhere. Some of it like masks is actually part of the current recommended guidance but is being blatantly ignored in practice.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

Yeah can’t think anyone wants another lockdown. Plan B isn’t a lockdown, it’s just the sort of measures that appear to be keeping cases much lower elsewhere. Some of it like masks is actually part of the current recommended guidance but is being blatantly ignored in practice.

Yep, I haven't heard any calls for lockdown, and that's not something anyone wants to see. Mask wearing seemed to help calm numbers. 

[RedArmy]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yep, I haven't heard any calls for lockdown, and that's not something anyone wants to see. Mask wearing seemed to help calm numbers. 

In what way did masks “calm” numbers? 

[egg]

1 minute ago, RedArmy said:

In what way did masks “calm” numbers? 

Are  you really saying that masks made/make no positive difference? 

[RedArmy]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Are  you really saying that masks made/make no positive difference? 

I’m saying they don’t make a significant enough difference, yes. 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

I’m saying they don’t make a significant enough difference, yes. 

Each to their own mate. We're seeing much lower number of cases in France and Portugal where mask wearing is much higher. 

[aintforever]

28 minutes ago, RedArmy said:

I’m saying they don’t make a significant enough difference, yes. 

How can you tell?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

I’m saying they don’t make a significant enough difference, yes. 

They do if those with infections wear them. Their main function is to protect others, but they do offer some protection to the uninfected. It’s a numbers game.

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I’m saying they don’t make a significant enough difference, yes. 

Plenty of highly respected medical organisations recommend mask wearing. 

[Weston Super Saint]

 

11 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Yeah can’t think anyone wants another lockdown. Plan B isn’t a lockdown, it’s just the sort of measures that appear to be keeping cases much lower elsewhere. Some of it like masks is actually part of the current recommended guidance but is being blatantly ignored in practice.

I imagine the 'talk of lockdowns' stems from my post from Tuesday, where what I actually said was :

On 19/10/2021 at 15:47, Weston Super Saint said:

Finally!  Must be time to start talking about winter lockdowns, hospitals can't cope, flu etc etc...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58965650

 

Eseentially highlighting the pattern that these campaigns have been taking over the past 18 months - new variant, more cases, NHS under pressure > lockdowns.

I see today's news is now mentioning 100k cases per day and that we should brace ourselves : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58990658

Quote

The health secretary has warned daily cases could soon rise to 100,000 but is rejecting fresh restrictions right now.

Weren't we meant to hit that magical figure in August but failed miserably?

Despite the rhetoric of rising cases etc etc, there still seems to be a reluctance to publish the data regarding deaths versus vaccination status.  The most 'up to date' figures go up to July 2021 and can be found here the first 'main point' of the article states :

Quote

• In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

 

[egg]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Plenty of highly respected medical organisations recommend mask wearing. 

You'd have to be highly principled to have an issue with us slapping a mask on again in shops, buses, etc. It's no hardship, and may help reverse the trend. 

[The Kraken]

2 hours ago, egg said:

You'd have to be highly principled to have an issue with us slapping a mask on again in shops, buses, etc. It's no hardship, and may help reverse the trend. 

I never really stopped. It’s really no skin off my nose at all to put a mask on for a few minutes while walking round a shop. I’ve been to Portugal and Spain recently and it’s just a given that you wear your mask when going inside a shop, everyone does it. Like you say it is simply not a hardship, I don’t really understand why there is so much opposition and pseudo-science to it.

Edited 21 October, 2021 by The Kraken

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I never really stopped. It’s really no skin off my nose at all to put a mask on for a few minutes while walking round a shop. I’ve been to Portugal and Spain recently and it’s just a given that you wear your mask when going inside a shop, everyone does it. Like you say it is simply not a hardship, I don’t really understand why there is so much opposition and pseudo-science to it.

I’m in Cyprus at the moment. during the day you wear a mask in doors and at all restaurants and bars when walking to seats, toilets etc, plus need to show covid pass everywhere you go. It’s not really a hassle although some people are moaning about it. Evenings are a bit of free for all though with about 30% of people wearing masks everyone doing what they want. No where really enforcing mask wearing in the evening, I guess it’s a lot busier of an evening but even so people know the rules but not sticking to them.

[RedArmy]

I’m sure one of you can explain the benefits of wearing a mask to pop into a shop for 2 minutes when there’s 2,000 maskless people packed into the guildhall for hours on 5 nights out of the next 10. 
 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

I’m sure one of you can explain the benefits of wearing a mask to pop into a shop for 2 minutes when there’s 2,000 maskless people packed into the guildhall for hours on 5 nights out of the next 10. 
 

The people in the shops won't spread the disease as much?

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, RedArmy said:

I’m sure one of you can explain the benefits of wearing a mask to pop into a shop for 2 minutes when there’s 2,000 maskless people packed into the guildhall for hours on 5 nights out of the next 10. 
 

Because the vast majority of people use shops whereas only 2,000 are packed into the Guildhall.

[Warriorsaint]

2 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I’m sure one of you can explain the benefits of wearing a mask to pop into a shop for 2 minutes when there’s 2,000 maskless people packed into the guildhall for hours on 5 nights out of the next 10. 
 

There just selfish cunts

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I’m sure one of you can explain the benefits of wearing a mask to pop into a shop for 2 minutes when there’s 2,000 maskless people packed into the guildhall for hours on 5 nights out of the next 10. 

When the government choses to do it for one thing and not another, its about limiting contact/exposure not prohibiting it completely. This tries to strike a balance between protection and the economy. Perfectly sensible.

The argument that 'they've allowed this so they should allowed that', is a bogus argument.

[egg]

5 hours ago, RedArmy said:

I’m sure one of you can explain the benefits of wearing a mask to pop into a shop for 2 minutes when there’s 2,000 maskless people packed into the guildhall for hours on 5 nights out of the next 10. 
 

 

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

The people in the shops won't spread the disease as much?

Yep

3 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Because the vast majority of people use shops whereas only 2,000 are packed into the Guildhall.

Yep

2 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

There just selfish cunts

Double yep

27 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

When the government choses to do it for one thing and not another, its about limiting contact/exposure not prohibiting it completely. This tries to strike a balance between protection and the economy. Perfectly sensible.

The argument that 'they've allowed this so they should allowed that', is a bogus argument.

Yep

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, egg said:

You'd have to be highly principled to have an issue with us slapping a mask on again in shops, buses, etc. It's no hardship, and may help reverse the trend. 

Like these guys?

[Fan The Flames]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Like these guys?

Tory Scum

[ecuk268]

15 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Like these guys?

Javid was put on the spot by a journalist who asked, in light of Javid's asking people to wear masks in crowded places, why weren't Tory MPs wearing them. He conceded that it was a good question. 

Apparently, today the majority were masked. Obviously orders from above.

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Like these guys?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58993387

 

"Conservative MPs don't need to wear masks during debates because they know each other, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said."

[whelk]

8 hours ago, Turkish said:

I’m in Cyprus at the moment. during the day you wear a mask in doors and at all restaurants and bars when walking to seats, toilets etc, plus need to show covid pass everywhere you go. It’s not really a hassle although some people are moaning about it. Evenings are a bit of free for all though with about 30% of people wearing masks everyone doing what they want. No where really enforcing mask wearing in the evening, I guess it’s a lot busier of an evening but even so people know the rules but not sticking to them.

Glad you finally got your holiday

[whelk]

Still frustrating they don’t put any stats against all the people dying and hospitalised by vaccination status. Key when everyone getting excitable about masks again.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58993387

 

"Conservative MPs don't need to wear masks during debates because they know each other, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said."

I wonder how many people have died through contracting Covid from people they know? 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58993387

 

"Conservative MPs don't need to wear masks during debates because they know each other, Jacob Rees-Mogg has said."

 

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I wonder how many people have died through contracting Covid from people they know? 

My wife wondered if they 'know' each other in the Biblical sense.

[Weston Super Saint]

17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

My wife wondered if they 'know' each other in the Biblical sense.

Pretty sure one of them got sacked for that...

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Glad you finally got your holiday

Thanks pal, 4th time is was moved but got away eventually 👍

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, ecuk268 said:

 

Apparently, today the majority were masked. Obviously orders from above.

Fucking joke, just wearing them to virtue signal. Just as bad as Labour MP’s who wear them in the commons but didn’t bother in the the bars at  conference. You either believe in wearing them, or you don’t. 

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Fucking joke, just wearing them to virtue signal. Just as bad as Labour MP’s who wear them in the commons but didn’t bother in the the bars at  conference. You either believe in wearing them, or you don’t. 

The labour leader doesn’t believe just women have a cervix so it’s no wonder they can’t decide to wear masks or not

[Whitey Grandad]

18 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The labour leader doesn’t believe just women have a cervix so it’s no wonder they can’t decide to wear masks or not

Maybe those people with a cervix are wearing them in a place where you can’t see them. Just a thought.

[whelk]

Just caught news but wasn’t paying full attention but thought they said two thirds of patients are over 80 and large majority of them are not fully vaccinated. But masks masks masks

[whelk]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Thanks pal, 4th time is was moved but got away eventually 👍

Any good? We had trip there booked but Covid came along

[Patrick Bateman]

13 hours ago, Turkish said:

I’m in Cyprus at the moment. during the day you wear a mask in doors and at all restaurants and bars when walking to seats, toilets etc, plus need to show covid pass everywhere you go. It’s not really a hassle although some people are moaning about it. Evenings are a bit of free for all though with about 30% of people wearing masks everyone doing what they want. No where really enforcing mask wearing in the evening, I guess it’s a lot busier of an evening but even so people know the rules but not sticking to them.

Because people are ignorant pricks. It's not hard, stick a f**king mask on. 

[Turkish]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

Any good? We had trip there booked but Covid came along

Yes all fine. Wasn’t really sure what to expect but aside from masks and having to show vaccination document at airport and in restaurants (which takes about 5 seconds on your phone) it’s just like normal. Certainly wouldn’t hold back from booking another one.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

Just caught news but wasn’t paying full attention but thought they said two thirds of patients are over 80 and large majority of them are not fully vaccinated. But masks masks masks

Today's article here , lacking in detail but it does have this quote :

Quote

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer said ministers were letting the "security wall against the virus... crumble" and the booster programme was "stalling".

But Prof Jeremy Brown, an adviser to the government on vaccines, said Sir Keir's criticism was "not an accurate description of what's going on".

"The problem at the moment [is] the people coming to hospital with severe Covid and ending up in intensive care and dying are those who've not had any vaccines," he told BBC Radio 4's PM programme.

But yeah, I'm all for more restrictions to protect the selfish cunts that refused to have a vaccine....

[aintforever]

I’m just trying to work out how shit my holiday would have to be before I felt the need to log onto a football forum and post about Kier Starmer’s opinion on cervixes.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I’m just trying to work out how shit my holiday would have to be before I felt the need to log onto a football forum and post about Kier Starmer’s opinion on cervixes.

I’m trying to work out now shit my life would be if At 8am I was thinking about people I’ve never met before and if I were to meet them would think I was an absolutely helmet are doing whilst on holiday 

I’m having a great time chap. Plenty of time on your hands whilst on holiday to totally relax. Glad to hear your thinking about me as always though. The obsession continues. 

Edited 22 October, 2021 by Turkish

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Today's article here , lacking in detail but it does have this quote :

But yeah, I'm all for more restrictions to protect the selfish cunts that refused to have a vaccine....

I agree, a mask mandate, forces those selfish cunts do their bit. It also helps stops those selfish cunts being double selfish cunts by taking up a hospital bed that could be better used by someone else.

Asking people to pop on a mask in the supermarket, train etc isn't a big ask.

[whelk]

20 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I agree, a mask mandate, forces those selfish cunts do their bit. It also helps stops those selfish cunts being double selfish cunts by taking up a hospital bed that could be better used by someone else.

Asking people to pop on a mask in the supermarket, train etc isn't a big ask.

But that doesn’t appear the issue. Do you think the unvaccinated will avoid COVID as long as when they shop their fellow shoppers have masks?

Edited 22 October, 2021 by whelk

[Fan The Flames]

5 minutes ago, whelk said:

But that doesn’t appear the issue. Do you think the unvaccinated will avoid COVID as long as when they shop their fellow shoppers have masks?

It about limiting contact with aerosols, not stopping contact completely. It can only help quell the numbers, people are catching it somewhere.

[whelk]

21 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

It about limiting contact with aerosols, not stopping contact completely. It can only help quell the numbers, people are catching it somewhere.

Of course there is the ‘it can only help’ ,’how much effort is it? lines which are hard to disagree with, however at what point will it stop? No one wants to get a cold so let’s wear masks everywhere permanently.  
I keep banging on but why are they not making it so clear that unvaccinated are vast majority dying and taking up the beds. Some of these thick antivax twats are just hearing ‘well you still get it if vaccinated’ angle from media which not exactly encouraging take up.

[Weston Super Saint]

22 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

It about limiting contact with aerosols, not stopping contact completely. It can only help quell the numbers, people are catching it somewhere.

People are always going to catch it!

People are far more likely to end up in hospital / in intensive care if they have refused a vaccination.  Whilst wearing a mask 'may' reduce some of those infections (although those that have refused the vaccine probably won't take any other steps to help stop themselves catching the virus), maybe the question should be 'do we want to protect those selfish cunts'?