Coronavirus

[Saints foreva]

11 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There were 801 patient in hospital in England  yesterday. Out of a population of 55,000,000.

The vulnerable have mostly been vaccinated and the unvaccinated are much less vulnerable.  We have reached the point where the lockdown is doing more damage than the virus. 

Decided to have a Google after seeing those numbers and saw that there are roughly 1,200 NHS hospitals in the UK. 

Government definitely can't say postponement of June 21st is to protect the NHS with that kind of ratio. 

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, egg said:

I fully appreciate where this still impacts. My initial post today was in response to yet another whinge from you. If your life was severely impacted I'd get why you constantly bang the same drum, but from your various posts, it seems that you just can't accept that you're a wee big impacted and just get on with it. 

Where have I ever said or complained that it was about me? Unlike you, I have empathy for others and their problems. Can you not for once try and see things from the perspective of others? 
 

But no. You’re all right Jack so anybody who isn’t is just ‘whingeing’. What a nasty, selfish person you must be.

[Whitey Grandad]

5 hours ago, egg said:

Don't conflate the impact on business owners and some staff with the lives of the masses. I can criticise Whitey for whingeing whilst having sympathy for the owners of music venues. 

You haven’t asked how my business has been affected. And I am by no means the only one around here.

[egg]

32 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Where have I ever said or complained that it was about me? Unlike you, I have empathy for others and their problems. Can you not for once try and see things from the perspective of others? 
 

But no. You’re all right Jack so anybody who isn’t is just ‘whingeing’. What a nasty, selfish person you must be.

Whitey, your posts are littered with moans and complaints. If it's not covid and not being able to go here or there, it's your seat at the stadium. You're entitled to an opinion, but I don't sense any gratitude for what you can do, just the focus on what you can't. 

In saying that I'm getting on with my life it's not "I'm all right Jack", but more of a "we're (most of us) all right Jack". The reality is that most people are getting on with normal lives, and I make no apology for being one of them. If you are offended by a positive outlook in a difficult world, I can't help you with that. 

I'm quite content that I'll continue to enjoy what I can, even if it's not what I would have done in normal times. There's nothing "nasty" or "selfish" about that.

Sure, many people aren't all right, I get that and live in the real world, but that shouldn't stop the vast majority for whom things are OK getting the most out of life and not focusing on the bits that are currently missing. 

 

[Fan The Flames]

6 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

So you think that means that nobody is out of work as a result of it?

What makes you think that?

The government should just pay their wages. This is a once in a hundred year event, the government should have the courage to do what is required.

[whelk]

We went for a walk in the forest and then thought we’d have go for a drink. Got turned away as not booked. Fucking bastards.

I personally not been hit hard but it is the manipulation and lack of trust they give us with the data. ‘The impact isn’t yet known’ when they clearly know exactly who is in hospital and their exact vaccination status. They just don’t want to publish it. 
In a few days time it will be not enough is known about the highly transmissible epsilon variant. Rarely do I agree with that Ryanair cunt O’Leary but cannot believe how many swallow the nonsense and abandon their intelligence to put their faith in powers that be. Put out the message the vaccines don’t work then? Yeah thought not.

 

[Fan The Flames]

7 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If this lockdown  is so minimal then what’s the problem with getting rid of it altogether?

Isn't that what we are moving towards, no restrictions from the 21st June. Unless the D variant kicks in. You are moaning that nothing is changing, whilst things are changing.

[egg]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

We went for a walk in the forest and then thought we’d have go for a drink. Got turned away as not booked. Fucking bastards.

I personally not been hit hard but it is the manipulation and lack of trust they give us with the data. ‘The impact isn’t yet known’ when they clearly know exactly who is in hospital and their exact vaccination status. They just don’t want to publish it. 
In a few days time it will be not enough is known about the highly transmissible epsilon variant. Rarely do I agree with that Ryanair cunt O’Leary but cannot believe how many swallow the nonsense and abandon their intelligence to put their faith in powers that be. Put out the message the vaccines don’t work then? Yeah thought not.

 

O'leary is right on this. What's the point of a vaccine if we can't get on with life. Either it works or it doesn't. 

[AlexLaw76]

6 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Isn't that what we are moving towards, no restrictions from the 21st June. Unless the D variant kicks in. You are moaning that nothing is changing, whilst things are changing.

What happens when the E or F, or J, or W variant kicks in?

Vaccines work, or they don't.  If they don't and lockdowns/restrictions are here to stay, no real point in getting jabbed is there?

 

Edited 6 June, 2021 by AlexLaw76

[Fan The Flames]

You still need a critical mass to be vaccinated. You can't open up until you are at that point.

It depends what the future strains are like, if they are not affected by the vaccine then it's back to square one. If they have mild affects, then we will be ok to stand at the bar.

[Weston Super Saint]

42 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You still need a critical mass to be vaccinated. You can't open up until you are at that point.

It depends what the future strains are like, if they are not affected by the vaccine then it's back to square one. If they have mild affects, then we will be ok to stand at the bar.

We reached 'critical mass' (herd immunity) about a month ago.

76.2% of the adult population have had one vaccination and 51.6% have had two.

[egg]

21 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

We reached 'critical mass' (herd immunity) about a month ago.

76.2% of the adult population have had one vaccination and 51.6% have had two.

What are are we to take from that? The variant is getting past the vaccine? Genuine question as I don't know. 

[Weston Super Saint]

29 minutes ago, egg said:

What are are we to take from that? The variant is getting past the vaccine? Genuine question as I don't know. 

If 76.2% (40 million) of adult population has had vaccination, then 23.8% of the adult population (roughly 15 million people) HASN'T had the vaccination.

The variant isn't "getting past" the vaccine and with only 31,395 infections in the last 7 days it is pretty clear that the only people who are being infected are those that haven't yet had the vaccination.  Given that ALL vulnerable people were first in the queue for their jab, those that are currently being infected aren't vulnerable - i.e. they are young, fit and healthy and much less likely to suffer severe symptoms.

This is highlighted in the fact that only 869 people have been hospitalised in the past 7 days and 61 have died.

All figures available here

There is an article that asks the question of whether we will need a third vaccine here which is quite long, however, one quote from Professor Brown that is hidden within it is quite poignant and he's saying what we have guessed at for a while now, but there have oddly been no figures released to confim it (Hancock said something similar a week or two ago) :

Quote

He notes that patients being treated for Covid in hospital now have been offered the vaccine and have chosen not to take it.

 

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

We reached 'critical mass' (herd immunity) about a month ago.

76.2% of the adult population have had one vaccination and 51.6% have had two.

I believe the critical mass is two vaccines at 65-70% level. Hence why we are opening up on the 21 June, so we are on target. Well done the NHS, they will get us out of this.

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

If 76.2% (40 million) of adult population has had vaccination, then 23.8% of the adult population (roughly 15 million people) HASN'T had the vaccination.

The variant isn't "getting past" the vaccine and with only 31,395 infections in the last 7 days it is pretty clear that the only people who are being infected are those that haven't yet had the vaccination.  Given that ALL vulnerable people were first in the queue for their jab, those that are currently being infected aren't vulnerable - i.e. they are young, fit and healthy and much less likely to suffer severe symptoms.

This is highlighted in the fact that only 869 people have been hospitalised in the past 7 days and 61 have died.

All figures available here

There is an article that asks the question of whether we will need a third vaccine here which is quite long, however, one quote from Professor Brown that is hidden within it is quite poignant and he's saying what we have guessed at for a while now, but there have oddly been no figures released to confim it (Hancock said something similar a week or two ago) :

 

Cheers. What we don't know is how many of those tested have been vaccinated - that for me is the acid test. If the positive tests are truly amongst the unvaccinated then that's understandable and an easy problem to solve, although it seems to render the herd immunity argument a weak one. 

[whelk]

Tony Blair continues to be the most sensible of politicians. People can’t see past the Iraq fog but he always speaks sense.

challenging why data on vaccines is not published.

[whelk]

1 hour ago, egg said:

What are are we to take from that? The variant is getting past the vaccine? Genuine question as I don't know. 

No it is not

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

Cheers. What we don't know is how many of those tested have been vaccinated - that for me is the acid test. If the positive tests are truly amongst the unvaccinated then that's understandable and an easy problem to solve, although it seems to render the herd immunity argument a weak one. 

If you have it after being vaccinated chances are asymptomatic or extremely mild. That’s the whole point. Driving insane how simple it/is to give the data on such things.

[egg]

Just now, whelk said:

If you have it after being vaccinated chances are asymptomatic or extremely mild. That’s the whole point. Driving insane how simple it/is to give the data on such things.

We need to see the data, and you have to wander why we're not. I'd imagine it could only give  reassurances about the vaccine, or otherwise. 

[whelk]

Labour continue to be wet and not be able to answer basic questions about vaccine passports and double vaccination rights. Fck me they never wake up to the public annoyance with them for not speaking plainly for fear of offence.

[Fan The Flames]

4 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

I believe the critical mass is two vaccines at 65-70% level. Hence why we are opening up on the 21 June, so we are on target. Well done the NHS, they will get us out of this.

Added to this, restrictions have been lifted in line with the levels of vaccination. I can't really see what the problem here is.

[whelk]

Just now, egg said:

We need to see the data, and you have to wander why we're not. I'd imagine it could only give  reassurances about the vaccine, or otherwise. 

It so they can still juggle the information and paranoid about complacency and consequent behaviour. Treating us as fcking idiots

[rallyboy]

Denying his own data, gurning like a simpleton, making up shit off the cuff, giving contracts to his own family and friends - Matt Hancock isn't just considered by many as an unpleasant liar who reeks of corruption, he's now starting to make Chris Grayling look like a frigging genius.

Somebody, anybody, please step forward and do that fucking job properly.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Cheers. What we don't know is how many of those tested have been vaccinated - that for me is the acid test. If the positive tests are truly amongst the unvaccinated then that's understandable and an easy problem to solve, although it seems to render the herd immunity argument a weak one. 

Herd immunity is not 'all or nothing' it is a gradual process. It can be achieved when more than 50% of a population is immune to a virus (through previous infection or vaccination), however, even with mumps and measles where we have incredibly high vaccination numbers we still see 'outbreaks' from time to time in those that haven't been vaccinated.

It's an American website but the principles are the same : https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

 

Quote

For example, if 80% of a population is immune to a virus, four out of every five people who encounter someone with the disease won’t get sick (and won’t spread the disease any further). In this way, the spread of infectious diseases is kept under control. Depending how contagious an infection is, usually 50% to 90% of a population needs immunity before infection rates start to decline. But this percentage isn’t a “magic threshold” that we need to cross—especially for a novel virus. Both viral evolution and changes in how people interact with each other can bring this number up or down. Below any “herd immunity threshold,” immunity in the population (for example, from vaccination) can still have a positive effect. And above the threshold, infections can still occur.

The higher the level of immunity, the larger the benefit. This is why it is important to get as many people as possible vaccinated.

 

[egg]

5 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Herd immunity is not 'all or nothing' it is a gradual process. It can be achieved when more than 50% of a population is immune to a virus (through previous infection or vaccination), however, even with mumps and measles where we have incredibly high vaccination numbers we still see 'outbreaks' from time to time in those that haven't been vaccinated.

It's an American website but the principles are the same : https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

 

 

Thank you, I'll take a look. 

[Fan The Flames]

10 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Herd immunity is not 'all or nothing' it is a gradual process. It can be achieved when more than 50% of a population is immune to a virus (through previous infection or vaccination), however, even with mumps and measles where we have incredibly high vaccination numbers we still see 'outbreaks' from time to time in those that haven't been vaccinated.

It's an American website but the principles are the same : https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

 

 

The percentage required depends on how contagious the virus is and for covid its believed to be 65-70%. We are not at that figure yet, but galloping towards it.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, whelk said:

Labour continue to be wet and not be able to answer basic questions about vaccine passports and double vaccination rights. Fck me they never wake up to the public annoyance with them for not speaking plainly for fear of offence.

Starmer could be playing an absolute blinder as surely he has access to the information that says how many people in hospital have / haven't been vaccinated.  Pretty simple task to use that info to his advantage, hard to think of a reason why isn't doing so.

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

The percentage required depends on how contagious the virus is and for covid its believed to be 65-70%. We are not at that figure yet, but galloping towards it.

According to Professor Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epedemiology at King's College, we were seeing the effects of herd immunity in April...

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/is-the-uk-close-to-herd-immunity

Quote

With up to 60% of the population vaccinated and around 5-10% with natural immunity due to infection, we’re starting to see herd immunity take effect. This should prevent future large-scale outbreaks. However, we do expect to see  smaller, manageable outbreaks in the coming weeks and months among groups which are yet to be vaccinated.

 

[Fan The Flames]

47 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

According to Professor Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epedemiology at King's College, we were seeing the effects of herd immunity in April...

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/is-the-uk-close-to-herd-immunity

 

We are at 50% for second dose, we'll be there by the 21st.

[The Cat]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Starmer could be playing an absolute blinder as surely he has access to the information that says how many people in hospital have / haven't been vaccinated.  Pretty simple task to use that info to his advantage, hard to think of a reason why isn't doing so.

There has been some data on number of people with vaccines testing positive.

 

 

[The Cat]

It's also important to take into account the full protection doesn't kick in until at least 2 weeks after the second vaccine, and I have read in some cases it's more 3 to 4 weeks.

By 21st June anyone having second vaccine today or before will be around the time of full protection, and that's over 50% of adults.

[The Cat]

Also this thread is worth a read. It's a long one so I picked the tweet relevant to cases and second vaccine.

 

 

 

[badgerx16]

How do people come up with this crap ?

"One tweet claimed that vaccines were a "software platform that can receive uploads"."

"She also compared Dr Anthony Fauci, the top Covid adviser in the US, to Satan ....."

"Most recently, she tweeted that the urine and faeces of people who had received the jab needed to be separated from general sewage supplies while tests were done to measure its impact on non-vaccinated people through drinking water."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57374241

 

I reckon CollinsDic and Scally are both among her followers.

[Whitey Grandad]

On 05/06/2021 at 23:35, Fan The Flames said:

What makes you think that?

The government should just pay their wages. This is a once in a hundred year event, the government should have the courage to do what is required.

Wages are only part of the costs of operating a business. There are a whole host of other overheads. Rent and insurance for a start.

[RedArmy]

 

[Smirking_Saint]

On 05/06/2021 at 16:39, Whitey Grandad said:

If this lockdown  is so minimal then what’s the problem with getting rid of it altogether?

Because if your take on virology is incorrect, and we open up too early... thus creating a situation where the virus again takes hold then the dates of respite for the sectors you have mentioned being impacted will have to be put back

Im not a fan of this situation, I haven't been for the full 18 months, its been awful.... Ive lost people to it, because of it and arguably it took a significant toll on my mental health due to a multitude of other issues (Im fully aware im not alone in that) but we are where we are now and I do think we are better seeing it through

I cannot condone the actions of the government, and cannot help but feel if it wasn't for their negligence on a great many issues then we could have been out of this sooner and with less disruption

June 21st in a realistic target, set with the intention of meeting herd immunity... should we fail after this then I'm not sure what we have left in our armoury.

Let us remember its not just a case of 'opening up and abandon the vulnerable', the speed at which it takes hold poses a viable risk to the NHS, which is a much greater risk to the majority than the virus poses in isolation

[Weston Super Saint]

31 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Let us remember its not just a case of 'opening up and abandon the vulnerable', the speed at which it takes hold poses a viable risk to the NHS, which is a much greater risk to the majority than the virus poses in isolation

Who will the virus 'take hold' of that will mean they end up risking the NHS?

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Smirking_Saint said:

Because if your take on virology is incorrect, and we open up too early... thus creating a situation where the virus again takes hold then the dates of respite for the sectors you have mentioned being impacted will have to be put back

Im not a fan of this situation, I haven't been for the full 18 months, its been awful.... Ive lost people to it, because of it and arguably it took a significant toll on my mental health due to a multitude of other issues (Im fully aware im not alone in that) but we are where we are now and I do think we are better seeing it through

I cannot condone the actions of the government, and cannot help but feel if it wasn't for their negligence on a great many issues then we could have been out of this sooner and with less disruption

June 21st in a realistic target, set with the intention of meeting herd immunity... should we fail after this then I'm not sure what we have left in our armoury.

Let us remember its not just a case of 'opening up and abandon the vulnerable', the speed at which it takes hold poses a viable risk to the NHS, which is a much greater risk to the majority than the virus poses in isolation

I sympathise with your situation. I can see the sense in waiting another couple of weeks, but beyond that and many thinks start to snap.

The vaccination process has been a tremendous achievement and we, as a whole, must have faith in its effectiveness. But where is the threat to the NHS?

[CollinsDic]

On 07/06/2021 at 02:39, badgerx16 said:

How do people come up with this crap ?

"One tweet claimed that vaccines were a "software platform that can receive uploads"."

"She also compared Dr Anthony Fauci, the top Covid adviser in the US, to Satan ....."

"Most recently, she tweeted that the urine and faeces of people who had received the jab needed to be separated from general sewage supplies while tests were done to measure its impact on non-vaccinated people through drinking water."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57374241

 

I reckon CollinsDic and Scally are both among her followers.

Shock horror. MSM denounces anyone with a view opposing the government narrative, and you lap it up like a good little sheep. As you were.

Edited 8 June, 2021 by CollinsDic
misspelling or narrative

[CB Fry]

18 minutes ago, CollinsDic said:

Shock horror. MSM denounces anyone with a view opposing the government narrative, and you lap it up like a good little sheep. As you were.

When are you going to answer my question?

What exactly is "the plan" you talk about, and how long has this been planned for, and did our current Prime Minister know about it during the 2019 election and on January 1st 2020 when he said that year was going to be a great year for the UK?

On 24/05/2021 at 07:07, CB Fry said:

Remind us all exactly what the plan is?

And did Boris Johnson know all about it during the general election campaign of December 2019 or did he only find out about it afterwards?

And why didn't they do the plan in an odd numbered year so it wouldn't impact the Olympics and the Euros?

 

Let's remember any old thick prick can do the "you're all gullible sheep" routine.

It takes someone, like, really clever like you to explain clearly what is really going on in the UK and globally.

So off you go.

 

[egg]

21 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

When are you going to answer my question?

What exactly is "the plan" you talk about, and how long has this been planned for, and did our current Prime Minister know about it during the 2019 election and on January 1st 2020 when he said that year was going to be a great year for the UK?

Let's remember any old thick prick can do the "you're all gullible sheep" routine.

It takes someone, like, really clever like you to explain clearly what is really going on in the UK and globally.

So off you go.

 

He's been trotting this nonsense out for ages mate, but can't say what the plan is, who's behind it, why, and what they hope to achieve. Bless him. 

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, CollinsDic said:

Shock horror. MSM denounces anyone with a view opposing the government narrative, and you lap it up like a good little sheep. As you were.

Do you believe any of the shit she has posted ? ( Assuming it has been screened to protect you from vaccine pollution ).

Edited 8 June, 2021 by badgerx16

[whelk]

Finally Hancock talks about hospitalisation and vaccine numbers

126 admitted to hospital 

Of those 86 unvaccinated, 28 one dose, 3 both doses. Don’t know what happened to status of the other 9.  Seems higher than previous efficacy figures but at least they are telling us.

 

 

 

[CollinsDic]

4 hours ago, CB Fry said:

When are you going to answer my question?

What exactly is "the plan" you talk about, and how long has this been planned for, and did our current Prime Minister know about it during the 2019 election and on January 1st 2020 when he said that year was going to be a great year for the UK?

Let's remember any old thick prick can do the "you're all gullible sheep" routine.

It takes someone, like, really clever like you to explain clearly what is really going on in the UK and globally.

So off you go.

 

Aww diddums. I await admin to tell me off for my comment there, even after being called a prick. LOL.

Edited 8 June, 2021 by CollinsDic

[CollinsDic]

4 hours ago, egg said:

He's been trotting this nonsense out for ages mate, but can't say what the plan is, who's behind it, why, and what they hope to achieve. Bless him. 

Actually, WRONG. I have stated clearly a couple of time that I will not bother wasting my time to explain it to you as you are too far gone. You are all so hooked on the narrative that it will fall on deaf ears. Only when its too late will you say BUGGER, wish we had listened. Ask yourself one simple question; if the human race keeps growing in numbers over the next 100 years, as it has in the last 100 years, will our planet live or die....is it sustainable. If you answer YES, we will be fine as sustainable energy is just around the corner, congrats, you are brainwashed as well as they could have ever hoped for. You are a true believer. Blessings of the state.

[whelk]

This poor chap is not far from seeing ants crawling over his hands. Not appropriate to mock really and needs help.

[Tamesaint]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

This poor chap is not far from seeing ants crawling over his hands. Not appropriate to mock really and needs help.

Lets arrange for him and Guided Missile to meet up. Would be fun to watch. 

[Smirking_Saint]

17 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Who will the virus 'take hold' of that will mean they end up risking the NHS?

There has always been a percentage of 'healthy' individuals that have unfortunately required treatment, as well as those that are unable to receive a vaccine that could come into contact with non symptomatic

15 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I sympathise with your situation. I can see the sense in waiting another couple of weeks, but beyond that and many thinks start to snap.

The vaccination process has been a tremendous achievement and we, as a whole, must have faith in its effectiveness. But where is the threat to the NHS?

I do agree, I have always been one that has 'towed the line' with this situation but I do think, once we are passed the June 21st deadline and the vaccine rollout is at its 'critical mass' then we have effectively done everything that we can do.... passed that timescale it is difficult to justify extending lockdowns. 

- Threat to the NHS answered above

[Smirking_Saint]

7 hours ago, CollinsDic said:

Shock horror. MSM denounces anyone with a view opposing the government narrative, and you lap it up like a good little sheep. As you were.

Ive always found being called a 'sheep' quite confusing

We are all sheep mate, just run around in different herds. My personal shepherds tend to be based in medical science and the anti Vaxx brigade find leadership in  batshit conspiracy theories

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, CollinsDic said:

Aww diddums. I await admin to tell me off for my comment there, even after being called a prick. LOL.

 

6 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Do you believe any of the shit she has posted ? ( Assuming it has been screened to protect you from vaccine pollution ).

Are you able to answer the question ?

If not, let us try a different tack; simple yes or no answers.......

A) Is the vaccine a piece of software that is remotely managed ?

B) Is Dr Fauci analagous to Satan ?

C) Should waste water and sewerage from vaccinated people be separated and screened to protect the un-vaccinated ? ( If so, how on earth can this be done ? )