Coronavirus

[Lighthouse]

29 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Ofc its not a coincidence, it's a deliberate plan of action - or in the UK's case inaction until it was too late.  Britain has the worst infection and death rate of any major country in the world apart from Belgium - and only then because their maverick chief epidemiologist brought in an odd counting system. Its certainly not by chance the UK has a worse record than Trumps US where they dealt with it by mass rallies and bleach.     

That in itself should tell you something. If we have a worse record than a government which spent a year telling their citizens to take dementia meds, inject themselves with Toilet Duck and crack on as normal, then clearly there is a lot more to it than simply who's in charge. The way we record deaths is another factor; if someone accidentally chokes themselves to death having a w*nk, 27 days after a positive COVID test, they end up on the statistics. I'm not sure how other countries record this exactly but we're not doing ourselves any favours there.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

That in itself should tell you something. If we have a worse record than a government which spent a year telling their citizens to take dementia meds, inject themselves with Toilet Duck and crack on as normal, then clearly there is a lot more to it than simply who's in charge. The way we record deaths is another factor; if someone accidentally chokes themselves to death having a w*nk, 27 days after a positive COVID test, they end up on the statistics. I'm not sure how other countries record this exactly but we're not doing ourselves any favours there.

On the flip side of that though, some research was published last week which shows that nearly a third of people who are hospitalised with Covid and then released are re-admitted within 5 months, with over 12 percent of them subsequently dying. These people are not included in the statistics because they did not die within 28 days of a positive test.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[trousers]

14 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

And going on This Morning and saying he wanted to let it spread through the population naturally

https://fullfact.org/health/boris-johnson-coronavirus-this-morning/

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

https://fullfact.org/health/boris-johnson-coronavirus-this-morning/

Taken out of context or not, it was still an outrageously stupid thing for him to be saying on national TV, as the "take it on the chin" option should never have been in the room, let alone on the table.

In the same interview, he described cancelling public events and closing schools as "quite draconian". He was completely wrong about that as well, as they were obviously necessary measures that he didn't even want to consider taking at the time.

[trousers]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Taken out of context or not, it was still an outrageously stupid thing for him to be saying on national TV, as the "take it on the chin" option should never have been in the room, let alone on the table.

It was already "in the room" as an option being spread in the public domain in the lead up to the interview, ergo tackling it face on and saying that he didn't think it was the way to go was a good thing come out with. Just a different opinion of course.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by trousers

[Sheaf Saint]

 

This 'strategy' has turned out to be a monumental failure, given that we have suffered both the worst death rate in the world, and the biggest economic impact in Europe as well.

[Lighthouse]

18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

On the flip side of that though, some research was published last week which shows that nearly a third of people who are hospitalised with Covid and then released are re-admitted within 5 months, with over 12 percent of them subsequently dying. These people are not included in the statistics because they did not die within 28 days of a positive test.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Interesting, I didn't know that.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study

FYI

Edit: I say "published", but it's still actually at peer review stage. Nevertheless, it's very interesting and concerning.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/18/almost-30-of-covid-patients-in-england-re-admitted-to-hospital-after-discharge-study

FYI

Edit: I say "published", but it's still actually at peer review stage. Nevertheless, it's very interesting and concerning.

Just goes to highlight; this isn't a simple binary, live or die scenario. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

Just goes to highlight; this isn't a simple binary, live or die scenario. 

Exactly, and that is why it's so hard to debate with the "sceptics" who are so fixated solely on the death rate and claiming it's no worse than a particularly bad winter flu.

We're still learning about the long term effects, but some of the individual cases I have read about are horrendous. Many people who survive hospitalisation are left with permanent lung damage, chronic fatigue, and all sorts of other conditions which will have a devastating impact on their quality of life.

[Weston Super Saint]

50 minutes ago, trousers said:

It was already "in the room" as an option being spread in the public domain in the lead up to the interview, ergo tackling it face on and saying that he didn't think it was the way to go was a good thing come out with. Just a different opinion of course.

Basically Boris was a trailblazer recommending a course of action that even the WHO wouldn't recommend until two days after him.  

https://www.who.int/news/item/07-03-2020-who-statement-on-cases-of-covid-19-surpassing-100-000

Quote

Allowing uncontrolled spread should not be a choice of any government, as it will harm not only the citizens of that country but affect other countries as well. 

Looks like Boris's 20-20 hindsight was well tuned even back then  

[kwsaint]

The daily death total on TV is actually slightly understating the deaths caused by Covid, not overstating it.  Actuaries are looking at excess deaths.  Their modelling projects how many deaths they expect each month, factoring in things such as winter flu.  Anything above that can be reasonably assumed to be as a result of Covid, either directly or indirectly as a result of people not getting quick enough treatment for cancer etc.  We actually hit the 100,000 figure before Christmas.  I had a chat with a friend in between lockdowns who patiently explained it to me.

But the daily totals on the news are not that far out - maybe 10% low.  My guess is that while we are fairly accurately reporting Covid deaths, many other countries are under recording big time.

The one thing that I have not heard mention is what is being done to reduce the risk of viruses jumping species to humans in future.  While not wishing to join the conspiracy nutters who think the Chinese did this deliberately, it is generally accepted that Covid-19 started in a Wuhan wet market where levels of hygiene are very poor.  It's not the first time that this has happened (SARS, Bird Flu had the same origins), but certainly the worst for a while.  The Chinese government are currently sowing disinformation to say that it didn't start with them.  It would be good for them to face up and clean up their act.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

32 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Exactly, and that is why it's so hard to debate with the "sceptics" who are so fixated solely on the death rate and claiming it's no worse than a particularly bad winter flu.

 

And yet, the statistics show that for the overwhelming majority of the population, that is exactly what it is.

Unless you have some statistical data that suggests otherwise.

(and no, I'm not claiming that the virus is a hoax etc etc and am more than aware that for certain people in certain age groups / demographics catching the virus is devastating, but I am willing to accept that both those standpoints can co-exist).

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet, the statistics show that for the overwhelming majority of the population, that is exactly what it is.

Unless you have some statistical data that suggests otherwise.

(and no, I'm not claiming that the virus is a hoax etc etc and am more than aware that for certain people in certain age groups / demographics catching the virus is devastating, but I am willing to accept that both those standpoints can co-exist).

The statistics also show that nobody ever dies from AIDS. It's quite clearly not just 'a bad flu' even if it does have similar pathology.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

The statistics also show that nobody ever dies from AIDS. It's quite clearly not just 'a bad flu' even if it does have similar pathology.

WTF?

https://www.unaids.org/en/resources/fact-sheet

Quote

• 690 000 [500 000–970 000] people died from AIDS-related illnesses in 2019.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Sheaf Saint said:

On the flip side of that though, some research was published last week which shows that nearly a third of people who are hospitalised with Covid and then released are re-admitted within 5 months, with over 12 percent of them subsequently dying. These people are not included in the statistics because they did not die within 28 days of a positive test.

I think we would need to see the age breakdown of these figures before drawing any conclusions.

[Sheaf Saint]

38 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And yet, the statistics show that for the overwhelming majority of the population, that is exactly what it is.

Unless you have some statistical data that suggests otherwise.

Total number of NHS hospital admissions with flu 2017/18 season: 46,215

Total number of NHS hospital admissions with flu 2018/19 season: 39,670

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7526100/

 

Total number of hospital admissions with Covid (cumulative) as of Monday 25th Jan: 371,089 (gov.uk).

That's almost ten times the amount of hospital admissions since the start of the pandemic (less than a year ago) than in the entire 2018/19 flu season. And that is taking into account all of the lockdown and social distancing restrictions. Imagine how much worse it would be without them.

It isn't, and never was, all about the death rate. It's about the number of hospitalisations and the excessive strain on the NHS. This is why it is completely idiotic to argue that it's no worse than a bad flu season. 

 

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[Sheaf Saint]

 

28 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I think we would need to see the age breakdown of these figures before drawing any conclusions.

Agreed.

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Total number of NHS hospital admissions with flu 2017/18 season: 46,215

Total number of NHS hospital admissions with flu 2018/19 season: 39,670

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7526100/

 

Total number of hospital admissions with Covid (cumulative) as of Monday 25th Jan: 371,089 (gov.uk).

That's almost ten times the amount of hospital admissions since the start of the pandemic (less than a year ago) than in the 2018/19 flu season. And that is taking into account all of the lockdown and social distancing restrictions. Imagine how much worse it would be without them.

 

 

I agree with you 100%.

Doesn't take away from the fact that for the overwhelming majority of the population it is similar to a bad flu!  When it comes to the under 25s you can probably reduce that to the same as a bit of a cold.

As I mentioned, there are certain groups for which the virus is devastating.

Both concepts are able to exist at the same time.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Weston Super Saint

[Sheaf Saint]

13 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I agree with you 100%.

Doesn't take away from the fact that for the overwhelming majority of the population it is similar to a bad flu!  When it comes to the under 25s you can probably reduce that to the same as a bit of a cold.

As I mentioned, there are certain groups for which the virus is devastating.

Both concepts are able to exist at the same time.

I think we've got our wires crossed a bit here.

You're referring to the symptoms of the virus, which can feel like a bad flu to most people that get it. In that sense you are absolutely correct.

The point I was making was about the overall impact of the pandemic. Many people arguing against lockdowns etc. (and I'm using my own brother as a reference point here, who has fallen head first down the hoax/anti-vax/Bill Gates conspiracy theory rabbit hole and cannot be reasoned with) are focussed solely on the death rates, saying it is no worse than a bad flu season and they would prefer to take their chances because they will most likely survive with no long term effects. But this is incredibly selfish thinking, because it ignores the bigger issue which is the ten-fold increase in the number of hospitalisations and the immense strain this is putting on the NHS.

[Lighthouse]

55 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

WTF?

https://www.unaids.org/en/resources/fact-sheet

 

The key word being, ‘related’. Most of them die from pneumonia, bronchitis or various forms of cancer.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

The key word being, ‘related’. Most of them die from pneumonia, bronchitis or various forms of cancer.

In that case, statistically, no-one has died from Covid / coronavirus either, given that what kills them is repiratory, heart or kidney failure (predominantly).  The same way that the aids 'virus' attacks organs in the body.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/covid-related-hospital-deaths-devon-4926980

Quote

Covid-19 related deaths in Devon and Cornwall’s hospital have risen at the fastest rate since the beginning of the pandemic, new NHS England figures reveal.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregisteredbetween9marchand28december2020

Quote

2.Overview of coronavirus-related deaths by occupation

 

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Weston Super Saint

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I think we would need to see the age breakdown of these figures before drawing any conclusions.

Interestingly, the article link below contains the following :

Quote

There were 7,961 deaths involving COVID-19 in the working age population (aged 20 to 64 years) of England and Wales registered between 9 March and 28 December 2020.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregisteredbetween9marchand28december2020

Whilst it doesn't state how many of those had underlying conditions, it does acknowlege that they are included in the number.

Quote

1. Deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) include those with an underlying cause, or any mention, of U07.1 (COVID-19, virus identified) or U07.2 (COVID-19, virus not identified).

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, buctootim said:

Early on Australia made everybody coming into the country isolate under supervision. As a result their lives are near normal.

Pony.
 

My son lives in Sydney and his life is nowhere near back to normal. 

[buctootim]

38 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Pony.
 

My son lives in Sydney and his life is nowhere near back to normal. 

A lot more normal than here 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/25/australia-covid-19-lockdown-rules-coronavirus-restrictions-by-state-nsw-victoria-vic-queensland-qld-western-south-australia-wa-sa-nt-act-travel-border-social-distancing-masks

[Weston Super Saint]

9 minutes ago, buctootim said:

A lot more normal than here 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/25/australia-covid-19-lockdown-rules-coronavirus-restrictions-by-state-nsw-victoria-vic-queensland-qld-western-south-australia-wa-sa-nt-act-travel-border-social-distancing-masks

More normal than "here" during our summer?

[Lighthouse]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

In that case, statistically, no-one has died from Covid / coronavirus either, given that what kills them is repiratory, heart or kidney failure (predominantly).  The same way that the aids 'virus' attacks organs in the body.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/covid-related-hospital-deaths-devon-4926980

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/deathsregisteredbetween9marchand28december2020

 

You're only confirming my point - That no context statistics are inherently flawed.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, buctootim said:

A lot more normal than here 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/25/australia-covid-19-lockdown-rules-coronavirus-restrictions-by-state-nsw-victoria-vic-queensland-qld-western-south-australia-wa-sa-nt-act-travel-border-social-distancing-masks

That wasn’t what you claimed. You said their life’s were “near normal”. They’re not, nowhere near. 

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[benjii]

15 hours ago, kwsaint said:

The daily death total on TV is actually slightly understating the deaths caused by Covid, not overstating it.  Actuaries are looking at excess deaths.  Their modelling projects how many deaths they expect each month, factoring in things such as winter flu.  Anything above that can be reasonably assumed to be as a result of Covid, either directly or indirectly as a result of people not getting quick enough treatment for cancer etc.  We actually hit the 100,000 figure before Christmas.  I had a chat with a friend in between lockdowns who patiently explained it to me.

But the daily totals on the news are not that far out - maybe 10% low.  My guess is that while we are fairly accurately reporting Covid deaths, many other countries are under recording big time.

The one thing that I have not heard mention is what is being done to reduce the risk of viruses jumping species to humans in future.  While not wishing to join the conspiracy nutters who think the Chinese did this deliberately, it is generally accepted that Covid-19 started in a Wuhan wet market where levels of hygiene are very poor.  It's not the first time that this has happened (SARS, Bird Flu had the same origins), but certainly the worst for a while.  The Chinese government are currently sowing disinformation to say that it didn't start with them.  It would be good for them to face up and clean up their act.

 

This should absolutely be a priority, and let's hope this whole situation leads to some proper measures to support localism and sensible stewardship of resources. There are countries who won't want to go down that route (China, for one) and we should be having a sensible and thoughtful national conversation about how we go about decoupling ourselves from those regimes. It is massively in our long-term interests not to be reliant on cheap Asian imports, without even mentioning the global consequences of deforestation, excess carbon etc. that result from unchecked industrial exploitation to feed global supply chains, but it will take a shift in mindset to get there and will need action to support people on lower incomes who don't necessarily have the luxury of choice.

Look at another coronavirus, MERS. A zoonotic disease contracted from camels with a death rate of something like 30%. If something like that starts doing the rounds you're looking at catastrophe on a completely different scale.

I think Covid 19 will be impacting travel and other activity for at least another 24 months - current vaccines do not seem to supress transmission and no one knows how effective they really are yet; with further mutations inevitable there is every reason for cautious countries to continue to restrict movement of people; it will take a long time to vaccinate billions of people in any event - so let's hope this side of the debate can gain some traction.

Countries and economies should be open to foreigners and to other cultures but should not be reliant on them to sustain their economies and lifestyles. When it is a regime as poisonous and destructive as the Chinese regime, even more reason not to be tied-in.

 

[egg]

13 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:Pony.
 

My son lives in Sydney and his life is nowhere near back to normal. 

New South Wales restrictions are hardly onerous. Smaller gatherings, masks, and contact tracing, but places are open and life is going on. Night and day from here.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, egg said:

New South Wales restrictions are hardly onerous. Smaller gatherings, masks, and contact tracing, but places are open and life is going on. Night and day from here.

Sounds familiar, almost identical to the hardly onerous restrictions we had in place during our summer.

[egg]

20 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Sounds familiar, almost identical to the hardly onerous restrictions we had in place during our summer.

The link above explains what can and can't happen in NSW. Weddings with up to 100 people, public gatherings, visiting granny in her rest home, pubs with up to 300 people, barbers etc & entertainment facilities etc all open, gyms open, etc. 

Sure, there are number restrictions, having to wear a mask, contact tracing, but on the hole its pretty normal. I would take that pending proper normal.

[Weston Super Saint]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

The link above explains what can and can't happen in NSW. Weddings with up to 100 people, public gatherings, visiting granny in her rest home, pubs with up to 300 people, barbers etc & entertainment facilities etc all open, gyms open, etc. 

Sure, there are number restrictions, having to wear a mask, contact tracing, but on the hole its pretty normal. I would take that pending proper normal.

That's what we had during our summer - the point is that the virus appears to be less virulent during the summer months.  Presumably because more people spend more time outside during the summer?

Couple that with Australia's entry rules to the country - apparently they still have around 40,000 of their own citizens waiting to return home but no available space in their quarantine system for them! - which costs up to £2000 per person.

If we had the same rules for all arrivals since lockdown 1 ended, we would probably have the same 'freedoms' over the winter as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55813987

[egg]

2 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

That's what we had during our summer - the point is that the virus appears to be less virulent during the summer months.  Presumably because more people spend more time outside during the summer?

Couple that with Australia's entry rules to the country - apparently they still have around 40,000 of their own citizens waiting to return home but no available space in their quarantine system for them! - which costs up to £2000 per person.

If we had the same rules for all arrivals since lockdown 1 ended, we would probably have the same 'freedoms' over the winter as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55813987

Apologies, I misunderstood your point. Yep, we had something similar ish but this summer will be more restrictive I'd imagine. The way they've handled entry has been impressive, and other countries have done well too. I know someone who's had to go to Bangladesh and needed a negative test before departure, then had to quarantine whilst passport was held. It's a simple thing to do, but the way we've dealt with entry, and still are, is mind boggling. 

[Tamesaint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Apologies, I misunderstood your point. Yep, we had something similar ish but this summer will be more restrictive I'd imagine. The way they've handled entry has been impressive, and other countries have done well too. I know someone who's had to go to Bangladesh and needed a negative test before departure, then had to quarantine whilst passport was held. It's a simple thing to do, but the way we've dealt with entry, and still are, is mind boggling. 

Exactly.  In Barbados you now have to stay in quarantine for 5 days after entry in addition to having a negative test both before and after arrival.

In the UK you have always been able to walk in from overseas. Although you were meant to isolate after arrival, our "world class" tracking system didnt bother to check for people that I know.

[whelk]

Boris Johnson being his usual embarrassment at PMQs. How does anyone follow and have confidence in this fucker?

[Dr. Kucho]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

Boris Johnson being his usual embarrassment at PMQs. How does anyone follow and have confidence in this fucker?

Johnson and his government have made a mess of the way we try to tackle the Covid-19 pandemic. But then, imagine if Labour won the elections and we had Corbyn, Abbott and Thornbury leading us in these times. 
May might have done a better job, Cameron too as he is a good ‘talker’ and could be more clear. 
As we stand I cannot think of current politician who could lead us through this pandemic and the coming economic crisis.

[View From The Top]

15 minutes ago, Dr. Kucho said:

Johnson and his government have made a mess of the way we try to tackle the Covid-19 pandemic. But then, imagine if Labour won the elections and we had Corbyn, Abbott and Thornbury leading us in these times. 
May might have done a better job, Cameron too as he is a good ‘talker’ and could be more clear. 
As we stand I cannot think of current politician who could lead us through this pandemic and the coming economic crisis.

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Dr. Kucho said:

Johnson and his government have made a mess of the way we try to tackle the Covid-19 pandemic. But then, imagine if Labour won the elections and we had Corbyn, Abbott and Thornbury leading us in these times. 
May might have done a better job, Cameron too as he is a good ‘talker’ and could be more clear. 
As we stand I cannot think of current politician who could lead us through this pandemic and the coming economic crisis.

An article I read a few weeks ago pointed out that we had May and Johnson the wrong way round. He would have blustered his way through Brexit. May would have had the diligence and been more conscientious with Covid.

Lets face it. She could have barely done a worse job than he has.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Dr. Kucho said:

Johnson and his government have made a mess of the way we try to tackle the Covid-19 pandemic. But then, imagine if Labour won the elections and we had Corbyn, Abbott and Thornbury leading us in these times. 
May might have done a better job, Cameron too as he is a good ‘talker’ and could be more clear. 
As we stand I cannot think of current politician who could lead us through this pandemic and the coming economic crisis.

The great lady would have done a damn sight better. She’d have taken tough decisions and wouldn’t have been afraid to be unpopular. 

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The great lady would have done a damn sight better. She’d have taken tough decisions and wouldn’t have been afraid to be unpopular. 

Also a scientist by trade rather than a newspaper columnist.

[Sheaf Saint]

1 hour ago, Dr. Kucho said:

Johnson and his government have made a mess of the way we try to tackle the Covid-19 pandemic. But then, imagine if Labour won the elections and we had Corbyn, Abbott and Thornbury leading us in these times. 
 

For all the myriad faults those you mention have (and they do have many), one thing you can guarantee is that they would not have prioritised the economy over people's lives, and they most certainly wouldn't have used the pandemic as an opportunity to gift £bns worth of private contracts to their corporate mates to deliver sub-standard or non-existent goods/services.

You notice how none of the ministers they put up for the daily briefings ever mentions our "world beating test and trace system" anymore? Where the fuck is Dido Harding?

[ecuk268]

3 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

For all the myriad faults those you mention have (and they do have many), one thing you can guarantee is that they would not have prioritised the economy over people's lives, and they most certainly wouldn't have used the pandemic as an opportunity to gift £bns worth of private contracts to their corporate mates to deliver sub-standard or non-existent goods/services.

 

The vaccination programme is going well because the NHS has been given the resources it needs.

Contrast that with the farcical test-and-trace and world-beating app which were farmed out to private companies. Also the many PPE contracts awarded to companies with no experience in that field because they were mates with a Tory MP. If they'd had their way, the vaccination contract would probably gone to a plumber from Scunthorpe who'd fixed an MP's toilet.    

[View From The Top]

Weeks more remote learning/teaching ahead. 😭

[trousers]

2 hours ago, View From The Top said:

# Trousers curiosity klaxon #

When did 'Whataboutery' become a bad thing? I remember the good ol' days where comparing one thing against another was a valid analytical tool. I guess the advent of social media, and the self-appointed intelligentsia therein, probably had a part to play in it becoming de rigeur?

[View From The Top]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

# Trousers curiosity klaxon #

When did 'Whataboutery' become a bad thing? I remember the good ol' days where comparing one thing against another was a valid analytical tool. I guess the advent of social media, and the self-appointed intelligentsia therein, probably had a part to play in it becoming de rigeur?

"What if Corbyn was PM?"

 

Yeah, that's an analytical tool right there.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, View From The Top said:

"What if Corbyn was PM?"

 

Yeah, that's an analytical tool right there.

Bit harsh on Corbyn that...

Edit: Ah, sorry, see what you mean now

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

Exactly.  In Barbados you now have to stay in quarantine for 5 days after entry in addition to having a negative test both before and after arrival.

In the UK you have always been able to walk in from overseas. Although you were meant to isolate after arrival, our "world class" tracking system didnt bother to check for people that I know.

Exactly.  In North Korea you have to isolate in an isolation 'facility' for 40 days.  Once you've finished with your isolation you are then moved to a 'quarantine' facility for a further 30 days.  Zero recorded cases.

We should be more like North Korea.

[badgerx16]

A US pharmacist has agreed to plead guilty to tampering with Covid vaccine vials because he believed the jabs could harm people, prosecutors say.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55821623

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

A US pharmacist has agreed to plead guilty to tampering with Covid vaccine vials because he believed the jabs could harm people, prosecutors say.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55821623

No doubt the loonies will described this as a whistle-blower being persecuted for telling the truth.