Coronavirus

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No win for the Government when it comes to schools!

Before Xmas people were shouting from the rooftops that it was unsafe for kids to be in school and the Government had blood on its hands keeping them in.

Now, just over a month later with infections still higher than they were pre Xmas and deaths rising daily people are clamouring for the kids to go back!

Returning after Easter (based on current figures) makes more sense than mid February!

"People"

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No win for the Government when it comes to schools!

Before Xmas people were shouting from the rooftops that it was unsafe for kids to be in school and the Government had blood on its hands keeping them in.

Now, just over a month later with infections still higher than they were pre Xmas and deaths rising daily people are clamouring for the kids to go back!

Returning after Easter (based on current figures) makes more sense than mid February!

No win for the government for anything. Whatever they do someone somewhere is criticising them or trying to score cheap political points. I see Piers Morgan was at it again this morning trying to twist the words of a minister who said part of the reason the UK has been hit so badly is we have an aging and obese population. 

[Weston Super Saint]

17 minutes ago, whelk said:

Have you considered boat schools?

They are a very good idea.  Not sure about the social distancing element though.

https://educateachild.org/our-partners-projects/projects/boat-schools-rural-children

Quote

EAC and BRAC are working in Bangladesh through the use of boat schools to break down the barriers that children face to accessing education in disaster prone and remote rural areas, where households are constrained due to challenging geographies and the negative consequences of extreme weather.

 

[Weston Super Saint]

15 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

"People"

Bless, are you struggling because I didn't give them a polarised nick name, like covidiots, remoaners or brexit scum?

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No win for the Government when it comes to schools!

Before Xmas people were shouting from the rooftops that it was unsafe for kids to be in school and the Government had blood on its hands keeping them in.

Now, just over a month later with infections still higher than they were pre Xmas and deaths rising daily people are clamouring for the kids to go back!

Returning after Easter (based on current figures) makes more sense than mid February!

Different people, innit.

[View From The Top]

3 hours ago, Born In The 80s said:

How do you know this? After half-term i get, but surely it's too early to make a call until Easter?

My two are 7 and 10 and are desperately missing school. Keeping Primary children off until Easter seems ridiculous to me. 

Because of my job and the jobs friends on mine have.

We've been planning since LD3 began for 2 scenarios.

1) Phased returned from early/mid-March.

2) Phased return after Easter.

I'd always hoped it would be 1, and I still hope it is, but it looks like it'll be 2.

Trust me, all teachers would sooner be in class with the kids instead being online as delivering lessons live from 08.30 - 16.30 is soul destroying.

That said, until infection rates are right down, you'll not be getting me in a small room with 30 teenagers.

 

[Sheaf Saint]

55 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Bless, are you struggling because I didn't give them a polarised nick name, like covidiots, remoaners or brexit scum?

I think it's more your assumption that it's the same people each time.

 

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Bless, are you struggling because I didn't give them a polarised nick name, like covidiots, remoaners or brexit scum?

"Bless"

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

No win for the government for anything. Whatever they do someone somewhere is criticising them or trying to score cheap political points. I see Piers Morgan was at it again this morning trying to twist the words of a minister who said part of the reason the UK has been hit so badly is we have an aging and obese population. 

Because if it was a Jeremy Corbyn government's planning that ended up with one of the worst death rates in the World you would just be handing out polite encouragement and support.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Because if it was a Jeremy Corbyn government's planning that ended up with one of the worst death rates in the World you would just be handing out polite encouragement and support.

I've told you before, putting a laughing emoji and making things up doesn't make anything you've said interesting, relevant or correct.

Unlike you and some of your other more limited posters I dont base my reaction on who the government is. The government have been a shambles, no one has pretended otherwise, but some people cant wait to criticise them for everything and anything. In some cases they are damned if they do damned if they dont.

Edited 25 January, 2021 by Turkish

[aintforever]

22 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I've told you before, putting a laughing emoji and making things up doesn't make anything you've said interesting, relevant or correct.

Unlike you and some of your other more limited posters I dont base my reaction on who the government is. The government have been a shambles, no one has pretended otherwise, but some people cant wait to criticise them for everything and anything. In some cases they are damned if they do damned if they dont.

Governments will always get criticised whatever they do, well done, great point made.

[aintforever]

13 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Bit of a mute point you putting your silly little laughing emoji after saying what you did about Corbyn as well then. Oh dear, another post where you've mugged yourself off and ended up looking silly trying to be smart. 

I was laughing at your hypocrisy.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I was laughing at your hypocrisy.

What hypocrisy?

[View From The Top]

You cannot blame the government, and believe me, I'd love to, for not saying when schools and colleges can go back. 

Whatever answer they give would be wrong with a section of people.

What you can and should do is hammer them for their inability to plan for exams being cancelled, failure of IT provision and the farce of feeding poor kids.

Edited 25 January, 2021 by View From The Top

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I think it's more your assumption that it's the same people each time.

 

Where exactly have I assumed this - although I'll bet that some of them are the same...

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Bit of a mute point you putting your silly little laughing emoji after saying what you did about Corbyn as well then. Oh dear, another post where you've mugged yourself off and ended up looking silly trying to be smart. 

aintclever by name....

[Weston Super Saint]

Typical racist BBC calling the virus variations after geographical locations.  Shame on them and the misuse of my licence fee.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55797312

Quote

Blood samples exposed to the new variants appeared to have sufficient antibodies to achieve this neutralising effect, although it was not as strong for the South Africa variant as for the UK one.

But good news about the vaccine though - even if they are all racist scum over at the BBC!

[buctootim]

49 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Where exactly have I assumed this - although I'll bet that some of them are the same...

So you did assume it then. Please tell me you're a comedy persona constructed by somebody clever.   

[revolution saint]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

No win for the government for anything. Whatever they do someone somewhere is criticising them or trying to score cheap political points. I see Piers Morgan was at it again this morning trying to twist the words of a minister who said part of the reason the UK has been hit so badly is we have an aging and obese population. 

Canada and the US both have higher rates of obesity than the UK but have a lower death rate due to COVID.  Far more countries including Japan, Italy, Portugal, Greece, and Germany have a higher percentage of over 65s than the UK and again have a lower death rate so the minister was wrong and attempting to shift the blame.  When that happens they should be challenged.  What's causing what was the worst death rate due to COVID in the world (I think we've moved down to second today) is the amount of cases we've had.  Again, we need to find out why this is.  The government are quite happy to lay the blame at the door of the public - grass up your neighbours, stop having parties, don't stray more than two miles from your house (and for the record I would agree we shouldn't be breaking the rules) but what seems to be a bigger driver of the increase in cases is the failure of test track and trace to identify people who should be self-isolating and the failure of people to do it when they have been informed. The government need to be looking at why this is.  The evidence seems to suggest that a lot of people are simply not in a position to be able to completely isolate - either because they can't afford to do so or because of other circumstances.  If you've got the second worst mortality rate due to COVID then it's right to ask why that is.  In this regard the rest of the developed world have all been far more effective at controlling infections rates.

I can understand people getting annoyed at constant bashing of the government and, in some case I think they're unjustified, however our woeful record during this pandemic justifies questions being asked.  It's not like we've done very well is it?  For the record I wouldn't criticise the lack of PPE during the first wave when the rest of the world was scrambling for whatever they could get their hands on.  I think the economic response has been decent and I think the vaccine rollout so far has been very good.

But..... the situation with care homes in the first lockdown was borderline criminal, the failure of the government to recognise infection trends and take notice and action early is very poor.  Every time we've had a lockdown it's only been after weeks of government denial that they've had to face the inevitable - how many lives could have been saved if we had locked down earlier?  The situation with schools has been farcical - threatening legal action over schools closing because they think infection rates make it unsafe to open and then days later closing schools when it was blatantly obvious that was going to happen.  Ridiculous.  As mentioned earlier our world class test, track and trace system is anything but world class.  The exams fiasco was completely avoidable.  

These are just some of the things the government has fucked up and they should be questioned on them - if our death rate was comparable to Germany, for example, then there wouldn't be as much need for criticism.  We're not there though and this is the price the government are going to have to pay.   

[Weston Super Saint]

38 minutes ago, buctootim said:

So you did assume it then. Please tell me you're a comedy persona constructed by somebody clever.   

Great, Mr thickie is here!

It's possible to accept that "some" of the people would be the same without assuming that "all" of them are.

Hopefully that's put things in simple enough terms for you, but do shout if you're still struggling.

[Weston Super Saint]

On 25/02/2020 at 19:08, whelk said:

Going to kill us all?

Looks like there could now be competition as to what kills the most people, the virus or the war over the vaccine!

[Turkish]

So this new variant. How do they know which variant it is? Dont you just get a positive or negative test when you go for one.

My mate who is still in ICU in a coma, on a ventilator and ECMO machine has tested positive just for Covid, they were asked specifically by his wife if they knew what variant he had, the doctor didnt know, they check the note and just recorded as covid. So surely people if they dont know people who are fighting for their lives then how do they know people with a mild cough who turn up at a test centre? I was always suspicious about this new variant was more of a cover up to excuse them for letting schools and universities go back and let it run riot through them, claiming it's more infectious in young people, course it is, they were mixing between September and December, they weren't March-August. 

[aintforever]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So this new variant. How do they know which variant it is? Dont you just get a positive or negative test when you go for one.

My mate who is still in ICU in a coma, on a ventilator and ECMO machine has tested positive just for Covid, they were asked specifically by his wife if they knew what variant he had, the doctor didnt know, they check the note and just recorded as covid. So surely people if they dont know people who are fighting for their lives then how do they know people with a mild cough who turn up at a test centre? I was always suspicious about this new variant was more of a cover up to excuse them for letting schools and universities go back and let it run riot through them, claiming it's more infectious in young people, course it is, they were mixing between September and December, they weren't March-August. 

I expect they just send off all the positive tests for further analysis, they don't tell people because they don't need to know. It's not rocket science.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I expect they just send off all the positive tests for further analysis, they don't tell people because they don't need to know. It's not rocket science.

They were asked specifically what variant it was one someone who is on an ICU ward who nearly died from it only 3 days ago and they've dozens of test every day on, the doctors said they didn't know, its just down as covid. So obviously they aren't sending all the positive tests off dopey. It's not rocket science. No surprises that you cant comprehend it though.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by Turkish

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I expect they just send off all the positive tests for further analysis, they don't tell people because they don't need to know. It's not rocket science.

 

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

They were asked specifically what variant it was one someone who is on an ICU ward who nearly died from it only 3 days ago and they've dozens of test every day on, the doctors said they didn't know, its just down as covid. So obviously they aren't sending all the positive tests off dopey. It's not rocket science. No surprises that you cant comprehend it though.

The genome sequencing that identifies the mutations is done by specialist laboratories on random samples; they know where the samples come from, but not necessarily the patient.

Edited 26 January, 2021 by badgerx16

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

They were asked specifically what variant it was one someone who is on an ICU ward who nearly died from it only 3 days ago and they've dozens of test every day on, the doctors said they didn't know, its just down as covid. So obviously they aren't sending all the positive tests off dopey. It's not rocket science. No surprises that you cant comprehend it though.

They could be sending them off but not communicating the results back down, I expect monitoring the different strains is only of use at a strategic level for developing vaccine etc.

 

[Turkish]

Just now, aintforever said:

They could be sending them off but not communicating the results back down, I expect monitoring the different strains is only of use at a strategic level for developing vaccine etc.

 

SO they're not telling the Surgeons working on people who are trying to keep dying people alive? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me. 

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 

The genome sequencing that identifies the mutations is done on random samples, they know where the samples come from, but not necessarily the patient.

Thanks for the sensible reply badger, much better than aintclevers standard "it's not rocket science" or laughing emoji before making himself look silly again.

I was very surprised to hear that the surgeons working on my friend didn't know, i would have assumed that someone who has been in an ICU for 4 weeks now and only being kept alive by an ECMO machine they would know exactly this sort of information. 

[Guided Missile]

Just now, Turkish said:

They were asked specifically what variant it was one someone who is on an ICU ward who nearly died from it only 3 days ago and they've dozens of test every day on, the doctors said they didn't know, its just down as covid. It's not rocket science. No surprises that you cant comprehend it though.

When someone is tested for the presence of the covid-19 virus, what is measured is a small fragment of the viral RNA present in the nasal fluids or saliva. The technique used to identify the small concentrations of these RNA fragments is known as PCR or Polymerase Chain Reaction, which is a method to amplify the amount of RNA fragments to allow them to be analysed. It's like a photocopier, but uses a heating cycle to accomplish this.

To identify the exact strain, the complete DNA of the virus need to be sequenced and the UK are the world leaders in this technique of genome sequencing. The sequence (determining the order of the bases in the viral DNA) is determined in about 10% of samples tested for covid, in the UK. In the US only 1% of the samples are sequenced. So, imagine one page of a book telling what the book is about, you need all the pages of the book, assembled in order, to read it.

So, it's not a simple positive/negative test. Luckily, the UK are world leaders in the identification of viral variants using genomic sequencing, although whatever the variant will not alter the treatment, so there's little point testing for it apart from statistical purposes aimed at preventing infection.

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

SO they're not telling the Surgeons working on people who are trying to keep dying people alive? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me. 

I expect the surgeons just need to know if they have got it or not, as quickly as possible.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

I expect the surgeons just need to know if they have got it or not, as quickly as possible.

They obviously know they've got it or they wouldn't be in an ICU with covid would they. It's not rocket science. 

[Trout-Tickler]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

SO they're not telling the Surgeons working on people who are trying to keep dying people alive? Doesn't sound like a great idea to me. 

The treatment administered is the same whether someone is infected with the N501Y mutant or wild type SARS-COV-2. As to identifying whether an infection is from mutant or wild-type virus that requires full genetic sequencing of the sample, the PCR test only gives a positive or negative result.

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

They obviously know they've got it or they wouldn't be in an ICU with covid would they. It's not rocket science. 

Or maybe it doesn't exist and it's a cover up for letting Unis go back.

[alehouseboys]

Total UK deaths now exceed 100k  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

UK: Total deaths 104,000 (nearly 4m cases)

Australia (just under half the UK population): Total deaths 900 (cases: 29,000)

[Guided Missile]

Just now, Trout-Tickler said:

The treatment administered is the same whether someone is infected with the N501Y mutant or wild type SARS-COV-2. As to identifying whether an infection is from mutant or wild-type virus that requires full genetic sequencing of the sample, the PCR test only gives a positive or negative result.

The PCR can provide an idea of the viral load, which is important in determining the severity of the disease.

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, alehouseboys said:

Total UK deaths now exceed 100k  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

UK: Total deaths 104,000 (nearly 4m cases)

Australia (just under half the UK population): Total deaths 900 (cases: 29,000)

Early on Australia made everybody coming into the country isolate under supervision. As a result their lives are near normal. Whereas the UK continued to make travel free and easy because we needed to be open for business -  global Britain bollocks. Thats why we're in our third lockdown and only now recognising OZ, NZ, Japan, Korea etc  had it right all along.  

[Lighthouse]

5 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

Total UK deaths now exceed 100k  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55757378

UK: Total deaths 104,000 (nearly 4m cases)

Australia (just under half the UK population): Total deaths 900 (cases: 29,000)

Half the population, spread out across an area of land around 25 times the size and stuck in the bottom corner of the Indian Ocean, hundreds of miles from anyone. You can’t seriously compare Oz to the UK.

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Or maybe it doesn't exist and it's a cover up for letting Unis go back.

Yesterday you were trying to make out i was stood by applauding everything the government does and calling me a hypocrite, today the laughing emoji reappears when i'm criticising the government and imply i dont trust them. Your daily embarrassment post count is complete. You may leave the forum.

[buctootim]

5 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Half the population, spread out across an area of land around 25 times the size and stuck in the bottom corner of the Indian Ocean, hundreds of miles from anyone. You can’t seriously compare Oz to the UK.

How about South Korea or Japan? Anyhow most of the population are concentrated in cities. Why do Melbourne and Sydney have nothing like the infection rates of UK cities?  

Edited 26 January, 2021 by buctootim

[Weston Super Saint]

3 minutes ago, buctootim said:

How about South Korea or Japan? 

Nope, neither of those are Australia. HTH.

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, buctootim said:

How about South Korea or Japan? 

No doubt they’ve dealt with it better, which I think comes from a few factors.

1. Their governments are better organised.
2. Their populations are better behaved and adhere to the rules
3. They have experience from previous SARS outbreaks.
4. They aren’t anywhere near as fat as we are.

[buctootim]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

No doubt they’ve dealt with it better, which I think comes from a few factors.

1. Their governments are better organised.
2. Their populations are better behaved and adhere to the rules
3. They have experience from previous SARS outbreaks.
4. They aren’t anywhere near as fat as we are.

Agree. It's primarily the quality of the government response rather than geography.  

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, buctootim said:

Agree. It's primarily the quality of the government response rather than geography.  

Well no, that’s not my point. It’s a combination of factors. It can’t be a coincidence that all the East Asian and Australasian governments are amazing but all the European governments are useless.

I’m not defending our government’s handling of this but to say it’s primarily their fault is a fallacy.

[buctootim]

6 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Well no, that’s not my point. It’s a combination of factors. It can’t be a coincidence that all the East Asian and Australasian governments are amazing but all the European governments are useless.

I’m not defending our government’s handling of this but to say it’s primarily their fault is a fallacy.

Ofc its not a coincidence, it's a deliberate plan of action - or in the UK's case inaction until it was too late.  Britain has the worst infection and death rate of any major country in the world apart from Belgium - and only then because their maverick chief epidemiologist brought in an odd counting system. Its certainly not by chance the UK has a worse record than Trumps US where they dealt with it by mass rallies and bleach.     

Edited 26 January, 2021 by buctootim

[aintforever]

26 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yesterday you were trying to make out i was stood by applauding everything the government does and calling me a hypocrite, today the laughing emoji reappears when i'm criticising the government and imply i dont trust them. Your daily embarrassment post count is complete. You may leave the forum.

I don’t trust this government either but they are not going to invent a new strain for political purposes, you are bordering on Trump supporter level with that one.

[Weston Super Saint]

Yep, we should have copied North Korea.  Zero cases there.  Why, oh, why aren't we more like them?

[aintforever]

14 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

Well no, that’s not my point. It’s a combination of factors. It can’t be a coincidence that all the East Asian and Australasian governments are amazing but all the European governments are useless.

I’m not defending our government’s handling of this but to say it’s primarily their fault is a fallacy.

There are a lot of factors but having a PM who does stuff like go on TV boasting about shaking hands with a whole Covid ward is not a great help.

[Tamesaint]

12 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Yep, we should have copied North Korea.  Zero cases there.  Why, oh, why aren't we more like them?

Nah. I prefer South Korea.  Few cases there but more freedom. 

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

I don’t trust this government either but they are not going to invent a new strain for political purposes, you are bordering on Trump supporter level with that one.

I can see you're struggling so let me help you. There have been hundreds if not thousands of strains, they dont need to invent one, My point was which you're obviously, but unsurprisingly not able to grasp is that they are claiming it's more infectious in young people. Is that true or is that because March-August schools and Unis were closed and kids werent mixing? Between September-december they were open and it was ripping through them, tens of thousands of cases in universities and of course that variant will spread like wildfire amongst students, because they spend the majority of their time mixing with other students often in confined spaces. So very convenient to blame a highly contagious strain in young people on a variant rather than actually face up to the face that hundreds of thousands of kids have been walking round infecting each other at school

I know you're not capable of stopping and thinking for a minute you just want to post silly laughing faces or say "it's not rocket science" over and over again or post other peoples opinions, but that's entirely possible is it not?

[Sheaf Saint]

10 minutes ago, aintforever said:

There are a lot of factors but having a PM who does stuff like go on TV boasting about shaking hands with a whole Covid ward is not a great help.

And going on This Morning and saying he wanted to let it spread through the population naturally, and standing up in front of a business leaders' conference and proclaiming himself to be the "Superman of Capitalism" by refusing to implement the necessary restrictions.

There may be multiple factors that have lead us to where we are, but having a criminally corrupt and incompetent government in Westminster is by far the single most critical one.