Coronavirus

[View From The Top]

They'll be a lot of this in the weeks ahead.

Central government, who have been gash throughout this whole thing, perhaps need to sit the fuck down at let the decision be made at a local level.

 

[hypochondriac]

42 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How will the non-attendance of teachers be considered?  Will it be classed as an 'unofficial' strike?

Not according to the NEU. They've got model letters to sign based on health and safety legislation and I know quite a number who have already sent off their letters. I'll be there but I'm not relishing the prospect of being shoved in a class with no planning. 

[hypochondriac]

42 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How will the non-attendance of teachers be considered?  Will it be classed as an 'unofficial' strike?

Not according to the NEU. They've got model letters to sign based on health and safety legislation and I know quite a number who have already sent off their letters. I'll be there but I'm not relishing the prospect of being shoved in a class with no planning. 

[benjii]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Life is unfair. When they leave school they are going to put their hearts and souls into all sorts of careers and other projects, only to see them completely collapse through no fault of their own and come away with nothing. If this is the worst thing that ever happens to them, they'll have had a much better life than me or many other people I know. 

No you're right, I don't. That's the best suggestion I can come up with. Given that the current plan is sending everyone back to school and killing a few hundred extra people, I think my 'clueless' idea is slightly better.

Bizarre post. I'm sorry you've had such a shit life though.

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

What happens to the parents who don't have child care when their kids aren't in school (grandparents haven't been an option for months)?

Do we cancel their working lives until September as well?  Who pays for this?

There are ways around every issue you've raised. 

One thing that cannot be sorted "after the fact" is hundreds more people dying every day than need to. 

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Life is unfair. When they leave school they are going to put their hearts and souls into all sorts of careers and other projects, only to see them completely collapse through no fault of their own and come away with nothing. If this is the worst thing that ever happens to them, they'll have had a much better life than me or many other people I know. 

No you're right, I don't. That's the best suggestion I can come up with. Given that the current plan is sending everyone back to school and killing a few hundred extra people, I think my 'clueless' idea is slightly better.

Exactly. I can't believe how many people are advocating for putting the next few months of a normal life ahead of other people dying. 

Which, by the way, is exactly the kind of callousness that the Tories have been accused of throughout all of this. 

[hypochondriac]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

 

All school closed in Southampton: 

 

 

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

All school closed in Southampton: 

 

That's not at all what the letter says. 

[Weston Super Saint]

19 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

There are ways around every issue you've raised.

Go for it, enlighten us as to what they are....

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

All school closed in Southampton: 

And to be fair, that works in tier four areas which are full lockdown in all but name.

To do the same in tier three (as the unions are suggesting) would be very different.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, buctootim said:

That's not at all what the letter says. 

I'll give you a list of primary schools in Southampton that have said they're closed apart for key workers and vulnerable if you like and you can tell me if it's every primary in Southampton. 

[Saint_clark]

8 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Go for it, enlighten us as to what they are....

We managed it in the first lockdown genius. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

We managed it in the first lockdown genius. 

Ah I see.

So your suggestion is that we have a full lockdown from January until September.

That sounds practical. Back to my previous question, who is going to pay for it, genius?

[Millbrook Saint]

Why don't they adjust the school holidays this year, bring forward the 6 week break in the summer to now, then adjust the other holidays to suit, that way the schools can stay closed for a few more weeks, which may just give us enough time to get more people vaccinated and hopefully not too much schooling will be missed

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Why don't they adjust the school holidays this year, bring forward the 6 week break in the summer to now, then adjust the other holidays to suit, that way the schools can stay closed for a few more weeks, which may just give us enough time to get more people vaccinated and hopefully not too much schooling will be missed

I'd support that. Expect the unions will go apoplectic at the idea though. 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'd support that. Expect the unions will go apoplectic at the idea though. 

I imagine the hospitality industry wouldn't be too pleased either! They're probably looking forward to earning some money next summer during the school holidays!

[hypochondriac]

7 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I imagine the hospitality industry wouldn't be too pleased either! They're probably looking forward to earning some money next summer during the school holidays!

I thought children were the priority? 

[View From The Top]

20 minutes ago, Millbrook Saint said:

Why don't they adjust the school holidays this year, bring forward the 6 week break in the summer to now, then adjust the other holidays to suit, that way the schools can stay closed for a few more weeks, which may just give us enough time to get more people vaccinated and hopefully not too much schooling will be missed

It would need some seriously creative thinking around exams / marking etc. Not sure I trust the DfE to do that.

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I thought children were the priority? 

Everyone's health should be priority. Kids bringing it home is a huge risk now, otherwise there is no way they've closed London primaries. 

[Millbrook Saint]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I imagine the hospitality industry wouldn't be too pleased either! They're probably looking forward to earning some money next summer during the school holidays!

Children seem to be more affected by the latest strain, if children are spreading it, we need to protect them, the staff and the staffs families, just until the vaccinations can be rolled out, maybe include teaching staff as well as a priority group.  There will still be breaks in the summer, they will just be shorter as the easter and half term breaks get shunted along.

[whelk]

51 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I'll give you a list of primary schools in Southampton that have said they're closed apart for key workers and vulnerable if you like and you can tell me if it's every primary in Southampton. 

But you posted a letter that clearly didn’t say that.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, whelk said:

But you posted a letter that clearly didn’t say that.

I didn't say it said that did I. 

[whelk]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I didn't say it said that did I. 

No sorry for assuming there may be a connection. 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

No sorry for assuming there may be a connection. 

I mean the connection between what I said and then that letter seems obvious. 

[whelk]

So when I told the missus that All Southampton schools are closed and she said hers wasn’t yet and I check a letter that basically says some might. Brilliant

[Weston Super Saint]

46 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I thought children were the priority? 

It's a juggling act. There are knock on effects to every single decision. Risks need to be evaluated, but no decision is ever going to make everyone happy and no decision is going to be 100% right.

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

It's a juggling act. There are knock on effects to every single decision. Risks need to be evaluated, but no decision is ever going to make everyone happy and no decision is going to be 100% right.

Of course that's obvious. So if it were an option, moving classes to the summer for the children would take precedence over hospitality losing revenue. 

[hypochondriac]

20 minutes ago, whelk said:

So when I told the missus that All Southampton schools are closed and she said hers wasn’t yet and I check a letter that basically says some might. Brilliant

Apologies if I wasn't clearer with my flippant comment on a messageboard. I'd be very surprised if the vast majority were not closed tomorrow. I know about 17 that have closed already. 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course that's obvious. So if it were an option, moving classes to the summer for the children would take precedence over hospitality losing revenue. 

From an education point of view, yes and you'd have no complaints from me.

I'm sure there would be plenty of families moaning about the loss of their summer holidays though!

[View From The Top]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Of course that's obvious. So if it were an option, moving classes to the summer for the children would take precedence over hospitality losing revenue. 

I'm not so sure that's actually true under this government.

[hypochondriac]

Just now, View From The Top said:

I'm not so sure that's actually true under this government.

It was WSS who mentioned the issue with hospitality not me. 

[View From The Top]

It's quite easy to say that we should just swap school holidays about but the logistics behind such a move are huge. It is an interesting proposition though.

If we did that it would mean that we'd be losing another 4 weeks teaching now. That means that the exams would need to be pushed back another four weeks.

That may seem easy enough but those exams have to be marked and who marks them? Teachers in the holidays so that needs to be factored in. 

Those results need to be in by late August ahead of A level and degree offers otherwise that means delaying the start of colleges and unis.

Add into that all the practical/BTEC type exams and assessments (some are next week) that also need re-organising.

If holidays were to be moved around then exams would need to be cancelled, or at least those whose final grade is only assessed by exam. I can't see a way of making it work personally.

You would also have a massive issue of families wanting to go away on holiday. Me included.

I know many, myself included, who had to cancel holidays in 2020 are planning "big holidays" in 2021 as replacements.

That may seem a tad flippant but you'll not find many people who are willing to give up a holiday 2 years running, no matter how you wrap it up and I'm pretty sure the travel and tourism lobby would be all over the government like a rash if they thought a 2nd summer running was being robbed from them.

Interesting idea though nevertheless.

[Millbrook Saint]

1 hour ago, View From The Top said:

It's quite easy to say that we should just swap school holidays about but the logistics behind such a move are huge. It is an interesting proposition though.

If we did that it would mean that we'd be losing another 4 weeks teaching now. That means that the exams would need to be pushed back another four weeks.

That may seem easy enough but those exams have to be marked and who marks them? Teachers in the holidays so that needs to be factored in. 

Those results need to be in by late August ahead of A level and degree offers otherwise that means delaying the start of colleges and unis.

Add into that all the practical/BTEC type exams and assessments (some are next week) that also need re-organising.

If holidays were to be moved around then exams would need to be cancelled, or at least those whose final grade is only assessed by exam. I can't see a way of making it work personally.

You would also have a massive issue of families wanting to go away on holiday. Me included.

I know many, myself included, who had to cancel holidays in 2020 are planning "big holidays" in 2021 as replacements.

That may seem a tad flippant but you'll not find many people who are willing to give up a holiday 2 years running, no matter how you wrap it up and I'm pretty sure the travel and tourism lobby would be all over the government like a rash if they thought a 2nd summer running was being robbed from them.

Interesting idea though nevertheless.

And that is the trouble the government has, I don't care which colour you are the same problems would still arise, the government are in a no win situation and to be honest people like Starmer are not helping the situation, it's easy for him to sit back throwing round demands, nothing he says has any consequence, so of course he can pass himself off as the reasonable person full of ideas, it's easy when your suggestions don't impact peoples lives.

government says close schools, you get parents complaining, you get the justifiable worries over childrens futures from Ofsted.

government says keep schools open, you get unions kicking off, you get teachers kicking off, again their worries are justified, my wife works in a school and I'm worried about her returning tomorrow.

Whatever the government says someone will say they're wrong.

Now Starmer is saying need a complete lockdown

government agrees, locks whole country down, people complain in some areas saying they have hardly any infections why should they be shutdown, hence the tiers.  Businesses complain about going bust, people complain about wanting to on holiday.

government refuses to lockdown, Starmer screams saying how Boris is killing people, unions kick off saying workers aren't safe.

It's hard enough for the government, no matter of which persuasion to deal with all this, and yes you do have some twats trying to score political points

[Lighthouse]

3 hours ago, benjii said:

Bizarre post. I'm sorry you've had such a shit life though.

The fact that you can't relate to it doesn't make it bizarre and no, I haven't had a sh*t life. Far from it IMO. Having your A levels messed around, whilst no doubt stressful, is pretty routine stuff. If nothing that bad has ever happened to you, then you're extremely fortunate. 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, Millbrook Saint said:

And that is the trouble the government has, I don't care which colour you are the same problems would still arise, the government are in a no win situation and to be honest people like Starmer are not helping the situation, it's easy for him to sit back throwing round demands, nothing he says has any consequence, so of course he can pass himself off as the reasonable person full of ideas, it's easy when your suggestions don't impact peoples lives.

government says close schools, you get parents complaining, you get the justifiable worries over childrens futures from Ofsted.

government says keep schools open, you get unions kicking off, you get teachers kicking off, again their worries are justified, my wife works in a school and I'm worried about her returning tomorrow.

Whatever the government says someone will say they're wrong.

Now Starmer is saying need a complete lockdown

government agrees, locks whole country down, people complain in some areas saying they have hardly any infections why should they be shutdown, hence the tiers.  Businesses complain about going bust, people complain about wanting to on holiday.

government refuses to lockdown, Starmer screams saying how Boris is killing people, unions kick off saying workers aren't safe.

It's hard enough for the government, no matter of which persuasion to deal with all this, and yes you do have some twats trying to score political points

 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Millbrook Saint said:

And that is the trouble the government has, I don't care which colour you are the same problems would still arise, the government are in a no win situation and to be honest people like Starmer are not helping the situation, it's easy for him to sit back throwing round demands, nothing he says has any consequence, so of course he can pass himself off as the reasonable person full of ideas, it's easy when your suggestions don't impact peoples lives.

government says close schools, you get parents complaining, you get the justifiable worries over childrens futures from Ofsted.

government says keep schools open, you get unions kicking off, you get teachers kicking off, again their worries are justified, my wife works in a school and I'm worried about her returning tomorrow.

Whatever the government says someone will say they're wrong.

Now Starmer is saying need a complete lockdown

government agrees, locks whole country down, people complain in some areas saying they have hardly any infections why should they be shutdown, hence the tiers.  Businesses complain about going bust, people complain about wanting to on holiday.

government refuses to lockdown, Starmer screams saying how Boris is killing people, unions kick off saying workers aren't safe.

It's hard enough for the government, no matter of which persuasion to deal with all this, and yes you do have some twats trying to score political points

When hundreds of people are dying because poor decisions on are made by people that we elect to look after us, then yes, political points need to be scored. People are accountable. If mistakes are made, those who make them are accountable. It doesn’t matter what the party is, who the PM is, they are accountable to the electorate. Yes, it is a hard job. But we expect the the person in power to put the best team together to do the best they can. We have the worse cabinet and the most ineffective PM I have had in my lifetime dealing with the biggest national threat since WW2. They are accountable for their decisions no matter what the circumstances.

[buctootim]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

I'll give you a list of primary schools in Southampton that have said they're closed apart for key workers and vulnerable if you like and you can tell me if it's every primary in Southampton. 

Better if you quote the letter accurately so as not mislead people. 

Edited 3 January, 2021 by buctootim

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

When hundreds of people are dying because poor decisions on are made by people that we elect to look after us, then yes, political points need to be scored. People are accountable. If mistakes are made, those who make them are accountable. It doesn’t matter what the party is, who the PM is, they are accountable to the electorate. Yes, it is a hard job. But we expect the the person in power to put the best team together to do the best they can. We have the worse cabinet and the most ineffective PM I have had in my lifetime dealing with the biggest national threat since WW2. They are accountable for their decisions no matter what the circumstances.

And then there are people like Soggy........

[sadoldgit]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

And then there are people like Soggy........

 And then there are people like Turkish 😙

[aintforever]

8 hours ago, Millbrook Saint said:

And that is the trouble the government has, I don't care which colour you are the same problems would still arise, the government are in a no win situation and to be honest people like Starmer are not helping the situation, it's easy for him to sit back throwing round demands, nothing he says has any consequence, so of course he can pass himself off as the reasonable person full of ideas, it's easy when your suggestions don't impact peoples lives.

government says close schools, you get parents complaining, you get the justifiable worries over childrens futures from Ofsted.

government says keep schools open, you get unions kicking off, you get teachers kicking off, again their worries are justified, my wife works in a school and I'm worried about her returning tomorrow.

Whatever the government says someone will say they're wrong.

Now Starmer is saying need a complete lockdown

government agrees, locks whole country down, people complain in some areas saying they have hardly any infections why should they be shutdown, hence the tiers.  Businesses complain about going bust, people complain about wanting to on holiday.

government refuses to lockdown, Starmer screams saying how Boris is killing people, unions kick off saying workers aren't safe.

It's hard enough for the government, no matter of which persuasion to deal with all this, and yes you do have some twats trying to score political points

The government is in a tough situation, and you are right, they will get criticised whatever they do. But they still need to be accountable for their decisions and Bozo has made some shockers.

With regards to schools, they seem incapable of working with teachers and seem more intent on just picking fights instead of just sitting down with the people who have to implement their ideas, presenting the science and working out the best solution. We all want kids to go back to school, teachers more than anyone, and we all want to minimise deaths. It appears to me like the government are more concerned about the optics and putting the blame on the teachers - they know that closing the schools is an unpopular thing to do so want to shift the blame. I mean, what is the point if statements like “it’s important kids get an education”? it’s just stating the obvious.

[Turkish]

6 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

 And then there are people like Turkish 😙

Only one of us is frothing at the gash at every bad new story, happy to use people’s deaths to score political points. Sums up what a sick individual you are despite your increasingly desperate attempts to appear like a lovely guy. The mask has slipped soggy. 

Edited 4 January, 2021 by Turkish

[View From The Top]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tfc-children-and-transmission-update-paper-17-december-2020

Children are much more likely than adults (for older kids, nearly 8x more likely) to be the first case of COVID in a household.

Also more likely to transmit to others in the household.

This is why so many of us bang on about wearing masks in class at secondary and tertiary.

[Weston Super Saint]

8 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

We have the worse cabinet and the most ineffective PM I have had in my lifetime dealing with the biggest national threat since WW2. 

Obviously that is true if you discount smallpox, AIDS and seasonal 'Flu and pretend that none of these have been a threat since WW2.

Other than that, completely factually correct.

Edited 4 January, 2021 by Weston Super Saint

[Adkins' Bus]

Surely it would now make sense to move teachers right up to the top of the priority list for vaccination. Obviously the over 80s are more vulnerable but is it asking too much for them to shield for a further month or so? 

The difference with teachers is the lack of ppe and issues with distancing with the younger pupils that puts them at greater threat.  

[Tamesaint]

1 hour ago, Adkins' Bus said:

Surely it would now make sense to move teachers right up to the top of the priority list for vaccination. Obviously the over 80s are more vulnerable but is it asking too much for them to shield for a further month or so? 

The difference with teachers is the lack of ppe and issues with distancing with the younger pupils that puts them at greater threat.  

Far too sensible an idea for it to be implemented. 

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, Tamesaint said:

Far too sensible an idea for it to be implemented. 

The teacher's unions did ask for this but it was turned down. It's obvious by now that this government is reactive not proactive. It waits until hospitals are bursting at the seams before it acts. 

We appear to be heading for a national lockdown with maybe stricter measures. But Boris is frightened by his own MPs and will only act when his hand is forced by the worsening situation. 

[aintforever]

4 hours ago, Adkins' Bus said:

Surely it would now make sense to move teachers right up to the top of the priority list for vaccination. Obviously the over 80s are more vulnerable but is it asking too much for them to shield for a further month or so? 

The difference with teachers is the lack of ppe and issues with distancing with the younger pupils that puts them at greater threat.  

At the very least the vulnerable teachers should be at the top.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

It waits until hospitals are bursting at the seams before it acts. 

 

That’s just not true. Poole is in tier 4 and last week there were 3 Covid patients in ICU. Unless there’s only 4 Covid beds that’s hardly “bursting at the seams”. I bet it’s the same in vast swathes of the country. Maybe they are locking down to stop it happening, but it’s not happening at the moment. 

Edited 4 January, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[View From The Top]

36 minutes ago, aintforever said:

At the very least the vulnerable teachers should be at the top.

TBF they are if they are clinically vulnerable.

I'm in group 6 due to having a damaged immune system thanks to radiotherapy and chemo.

Friend of mine, HoD at a school in Telford, is in group 4.

 

[Guided Missile]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Obviously that is true if you discount smallpox, AIDS and seasonal 'Flu and pretend that none of these have been a threat since WW2.

Other than that, completely factually correct.

You missed Brexit...

[Lighthouse]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Obviously that is true if you discount smallpox, AIDS and seasonal 'Flu and pretend that none of these have been a threat since WW2.

Other than that, completely factually correct.

Was AIDS really killing 500+ per day in the UK alone? Wow.