Coronavirus

[hypochondriac]

Two things can be true. Clearly authorities meddled to suppress many things outside of the narrative they wanted regarding the vaccine. At the same time, the vaccine is as safe as other vaccines and people who bash vaccines are hard of thinking. 

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[egg]

25 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I don't even think it is conspiracy theorists in this instance, rather it is people rapidly repositioning their attitudes to curry favour and match Trump's world view.

That's exactly what it is. Sycophantic big business owners are saying what they need to say. 

[badgerx16]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You’ve got an interview from the owner of Facebook saying that the Biden administration told them to take down anything negative. What other supporting evidence do you need?

 

 

Show the messages from the administration. If his moral compass was so upset by what he claims, why didn't he say it 3 years ago ? Why now, 2 weeks before Trump's inauguration ?

Edited January 11 by badgerx16
p

[sadoldgit]

I can just imagine social media in the Middle Ages -

Royal Proclamation

”We need to lock down cities, towns, villages and hamlets to stop the plague spreading”.

Commoners

”Don’t listen to them, it is fake news designed to control the turnip harvest so that the Lords can do away with us serfs and import cheaper turnips from Europe”.

”Listen to us, carry on harvesting your turnips and travelling between the markets in the cities, towns, villages, hamlets and those abroad too if you can find safe passage across the Channel. Don’t let the Deep State fool you. It is all a cunning plan we tell you! We have been told the truth by Baldrick!”

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I can just imagine social media in the Middle Ages -

Royal Proclamation

”We need to lock down cities, towns, villages and hamlets to stop the plague spreading”.

Commoners

”Don’t listen to them, it is fake news designed to control the turnip harvest so that the Lords can do away with us serfs and import cheaper turnips from Europe”.

”Listen to us, carry on harvesting your turnips and travelling between the markets in the cities, towns, villages, hamlets and those abroad too if you can find safe passage across the Channel. Don’t let the Deep State fool you. It is all a cunning plan we tell you! We have been told the truth by Baldrick!”

Jesus wept.

[Turkish]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

That's Badger's point. It's a claim. 

Yes and we’ll never really know the truth I know Zuckerberg is up trumps arse now but would be a big call to make something like that up 

[egg]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Yes and we’ll never really know the truth I know Zuckerberg is up trumps arse now but would be a big call to make something like that up 

Yes, but the point is that him saying it happened doesn't mean that it did. Regardless, governments were (correctly imo) trying to roll out viruses to try to get the world back to normal so on balance I have no problem with suppressing an anti vax agenda. 

[hypochondriac]

53 minutes ago, egg said:

That's exactly what it is. Sycophantic big business owners are saying what they need to say. 

Good. Dumping dei and censorship is not perfect but it's better than the alternative. 

[hypochondriac]

48 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I can just imagine social media in the Middle Ages -

Royal Proclamation

”We need to lock down cities, towns, villages and hamlets to stop the plague spreading”.

Commoners

”Don’t listen to them, it is fake news designed to control the turnip harvest so that the Lords can do away with us serfs and import cheaper turnips from Europe”.

”Listen to us, carry on harvesting your turnips and travelling between the markets in the cities, towns, villages, hamlets and those abroad too if you can find safe passage across the Channel. Don’t let the Deep State fool you. It is all a cunning plan we tell you! We have been told the truth by Baldrick!”

You fucking idiot. 

[sadoldgit]

Bloody governments, Big Pharma companies, scientists and their vaccines. Who do they think they are, coming round here trying to save my life? Bastards.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

Anybody can make a claim about anything, what helps is to provide supporting evidence.

It's not a wildly unlikely claim is it, given we have documented evidence of authorities demanding that of twitter pre Musk. I also don't see why he'd lie about something that could be so easily disproven. 

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

It's not a wildly unlikely claim is it, given we have documented evidence of authorities demanding that of twitter pre Musk. I also don't see why he'd lie about something that could be so easily disproven. 

It's a claim that could we'll be true, but the point is that he hasn't substantiated it.

That said, is his timing coincidental or contrived? 

[hypochondriac]

Trying to stretch a metaphor about trusting authority into the middle ages when authorities were busy throwing leeches on people and boring holes in skulls is about the stupidest thing I've ever seen on here. If anything that suggests the total opposite and that we very much shouldn't be listening to what those in power tell us to do. 

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

It's a claim that could we'll be true, but the point is that he hasn't substantiated it.

That said, is his timing coincidental or contrived? 

I think it's a combination of his own epiphany that he's been having for a few years now and the fact that Trump would probsbly forced him to do much of this stuff anyway and he doesn't want a fight about it. Either way it's great news, dei initiatives are cancerous and need removing and I'd far rather we had less censorship online than more so it's a good direction of travel. 

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[egg]

1 minute ago, hypochondriac said:

I think it's a combination of his own epiphany that he's been having for a few years now and the fact that Trump would have problems baby forced him to do much of this stuff anyway and he doesn't want a fight about it. Either way it's great news, dei initiatives are cancerous and need removing and I'd far rather we had less censorship online than more so it's a good direction of travel. 

I can't agree on a complete block on censorship. There's too many dinlos that treat anything they read as fact. We need to keep focus on the truth, not BS. 

[hypochondriac]

5 minutes ago, egg said:

I can't agree on a complete block on censorship. There's too many dinlos that treat anything they read as fact. We need to keep focus on the truth, not BS. 

I didn't say a complete block on censorship, I said I prefer a state of affairs where there is less censorship than more. If we are looking at censorship then I certainly don't want the government deciding what the truth is and what is bullshit. At the time it was a disgrace that legitimate narratives about China developing Covid were suppressed as one example under the mistaken belief that it was fake news. Look at the lengths that people have had to go to before the government would refer to Pakistani rape gangs and acknowledge a problem. Those are just two relatively minor recent examples. 

[egg]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I didn't say a complete block on censorship, I said I prefer a state of affairs where there is less censorship than more. If we are looking at censorship then I certainly don't want the government deciding what the truth is and what is bullshit. At the time it was a disgrace that legitimate narratives about China developing Covid were suppressed as one example under the mistaken belief that it was fake news. Look at the lengths that people have had to go to before the government would refer to Pakistani rape gangs and acknowledge a problem. Those are just two relatively minor recent examples. 

Ah, gotcha. Were there fact checked and evidence supported claims at the time that china developed COVID? 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Ah, gotcha. Were there fact checked and evidence supported claims at the time that china developed COVID? 

There was a level of evidence yes but less than desirable because the Chinese didn't want to release any for obvious reasons. 

[egg]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

There was a level of evidence yes but less than desirable because the Chinese didn't want to release any for obvious reasons. 

So you can't in fact point to any fact checked and evidence based claims that china developed COVID. 

Call me sensible, but I'd rather we prevented the distribution of non fact checked and non evidence based claims of a serious nature. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Bloody governments, Big Pharma companies, scientists and their vaccines. Who do they think they are, coming round here trying to save my life? Bastards.

 

Bloody governments saving your life? The Tory government you mean, lead by Boris Johnson, the Tories and Boris Johnson saved your life 👏👏👏👏

What about the hospital workers that we applauded and you admitted that you only did it so you could speak to you neighbours.
 

Such gratitude 🤣

 

Edited January 11 by Turkish

[Picard]

The House Judiciary Committee did an investigation into the White House censorship efforts.

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Bloody governments, Big Pharma companies, scientists and their vaccines. Who do they think they are, coming round here trying to save my life? Bastards.

Save it by putting it in cold storage. 

[Whitey Grandad]

55 minutes ago, egg said:

So you can't in fact point to any fact checked and evidence based claims that china developed COVID. 

Call me sensible, but I'd rather we prevented the distribution of non fact checked and non evidence based claims of a serious nature. 

Have you ever tried checking any facts in China?

[hypochondriac]

57 minutes ago, egg said:

So you can't in fact point to any fact checked and evidence based claims that china developed COVID. 

Call me sensible, but I'd rather we prevented the distribution of non fact checked and non evidence based claims of a serious nature. 

I don't think the individual case is particularly relevant to the broader point anyway. Who is providing the fact checking in your scenario? Who decides what is evidence based? Is speculation never allowed prior to something becoming fact checked and evidence based? 

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Have you ever tried checking any facts in China?

That was partly my point but like I said, that one example isn't relevant to the broader point about censorship. 

[egg]

19 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Have you ever tried checking any facts in China?

Err, I'm not making allegations against china. 

Hypo claimed that "legitimate narratives about China developing Covid were suppressed".

They weren't legitimate. They were unverified claims/lies. 

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Bloody governments, Big Pharma companies, scientists and their vaccines. Who do they think they are, coming round here trying to save my life? Bastards.

This post should be pinned. 
 

Sad Old Git praising the Tory government he hated so much for saving his life. All to try and score points on an internet forum. The hypocrisy is outed

All hail Tories. All hail Boris Johnson 

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[aintforever]

50 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

That was partly my point but like I said, that one example isn't relevant to the broader point about censorship. 

What exactly was censored? I remember reading all sorts about the possible side-effects, from the government, MSM and online.

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Err, I'm not making allegations against china. 

Hypo claimed that "legitimate narratives about China developing Covid were suppressed".

They weren't legitimate. They were unverified claims/lies. 

Are you claiming that Covid did not originate from a Wuhan lab leak? 

[hypochondriac]

32 minutes ago, aintforever said:

What exactly was censored? I remember reading all sorts about the possible side-effects, from the government, MSM and online.

I'm not sure I mentioned anything about the vaccine. I've already said I support vaccines and disagree with the narrative that they are harmful. 

[sadoldgit]

There were numerous scare stories doing the rounds about the vaccine at the time. Wasn’t Bill Gates supposed to be injecting us all with microchips? It’s odd how history gets rewritten, especially as it was only a few years ago.

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

There were numerous scare stories doing the rounds about the vaccine at the time. Wasn’t Bill Gates supposed to be injecting us all with microchips? It’s odd how history gets rewritten, especially as it was only a few years ago.

What can’t be rewritten is that the Tories saved your life. You even admitted it yourself 👏👏👏👏👏

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Ah, gotcha. Were there fact checked and evidence supported claims at the time that china developed COVID? 

No, nor would there be. COVID-19 was developed by Mother Nature.

 

( Waiting for nic's laughing emoji ).

Edited January 11 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

32 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Are you claiming that Covid did not originate from a Wuhan lab leak? 

That is different to saying China 'developed' it. If the smallpox stored at Porton Down somehow escaped it would not mean the UK Government developed the virus. Even so, there is no evidence to directly suggest a lab leak.

The Wuhan lab was a world renowned research institute investigating numerous viruses found in the wild.

Edited January 11 by badgerx16

[egg]

38 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Are you claiming that Covid did not originate from a Wuhan lab leak? 

I'm making no claims. It's you who's saying that there were apparently legitimate reports that china created COVID. I saw no such claims at the time, and would be grateful for the links. 

Thank you. 

[hypochondriac]

39 minutes ago, egg said:

I'm making no claims. It's you who's saying that there were apparently legitimate reports that china created COVID. I saw no such claims at the time, and would be grateful for the links. 

Thank you. 

You're focusing on one example and it really is about the wider point as I said about censorship and who decides what truth is but clearly at the time people were being censored and prevented from even discussing the possibility of the theory (people were getting banned from social media platforms and YouTube in particular for simply mentioning the lab leak theory or the fact that there's a novel coronavirus lab in the same place where a novel coronavirus showed up). It was dismissed as a conspiracy theory and is now widely viewed as the most likely occurance. There's still no hard evidence though so by your logic we should be censored from discussing it. 

The wider point stands, there are of course other occurances where people have been censored or prevented from speaking because someone has decided they don't like their speech or because they have decided that they are the arbitors of what is true and untrue and I don't think it's right to give politicians or those in authority that power. 

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

53 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

That is different to saying China 'developed' it. If the smallpox stored at Porton Down somehow escaped it would not mean the UK Government developed the virus. Even so, there is no evidence to directly suggest a lab leak.

The Wuhan lab was a world renowned research institute investigating numerous viruses found in the wild.

Reports have concluded that it is the most likely outcome (and clearly it is). Of course there's no direct evidence because it's not In the CCP's interest for there to be any. They were most likely doing gain of function research and it accidentally got released. That's not the same as Smallpox leaking because Smallpox is an existing virus. This clip from that well known far right conspiracy theorist Jon Stewart is decent:

https://youtu.be/sSfejgwbDQ8

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

 That's not the same as Smallpox leaking because Smallpox is an existing virus. This clip from that well known far right conspiracy theorist Jon Stewart is decent:

 

So is SARS-COV-2.

[badgerx16]

15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

This clip from that well known far right conspiracy theorist Jon Stewart is decent:

https://youtu.be/sSfejgwbDQ8

Apart from the laboratory's name is the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences.

 

Also;

"Declassified US intelligence report finds no evidence of coronavirus 'lab leak' from Wuhan institute"

https://www.livescience.com/health/coronavirus/declassified-us-intelligence-report-finds-no-evidence-of-coronavirus-lab-leak-from-wuhan-institute

 

Edited January 11 by badgerx16

[hypochondriac]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Apart from the laboratory's name is the Wuhan Institute of Virology, Chinese Academy of Sciences.

The fact remains it's a completely plausible theory supported by the FBI and people were censored from discussing it at the time. They should not have been. It doesn't invalidate the wider point. 

[badgerx16]

Good game, this;

"SARS‐CoV‐2, Covid‐19, and the debunking of conspiracy theories"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7995093/

 

"US intelligence agencies have found no direct evidence that Covid-19 broke out from a Chinese laboratory, a declassified report has said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66005240

[egg]

Just now, badgerx16 said:

Good game, this;

"SARS‐CoV‐2, Covid‐19, and the debunking of conspiracy theories"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7995093/

 

"US intelligence agencies have found no direct evidence that Covid-19 broke out from a Chinese laboratory, a declassified report has said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66005240

But, but, but, there were legitimate claims Badger, hypo said so (noting that the best hypo can do is refer to a report from 2023, not at the time the virus was actually an issue). 

[hypochondriac]

42 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Good game, this;

"SARS‐CoV‐2, Covid‐19, and the debunking of conspiracy theories"

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7995093/

 

"US intelligence agencies have found no direct evidence that Covid-19 broke out from a Chinese laboratory, a declassified report has said."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66005240

Could do this all day really but the fact remains it is a viable and plausible possibility whether you believe it definitely was or that we aren't certain either way. I don't think that discussing that should have been censored. 

Edited January 11 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

But, but, but, there were legitimate claims Badger, hypo said so (noting that the best hypo can do is refer to a report from 2023, not at the time the virus was actually an issue). 

So in your mind it's now reasonable to discuss the possibility of a lab leak because the FBI have said it is the most likely scenario? So anyone expressing that view prior to 2023 should have been censored or banned from social media? Yes? 

[egg]

3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

So in your mind it's now reasonable to discuss the possibility of a lab leak because the FBI have said it is the most likely scenario? So anyone expressing that view prior to 2023 should have been censored or banned from social media? Yes? 

Pointing to articles from 2023 is not evidence of legitimate reports from  2020/21! 

Bless. 

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, egg said:

Pointing to articles from 2023 is not evidence of legitimate reports from  2020/21! 

Bless. 

Pathetic non answer that doesn't answer the qiestion. You've seemingly accepted that now it is a reasonable thing to discuss because we've had what you describe as legitimate reports in 2023. Presumably before 2023 it is not a reasonable thing to discuss by your logic. People were being banned and censored for merely discussing the possibility of a lab leak prior to 2023. In your view this is legitimate yes? 

[AlexLaw76]

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/25/cia-covid-wuhan-lab-leak-trump.html

[badgerx16]

"The CIA assesses with low confidence...", so that's conclusive.

Pure coincidence that the new Trump appointed head of the Agency took up post the day before this announcement.

[aintforever]

Studies of the earliest viral genomes seem to indicate the Wuhan market as the cause, they even pinpoint the actual location within the market.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2448671-evidence-points-to-wuhan-market-as-source-of-covid-19-outbreak/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8095xjg4po

We will probably never know for sure but it would be interesting to see the actual evidence for it starting from the lab.

[badgerx16]

2 hours ago, aintforever said:

Studies of the earliest viral genomes seem to indicate the Wuhan market as the cause, they even pinpoint the actual location within the market.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2448671-evidence-points-to-wuhan-market-as-source-of-covid-19-outbreak/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8095xjg4po

We will probably never know for sure but it would be interesting to see the actual evidence for it starting from the lab.

I'm amazed we have had to to wait so long for it to be fabricated.