Coronavirus

[Fan The Flames]

I get the point about about there has to be a point where we stop, but the first winter after the pandemic doesn't feel like the right point. Mask wearing is such a small imposition and its more about reducing the burden on the NHS then protecting anti-vaxxers.

[Picard]

A non-conspiratorial chat about vaccine damage 

 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:15, Fan The Flames said:

I get the point about about there has to be a point where we stop, but the first winter after the pandemic doesn't feel like the right point. Mask wearing is such a small imposition and its more about reducing the burden on the NHS then protecting anti-vaxxers.

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Another way to protect the NHS is to refuse treatment for those not vaccinated...

[Tamesaint]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:45, Weston Super Saint said:

Another way to protect the NHS is to refuse treatment for those not vaccinated...

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A dangerous route to go down. 

Lets refuse treatment for the unvaccinated

... and people who are fat....

... and people who smoke....

... and anyone who drinks.... etc etc.

[whelk]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:51, Tamesaint said:

A dangerous route to go down. 

Lets refuse treatment for the unvaccinated

... and people who are fat....

... and people who smoke....

... and anyone who drinks.... etc etc.

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Would save a few bob 

[Turkish]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:51, Tamesaint said:

A dangerous route to go down. 

Lets refuse treatment for the unvaccinated

... and people who are fat....

... and people who smoke....

... and anyone who drinks.... etc etc.

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When they reckon 70% of most health issues can be resolved by changes to diet and lifestyle then it might be worth looking at. 

[ecuk268]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:51, Tamesaint said:

A dangerous route to go down. 

Lets refuse treatment for the unvaccinated

... and people who are fat....

... and people who smoke....

... and anyone who drinks.... etc etc.

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The entire population of P*mpey?

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:04, Weston Super Saint said:

People are always going to catch it!

People are far more likely to end up in hospital / in intensive care if they have refused a vaccination.  Whilst wearing a mask 'may' reduce some of those infections (although those that have refused the vaccine probably won't take any other steps to help stop themselves catching the virus), maybe the question should be 'do we want to protect those selfish cunts'?

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  On 22/10/2021 at 06:06, Weston Super Saint said:

Today's article here , lacking in detail but it does have this quote :

But yeah, I'm all for more restrictions to protect the selfish cunts that refused to have a vaccine....

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It's the other way round. We need to force the selfish arseholes to wear masks in order to protect the unselfish ones.

[benjii]

I flew into Heathrow yesterday.

Before I departed the airline checked if I'd filled in a passenger locator form, but there was no check on vaccine status.

When I arrived at Heathrow I was waved through the electronic passport gates and that was that. No check on travel history or vaccine status. 

I presume the Day 2 test result is logged centrally, hence the need to put the booking reference on the locator form, but it feels like a strange system that lets anyone in with essentially zero verification of covid or vaccination status until test results which will be available 3 days after entry.

It feels like it would be extremely easy to circumvent red list quarantine. 

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 22/10/2021 at 11:57, Whitey Grandad said:

 

It's the other way round. We need to force the selfish arseholes to wear masks in order to protect the unselfish ones.

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Not according to the figures (although scarce), which suggest it is the unvaccinated that are ending up in hospital, not the vaccinated as they are already protected (to a certain degree).

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:51, Tamesaint said:

A dangerous route to go down. 

Lets refuse treatment for the unvaccinated

... and people who are fat....

... and people who smoke....

... and anyone who drinks.... etc etc.

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Yet moving into 'phase 2' (or whatever it's called these days!) of the Government's plan involves introducing covid passports which will refuse access for the unvaccinated to a whole range of things, not a great leap to add NHS care as one those things they don't have access to (although I'd caveat that with 'if there's space, then why not, otherwise you're on your own', which would instantly solve the NHS being overwhelmed issues).

[Weston Super Saint]

We also have 'no jab, no job' coming in next month for Care workers, so we're already happy to stop the selfish cunts from earning money (although in reality they'll go and work elsewhere!), but there's a moral dilemma around withdrawing NHS care?

[Lighthouse]

  On 22/10/2021 at 12:36, Weston Super Saint said:

We also have 'no jab, no job' coming in next month for Care workers, so we're already happy to stop the selfish cunts from earning money (although in reality they'll go and work elsewhere!), but there's a moral dilemma around withdrawing NHS care?

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Correct. Nobody is entitled to any specific job, it’s earned by meeting the requirements specified in the description. That can be qualifications, experience and/or something else.

Personally, I’d treat anti-vaxxers but I’d ‘defer’ their treatment until after all other outpatient care is caught up with and staff have had a break. If that takes six months, we’ll that’s a shame, isn’t it.

[buctootim]

  On 22/10/2021 at 10:43, Turkish said:

When they reckon 70% of most health issues can be resolved by changes to diet and lifestyle then it might be worth looking at. 

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Would be interesting to see the real world costs of different lifestyles. 

Healthier lifestyles are leading people to live longer - but do not have more disease free years. So basically, on average, you have time to develop multiple chronic conditions which need to be managed and use more NHS services and draw more pension. Fat smoking git pays a lot of tax whilst working then drops dead from heart attack, stroke or cancer before drawing pension or shortly after. 

If you want an affordable NHS and pension bill arguably we should all live off bacon sandwiches, sugar and Marlboro.   

    

 

Edited 22 October, 2021 by buctootim

[buctootim]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:35, Picard said:

A non-conspiratorial chat about vaccine damage 

 

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It's a case study of one. Co-incidence is real and it really does mean nothing. Ideopathic (without known cause) pericarditis has been around a lot longer than covid.  

[aintforever]

  On 22/10/2021 at 13:12, buctootim said:

Would be interesting to see the real world costs of different lifestyles. 

Healthier lifestyles are leading people to live longer - but do not have more disease free years. So basically, on average, you have time to develop multiple chronic conditions which need to be managed and use more NHS services and draw more pension. Fat smoking git pays a lot of tax whilst working then drops dead from heart attack, stroke or cancer before drawing pension or shortly after. 

If you want an affordable NHS and pension bill arguably we should all live off bacon sandwiches, sugar and Marlboro.   

    

 

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That's a good point. My nan lived a super-healthy lifestyle and survived until she was 96 but for the last 5 or 6 she was in a home and receiving palliative care for god knows how long which was very expensive.

Edited 22 October, 2021 by aintforever

[The Kraken]

  On 22/10/2021 at 12:23, benjii said:

I flew into Heathrow yesterday.

Before I departed the airline checked if I'd filled in a passenger locator form, but there was no check on vaccine status.

When I arrived at Heathrow I was waved through the electronic passport gates and that was that. No check on travel history or vaccine status. 

I presume the Day 2 test result is logged centrally, hence the need to put the booking reference on the locator form, but it feels like a strange system that lets anyone in with essentially zero verification of covid or vaccination status until test results which will be available 3 days after entry.

It feels like it would be extremely easy to circumvent red list quarantine. 

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The UK passenger locator form requires you to upload your vaccine certificate. Or at least it did when I did mine recently.

But it strikes me the whole thing is a sham, and I reckon anybody with a bit of photoshop skills could get around it all quite easily, the electronic and manual checks are not exactly vigorous.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 22/10/2021 at 13:25, buctootim said:

It's a case study of one. Co-incidence is real and it really does mean nothing. Ideopathic (without known cause) pericarditis has been around a lot longer than covid.  

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Indeed. My sister had pericarditis over ten years ago and tht wasn't due to a Covid vaccine.

[Whitey Grandad]

  On 22/10/2021 at 12:25, Weston Super Saint said:

Not according to the figures (although scarce), which suggest it is the unvaccinated that are ending up in hospital, not the vaccinated as they are already protected (to a certain degree).

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OK then. They should be forced to mask up in order to protect the unvaccinated. From their own stupidity if nothing else.

[Fan The Flames]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:45, Weston Super Saint said:

Another way to protect the NHS is to refuse treatment for those not vaccinated...

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Big big call, one we are light years away from making.

[benjii]

  On 22/10/2021 at 14:15, The Kraken said:

The UK passenger locator form requires you to upload your vaccine certificate. Or at least it did when I did mine recently.

But it strikes me the whole thing is a sham, and I reckon anybody with a bit of photoshop skills could get around it all quite easily, the electronic and manual checks are not exactly vigorous.

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I didn't have to upload any vaccine proof to do the form online, I just had to make a declaration. I don't live in the UK, so maybe it's a different form if you are UK resident going on a trip.

Like I say, in any event, no authority at Heathrow checked it, either airport or border control, so it seems pointless, unless a failure to take a day 2 test is the trigger for action and follow up, by which point we are 4 or 5 days into someone bringing a new variant in. 

Edited 22 October, 2021 by benjii

[The Kraken]

  On 22/10/2021 at 16:01, benjii said:

I didn't have to upload any vaccine proof to do the form online, I just had to make a declaration. I don't live in the UK, so maybe it's a different form if you are UK resident going on a trip.

Like I say, in any event, no authority at Heathrow checked it, either airport or border control, so it seems pointless, unless a failure to take a day 2 test is the trigger for action and follow up, by which point we are 4 or 5 days into someone bringing a new variant in. 

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Yeah, the UK version required me to upload my vaccine by the QR code scan. So while I’d like to think there’s some checks there, I’m not totally sure.

The whole 2 day test seems completely unchecked to me. You only need to give a booking ref, so unless there’s a nationwide database that collates private tests (very doubtful but maybe?) there’s zero checks on actually doing the test in the first place. I’ve seen on another forum people stating that they’ve entered bogus Randox booking codes and been fine to travel. 

It just seems like a mess.

For travel to Europe it seems a little bit more regulated. I had to upload vaccine documents and locator forms to the BA website and those needed to go through an approval process before getting confirmation to fly. Not so rigorous for me coming back this way though, no uploads required via the airline itself and no checks other than self declarations of where I had been.

Edited 22 October, 2021 by The Kraken

[buctootim]

  On 22/10/2021 at 16:08, The Kraken said:

Yeah, the UK version required me to upload my vaccine by the QR code scan. So while I’d like to think there’s some checks there, I’m not totally sure.

 

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Sure the code is traceable but its up to you if you declare that test to be negative or positive. One of the UK weaknesses is that the UK allows self administered lateral flow tests - so you can simply lie about the result. 

I came back from France when it was red. Despite being armed with a battery of tests and apps immigration were only interested in a cursory look at my passport. Customs however spent 15 minutes questioning me about the case of wine I'd brought back. Priorities, priorities     

Edited 22 October, 2021 by buctootim

[Turkish]

 

  On 22/10/2021 at 13:12, buctootim said:

Would be interesting to see the real world costs of different lifestyles. 

Healthier lifestyles are leading people to live longer - but do not have more disease free years. So basically, on average, you have time to develop multiple chronic conditions which need to be managed and use more NHS services and draw more pension. Fat smoking git pays a lot of tax whilst working then drops dead from heart attack, stroke or cancer before drawing pension or shortly after. 

If you want an affordable NHS and pension bill arguably we should all live off bacon sandwiches, sugar and Marlboro.   

    

 

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The problem we have is that health people don’t equal profits. Hardly surprising that the people who live the longest and healthiest lives in Europe live round the med, gets lots of sunlight and fresh air live off fresh meat and veg.

healthy people aren’t profitable for the Uk. They don’t buy processed food, booze and fag companies don’t make money from them, big pharmaceuticals don’t sell them pills. So you’re right having healthy people doesn’t bring in taxes and costs in pensions. 

Edited 22 October, 2021 by Turkish

[Turkish]

  On 22/10/2021 at 13:51, aintforever said:

That's a good point. My nan lived a super-healthy lifestyle and survived until she was 96 but for the last 5 or 6 she was in a home and receiving palliative care for god knows how long which was very expensive.

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That’s a good life though. Average age is over 10 years below that. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

  On 22/10/2021 at 16:08, The Kraken said:

 

For travel to Europe it seems a little bit more regulated. I had to upload vaccine documents and locator forms to the BA website and those needed to go through an approval process before getting confirmation to fly. Not so rigorous for me coming back this way though, no uploads required via the airline itself and no checks other than self declarations of where I had been.

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I’ve been to The Caneries twice since Sept and the UK locator & Spainish health forms were pretty similar, as were the checks at either end. The airlines were stricter and checked more thoroughly than the civil servants from either country. The only people who really gave a shite were the hotels in the caneries who face massive fines if they don’t witness and record all their guests vaccination status. 
 

It was interesting seeing the various nationalities attitude towards Covid, it’s easy to judge because the bars and centres are broken down into nationalities. The Spainish were the most cautious, the Germans and Dutch far and away the most carefree. 

[whelk]

  On 22/10/2021 at 09:45, Weston Super Saint said:

Another way to protect the NHS is to refuse treatment for those not vaccinated...

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We could actually send them the health bill. Would get my full support and no doubt 90% of the electorate. You chose this option so here is the charge.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 25/10/2021 at 14:41, whelk said:

We could actually send them the health bill. Would get my full support and no doubt 90% of the electorate. You chose this option so here is the charge.

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Only one small issue with that, I'd wager 90% of those that haven't had the vaccine wouldn't have a pot to piss in.

[Lighthouse]

  On 25/10/2021 at 15:52, Weston Super Saint said:

Only one small issue with that, I'd wager 90% of those that haven't had the vaccine wouldn't have a pot to piss in.

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What on Earth makes you think that?

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 25/10/2021 at 16:03, Lighthouse said:

What on Earth makes you think that?

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Stupid people don't tend to be very rich....

[Fan The Flames]

  On 25/10/2021 at 16:13, Weston Super Saint said:

Stupid people don't tend to be very rich....

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Unless they are a footballer 

[Winnersaint]

I heard this from a Colorectal surgeon who operated on my wife in March 2020. She’s had a few issues with the oncology team treating her and raised this with him during a stay in hospital last week. According to the guy who has a reputation second to none as one the really good guys, the same oncology team had had to deal with 14 people all under 48 in the last week diagnosed with cancer who are untreatable due to late diagnoses. This is one large hospital in the Thames Valley. If repeated across the UK the fallout may well likely be greater than that of the pandemic.

[Fan The Flames]

We would never do this here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other but an interesting approach.

[whelk]

  On 09/11/2021 at 07:45, Fan The Flames said:

We would never do this here https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other but an interesting approach.

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  On 25/10/2021 at 14:41, whelk said:

We could actually send them the health bill. Would get my full support and no doubt 90% of the electorate. You chose this option so here is the charge.

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[Fan The Flames]

The health bill could be deducted from future benefits, state pension, tax relief etc.

[Lighthouse]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boycott-tesco-father-christmas-advert/
 

As a regular Tesco shopper, I’m absolutely devastated that I won’t be able to buy my groceries in the company of antivaxxers any longer. 

[whelk]

  On 14/11/2021 at 15:47, Lighthouse said:

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/boycott-tesco-father-christmas-advert/
 

As a regular Tesco shopper, I’m absolutely devastated that I won’t be able to buy my groceries in the company of antivaxxers any longer. 

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Antivaxxers are thick and poor so probably Tesco might be out of their price range anyway.  

[Lighthouse]

I think Londis have a BOGOFF going on bleach and syringes.

[whelk]

Like it

Covid: Austria orders nationwide lockdown for unvaccinated https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59283128

 

[saint1977]

  On 14/11/2021 at 17:31, whelk said:

Like it

Covid: Austria orders nationwide lockdown for unvaccinated https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59283128

 

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It’s a courageous move - one I’d take, but can’t see English politicians wanting to. Devolved assemblies might have more cojones to do it. Have seen some appalling anti vax disorder recently - protest outside an ambulance station in the Midlands (passing motorists were giving them some pieces of their mind!) 

Then we had the Guido masks nonsense last weekend in London led by the freak Piers Corbyn. More Facebook misinformation victims out now causing trouble in the West Country - Exeter, trying to attack Jeremy Vine in Torbay where he was speaking. Well done to the residents of Totnes for chasing off a nascent protest there. Fair enough stand there with your placards but when allegedly trying to intimidate the public that’s not on. If they don’t want the vaccine we can’t force it but unfair on those who want it but can’t have it because of other conditions. 

Edited 14 November, 2021 by saint1977

[whelk]

  On 14/11/2021 at 19:38, saint1977 said:

It’s a courageous move - one I’d take, but can’t see English politicians wanting to. Devolved assemblies might have more cojones to do it. Have seen some appalling anti vax disorder recently - protest outside an ambulance station in the Midlands (passing motorists were giving them some pieces of their mind!) 

Then we had the Guido masks nonsense last weekend in London led by the freak Piers Corbyn. More Facebook misinformation victims out now causing trouble in the West Country - Exeter, trying to attack Jeremy Vine in Torbay where he was speaking. Well done to the residents of Totnes for chasing off a nascent protest there. Fair enough stand there with your placards but when allegedly trying to intimidate the public that’s not on. If they don’t want the vaccine we can’t force it but unfair on those who want it but can’t have it because of other conditions. 

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Indeed. If I tested positive I would be very tempted to join in one of their pathetic protests making sure I cough cough and cough some more.

[Turkish]

I see they are warning of difficult months ahead but once spring gets here things should be calmer. “Just a few more months” been the mantra since the start hasn’t it

[AlexLaw76]

How long before you are not classed as vaccinated (both jabs), unless you have had the booster?

 

[saint1977]

  On 16/11/2021 at 06:29, AlexLaw76 said:

How long before you are not classed as vaccinated (both jabs), unless you have had the booster?

 

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My prediction is March 2022 or thereabouts. Maybe February but you can see a big drive for the 40-49 age group with the message of saving Xmas from restrictions. I’ll be due mine just before that and will get it done. 

They probably want the over 40s done in the first instance to try and keep a lid on NHS winter pressures if they can get 65-70% covered as well as the older age groups. There’s a hardcore of people who won’t/don’t get around to having it in the first place so I guess the strategy is to get as many of the existing people with 2 jabs done and reduce the circulation of the strains which cause serious illness in the coldest months. Then the hardcore can be tackled in the spring as long as that’s not unseasonably cold. 

Edited 16 November, 2021 by saint1977

[Lighthouse]

  On 15/11/2021 at 19:22, Turkish said:

“Just a few more months” been the mantra since the start hasn’t it

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Month of what? Everything's open and has been for six months. People are moving around, you can basically go to any country who will let you in and come back.

[Turkish]

  On 16/11/2021 at 06:29, AlexLaw76 said:

How long before you are not classed as vaccinated (both jabs), unless you have had the booster?

 

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They are starting to plant the seed

UK Covid crisis: Boris says he CAN'T rule out Xmas lockdown (msn.com)

[whelk]

We are pretty well designed aren’t we?

 

[whelk]

  On 16/11/2021 at 10:49, Turkish said:

They are starting to plant the seed

UK Covid crisis: Boris says he CAN'T rule out Xmas lockdown (msn.com)

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Sort of bs journalist question where they get sensationalist headline which ever way he answers. 

[Sheaf Saint]

It's kicking off all over Europe. Civil unrest in numerous countries as new restrictions are introduced.

[Weston Super Saint]

  On 22/11/2021 at 06:55, SalmonSi said:

So, are we going to do the same for smokers, heavy drinkers, those who speed? Let's be honest, all of them take up space in NHS due to their own idiocy? I wonder how many of them are rich, have great jobs etc? Or it is only those who refuse an injection? Are you going to be a hypocrite like many others on here, or are you going to agree it has to be the same for anyone irresonsibly putting their own health at risk? 

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Sounds good.