Sam Wallace latest Saints Telegraph article

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[Convict Colony]

Not signing up, any relevant notes ?

[Micky]

It's  a subscription service, what does it say? 

[SuperSAINT]

A slump in form is one thing, but Southampton losing Ralph Hasenhuttl would be a true disaster

SAM WALLACE FEBRUARY 24, 2021

Ralph Hasenhuttl, the Southampton manager, has a release clause in his contract which is different in value according to the club that might seek to poach him, reaching as high as £20 million should it be one of the Premier League’s biggest names.

It was agreed when Hasenhuttl signed his recent deal last June, although many feel that the politics of managing a big club would not suit the Austrian. He runs the football side at Southampton with complete authority and is one of a small group of key figures at the club. Alongside chief executive Martin Semmens, Hasenhuttl enjoys the kind of pre-eminence that is rare among his Premier League managerial peers higher up the table.

It has been a remarkable ride since he arrived in Dec 2018. From last season’s resurgence to finish 11th, in November they went top of the league for the first time in 32 years of the club’s history. Hasenhuttl wept in the technical areawhen Southampton beat Liverpool on Jan 4. Since then they have drawn one and lost seven in the league, the most recent defeat to Leeds United on Tuesday night.
 

Yet there is a different dynamic at play to what would be the more conventional gathering of pressure on an embattled manager. The club have placed Hasenhuttl at the centre of their future, backing him unreservedly after the 9-0 defeat to Leicester City in Oct 2019 and generally he has repaid that. The question being asked now is not whether he will have to go but whether they can give Hasenhuttl the resources to keep him long enough to find a new owner who will nourish the club.

In the meantime what is it that Hasenhuttl presides over? For a period, Southampton were the greatest trading club in the Premier League with young players and shrewd signings sold on for huge fees. They defined the art of renewal in their early years back in the Premier League under Mauricio Pochettino and Ronald Koeman, but now they are locked in a much more difficult battle for survival. Their faith in the manager is total, but the sale of the club hangs over everything and the crash in league form since the first game of the new year has been spectacular.
 

The club have an absentee ownership in China, the businessman Gao Jisheng, who is eager to sell. The day-to-day running is left to the executive team who have the power to make major decisions and also face down the owners if they feel it necessary. Gao is reliant upon the likes of Semmens and managing director Toby Steele, as well as Hasenhuttl, to run the club, and keep them in the league. That gives them leverage over the Chinese owners insisting on player sales or blocking acquisitions.

Now 14th, the team’s form, FA Cup run aside, has been alarming even if 30 points should be the basis for safety. The performances have not been uniformly dire over this slump but the players, unsurprisingly, lack confidence. The squad is thin in places, with just two senior full-backs of which one – Kyle Walker-Peters - is injured. The January window yielded the exciting loan signing of Takumi Minamino from Liverpool but no defensive back-up. If the injury to midfielder Oriol Romeu on Tuesday is serious then that will add another concern.

The demands of Hasenhuttl’s system, a narrow 4-2-2-2 formation which requires the players to run hard and press hard exacts a high physical price on a relatively small squad. The two 9-0 defeats to Leicester and then Manchester United 14 months apart have shown the side’s volatility. The squad is being pushed to its limits.

Under the Covid-19 fan lockout Southampton are losing around £3 million to £5 million a month and have agreed a £75 million loan facility with MSD Holdings, currently the financier of choice in the Premier League. It allows them to cope with an extremely difficult situation and try to invest in players to move forward. The loan has a five-year repayment cycle which the club hope will give them time to find the right new owner - no easy task.

There have been around five interested parties, some more publicity-hungry than others including those who are suspected of attempting to agree a deal in order that they can then attract backers. The club are also wary of heavily leveraged buy-outs. Katharina Liebherr, daughter of the late former owner Markus, retains 20 per cent of Southampton which is another bulwark against Gao forcing a sale through.

Southampton are valued at around £230 million to interested bidders – more than Crystal Palace, less than West Ham. The club comes with the benefit of owning St Mary’s stadium and the Staplewood training ground and all the usual jeopardy of keeping a club of that status in the Premier League.

Come the summer Southampton, like many clubs of their size, believe a strong free agent market will work to their benefit. Top goalscorer Danny Ings is holding off signing a new deal and with one year left on his contract this summer his ambition is a Champions League club. Ryan Bertrand’s contract expires in the summer. He is the club’s only senior specialist left-back.

It comes back again to the club retaining what it considers to be its greatest asset - the manager - who is now overseeing his third Premier League survival season. Can Southampton keep Hasenhuttl happy for long enough for them to find the owners that will allow the club to move forward? The release clause is a deterrent against his departure although it would most likely be right to say that in the wider football world his stock fluctuates with his team’s fortunes.

“A disaster” was how Hasenhuttl described the second half against Leeds, although for Southampton a disaster would constitute their manager leaving. Covid-19 has changed many of the old rules in football but never more so than at Southampton – a club in a slump trying to keep their manager, not jettison him.

 

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, Micky said:

It's  a subscription service, what does it say? 

Ralph Hasenhuttl, the Southampton manager, has a release clause in his contract which is different in value according to the club that might seek to poach him, reaching as high as £20 million should it be one of the Premier League’s biggest names.

It was agreed when Hasenhuttl signed his recent deal last June, although many feel that the politics of managing a big club would not suit the Austrian. He runs the football side at Southampton with complete authority and is one of a small group of key figures at the club. Alongside chief executive Martin Semmens, Hasenhuttl enjoys the kind of pre-eminence that is rare among his Premier League managerial peers higher up the table.

It has been a remarkable ride since he arrived in Dec 2018. From last season’s resurgence to finish 11th, in November they went top of the league for the first time in 32 years of the club’s history. Hasenhuttl wept in the technical area when Southampton beat Liverpool on Jan 4. Since then they have drawn one and lost seven in the league, the most recent defeat to Leeds United on Tuesday night.  

Yet there is a different dynamic at play to what would be the more conventional gathering of pressure on an embattled manager. The club have placed Hasenhuttl at the centre of their future, backing him unreservedly after the 9-0 defeat to Leicester City in Oct 2019 and generally he has repaid that. The question being asked now is not whether he will have to go but whether they can give Hasenhuttl the resources to keep him long enough to find a new owner who will nourish the club.

In the meantime what is it that Hasenhuttl presides over? For a period, Southampton were the greatest trading club in the Premier League with young players and shrewd signings sold on for huge fees. They defined the art of renewal in their early years back in the Premier League under Mauricio Pochettino and Ronald Koeman, but now they are locked in a much more difficult battle for survival. Their faith in the manager is total, but the sale of the club hangs over everything and the crash in league form since the first game of the new year has been spectacular.

Such is their current form, the Saints are not really marching anywhere CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES

The club have an absentee ownership in China, the businessman Gao Jisheng, who is eager to sell. The day-to-day running is left to the executive team who have the power to make major decisions and also face down the owners if they feel it necessary. Gao is reliant upon the likes of Semmens and managing director Toby Steele, as well as Hasenhuttl, to run the club, and keep them in the league. That gives them leverage over the Chinese owners insisting on player sales or blocking acquisitions.

Now 14th, the team’s form, FA Cup run aside, has been alarming even if 30 points should be the basis for safety. The performances have not been uniformly dire over this slump but the players, unsurprisingly, lack confidence. The squad is thin in places, with just two senior full-backs of which one – Kyle Walker-Peters - is injured. The January window yielded the exciting loan signing of Takumi Minamino from Liverpool but no defensive back-up. If the injury to midfielder Oriol Romeu on Tuesday is serious then that will add another concern.

The demands of Hasenhuttl’s system, a narrow 4-2-2-2 formation which requires the players to run hard and press hard exacts a high physical price on a relatively small squad. The two 9-0 defeats to Leicester and then Manchester United 14 months apart have shown the side’s volatility. The squad is being pushed to its limits.

Under the Covid-19 fan lockout Southampton are losing around £3 million to £5 million a month and have agreed a £75 million loan facility with MSD Holdings, currently the financier of choice in the Premier League. It allows them to cope with an extremely difficult situation and try to invest in players to move forward. The loan has a five-year repayment cycle which the club hope will give them time to find the right new owner - no easy task.

There have been around five interested parties, some more publicity-hungry than others including those who are suspected of attempting to agree a deal in order that they can then attract backers. The club are also wary of heavily leveraged buy-outs. Katharina Liebherr, daughter of the late former owner Markus, retains 20 per cent of Southampton which is another bulwark against Gao forcing a sale through.

Southampton are valued at around £230 million to interested bidders – more than Crystal Palace, less than West Ham. The club comes with the benefit of owning St Mary’s stadium and the Staplewood training ground and all the usual jeopardy of keeping a club of that status in the Premier League.

Come the summer Southampton, like many clubs of their size, believe a strong free agent market will work to their benefit. Top goalscorer Danny Ings is holding off signing a new deal and with one year left on his contract this summer his ambition is a Champions League club. Ryan Bertrand’s contract expires in the summer. He is the club’s only senior specialist left-back.

It comes back again to the club retaining what it considers to be its greatest asset - the manager -  who is now overseeing his third Premier League survival season. Can Southampton keep Hasenhuttl happy for long enough for them to find the owners that will allow the club to move forward? The release clause is a deterrent against his departure although it would most likely be right to say that in the wider football world his stock fluctuates with his team’s fortunes.

“A disaster” was how Hasenhuttl described the second half against Leeds, although for Southampton a disaster would constitute their manager leaving. Covid-19 has changed many of the old rules in football but never more so than at Southampton – a club in a slump trying to keep their manager, not jettison him.  

 

[Saint_clark]

With all the talk of him being sacked I did think that we only recently completely revamped the entire academy, reserve and first team coaching set up to have all coaches and players working towards the same style of play which would need throwing out if someone else came in.

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

With all the talk of him being sacked I did think that we only recently completely revamped the entire academy, reserve and first team coaching set up to have all coaches and players working towards the same style of play which would need throwing out if someone else came in.

Not if any future replacement has a similar philosophy. 

[Dusic]

Interesting article and its a fair summary that Ralph is the most key component we have.

Of course he is not perfect, but its accurate that on this bad run there are big factors - notably squad depth - that are not within his control.

I am 100% sure that without Ralph we would be worse off than with him.

Equally, I think if we can get through the Gao tenure and still be a PL club then that is quite fortunate given he had added absolutely nothing. I think the appointment of Ralph is probably the second biggest reason we have not been relegated so far, second only to Swansea's implosion. Gao has been very, very lucky IMO.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by Dusic

[stevy777_x]

Just now, Dusic said:

Interesting article and its a fair summary that Ralph is the most key component we have.

Of course he is not perfect, but its accurate that on this bad run there are big factors - notably squad depth - that are not within his control.

I am 100% sure that without Ralph we would be worse off than with him.

Equally, I think if we can get through the Gao tenure and still be a PL club then that is quite fortunate given he had added absolutely nothing. I think the appointment of Ralph is probably the second biggest reason we have not been relegated so far, second only to Swansea's implosion. Gao has been very, very lucky IMO.

Agree 100%

[austsaint]

22 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Interesting article and its a fair summary that Ralph is the most key component we have.

Of course he is not perfect, but its accurate that on this bad run there are big factors - notably squad depth - that are not within his control.

I am 100% sure that without Ralph we would be worse off than with him.

Equally, I think if we can get through the Gao tenure and still be a PL club then that is quite fortunate given he had added absolutely nothing. I think the appointment of Ralph is probably the second biggest reason we have not been relegated so far, second only to Swansea's implosion. Gao has been very, very lucky IMO.

Beautifully articulated; well done.   The Club desperately needs new ownership, not a Manager sacking.

[Micky]

Thanks to those who posted the article.  Very interesting, if accurate, it would appear that Ralph has the unequivocal backing of the club and will not be sacked no matter what.  I have no problem with that, as it takes away any distraction to the players.  They therefore have to understand that it's upto them to start performing and get us out of this.  My only problem with this is that, historically, players appear to be quite blasé about relegation and only seem to react to the situation when we are knee deep in shit and it's to late.  I hope that behind the scenes the severity of our predicament is being drummed home. 

Hopefully the clubs stance takes the pressure off of Ralph leaving him to plan a way out of this.  But we need to turn the corner sooner rather than later.

[DT]

Interesting piece. Also that it is his playing style which has put a lot of pressure on a thin squad. New owners can't come quick enough. Just need to get over the line this season...

[Noodles34]

I don't understand this assumption that we have players that are bad enough that we are 'lucky' not to have been relegated. 

When you look at other similar clubs in the EPL, Burnley, West Ham, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle etc. we don't have worse players than those. All clubs outside of City, Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea are treading a fine line in this league. Clearly the likes of Leicester and Everton, and arguably Wolves are one step ahead of the rest with decent support from owners. The rest of us go by the grace of God and we hope the promoted teams come up and go straight back down. 

I don't blame the manager as a whole, but his day to day decisions leave me baffled and when we shipped out Vokins and Vallery that would have DEFINITELY been approved by him, they are not high earners and i doubt the players were insisting on it. Why would he have done that?

I don't even blame the owner as a whole either, yeah, he's no good for us long term but he's hardly restricted much. We have still bought big money players like Ings and Taki's wages won't be cheap and he will want us in the top league to sell, it is not in his interests to provide no backing at all and get relegated. 

Basically, we are going through a shit run, really bad, one of the worst i can remember and the manager (and the players) has to take the can for that. We have probably done enough to see the season out and if i was running the gaff, i would see the season out with RH whilst keeping my eyes open for a 'possible' replacement in the summer if we finish on 35/36 points. 

Edited 25 February, 2021 by Noodles34

[S-Clarke]

23 minutes ago, Micky said:

Thanks to those who posted the article.  Very interesting, if accurate, it would appear that Ralph has the unequivocal backing of the club and will not be sacked no matter what.  I have no problem with that, as it takes away any distraction to the players.  They therefore have to understand that it's upto them to start performing and get us out of this.  My only problem with this is that, historically, players appear to be quite blasé about relegation and only seem to react to the situation when we are knee deep in shit and it's to late.  I hope that behind the scenes the severity of our predicament is being drummed home. 

Hopefully the clubs stance takes the pressure off of Ralph leaving him to plan a way out of this.  But we need to turn the corner sooner rather than later.

I feel Ralph knows he's got the backing, the only worry we have is if he feels he's had enough and just walks. That's very possible, especially if the on-going lack of investment and lack of flexibility continues.

Look at the note in that article about focusing on the free transfer market. That says it all doesn't it. He's not going to want to work with that, surely? What a true waste of his talents. That's the most frustrating thing for me, he hasn't ever been afforded the opportunity to build his own squad here.

For what it's worth I have no blame on the board - Martin and Toby etc are fine, they've worked wonders for me and are having to re-invent the wheel every time we want to make an addition. The problem is the absent/non-existent ownership by someone who for me isn't part of this club, he unfortunately just holds the purse strings and has closed the door to finances. Basically, whilst he is here, we are teetering on the brink and I hope we get him shifted sooner rather than later before Ralph, Martin etc get pissed off and leave, because then it would all come crumbling down incredibly quickly - and it wouldn't be long until we're sat back where we started before Markus.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I feel Ralph knows he's got the backing, the only worry we have is if he feels he's had enough and just walks. That's very possible, especially if the on-going lack of investment and lack of flexibility continues.

If he walks, he walks away from a multi million pound contract and ends up where?

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

If he walks, he walks away from a multi million pound contract and ends up where?

A club would snap him up before long. I think most football people recognise his talents.

It really depends on if he fancies more pre-seasons working with Martin to try and re-invent ways to improve the squad, who can we let go first etc. It must be very tiring. 

[Dusic]

14 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

I don't understand this assumption that we have players that are bad enough that we are 'lucky' not to have been relegated. 

When you look at other similar clubs in the EPL, Burnley, West Ham, Palace, Brighton, Newcastle etc. we don't have worse players than those. All clubs outside of City, Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea are treading a fine line in this league. Clearly the likes of Leicester and Everton, and arguably Wolves are one step ahead of the rest with decent support from owners. The rest of us go by the grace of God and we hope the promoted teams come up and go straight back down. 

I don't blame the manager as a whole, but his day to day decisions leave me baffled and when we shipped out Vokins and Vallery that would have DEFINITELY been approved by him, they are not high earners and i doubt the players were insisting on it. Why would he have done that?

I don't even blame the owner as a whole either, yeah, he's no good for us long term but he's hardly restricted much. We have still bought big money players like Ings and Taki's wages won't be cheap and he will want us in the top league to sell, it is not in his interests to provide no backing at all and get relegated. 

Basically, we are going through a shit run, really bad, one of the worst i can remember and the manager (and the players) has to take the can for that. We have probably done enough to see the season out and if i was running the gaff, i would see the season out with RH whilst keeping my eyes open for a 'possible' replacement in the summer if we finish on 35/36 points. 

I personally think this is a bad take.

We were massively lucky not to get relegated in the Pellegrino/Hughes season - extremely fortunate that Swansea imploded.

We then stayed up in Ralphs's first half season because he managed to change the whole atmosphere around the club and got Redmond playing well.

Since then, despite very modest investment, we havent really been close to relegation - and likely won't be this season. IMO mostly down to how Ralph had the team playing (until recently) and the improvement he got from Ings.

But I don't see how anyone can really expect much more from a squad that has one LB, one RB and three senior CMs.

Re Valery and Vokins - Ralph sees them every day and obviously decided that they aren't up to PL level, as proven by being benched in the Championship and L1. We needed to replace those players absolutely - but is that his fault that we didn't?

What more would 'a replacement' have done than what Ralph has? I think overall he has done a good job, with clearly financial limitations that many other clubs don't seem to have. Have you seen how much Tony Bloom has invested in Brighton? Newcastle and WH have both spent £40m on players (badly, but thats their fault).

We need new Ownership, not a new Manager.

[CB Fry]

32 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

If he walks, he walks away from a multi million pound contract and ends up where?

At another club. If he walks away (as he has a history of) then he'd get a decent job elsewhere.

Puel got a second chance in the Premier League so I see no problems for Ralph on that front.

Why do you think he wouldn’t get another decent job?

[Matthew Le God]

29 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

At another club. If he walks away (as he has a history of) then he'd get a decent job elsewhere.

Puel got a second chance in the Premier League so I see no problems for Ralph on that front.

Why do you think he wouldn’t get another decent job?

I think he is capable of one day getting a top job. But they won't go for him yet until he does better at a club like us. Any other move he gets at the moment would be sideways at best so no point resigning and giving up a big contract.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

A club would snap him up before long. I think most football people recognise his talents.

It really depends on if he fancies more pre-seasons working with Martin to try and re-invent ways to improve the squad, who can we let go first etc. It must be very tiring. 

See my reply to CB Fry above.

[CB Fry]

25 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

I think he is capable of one day getting a top job. But they won't go for him yet until he does better at a club like us. Any other move he gets at the moment would be sideways at best so no point resigning and giving up a big contract.

Who said anything about a top job?

He can get a big contract at, say, Newcastle or Wolves or Palace or whatever.

Yes sure you can say "well thats not a step up from Saints etc etc" but so what. "Multi-million pound" contract, decent jobs would be available and he's done enough to get a job like that no bother.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by CB Fry

[VectisSaint]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

 

Of course he is not perfect, but its accurate that on this bad run there are big factors - notably squad depth - that are not within his control.

 

I am firmly in the "not sacking" Ralph camp, but the one thing that I think he is to blame for, at least partly is the squad size and depth. He was very public in his desire to work with a much smaller squad, hindsight though being a wonderful thing he did not take into account this last crazy year, with far more intense schedule due to Covid, lack of facilities for recovery etc. This desire for a small squad has come back to bite him (us) very badly, I don't think this factor can be wholly blamed on others, although of course the club management were instrumental in downsizing. I also don't believe that Valery and Vokins would have left if Ralph had not sanctioned, even encouraged it. 

[Trout-Tickler]

21 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

I am firmly in the "not sacking" Ralph camp, but the one thing that I think he is to blame for, at least partly is the squad size and depth. He was very public in his desire to work with a much smaller squad, hindsight though being a wonderful thing he did not take into account this last crazy year, with far more intense schedule due to Covid, lack of facilities for recovery etc. This desire for a small squad has come back to bite him (us) very badly, I don't think this factor can be wholly blamed on others, although of course the club management were instrumental in downsizing. I also don't believe that Valery and Vokins would have left if Ralph had not sanctioned, even encouraged it. 

I have no problem per se with a small squad but you have to have little or no drop off in quality in each position for it to work. Our problem is the drop-off in quality between the starting XI and backup players. The fact that we were interested in loaning Brandon Williams at the start of the season suggests we knew our reserve fullbacks weren't up to it but we had already blown our budget on other positions.

 

[Trout-Tickler]

8 hours ago, Dusic said:

I personally think this is a bad take.

We were massively lucky not to get relegated in the Pellegrino/Hughes season - extremely fortunate that Swansea imploded.

We then stayed up in Ralphs's first half season because he managed to change the whole atmosphere around the club and got Redmond playing well.

Since then, despite very modest investment, we havent really been close to relegation - and likely won't be this season. IMO mostly down to how Ralph had the team playing (until recently) and the improvement he got from Ings.

But I don't see how anyone can really expect much more from a squad that has one LB, one RB and three senior CMs.

Re Valery and Vokins - Ralph sees them every day and obviously decided that they aren't up to PL level, as proven by being benched in the Championship and L1. We needed to replace those players absolutely - but is that his fault that we didn't?

What more would 'a replacement' have done than what Ralph has? I think overall he has done a good job, with clearly financial limitations that many other clubs don't seem to have. Have you seen how much Tony Bloom has invested in Brighton? Newcastle and WH have both spent £40m on players (badly, but thats their fault).

We need new Ownership, not a new Manager.

TBH I actually think that's a very flattering description of the complete lack of backing Ralph's had in the transfer market. He's been allowed to make 5 permanent signings since he's been here, one of whom has only recently kicked a ball. For me, the investment he's received hasn't even been enough to stand still in this league and let's face it it's not going to get better any time soon. The managers own admission that we can't really afford players who'll come in and make a difference from day 1 tells us what market we're operating in.

 

Edited 25 February, 2021 by Trout-Tickler

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

I personally think this is a bad take.

We were massively lucky not to get relegated in the Pellegrino/Hughes season - extremely fortunate that Swansea imploded.

We then stayed up in Ralphs's first half season because he managed to change the whole atmosphere around the club and got Redmond playing well.

Since then, despite very modest investment, we havent really been close to relegation - and likely won't be this season. IMO mostly down to how Ralph had the team playing (until recently) and the improvement he got from Ings.

But I don't see how anyone can really expect much more from a squad that has one LB, one RB and three senior CMs.

Re Valery and Vokins - Ralph sees them every day and obviously decided that they aren't up to PL level, as proven by being benched in the Championship and L1. We needed to replace those players absolutely - but is that his fault that we didn't?

What more would 'a replacement' have done than what Ralph has? I think overall he has done a good job, with clearly financial limitations that many other clubs don't seem to have. Have you seen how much Tony Bloom has invested in Brighton? Newcastle and WH have both spent £40m on players (badly, but thats their fault).

We need new Ownership, not a new Manager.

West Ham seem to be in a strong position for a club that has spent badly.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

I think he is capable of one day getting a top job. But they won't go for him yet until he does better at a club like us. Any other move he gets at the moment would be sideways at best so no point resigning and giving up a big contract.

So you agree if he leaves us he will get a job at another club then. Well done.

[Mystic Force]

Right now is showing where our academy has gone wrong, there are very few prospects coming through of a caliber necessary to succeed. In lean times for all, this could have been our advantage, but we squandered that a few years back. I do not know what they did but, if we had some decent up and comers to turn to this injury patch would not have become a crisis.

If I was to fault RH, it might be on playing a style that has exacerbated the injury problem. Maybe we went too hard to quick, got an advantage early on and we are paying the price now. But that is beyond my pay grade to understand.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by Mystic Force

[Wade Garrett]

We seem to attract tyre-kickers like turds attract flies.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I really don’t get the kissing of his ring piece by a large section of our fan base, and the press. Par for us is about 10-14 in the league and, given ok draws,  a decent cup run in one of the cups. Last season we finished 11th, had 2 horrific cup draws. We also had an embarrassing 9-0 home defeat, but measured against that, he did oversee stuffing the skates. Overall I’d say a par season, nothing more nothing less. The fact the back end of it was so good, boded well for this one. 
 

Where are we now though. Lose to Boscombe and we’d have been dumped out of both cups by lower league clubs, one of whom has nearly as bad form as us going into the game, and have again suffered a humiliating 9 stuffing, have failed to beat 9 men, gave Spurs 5 goals with tactics from the Under 11’s, and suffered countless other embarrassing performances. If we limp over the line questions must surely be asked. 
 

Personally, I’m on the fence. The cup game will make or break it for me. It’s a winnable game, that game defines his future for me. Lose it and what have we got. A couple of decent wins, spells of good football. But ultimately, the bloke would have given us 2 bang average seasons. 

[Matthew Le God]

45 minutes ago, Turkish said:

So you agree if he leaves us he will get a job at another club then. Well done.

Yet again, you think I've said something I didn't say and taken it off on a tangent. 

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

If he walks, he walks away from a multi million pound contract and ends up where?

 

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Yet again, you think I've said something I didn't say and taken it off on a tangent. 

Err, no i haven't.

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, Turkish said:

 

Err, no i haven't.

Yes you have. Is English not your first language as you constantly have comprehension issues?

That post you quoted doesn't say what you claim it does, it does not support your point. 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Yes you have. Is English not your first language as you constantly have comprehension issues?

That post you quoted doesn't say what you claim it does, it does not support your point. 

MLG asked “If he walks he walks away from a multi million pound contract and end up where?” 
 

everyone answered “at another club”

MLG starts banging on about him getting job at a top club because yet again he’s proven to be 

 

[SaintsLoyal]

Just need another gao article from the shit stirring 'athletic' and bobs yer uncle. 

[saintrich]

The article mentions a strong free agent market, but I can't see many players worth pursuing?

Omar Richards LB from Reading looks the stand out choice, was weirdly linked with Bayern Munich recently, but would surely want first team football. Would be a good Bertrand replacement.

[LuckyNumber7]

2 hours ago, Trout-Tickler said:

TBH I actually think that's a very flattering description of the backing Ralph's had in the transfer market. He's been allowed to make 5 permanent signings since he's been here, one of whom has only recently kicked a ball. For me, the investment he's received hasn't been enough just to stand still in this league and let's face it it's not going to get better any time soon. The managers own admission that we can't really afford players who'll come in and make a difference from day 1 tells us what market we're operating in.

 

Yes, five permanent signings in five transfer windows since he arrived is pathetic really. With a squad that is in desperate need of freshening up, If we keep that up there is only one direction we are headed, with Ralph or without.

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Personally, I’m on the fence. The cup game will make or break it for me. It’s a winnable game, that game defines his future for me. Lose it and what have we got. A couple of decent wins, spells of good football. But ultimately, the bloke would have given us 2 bang average seasons. 

It's a fair point but I really don't know who realistically would be doing better with the restraints that Ralph is working under.  I suspect if he goes we will soon be crying out for 'bang average'.

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

MLG asked “If he walks he walks away from a multi million pound contract and end up where?” 
 

everyone answered “at another club”

MLG starts banging on about him getting job at a top club because yet again he’s proven to be 

 

You claimed my post said...

"So you agree if he leaves us he will get a job at another club then. Well done."

When it didn't. This is basic stuff Turkish. 🙄

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

You claimed my post said...

"So you agree if he leaves us he will get a job at another club then. Well done."

When it didn't. This is basic stuff Turkish. 🙄

so you dont think he'll get another job if he leaves us?

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Turkish said:

so you dont think he'll get another job if he leaves us?

This stems from your understanding of evidence from the lounge thread. I did not say he wouldn't get another job, I did not say he would get another job. Yet again your comprehension is letting you down. 🙄

[Turkish]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

This stems from your understanding of evidence from the lounge thread. I did not say he wouldn't get another job, I did not say he would get another job. Yet again your comprehension is letting you down. 🙄

you could always just answer a very simple question, rather than making yourself look ever increasingly ridiculous. If Ralph were to walk away from Southampton and his multi million pound contract today, do you think he would ever get another job in football? Yes or no will do.

[Matthew Le God]

Just now, Turkish said:

you could always just answer a very simple question, rather than making yourself look ever increasingly ridiculous. If Ralph were to walk away from Southampton and his multi million pound contract today, do you think he would ever get another job in football? Yes or no will do.

Yes he would. But what you managed to do was miscomprehend my post and claim it said something it didn't. It also overlooks and ignores the point I was actually making that at present Hasenhuttl is unlikely to get a better job than Saints so there is little need for him to resign. He is better off sticking with us on his big contract and seeing if he can improve us to the point where a bigger club wants him. He has not achieved enough with us yet for a bigger club to want him. I think if he stays he may do eventually attract bigger clubs.

[Turkish]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Yes he would. But what you managed to do was miscomprehend my post and claim it said something it didn't. It also overlooks and ignores the point I was actually making that at present Hasenhuttl is unlikely to get a better job than Saints so there is little need for him to resign. He is better off sticking with us on his big contract and seeing if he can improve us to the point where a bigger club wants him. He has not achieved enough with us yet for a bigger club to want him. I think if he stays he may do eventually attract bigger clubs.

Great, so we agree then! Well done you. The rest of your post is irrelevant as your initial point was

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

If he walks, he walks away from a multi million pound contract and ends up where?

the answer to that point is another job somewhere else, something we all agree he'd get.  Congratulations on arguing the toss over something you actually agree with. Even by your standards that's an extreme level of idiocy. 

[Trout-Tickler]

52 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Yes he would. But what you managed to do was miscomprehend my post and claim it said something it didn't. It also overlooks and ignores the point I was actually making that at present Hasenhuttl is unlikely to get a better job than Saints so there is little need for him to resign. He is better off sticking with us on his big contract and seeing if he can improve us to the point where a bigger club wants him. He has not achieved enough with us yet for a bigger club to want him. I think if he stays he may do eventually attract bigger clubs.

Out of interest, how do you define 'better job'?

[Streaky]

5 hours ago, Trout-Tickler said:

TBH I actually think that's a very flattering description of the backing Ralph's had in the transfer market. He's been allowed to make 5 permanent signings since he's been here, one of whom has only recently kicked a ball. For me, the investment he's received hasn't been enough just to stand still in this league and let's face it it's not going to get better any time soon. The managers own admission that we can't really afford players who'll come in and make a difference from day 1 tells us what market we're operating in.

 

Exactly dont understand people saying ralph hasn't been backed in the transfer market. For a club of our size he has been backed well.

For me we should be finishing in the top half this season with the size of our wage bill. Anything else would be a dissapointing season.

[Charlie Wayman]

Ralph knew the situation he was letting himself in for when he signed his new contract. If something better had been on offer at the time do you think he would be here now? It must have dawned on him that this was probably the best he could hope to do in the Premier League at this stage of his career. He must have believed also that he could extract far more from this group of players than a superficial review of their talents would have revealed at the time. Whether that was arrogance or genuine insight remains to be determined.

To some extent he has made progress with Romeu, JWP and Vestegaard improved beyond measure and if indeed he has had a major input into signings, the arrivals of Walker-Peters, Diallo and Salisu also signal some notable successes. If you factor in that senior players like Armstrong, Bertrand and Ings have blossomed in patches as well, irrespective of who else makes up the starting XI that cadre of nine players surely are as good as most squads in the PL as they have demonstrated at the end of last season and in the first half of this and Ralph can claim to have had a lot to do with this. 

Where then has it all gone wrong? That is why I point the finger at the coaches and Ralph in particular and his stubborn refusal to change methods. One could easily suggest that this group of players is far better than he can get them playing because of the inherent limitations of his methods, too much attention on physical fitness, sprint times and winning back the ball and too little focus on skill, vision and creativity.

As I have said in other threads something has to change and change quickly;  as we are not in the happy position of making wholesale changes to the playing staff, the spotlight must inevitably fall on Ralph. If Ralph has no other way of playing than his 4-2-2-2 headless chicken scramble or has no intention of altering his method than he ought to go. Sooner or later the players will feel that they deserve better and will either seek the exit door or more simply will stop playing for him.

Edited 25 February, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Suhari]

1 minute ago, Streaky said:

Exactly dont understand people saying ralph hasn't been backed in the transfer market. For a club of our size he has been backed well.

For me we should be finishing in the top half this season with the size of our wage bill. Anything else would be a dissapointing season.

Are you including Forster, Valery, Hoedt, Gunn, Long and Moi in 'size of our wage bill'?

[S-Clarke]

6 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

See my reply to CB Fry above.

Didn't mention top clubs, any club really.

If he gets pissed off then he won't be out of a job before long. Maybe he could build his reputation at a club which allows him the ability to grow as a manager, as all we are doing is stagnating him.

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Exactly dont understand people saying ralph hasn't been backed in the transfer market. For a club of our size he has been backed well.

For me we should be finishing in the top half this season with the size of our wage bill. Anything else would be a dissapointing season.

He has signed 5 permanent players in the 3 years he's been here, about £40ishm over 3 years.

3 of those were this season. And anyone we have signed has been a very creative arrival by having to raise the funds by working out who to sell/move on first, hence why we are now in the situation we are in with our squad size.

Where we are in the table is a fair reflection of our squad, 11th was the top end of our capabilities. That's not disputing that we have a 'decent' core which 'could' challenge for the top half if they were all fit and healthy, but the reality is that over a season you need a squad as it's not sustainable overwise. And we don't have a squad, nor has he been able to build one.

So, no, he certainly hasn't been backed. Not at all.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, LuckyNumber7 said:

It's a fair point but I really don't know who realistically would be doing better with the restraints that Ralph is working under.  I suspect if he goes we will soon be crying out for 'bang average'.

What restraints has he got that the previous 3 managers didn’t have? 
 

 

[Billy the Kidd]

 

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Great, so we agree then! Well done you. The rest of your post is irrelevant as your initial point was

 

the answer to that point is another job somewhere else, something we all agree he'd get.  Congratulations on arguing the toss over something you actually agree with. Even by your standards that's an extreme level of idiocy. 

 

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Yes he would. But what you managed to do was miscomprehend my post and claim it said something it didn't. It also overlooks and ignores the point I was actually making that at present Hasenhuttl is unlikely to get a better job than Saints so there is little need for him to resign. He is better off sticking with us on his big contract and seeing if he can improve us to the point where a bigger club wants him. He has not achieved enough with us yet for a bigger club to want him. I think if he stays he may do eventually attract bigger clubs.

You know what, you both have some good things to say, which can be great to read insights of, but as a relative new comer to this forum, this really gets fucking boring, really quickly.

If you cant get along, isn’t there an ignore button on here.

I come on here to discuss and learn stuff, not to hear you guys bitching about who’s got the nicest set of titties.