Nothing Wrong with a Bit of Route One

[Teddeer]

I'll probably get shot down but I don't think we are direct enough at times. I'm not advocating that we continually lump the ball forward but surely the long ball still has a place in football particularly if played accurately to forwards making good runs. Apart from anything else it might surprise the opposition and give them something else to think about. The possession football where we try to advance but are happy to play the ball back to maybe reset and change the angle is great, I don't have an issue with it. However, without mixing things up a bit, we just become too predictable and easy to defend against. In Vestergaard we have one of the best long ball passers in the game and others can try their luck too but we aren't using this option. We often concede to long balls into the heart of our defence but seem very reluctant to return the favour. Variety can be the spice of life - let's have a bit of it.

[Whitey Grandad]

There's a time and a place for it but it needs forwards who are alive to it and making the runs. Our problems all stem from not scoring enough goals (doh)

[SaveloyMush]

Lumping it forward needs lumps as forwards to win the ball.

Maybe Vestergaard could lump it up front, run really, really fast and win the ball in the opposition's box?

More seriously, I do think that, during the dying embers of a losing game, going route one is infinitely preferable to tippy-tappy-toe in the 94th minute.

[Toussaint]

You normally need a traditional centre forward for this to be effective, I’m a bit of a dinosaur and miss my man-crush Grazziano, we’ve had no one like that since. I think Ings alongside a big no 9 could cause havoc. In short wouldn’t be averse to it but we don’t have the personnel. 

Edited 24 February, 2021 by Toussaint

[S-Clarke]

Who do we target? We have no players of that make up, which is a bit odd really - as quite a lot of squads have at least a single target man they can call on if required, but we've totally deserted that approach.

So, it wouldn't work. We'd be flying long balls up to Redmond. He can't control a ball on the deck, so he will be even more ineffective in that sort of game. Ings isn't any cop at that sort of game either.

Closest we have probably got is Nlundulu, but he's way too raw and inexperienced.

There is a valid argument for all squads having a traditional target man centre forward, not always a starter, but at least to call on. Then you get the likes of Redmond, Minamino, Ings, Moussa all making runs off of him if required. I guess that's as close to a 'plan b' but it's bordering on the ''get it up'' ''get it in the box' tactic that is very dinosour-esque.

[Kingsland Codger]

36 minutes ago, SaveloyMush said:

More seriously, I do think that, during the dying embers of a losing game, going route one is infinitely preferable to tippy-tappy-toe in the 94th minute.

Agree, especially when the tippy-tippy has barely produced a shot at goal in those previous 93 minutes.

[Teddeer]

Leeds didn't have a big lump up front but still managed to play some long balls to run onto and cause panic in our defence leading to goals and chances. I'm not advocating a Pele style centre forward to hold the ball up but rather balls played into space through the middle or on the flanks to get us up the pitch quicker as an alternative to our current one trick approach which is becoming far too predictable. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Too much fannying around out wide.What’s wrong with getting past or level with the full back and whipping it in. The problem is modern wingers play on the “wrong” wing so their natural movement is back inside. It’s ok if you’re Mahrez where you pick a beautiful weighted pass, or knock it square to KDB to do so, but when you’re fucking Nathan Redmond, cutting in to square it to Prowse  or OR, who again pass it square, it’s becomes so predictable. Nothing wrong with getting in the mixer from wide angles, especially with Che Adams being a big physical lad and Ings sharp to pick up any bits. Knocking long straight balls isn’t great, we’re not Burnley. But we could get it into the box a bit quicker than we do. 

[Toussaint]

13 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Leeds didn't have a big lump up front but still managed to play some long balls to run onto and cause panic in our defence leading to goals and chances. I'm not advocating a Pele style centre forward to hold the ball up but rather balls played into space through the middle or on the flanks to get us up the pitch quicker as an alternative to our current one trick approach which is becoming far too predictable. 

They don’t have big lumps, but they do have a lot of bigger far more athletic types, we’ve been physically small and lightweight for a long time. That’s one reason we struggled against teams like that, West Ham, Palace, Burnley... they just bully us. Against Chelsea I watched Redmond lose every foot race, and when he did get there he just bounced off the defender. We have no one who could win a race to a ball knocked through or down the channels, even if they did they’d struggle to hold it up while the plodders joined from midfield. We just need a big reset.

[S-Clarke]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

They don’t have big lumps, but they do have a lot of bigger far more athletic types, we’ve been physically small and lightweight for a long time. That’s one reason we struggled against teams like that, West Ham, Palace, Burnley... they just bully us. Against Chelsea I watched Redmond lose every foot race, and when he did get there he just bounced off the defender. We have no one who could win a race to a ball knocked through or down the channels, even if they did they’d struggle to hold it up while the plodders joined from midfield. We just need a big reset.

It's true, they have athletic players. Much more than us.

Our squad has always been at odds with the style Ralph wants to implement in my opinion, that's why it's so up and down. We'll have moments but ultimately the squad just isn't suited. We need to make a choice really - back him and allow him to build a squad that works to his methods, bit more athleticism and power in there, or let him go and bring in a manager who can get us ticking along with an average miss-mash bunch.

Either ways costs money, which we don't have. So it's certainly a case of better the devil you know for me, he's shown he can get this squad performing for 'periods' so that's why he gets that backing. But in general terms, we don't have the squad to be sustainable in his approach over long-term seasons.

[sydney_saint]

17 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Too much fannying around out wide.What’s wrong with getting past or level with the full back and whipping it in. The problem is modern wingers play on the “wrong” wing so their natural movement is back inside. It’s ok if you’re Mahrez where you pick a beautiful weighted pass, or knock it square to KDB to do so, but when you’re fucking Nathan Redmond, cutting in to square it to Prowse  or OR, who again pass it square, it’s becomes so predictable. Nothing wrong with getting in the mixer from wide angles, especially with Che Adams being a big physical lad and Ings sharp to pick up any bits. Knocking long straight balls isn’t great, we’re not Burnley. But we could get it into the box a bit quicker than we do. 

I totally agree with this. Our attacking play is far too one dimensional. It is not fashionable for most sides to go down the outsides and whip a ball in, yet I feel it is when we are at our most dangerous. We scored against Wolves doing that, and those times when Bertand gets to the line and whips in across often causes havoc. Again Bertrand set up Armstrong the other day who totally fluffed his lines. But we don't use this anywhere near as much as we should. Redmond is the biggest culprit of this, but plenty of others are as well, particularly our forward players. Only Bertrand is hitting the line regularly and he doesn't have the legs to do it constantly all game

[Whitey Grandad]

51 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I totally agree with this. Our attacking play is far too one dimensional. It is not fashionable for most sides to go down the outsides and whip a ball in, yet I feel it is when we are at our most dangerous. We scored against Wolves doing that, and those times when Bertand gets to the line and whips in across often causes havoc. Again Bertrand set up Armstrong the other day who totally fluffed his lines. But we don't use this anywhere near as much as we should. Redmond is the biggest culprit of this, but plenty of others are as well, particularly our forward players. Only Bertrand is hitting the line regularly and he doesn't have the legs to do it constantly all game

I would add to this that there are not enough  first-time balls either. By the time the player has got the ball under control the defence is set in its positions.

[Teddeer]

However we do it we need to mix up our play and make us less predictable or we are just too easy to defend against. These are professional coaches and players - they should be capable of changing things around during matches including spells where we recharge the batteries or preserve energy.

[Sarnia Cherie]

I do get annoyed when near the end of a game where we are either level or losing, McCarthy and the defence tippy tap around between themselves. Kick the damn thing up the pitch at this stage. What have you got to lose?

[Whitey Grandad]

25 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I do get annoyed when near the end of a game where we are either level or losing, McCarthy and the defence tippy tap around between themselves. Kick the damn thing up the pitch at this stage. What have you got to lose?

Against Wolves McCarthy even kicked the ball into the Kingsland. Ralph just shook his head in disbelief. 

[hackedoff]

Maybe the title would be better saying nothing wrong with doing something different than the ponderous ,slow,sideways/backwards stuff peddled out every game.

Or ,maybe nothing wrong with having a plan B.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

Could you imagine use bringing in Diego Costa when he was available? That would have been some sight. Pretty sure he would have tore our midfield to shreds if they didn't get the ball to him quickly enough!

[Fan The Flames]

I've seen Vestergaard ping a diagonal ball forward loads of times, someone even said he's a great long passer, so he must be doing it. Although we didn't do it as much against Leeds, but Ralph must have tweaked his tactics for that game.

[skintsaint]

Not sure about long balls but a few more direct balls into the channels over the top of the defence keeps their defence on their toes. At the moment they can push up quite high knowing we pass it around in front of them. 

[Teddeer]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Not sure about long balls but a few more direct balls into the channels over the top of the defence keeps their defence on their toes. At the moment they can push up quite high knowing we pass it around in front of them. 

Exactly the reason I started this thread.

[Whitey Grandad]

4 hours ago, skintsaint said:

Not sure about long balls but a few more direct balls into the channels over the top of the defence keeps their defence on their toes. At the moment they can push up quite high knowing we pass it around in front of them. 

It’s what Tottenham did to us at the start of the season.

[the saint in winchester]

16 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Could you imagine use bringing in Diego Costa when he was available? That would have been some sight. Pretty sure he would have tore our midfield to shreds if they didn't get the ball to him quickly enough!

Is Costa still available? Free agent after leaving Atletico Madrid. Kicking his heels in Brazil. Palmeriros offered him a short team deal ...but I can't establish if he joined them or not. He'd make Janko seem like a mild-mannered school kid. We need bite. We need to be tougher. right?

[SirWoody]

On 24/02/2021 at 16:34, Teddeer said:

I'll probably get shot down but I don't think we are direct enough at times. I'm not advocating that we continually lump the ball forward but surely the long ball still has a place in football particularly if played accurately to forwards making good runs. Apart from anything else it might surprise the opposition and give them something else to think about. The possession football where we try to advance but are happy to play the ball back to maybe reset and change the angle is great, I don't have an issue with it. However, without mixing things up a bit, we just become too predictable and easy to defend against. In Vestergaard we have one of the best long ball passers in the game and others can try their luck too but we aren't using this option. We often concede to long balls into the heart of our defence but seem very reluctant to return the favour. Variety can be the spice of life - let's have a bit of it.

Absolutely right, stop fannying around with it and get it up the pitch !!