Summer Transfer Window 2021

[Saint Garrett]

3 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

The issue has been we have wasted most of it. 

Not sure thats 100% true

2020/21

Diallo, Salisu, KWP, Walcott

2019/20

Ings, Adams, Djenepo

2018/19

Vestergaard, Elyounoussi, Gunn, Armstrong

2017/18

Carillo, Lemina, Hoedt, Bednarek

 

In that time since Gao came in, we have sold, VVD, Rodriguez, Targett, Cedric, Gallagher, Austin, Reed, Hojbjerg, Gunn, Hoedt

Yes we all know, Hoedt, Lemina, Elyounoussi, Carrillo have been an utter car crash of signings, but the last few years you cannot argue with the players that have been brought in, apart from maybe Djenepo who has shown decent flashes, and didn't cost very much.

The bigger problem was the first summer when Gao bought the club, and we bought Lemina and Hoedt, and then Carrillo in January, and wasting the VVD money on absolute shite.

 

[Antrimsaint]

3 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Not sure thats 100% true

2020/21

Diallo, Salisu, KWP, Walcott

2019/20

Ings, Adams, Djenepo

2018/19

Vestergaard, Elyounoussi, Gunn, Armstrong

2017/18

Carillo, Lemina, Hoedt, Bednarek

 

In that time since Gao came in, we have sold, VVD, Rodriguez, Targett, Cedric, Gallagher, Austin, Reed, Hojbjerg, Gunn, Hoedt

Yes we all know, Hoedt, Lemina, Elyounoussi, Carrillo have been an utter car crash of signings, but the last few years you cannot argue with the players that have been brought in, apart from maybe Djenepo who has shown decent flashes, and didn't cost very much.

The bigger problem was the first summer when Gao bought the club, and we bought Lemina and Hoedt, and then Carrillo in January, and wasting the VVD money on absolute shite.

 

Great post. Last 2 years great acquisitions. Just shows though a club of our size cannot absorb bad choices easily. It’s taken the best part of 4 years to rectify our squad. Feel for Ralph. I think he’s much better than a transitional manager. I think he would have worked wonders with a stable and competent first team.

[ErwinK1961]

11 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Not sure thats 100% true

2020/21

Diallo, Salisu, KWP, Walcott

2019/20

Ings, Adams, Djenepo

2018/19

Vestergaard, Elyounoussi, Gunn, Armstrong

2017/18

Carillo, Lemina, Hoedt, Bednarek

 

In that time since Gao came in, we have sold, VVD, Rodriguez, Targett, Cedric, Gallagher, Austin, Reed, Hojbjerg, Gunn, Hoedt

Yes we all know, Hoedt, Lemina, Elyounoussi, Carrillo have been an utter car crash of signings, but the last few years you cannot argue with the players that have been brought in, apart from maybe Djenepo who has shown decent flashes, and didn't cost very much.

The bigger problem was the first summer when Gao bought the club, and we bought Lemina and Hoedt, and then Carrillo in January, and wasting the VVD money on absolute shite.

 

Sorry, the main point I was trying to make was that we spend what we receive. The wider issue from there is you then have to get the incomings spot on.

When I say wasted, I guess I primarily mean the VVD cash - Carillo - £19m, Lemina £17m, Hoedt £15m, Gunn £10m, Moi £16m - that's £77m, plus wages we couldn't / can't shift. 

If nitpicking, in my opinion I'd say of those listed only Ings, Armstrong and KWP have been outright successes (Adams nearly there, Bendarek solid for the fee paid). Salisu and Diallo jury's still out but they weren't starters when everyone was fit. JV has been ok, but for the fee paid I'd have expected more since he's been here. Djenepo has done very little, still cost £14m. It has got better the last couple of years though for sure. 

Either way, my point was that we spend what we make. 

Edited 5 July, 2021 by ErwinK1961

[SambaMaverick]

Would anyone have Toby back as part of the Vestergaard deal? We could come down on price in order for them to pay a % of wages in a loan deal? Worth exploring IMO.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Either way, my point was that we spend what we make. 

isn't that what a football business should be doing? The debt we have saddled ourselves with, all be it covid induced means that in the coming years, we need to make a profit to enable us to pay that rising debt off.

[Chez]

43 minutes ago, SambaMaverick said:

Would anyone have Toby back as part of the Vestergaard deal? We could come down on price in order for them to pay a % of wages in a loan deal? Worth exploring IMO.

if we got him on a free, then we could probably stomach the £100k a week wages he probably will expect - if not, then I don't see us interested. 

[Maya's Dad]

59 minutes ago, Chez said:

if we got him on a free, then we could probably stomach the £100k a week wages he probably will expect - if not, then I don't see us interested. 

more likely the other way round

[Chez]

38 minutes ago, Maya's Dad said:

more likely the other way round

agree with that too, but not really sure why he wants to leave Spurs in the first place, so not sure what he is looking for.

[davefizzy14]

https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-southampton-close-to-10m-plus-armstrong-deal-after-breakthrough/

[the saint in winchester]

Coutinho is available for just €25M. Spend the Ings wages on him, and the proceeds of sale would buy him and Armstrong combined.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

Coutinho is available for just €25M. Spend the Ings wages on him, and the proceeds of sale would buy him and Armstrong combined.

I assume that's a joke.

[egg]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

Coutinho is available for just €25M. Spend the Ings wages on him, and the proceeds of sale would buy him and Armstrong combined.

Easy as peas eh. 

[egg]

4 hours ago, SambaMaverick said:

Would anyone have Toby back as part of the Vestergaard deal? We could come down on price in order for them to pay a % of wages in a loan deal? Worth exploring IMO.

If his wages were sensible, I'd have him in a heartbeat. Very good player, and some proper experience which our team needs. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, the saint in winchester said:

Coutinho is available for just €25M. Spend the Ings wages on him, and the proceeds of sale would buy him and Armstrong combined.

Are you serious? He earns £250,000 per week at Barcelona! 

[SuperSAINT]

Southampton are confident they can finalise a deal to sign Manchester United’s Brandon Williams on a season-long loan.

The two clubs have held talks, and with the full-back eager to get regular game time, good progress has been made. However, a loan fee, which United will insist upon, is yet to be agreed upon.

The St Mary’s side have tried in the past two transfer windows to add the player to Ralph Hasenhuttl’s squad but failed on both attempts.

Williams was keen to join Southampton on loan last summer, asking Ole Gunnar Solskjaer to give the deal the green light on deadline day after the arrival of Alex Telles, but the Norwegian wanted to keep the 20-year-old in his squad for depth.

However, the talented youngster managed only 14 senior appearances throughout the campaign despite United reaching the FA Cup quarter-final, Carabao Cup semi-final and the Europa League final.

Southampton went back in for Williams in January, only to have their advances turned down a second time by the Old Trafford hierarchy.

But they are now closing in on their long-standing target, with United willing to grant the player’s wish for consistent Premier League football at the third time of asking. Williams is a boyhood United fan, having joined the club aged seven, but is ready to move on, at least temporarily, to continue his development at this crucial age.

The Athletic understands the defender has been assured Hasenhuttl is ready to grant him much greater playing time than he was afforded at United last season, while complimentary reports on the Austrian’s management have made their way to Williams.

There are still details to sort, including salary contributions. Southampton would be expected to take on the entirety of the defender’s wages, just as they did when they signed Liverpool’s Takumi Minamino in January.

One stumbling block could yet be the fee. Should United demand a major payment from Southampton, the move might fall through.

Ed Woodward insisted on a £1.5 million fee for Jesse Lingard’s six-month loan to West Ham United, delaying the completion of the switch until late in the January window, and it remains to be seen where the executive vice-chairman pitches Williams.

Woodward and head of negotiations Matt Judge will weigh up the benefit Southampton would be getting against the possibility of Williams emerging from the experience as a better prospect for featuring in Solskjaer’s team, or his transfer value increasing.

It is regarded as unlikely there would be an option to buy included in the contract. But sources are encouraged a move will be completed sooner rather than later, with Southampton hoping to have Williams in for pre-season at the earliest moment. Williams was among the United players at Carrington on Monday for the first session back after the summer break.

Doubts had been raised about how much game time Williams would be afforded if he moved to Southampton, especially as Romain Perraud has just arrived from Stade Brest.

But Hasenhuttl wants to give Williams the opportunity to make either the left-back or right-back spot his own. Southampton had been targeting two full-backs this summer, and signing Perraud hasn’t altered their view on that.

Although the Frenchman has replaced Ryan Bertrand, there is an acceptance that the defensive unit still needs strengthening.

As it stands, Hasenhuttl only has Kyle Walker-Peters and Perraud as full-back options, with Jake Vokins having joined Ross County on loan and Yan Valery not in the first-team picture.

Williams became an important player for United at a time of need during the 2019-20 season, with Luke Shaw suffering injury and a dip in form. He made 36 appearances in all competitions, scored a superb volley at Sheffield United and hugely impressed Solskjaer with his determination and fearlessness.

Williams was rewarded with a new contract worth £65,000 per week that runs to 2024, with the option of a further year, and he made his England Under-21s debut. He was in Gareth Southgate’s thoughts for his England squad last September but injury ruled him out.

Shaw’s resurgence, the signing of Telles, and Solskjaer’s commitment to Aaron Wan-Bissaka on the opposite flank have limited Williams’ involvement since but his reputation in the game remains and several clubs have enquired about his signature this summer.

John Murtough, United’s new football director, has also scanned the market for places to put Williams, an acknowledgement by the club that after a season on the sidelines they needed to assist his desire for regular football.

[CB Fry]

So this kid would be the back up to KWP and our first signing of the summer Perraud?

So he's not going to a regular starter if he comes down, relying on injuries to KWP and Perraud. Which is likely because we do work our full backs hard. But still seems a bit weird, especially for this kid supposedly moving to get game time.

Will be interesting to see how he does as we have been chasing him for so long.

Edited 6 July, 2021 by CB Fry

[Dusic]

Personally I am not sold on Williams:

1. Hard to judge how good he actually is

2. £65k a week for a backup full back seems mental

3. No option to buy if he does well, are we just kicking the full back cover can down the road?

4. As with Minamino, United will want him to play and you wonder what is agreed regarding that to enable these deals to happen, a bit like with Minamino who suddenly got in the team after some Liverpool officials had been in touch with Saints following a period of few minutes.

Would much prefer a permanent signing that we can develop.

[skintsaint]

Bit mad if he really is on 65k a year!

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Personally I am not sold on Williams:

1. Hard to judge how good he actually is

2. £65k a week for a backup full back seems mental

3. No option to buy if he does well, are we just kicking the full back cover can down the road?

4. As with Minamino, United will want him to play and you wonder what is agreed regarding that to enable these deals to happen, a bit like with Minamino who suddenly got in the team after some Liverpool officials had been in touch with Saints following a period of few minutes.

Would much prefer a permanent signing that we can develop.

I think kicking the fullback cover can down the road might not be the worst idea. We have enough issues to deal with right now so dealing with this one later on could open up more budget for this summer. Furthermore we don't know how good Perraud will be, if he plays like a world beater this season we can buy someone cheap and reliable as a second choice who won't expect to start next summer, if Perraud struggles then maybe we invest a bit more money and get someone who will displace Perraud.

[Sir Ralph]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

I think kicking the fullback cover can down the road might not be the worst idea. We have enough issues to deal with right now so dealing with this one later on could open up more budget for this summer. Furthermore we don't know how good Perraud will be, if he plays like a world beater this season we can buy someone cheap and reliable as a second choice who won't expect to start next summer, if Perraud struggles then maybe we invest a bit more money and get someone who will displace Perraud.

This - spot on. Having watched Williams a few times hes a good little player and I think it would be a great move to secure him for a season as we would never have the option of signing permanently. 

Edited 6 July, 2021 by Sir Ralph

[SKD]

Personally I’d prefer Tangana. Offers more versatility and probably a more realistic permanent deal. 

[benjii]

If we are expected to pay all his wages - and they really are 65k a week- plus a few million in loan fees then it's quite an expensive loan for someone who will presumably be cover. A full back loan makes perfect sense but if its going to cost 6million quid then it could be better to go for a cheaper Cuco Martina / Jeremy Pied option and invest more in other areas. 

Improving at centre back, GK or attacking mid is more of a priority IMO.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

What's happening with Valery?  Has he been completely given up on?

[The Curse of St Mary's]

2 hours ago, Dusic said:

Personally I am not sold on Williams:

1. Hard to judge how good he actually is

2. £65k a week for a backup full back seems mental

3. No option to buy if he does well, are we just kicking the full back cover can down the road?

4. As with Minamino, United will want him to play and you wonder what is agreed regarding that to enable these deals to happen, a bit like with Minamino who suddenly got in the team after some Liverpool officials had been in touch with Saints following a period of few minutes.

Would much prefer a permanent signing that we can develop.

Average PL salary is £60k per week.  Not really surprising he's on £65k pw. Jack Stephens is on £45k pw but he maybe nearer the average if and when he signs a new contract. 

Point being paying all of Williams wages shouldnt be an issue as it's the going rate.

[waylander]

22 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

What's happening with Valery?  Has he been completely given up on?

It appears so.

[Charlie Wayman]

Let's face an uncomfortable truth if Ings and Vestergaard badger off during this summer break we will be knee deep in effluent without a paddle (being polite). It will make us odds on favourites for the drop and we will drop no doubt about that.

So, do we force them to stay against their will to see out their contracts and risk getting nothing for them but stay up or sell now and risk the bigger financial calamity of relegation. My guess is that Gao will take the short term view, will sell the players and hope to offload us before we drop. If he creams off £40/50m from their sale that will significantly reduce his exposure and allow him some flexibility on selling price. Don't bet on any of the selling fees being ploughed back in.

[Give it to Ron]

1 minute ago, Charlie Wayman said:

 Don't bet on any of the selling fees being ploughed back in.

Why not? They always have before!

[Give it to Ron]

31 minutes ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

What's happening with Valery?  Has he been completely given up on?

There was a rumour of a club in France interested but guess his wages maybe a stumbling block.

A player that can’t get a game at struggling Birmingham is not the answer.

[Sunglasses Ron]

5 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Let's face an uncomfortable truth if Ings and Vestergaard badger off during this summer break we will be knee deep in effluent without a paddle (being polite). It will make us odds on favourites for the drop and we will drop no doubt about that.

I don't want either to go, but I can't say I agree with that statement.

I remember the summer we lost Lallana, Lovren, Shaw and Lambert and had similar thoughts, but things turned out pretty good in the end.  I'd like to think our approach to recruitment is back on track now after the events of previous years, but I guess time will tell... 

[TWar]

3 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Let's face an uncomfortable truth if Ings and Vestergaard badger off during this summer break we will be knee deep in effluent without a paddle (being polite). It will make us odds on favourites for the drop and we will drop no doubt about that.

So, do we force them to stay against their will to see out their contracts and risk getting nothing for them but stay up or sell now and risk the bigger financial calamity of relegation. My guess is that Gao will take the short term view, will sell the players and hope to offload us before we drop. If he creams off £40/50m from their sale that will significantly reduce his exposure and allow him some flexibility on selling price. Don't bet on any of the selling fees being ploughed back in.

We could lose Vestergaard, Ings, JWP, and not replace any of them and we'd still have a squad as good if not better than what Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Brentford and Palace are working with right now. It's a weak league, we are currently 7th most likely to go down, I don't see the loss of Vestergaard and Ings taking us into the predicted bottom three.

We lose Ings we still have Adams who is just as good as anyone any of them have up top except maybe Toney although he's fully unproven. We lose Vestergaard we still have Salisu who is better than anyone they have at CB outside of the Burnley lads. And we will replace, no need to be so doom and gloom.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

The strength of the squad is almost secondary.  Which version of Ralph's chaos we choose this season will determine whether we go down or not.  

[SuperSAINT]

 

[Matthew Le God]

 

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, SuperSAINT said:

 

Nice that we are concreting up interest. I wonder what the first bid was.

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Nice that we are concreting up interest. I wonder what the first bid was.

I bet it was the sort of offer Spurs usually make for one of our players 🤣

[Pilchards]

The best option here is to offer Rovers a player too to bring the price down.

The toons get 40% on any money made on this.

[Suhari]

5 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

The best option here is to offer Rovers a player too to bring the price down.

The toons get 40% on any money made on this.

Long, Obiwanfemi, N'Dundunlandudu, Valery. Surely all decent options for them.

[Convict Colony]

Over the last year I've been following both Enock and Patson.

Looks like Enock is off to Brighton - good player if they get him

Edit he has joined them official

Edited 6 July, 2021 by Convict Colony

[Saint Garrett]

Think their problem is they need cash for FFP or whatever it’s called now in the championship, so player exchange is crap for them; and of course low cash offer is too due to the 40% sell on fee. Hence why Venkys are asking £25m. They’re living in dreamland this summer though, just look at Barcelona….! 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

4 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Over the last year I've been following both Enock and Patson.

Looks like Enock is off to Brighton - good player if they get him

Edit he has joined them official

Bissouma replacement maybe?

[SKD]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

We could lose Vestergaard, Ings, JWP, and not replace any of them and we'd still have a squad as good if not better than what Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Brentford and Palace are working with right now. It's a weak league, we are currently 7th most likely to go down, I don't see the loss of Vestergaard and Ings taking us into the predicted bottom three.

We lose Ings we still have Adams who is just as good as anyone any of them have up top except maybe Toney although he's fully unproven. We lose Vestergaard we still have Salisu who is better than anyone they have at CB outside of the Burnley lads. And we will replace, no need to be so doom and gloom.

Incredibly arrogant to think a team who struggled to muster up a handful of wins in 20 games, can lose there best 3 players and main source of goals and be on no danger of relegation. 

[saint lard]

We are after pereira from West Brom. 
which is nice. 
god only knows how we will fund that effort. 

Edited 6 July, 2021 by saint lard

[Saint Matty 76]

16 minutes ago, saint lard said:

We are after pereira from West Brom. 
which is nice. 
god only knows how we will fund that effort. 

Where did you see this? There were rumours early on that their expected fee isn't high as you'd think.

I'd be delighted if we somehow managed to pull off a summer of Perraud, Williams (loan), CB (if Vestergaard goes), Pereira, Armstrong and ST (if Ings goes).

[TWar]

33 minutes ago, SKD said:

Incredibly arrogant to think a team who struggled to muster up a handful of wins in 20 games, can lose there best 3 players and main source of goals and be on no danger of relegation. 

I didn't say "no danger", I just said we won't be in the three most likely to go down, that six other teams will still have worse squads than us, and that there was no need to be all doom and gloom. Obviously there is always some danger. Feel like you might have read what you expected to read and not what I actually said.

Edited 6 July, 2021 by TWar

[SuperSAINT]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

Over the last year I've been following both Enock and Patson.

Looks like Enock is off to Brighton - good player if they get him

Edit he has joined them official

Top scouting, as usual, mon amie.

[Chez]

2 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Let's face an uncomfortable truth if Ings and Vestergaard badger off during this summer break we will be knee deep in effluent without a paddle (being polite). It will make us odds on favourites for the drop and we will drop no doubt about that.

So, do we force them to stay against their will to see out their contracts and risk getting nothing for them but stay up or sell now and risk the bigger financial calamity of relegation. My guess is that Gao will take the short term view, will sell the players and hope to offload us before we drop. If he creams off £40/50m from their sale that will significantly reduce his exposure and allow him some flexibility on selling price. Don't bet on any of the selling fees being ploughed back in.

we don't `risk of getting nothing for them' if we make them see out their contracts. It is certain that we will get nothing for them. Also, there is no assurance that we stay up even if they do both stay.

What makes you think he will a) "cream of money from their sale"? b) fees not being ploughed back in? He needs a premier league club if he is to recoup most of the money he spent buying us. If you sell two first team players and spend nothing to replace them, you put that league place at severe risk, and he's not an idiot, is he?

[Turkish]

Great to see Laura Rafferty back with the club, bit like Theos return, welcome back Laura!

[Chez]

52 minutes ago, saint lard said:

We are after pereira from West Brom. 
which is nice. 
god only knows how we will fund that effort. 

I like the sound of that rumour.

[Toussaint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Great to see Laura Rafferty back with the club, bit like Theos return, welcome back Laura!

She is quite pretty, which is the most important thing in women's sport, which is one thing everyone can agree upon.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

Bissouma replacement maybe?

It does feel like he has been on his way out for a long time now. They (Brighton) signed a DM called Caicedo back in January, but he's quite young, so perhaps isn't ready and thus this latest signing.