Summer Transfer Window 2021

[Smirking_Saint]

12 minutes ago, SKD said:

Edouard going to Leicester. 

More than likely

Seems an absolute steal at that price

[LiberalCommunist]

Big fan of James. And the way we have run our squad down over the last four years, he's pretty integral for us. He has some great attributes, but also some rather large limitations. If they spend £40M on him, I can see their fans turning on him after a season. Expectations would be far too high for what he would deliver. Again, not trying to run him down at all. But the reason he is so important to us reads like a mini list.

Fitness. Nobody else comes close to completing a whole season, he's just done two in a row.

Deadball. He is rather good, but that doesn't negate the fact we have no-one else. 

Utility. Can play different roles. We lack players of this type.

Academy. Last one out, please turn the lights off.  Its now getting to this stage. 

And the lad is from Pompey, that's got to annoy a lot of fish folk. Priceless. 

 

[Nemi]

29 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

Big fan of James. And the way we have run our squad down over the last four years, he's pretty integral for us. He has some great attributes, but also some rather large limitations. If they spend £40M on him, I can see their fans turning on him after a season. Expectations would be far too high for what he would deliver. Again, not trying to run him down at all. But the reason he is so important to us reads like a mini list.

Fitness. Nobody else comes close to completing a whole season, he's just done two in a row.

Deadball. He is rather good, but that doesn't negate the fact we have no-one else. 

Utility. Can play different roles. We lack players of this type.

Academy. Last one out, please turn the lights off.  Its now getting to this stage. 

And the lad is from Pompey, that's got to annoy a lot of fish folk. Priceless. 

 

This is spot on really. He’s no more than a fairly decent player with exceptional free-kicks which get the headlines rather than his numerous limitations. 
 

He’s decent player for the level we are at - we benefit greatly from his set-pieces and pressing but he’s also a large part of why we are so toothless, especially when we’re chasing a goal because he doesn’t move the ball fast enough and doesn’t get into positions to pick up the ball from defence and connect us to attack quickly.

 

It won’t happen anyway cause he’s not worth £40m but he really wouldn’t suit Villa anyway - they need a midfielder who can get the ball to Grealish quickly and that really is JWP’s biggest weakness. Don’t think he’d be that popular there after a year.

[Super_Uwe]

The only reason the club should have to sell JWP is if they are offered absolutely ridiculous money.

I'm talking £60-70m. It needs to be way in excess of his market value to give us half a chance to rebuild.

But I would like to hear our board come out and say he's critical to our future and not for sale. Nobody is indispensable but he has a real chance to become a one club legend.

[Killers Knee]

why wouldn't the club use the money to pay off the ridiculous covid debt?  We would see half of any fee being used to sign players.

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

why wouldn't the club use the money to pay off the ridiculous covid debt?  We would see half of any fee being used to sign players.

Because that would put us at risk of relegation which would be orders of magnitude more harmful than a debt we don't have to pay off till 2025 anyway

[Cartman]

6 minutes ago, Killers Knee said:

why wouldn't the club use the money to pay off the ridiculous covid debt?  We would see half of any fee being used to sign players.

Because the point of the loan was precisely so that we wouldn't find ourselves in a situation where we would be forced to sell players to cover any cash shortfalls and be able to invest in the squad as normal. And it is only due to be paid in 2025. I swear some people seem to think the debt was created but the money received went into a black hole instead of the club's bank account.

[OldNick]

Personally a 30-40m fee if offered should be accepted. Get a bit of money in and get a freshness to some parts of the squad. JWP is exceptional in some areas, but he does not play a killer ball in open play and rarely gets into goal scoring positions. For someone who strikes a dead ball so well, he's pretty poor shooting a moving ball

[the saint in winchester]

I'm of the view that if the offer is sizeable enough (to be defined) we have to consider selling JWP. We were banking on £25M from an Ings sale to fund other purchases. This has come from left field, but (say) £50M from JWP sets us up also.

As someone noted above, we think he's invaluable, but he's not. There must be a price at which the benefits of selling outweigh the risks.

[OldNick]

I also wonder if this disappointment may effect JWP's performances next season and his desire may slip. I remember MLT not quite reach teh same heights after Hoddle messed his head.

[OldNick]

1 minute ago, the saint in winchester said:

I'm of the view that if the offer is sizeable enough (to be defined) we have to consider selling JWP. We were banking on £25M from an Ings sale to fund other purchases. This has come from left field, but (say) £50M from JWP sets us up also.

As someone noted above, we think he's invaluable, but he's not. There must be a price at which the benefits of selling outweigh the risks.

In the current market 30+ is a very good fee, but I agree with the rest you say

[Saint86]

23 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Personally a 30-40m fee if offered should be accepted. Get a bit of money in and get a freshness to some parts of the squad. JWP is exceptional in some areas, but he does not play a killer ball in open play and rarely gets into goal scoring positions. For someone who strikes a dead ball so well, he's pretty poor shooting a moving ball

He has very good all round stats for both defensive and attacking play whilst playing a predominantly central/defensive role. It is not his fault he doesn't get into goal scoring positions when he is playing his part in a very strict tactical setup. And as for killer balls, he sits joint 16th for key passes per game, which is level with players like Maddison who are far more attacking and playing in better sides. Or did you expect him to be above players like KDB, Mount, Salah etc? 🧐

He's our 3rd highest scorer (with 8 goals) and most creative player (with 7 assists) - both stats from the league. On top of that he is one of the best set piece specialists in world football and extremely fit and reliable. And he manages all that playing in a relatively poor side.

Not sure what else you expect, he's turning into a very complete central midfielder.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Saint86

[Toussaint]

1 minute ago, Saint86 said:

He has very good all round stats for both defensive and attacking play whilst playing a predominantly central/defensive role. It is not his fault he doesn't get into goal scoring positions when he is playing his part in a very strict tactical setup. And as for killer balls, he sits joint 16th for key passes per game, which is level with players like Maddison who are far more attacking and playing in better sides.

He's our 3rd highest scorer (with 8 goals) and most creative player (with 7 assists) - both stats from the league. On top of that he is one of the best set piece specialists in world football and extremely fit and reliable. And he manages all that playing in a relatively poor side.

Not sure what else you expect, he's turning into a very complete central midfielder.

Agreed, and you have to bear in mind he has achieved all of that with some bang average at best players around him. Honestly could see him at somewhere like MU, Tottenham or Arsenal.  

[Toussaint]

Lots of references and speculation about "current market" (covid affected values). Is there any indication so far that values are, or will be lower? I guess it's too early to know as nothing has really got moving yet. Anyone have any insights?

[Convict Colony]

Some current and suggested players:

Koopmeiners - now being linked with a 18mil bid to Atalanta after they had a 16mil bid turned down.

Joey Veerman - linked with a lot of clubs in NL and abroad (inc Rangers/Celtic)

Elyounoussi - Linked with Hertha, Wolfsburg and Eintrachk Frankfurt

Jovanne Cabral - Left winger we were apparently in talks with him last summer from Sporting - never heard of him but but think he was a pre-walcott interest

[Saint86]

Just now, Toussaint said:

Lots of references and speculation about "current market" (covid affected values). Is there any indication so far that values are, or will be lower? I guess it's too early to know as nothing has really got moving yet. Anyone have any insights?

Current market is fairly irrelevant to saints unless the owner decides to try and force a sale. He's on a 5year contract so we've got a year or two unless JWP himself kicks off🤷‍♀️ - which i think is unlikely.

[OldNick]

7 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

He has very good all round stats for both defensive and attacking play whilst playing a predominantly central/defensive role. It is not his fault he doesn't get into goal scoring positions when he is playing his part in a very strict tactical setup. And as for killer balls, he sits joint 16th for key passes per game, which is level with players like Maddison who are far more attacking and playing in better sides. Or did you expect him to be above players like KDB, Mount, Salah etc? 🧐

He's our 3rd highest scorer (with 8 goals) and most creative player (with 7 assists) - both stats from the league. On top of that he is one of the best set piece specialists in world football and extremely fit and reliable. And he manages all that playing in a relatively poor side.

Not sure what else you expect, he's turning into a very complete central midfielder.

Sorry I cant recall many defence splitting passes, slide rule balls but I may be too harsh. The goals I assume were mainly freekicks? He is foremost a defensive midfielder and tidy on the ball, but do you not feel he should press forward more and actually make more attacking play?

[OldNick]

5 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Lots of references and speculation about "current market" (covid affected values). Is there any indication so far that values are, or will be lower? I guess it's too early to know as nothing has really got moving yet. Anyone have any insights?

I suspect the amount of players released tells us something about clubs finances. Im sure there are many players released every season but I cant recall as many who are so called 'names'

[Toussaint]

8 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Current market is fairly irrelevant to saints unless the owner decides to try and force a sale. He's on a 5year contract so we've got a year or two unless JWP himself kicks off🤷‍♀️ - which i think is unlikely.

I was thinking generally, how values have been affected, or not. My feeling is not much will change.

[Saint Garrett]

Will be interesting to see what the market does over the next months, but the figures being bounced about are still ridiculous.

Kane - £150m

Konate - £35m

Buendia - £40m

There is definitely some bargains to be had as some clubs will be in the same boat as us, need to offload to bring some in, but still think you’re going to see some stupidly large deals

[TWar]

10 minutes ago, OldNick said:

do you not feel he should press forward more and actually make more attacking play?

Not really. We have very high fullbacks and four dedicated attacking players. If he pushed right up too then we would be very exposed on the counter. His job is to be more of a Schneiderlin than a Steven Davis.

If you look at any formation that effectively has four forwards (4231, 4222, 424, ect.) they always have a deep sitting double pivot because 7 attacking players is dangerously excessive and fullbacks are told to bomb on.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by TWar

[Neef]

We shouldn't sell JWP at any cost that Villa can realistically offer. 

In a summer where we're supposed to be building a squad, potentially losing a starting CB, a starting CM and a starting Striker would take us backwards. 

[SFC Forever]

for that to work we would probably need a different manager and style of play so that the 3 sold could be adequately replaced to suit.

[hackedoff]

1 hour ago, Neef said:

We shouldn't sell JWP at any cost that Villa can realistically offer. 

In a summer where we're supposed to be building a squad, potentially losing a starting CB, a starting CM and a starting Striker would take us backwards. 

For the owner,turning a profit on these players would not be seen as a step backwards.

[the saint in winchester]

The report I read suggested Villa would be prepared to top their Buendia fee to get JWP.

Again, just newspaper reports, so I can't guarantee this is correct, but it was reported the fee for Buendia is £34M down plus £6M in add-ons. That would put the JWP offer as in the £35-45M bracket, and I think the club have to consider it. I appreciate many don't want to see our established senior players leave us, but we need (IMHO) to get back to the 'buy low sell high' philosophy, especially with the debt we are in.

With £40M, personally I would get in that Delaney fella (£8M), a new LB (£15M), a new striker (up to £17M). Use Jankewitz as the 4th DM. Develop him.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by the saint in winchester

[JustinSFC]

Not villa.

Surely not.

If it's villa it has to be well North of £50m, they're a direct rival.

Never mind topping their Buenda fee, if a direct rival wants to take our Captain and main lynch pin on a 4 year contract, they can pay through the fucking nose.

[Dusic]

Genuinely staggering that some think we should entertain offers of £30-£40m for our most important player, in his prime years and with a long contract.

If all of a sudden they chuck around £50m plus then it should be considered, but I don't see that happening as it wouldn't really represent value for them.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Dusic

[SKD]

14 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Not villa.

Surely not.

If it's villa it has to be well North of £50m, they're a direct rival.

Never mind topping their Buenda fee, if a direct rival wants to take our Captain and main lynch pin on a 4 year contract, they can pay through the fucking nose.

I doubt Villa will be a relegation rival next season, to be honest. 
 

We’ll be competing with Norwich, Brentford,  Burnley etc. I can see Villa being comfortable mid-table. 
 

The fact they even think they have a chance at buying our best players really shows how far the club has regressed in past years. Shocking management of the club. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Just now, SKD said:

I doubt Villa will be a relegation rival next season, to be honest. 
 

We’ll be competing with Norwich, Brentford,  Burnley etc. I can see Villa being comfortable mid-table. 
 

The fact they even think they have a chance at buying our best players really shows how far the club has regressed in past years. Shocking management of the club. 

Considering Villa were extremely fortunate to survive in the prem the season before last and we were comfortable mid table - it has taken exactly 1 season for the tables to turn

[SKD]

Just now, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Considering Villa were extremely fortunate to survive in the prem the season before last and we were comfortable mid table - it has taken exactly 1 season for the tables to turn

It only takes a season when you have a decent window and invest some money. They spent big on players like Watkins, Martinez and Barkley (appreciate he’s only a loan, but it was an expensive deal) and they’ve all been decent. This summer they’ve already spent big on Bunedia whilst weve scraping the bargain barrel and getting ‘rough diamonds’. 

Reality is, they’re more of a bag of shit than a bag of rough diamonds. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

5 minutes ago, SKD said:

It only takes a season when you have a decent window and invest some money. They spent big on players like Watkins, Martinez and Barkley (appreciate he’s only a loan, but it was an expensive deal) and they’ve all been decent. This summer they’ve already spent big on Bunedia whilst weve scraping the bargain barrel and getting ‘rough diamonds’. 

Reality is, they’re more of a bag of shit than a bag of rough diamonds. 

Yep, agreed. We are reaping the rewards of no investment. Really not looking forward to next season as things stand.

[Dusic]

1 minute ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Considering Villa were extremely fortunate to survive in the prem the season before last and we were comfortable mid table - it has taken exactly 1 season for the tables to turn

Alao highlights the difference that spending makes to league position.

In 5 transfers windows Ralph has signed 5 players on permanent deals:

Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Salisu and Diallo

In the last 4 windows Smith has been able to sign 14 on permanent deals: Douglas Luiz, Mings, Wesley, Targett, Konsa, Nakamba, Samatta, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Cash, Watkins, Traore, Sanson and Martinez

Villa, within 3 windows basically changed the whole of their team and improved from it, especially after the second summer where the success rate was higher.

Just shows that Ralph has certainly been hindered in trying to really change the fortunes of a team that struggled before he arrived.

If you really want to dramatically change fortunes then you need to sign good players.

[Toussaint]

44 minutes ago, the saint in winchester said:

The report I read suggested Villa would be prepared to top their Buendia fee to get JWP.

Again, just newspaper reports, so I can't guarantee this is correct, but it was reported the fee for Buendia is £34M down plus £6M in add-ons. That would put the JWP offer as in the £35-45M bracket, and I think the club have to consider it. I appreciate many don't want to see our established senior players leave us, but we need (IMHO) to get back to the 'buy low sell high' philosophy, especially with the debt we are in.

With £40M, personally I would get in that Delaney fella (£8M), a new LB (£15M), a new striker (up to £17M). Use Jankewitz as the 4th DM. Develop him.

I just don't have any confidence that we would re invest effectively.

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Toussaint

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Leave off the word "effectively" and I think you're even closer to the truth!!

[Disco Stu]

As has been said, that money will disappear.

[SKD]

12 minutes ago, Dusic said:

Alao highlights the difference that spending makes to league position.

In 5 transfers windows Ralph has signed 5 players on permanent deals:

Djenepo, Adams, KWP, Salisu and Diallo

In the last 4 windows Smith has been able to sign 14 on permanent deals: Douglas Luiz, Mings, Wesley, Targett, Konsa, Nakamba, Samatta, Trezeguet, El Ghazi, Cash, Watkins, Traore, Sanson and Martinez

Villa, within 3 windows basically changed the whole of their team and improved from it, especially after the second summer where the success rate was higher.

Just shows that Ralph has certainly been hindered in trying to really change the fortunes of a team that struggled before he arrived.

If you really want to dramatically change fortunes then you need to sign good players.

Yep, without a doubt. Good players (like actual good players who make a difference) cost money, much more than the 10-15m were apparently willing to spend. Of course you’ll Have an anomaly within that, but I’m talking generally. It’s why we’ve regressed to the state we’re in, a lot of pretty average players. 

[ErwinK1961]

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

As has been said, that money will disappear.

I'm not a Gao fan, but when has any of our incoming transfer funds just disappeared? As far as I can see, we spend what we make - the issue's been we've spent it badly.

Not that it's relevant, we are not going to sell JWP to Villa.

[nta786]

12 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I'm not a Gao fan, but when has any of our incoming transfer funds just disappeared? As far as I can see, we spend what we make - the issue's been we've spent it badly.

Not that it's relevant, we are not going to sell JWP to Villa.

I mean I have no idea how reliable this is, but would it kill to have a net spend similar to the clubs above - even Bournemouth in this list are 8th.

The likes of Fulham, Wolves, Palace, Bournemouth (I could go on) have all spent over £20m on one player, our record signing remains Carrillo/Ings both from 2018 (MLG note- the price for Ings was agreed in 2018 even if it was loan originally).

It seems we are the only club where we have to sell to purchase players.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

^Or a good table above here.

Our ambitions are competing with Palace and Burnley rather than to push on and compete for top 10 against the likes of WHU, Everton, Villa, Wolves etc etc 

Edited 7 June, 2021 by nta786

[ErwinK1961]

3 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I mean I have no idea how reliable this is, but would it kill to have a net spend similar to the clubs above - even Bournemouth in this list are 8th.

The likes of Fulham, Wolves, Palace, Bournemouth (I could go on) have all spent over £20m on one player, our record signing remains Carrillo/Ings both from 2018 (MLG note- the price for Ings was agreed in 2018 even if it was loan originally).

It seems we are the only club where we have to sell to purchase players.

Of course - like I said, I'm not a Gao fan and I'd love us to spend big on players or not have to sell to buy. But the notion that if we sell JWP the money would 'disappear' is just not correct. 

[Saint Matty 76]

It is pretty depressing, any other team with the three year spell we had would have kicked on massively, or at least attempted to.

Semmens seemed pretty confident of some sort of takeover/investment this summer, would like to think we'd hear something about that soon because every year we spent £20m~ or so just puts us further behind the rest.

[Chez]

On 06/06/2021 at 13:15, SuperSAINT said:

How much do we think JWP is worth?

Good question. Assessing his ability is one thing, but our current financial situation and the Ings potential transfer will obviously have a major bearing on the price he goes for - which can be two very different things. With Covid, its a difficult market to assess. Who actually has any money in the Prem except those with sugar daddies. I'd of thought £35m and we'd be very tempted indeed. He's a very decent footballer and with his first touch would look at home in any side. He's not irreplaceable, but equally its not easy finding players that can shine at CM straight away. We know we have to sell players every now and then. If Ings goes on a free then where is the next incoming transfer fee coming from?  

 

 

[Wade Garrett]

I don’t get how some supporters want us to sell Ings and JWP.

Madness.

[Chez]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Lots of references and speculation about "current market" (covid affected values). Is there any indication so far that values are, or will be lower? I guess it's too early to know as nothing has really got moving yet. Anyone have any insights?

You have to look at clubs like us that are attempting to be self sufficient. We have take a £70m loan out to cover the shortfall. Whether some of that is to give us some cash to play with the summer, I'm not sure, but it would be very surprising if clubs without rich owners who give regular `gifts' spend much this summer. It could be a very split market in he prem this summer. Rich owners that spend, the rest. Maybe its always been that way, but you could have an even wider gap. I wonder if even the likes of Manure will have a lower cap that normal, all be it they will probably still spend £100m plus.

[Chapel End]

24 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t get how some supporters want us to sell Ings and JWP.

Madness.

Loons

[Chez]

39 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I mean I have no idea how reliable this is, but would it kill to have a net spend similar to the clubs above - even Bournemouth in this list are 8th.

The likes of Fulham, Wolves, Palace, Bournemouth (I could go on) have all spent over £20m on one player, our record signing remains Carrillo/Ings both from 2018 (MLG note- the price for Ings was agreed in 2018 even if it was loan originally).

It seems we are the only club where we have to sell to purchase players.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

^Or a good table above here.

Our ambitions are competing with Palace and Burnley rather than to push on and compete for top 10 against the likes of WHU, Everton, Villa, Wolves etc etc 

I've posted before, that a more accurate table would be wages + transfer fees/loan fees. I guess a column showing annual income too would be nice. Not easy to make comparison's with different financial years for clubs.

[Chez]

1 hour ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Yep, agreed. We are reaping the rewards of no investment. Really not looking forward to next season as things stand.

when you say investment, do you mean owner gifts or loans? 

[Chez]

30 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t get how some supporters want us to sell Ings and JWP.

Madness.

Not sure fans want to sell them, but maybe they are being pragmatic knowing as to where we are in the food chain and what makes good business sense when the club is run self sufficiently (gets no hand outs from the owner).  If you can only spend what you bring in, knowing when to sell to critical otherwise player see their contracts out, offering no money to spend on their replacement.  As a fan, its keep you best players, as someone considering the long term finances (not sure why we do that, but we do) its sell high, buy low.

[stevy777_x]

30 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I don’t get how some supporters want us to sell Ings and JWP.

Madness.

Because it is one of the only ways of overhauling the whole squad.

with our current transfer budget we are restricting our pool of available players where with JWP money we could massively upgrade it.

I m tired of standing still, if we even wait next summer to get rid of our deadwood, how are replacing them if we have no money to spend on transfers?

Selling Ings might not be a good idea as we might not get much for him so no point if it is only 15-20 M

[Chez]

4 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

Because it is one of the only ways of overhauling the whole squad.

with our current transfer budget we are restricting our pool of available players where with JWP money we could massively upgrade it.

I m tired of standing still, if we even wait next summer to get rid of our deadwood, how are replacing them if we have no money to spend on transfers?

Selling Ings might not be a good idea as we might not get much for him so no point if it is only 15-20 M

the alternative to a revolution is a slow evolution. As one or two leave, fill those gaps with players that are as good or better than those leaving (and those at the club hopefully improving). Every signing needs to come off. That rarely happens.

The Ings situation is a nightmare really. We need his goals to stay up, but what do we do this time next year when he leaves and we still need his goals to stay up, but have £0 to spend on his replacement?

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Chez

[Christophenburg]

Just now, Chez said:

The Ings situation is a nightmare really. We need his goals to stay up, but what do we do this time next year when he leaves and we still need his goals to stay up, but have £0 to spend on his replacement?

Exactly - if Ings isn't going to sign a new contract lets at least use any income his sale generates to buy a replacement. Doing so on a free at the end of next season seems unnecessarily reckless.

As for JWP - that's probably the one sale I don't get. Could we conceivably replace what he offers the team with even two transfers at £15m (assuming he leaves for £30m or so)? I'm not convinced, and on balance would rather keep him and evolve the side with one or two replacements then lose him and risk it all on a handful of new players