Summer Transfer Window 2021

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I obviously could be wrong but I think Palace will be relegated next season. It's just too much rebuilding to do in one summer

[Saint_clark]

4 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I obviously could be wrong but I think Palace will be relegated next season. It's just too much rebuilding to do in one summer

It's a huge job, unless they're sitting on some unspent funds or they're planning to sell Eze to raise a little bit (still wouldn't be enough) I think you could be right.

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

or they're planning to sell Eze to raise a little bit

More likely to sell Zaha as Eze out till Xmas.

[AlexLaw76]

6 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I obviously could be wrong but I think Palace will be relegated next season. It's just too much rebuilding to do in one summer

you look at it from a saints-tinted pair of glasses.  Most other club will adequately invest into their teams.  I suspect Palace will do the same.

Even if that includes selling Zaha.

[CB Fry]

35 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

you look at it from a saints-tinted pair of glasses.  Most other club will adequately invest into their teams.  I suspect Palace will do the same.

Even if that includes selling Zaha.

Except that is equally a Saints tinted perspective, incredibly common on this forum. The ones that see every other club as faultlessly excellent and us as terrible. (The ones that see the team in 18th as destined for guaranteed safety but ten points ahead Saints  as doomed to relegation).

The last manager before Hodgson took Palace to five straight defeats, which I think once Roy had took over was seven straight defeats at the start of the season.

Palace could easily be in the mix if they pick the wrong manager and their rebuild goes wrong. They are incredibly similar to us. If we were in Palace's position this forum would be shitting itself.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It's a huge job, unless they're sitting on some unspent funds or they're planning to sell Eze to raise a little bit (still wouldn't be enough) I think you could be right.

Eze has torn his Achilles and is out until next year. They're in big trouble.

[Sarnia Cherie]

Until our esteemed owner asks for a realistic price for a low end of average football club and then clears off, I can't see much changing in the way of manager or players. I have all my hopes pinned on an early sale to someone in Leiber's mould.🙏

[saintwbu]

I don’t think they really spent the £50mil they got from Wan-Bissaka, and they’re getting some high earners off the books with a few decent young players coming through.

Potentially, it’s a good opportunity for a manager to come in and build from scratch. Equally, it’s a big risk and more often than not wholesale change for small clubs ends in relegation. 

[stevy777_x]

5 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

It's a huge job, unless they're sitting on some unspent funds or they're planning to sell Eze to raise a little bit (still wouldn't be enough) I think you could be right.

You do know Eze is out for 9 months?

[Saint_clark]

14 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

You do know Eze is out for 9 months?

Nope, obviously I didn't know that. 

They're fucked. No-one is paying top money for Zaha anymore.

 

[Pilchards]

Think it’s crazy we are looking at three worse teams than us for next season.

Get a decent manager in who gets the best out of the players and we will be looking upwards.

I bet Lampard is staggered how Tuchel managed to turn his team around in such a short time without buying any new players.

[SKD]

2 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Until our esteemed owner asks for a realistic price for a low end of average football club and then clears off, I can't see much changing in the way of manager or players. I have all my hopes pinned on an early sale to someone in Leiber's mould.🙏

liebherr wouldn’t have brought us as a premier league club or in the state we currently are. 

Were an awful investment for anyone other than a rich Arab who wants to have some fun money or compete against his other rich Arab friends. 
 

Unless we luck out with someone like Ratcliff or RB who see us as a crown to their current portfolio, the next owner will be more of the same. 

[SuperSAINT]

http://sportwitness.co.uk/leicester-southampton-crystal-palace-manifested-defender-face-huge-european-competition/

[kjurwi]

18 hours ago, UpweySaint said:

No actual links but in the HCDAJFU spirit ...

 

• Ludwig Augustinsson 27 attacking left back at Werder Bremen, decent amount of caps for Sweden experienced in a good standard league well known to our manager. The reliable source that is wikipedia seems to suggest he's played CM in his youth teams days so again maybe a bit of versatility. 
• Milot Rashica 24 Attacking midfielder more often than not a winger also at Werder and we've been linked several times in the past.

 

Werder have been relegated and apparently need to clear the decks due to financial concerns. I expect we might have a younger player than Augustinsson in mind but both probably not out of our price range - articles linking Villa to Rashica seem to suggest £14mil might be the going rate. £20 mil for the pair?

I don't want Augustinsson, but he would probobly do a decent job. Not a great left back in my opinion. 

[tajjuk]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

They're fucked. No-one is paying top money for Zaha anymore.

Yep, because also Nathan Ferguson is out with the same injury for 6 months, a young player they were hoping to play an important role.

14 first team players who's contracts are ending, 2 loans ending (Michy Batshuayi and Mateta), the manager leaving and two of their remaining players on long term injuries. 

All during a global pandemic, with not much sale value in the squad aside Zaha, who is going to be 29 in November. 

If they don't re-sign some of those players then their first team squad is going to have about 8 senior players left, at least half of whom are already into their 30s.  Their whole current first team squad only has 4 players under 25, and two of those have just picked up bad injuries. 

 

We have issues, but we have a solid first eleven with some gaps and contract issues, plus a few decent younger players. We are in a way superior position in comparison. 

 

Basically us, Newcastle, Wolves, Palace, Brighton and Burnley were in a group of shit but not as shit as the relegated clubs.  Out of that group Wolves have a new manager incoming so that is an unknown, Burnley are probably more cash strapped than us and also have a bit an aging squad, Palace are in a mess and Newcastle are Newcastle, they have a shit manager who struck lucky with a loan signing who had a purple patch and pushed them up the league.  Brighton are an unknown quantity, if they find a good striker they could easily push top 10, if they don't then they are likely to be down there again. 

Then you have Watford, Norwich, and one of Swansea or Brentford.  Can't see much coming from Watford to be honest, Norwich may be better than they were before in the league I reckon but there is talk of them losing their best players like Buendia so depends on how they invest, Brentford I think could do a Leeds if they came up as they are a well run club, you'd think Swansea would be favourites for relegation. 

So we need to recruit better than those clubs (I also reckon if Villa lose Grealish they will be down there as they sucked without him when he was injured) and arguably with our full fit first eleven probably have amongst the best first team out of those clubs IMO.  

Huge amount depends on Ings, if we have him (or can miraculously produce a recruitment gem to replace him) then it stands us in good stead as he's a stand out player for a bottom half PL team and you can see how Wolves missed Gimenez or how Villa missed Grealish how much those sort of players make an impact. 

Add in two decent first team signings and some more depth so we don't collapse with some injuries like we did after xmas and I think we can easily finish ahead of most of that group. 

Loads of other clubs around us have issues, managers going, injuries, out of contract players, important players potentially going, the bottom 12 ish teams of PL are a much of muchness to be honest. Big players staying fit and some key signings will make the difference. 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Pilchards said:

Think it’s crazy we are looking at three worse teams than us for next season.

Get a decent manager in who gets the best out of the players and we will be looking upwards.

I bet Lampard is staggered how Tuchel managed to turn his team around in such a short time without buying any new players.

Do you think that Tuchel could get more out of this squad over a full season?

[Pilchards]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Do you think that Tuchel could get more out of this squad over a full season?

100% he would yes.

He certainly wouldn’t be playing with Redmond for starters.

Then he would play a better defensive line up where the two wing backs don’t bomb forward all the time leaving two slow centre backs to cover any breakaway.

Finally our players would play for 90 minutes and not just 45 minutes and be totally fucked at half time.

I could go on?

 

 

[LaptopSaint]

3 hours ago, tajjuk said:

Yep, because also Nathan Ferguson is out with the same injury for 6 months, a young player they were hoping to play an important role.

14 first team players who's contracts are ending, 2 loans ending (Michy Batshuayi and Mateta), the manager leaving and two of their remaining players on long term injuries. 

All during a global pandemic, with not much sale value in the squad aside Zaha, who is going to be 29 in November. 

If they don't re-sign some of those players then their first team squad is going to have about 8 senior players left, at least half of whom are already into their 30s.  Their whole current first team squad only has 4 players under 25, and two of those have just picked up bad injuries. 

 

We have issues, but we have a solid first eleven with some gaps and contract issues, plus a few decent younger players. We are in a way superior position in comparison. 

 

Basically us, Newcastle, Wolves, Palace, Brighton and Burnley were in a group of shit but not as shit as the relegated clubs.  Out of that group Wolves have a new manager incoming so that is an unknown, Burnley are probably more cash strapped than us and also have a bit an aging squad, Palace are in a mess and Newcastle are Newcastle, they have a shit manager who struck lucky with a loan signing who had a purple patch and pushed them up the league.  Brighton are an unknown quantity, if they find a good striker they could easily push top 10, if they don't then they are likely to be down there again. 

Then you have Watford, Norwich, and one of Swansea or Brentford.  Can't see much coming from Watford to be honest, Norwich may be better than they were before in the league I reckon but there is talk of them losing their best players like Buendia so depends on how they invest, Brentford I think could do a Leeds if they came up as they are a well run club, you'd think Swansea would be favourites for relegation. 

So we need to recruit better than those clubs (I also reckon if Villa lose Grealish they will be down there as they sucked without him when he was injured) and arguably with our full fit first eleven probably have amongst the best first team out of those clubs IMO.  

Huge amount depends on Ings, if we have him (or can miraculously produce a recruitment gem to replace him) then it stands us in good stead as he's a stand out player for a bottom half PL team and you can see how Wolves missed Gimenez or how Villa missed Grealish how much those sort of players make an impact. 

Add in two decent first team signings and some more depth so we don't collapse with some injuries like we did after xmas and I think we can easily finish ahead of most of that group. 

Loads of other clubs around us have issues, managers going, injuries, out of contract players, important players potentially going, the bottom 12 ish teams of PL are a much of muchness to be honest. Big players staying fit and some key signings will make the difference. 

Seems like a decent analysis. And right about Ings - whichever of those 12 bottom clubs has a regular (and fit) goal scorer will almost certainly stay up. Although we could also do with conceding about 20 fewer goals. 

[SuperSAINT]

What would give us a boost (aside from signing good players) is to absolutely get our pre-season fitness spot on.

[sadoldgit]

2 hours ago, Pilchards said:

100% he would yes.

He certainly wouldn’t be playing with Redmond for starters.

Then he would play a better defensive line up where the two wing backs don’t bomb forward all the time leaving two slow centre backs to cover any breakaway.

Finally our players would play for 90 minutes and not just 45 minutes and be totally fucked at half time.

I could go on?

 

 

Please do. Perhaps you should be our new manager 😉

[JustinSFC]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Do you think that Tuchel could get more out of this squad over a full season?

Tuchel?

Are you for real?

You think Tuchel would lose 15 out of the last 21 and concede nearly 70 goals?

I'm not even mentioning the other obvious statistic.

[igsey]

6 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

Nope, obviously I didn't know that. 

They're fucked. No-one is paying top money for Zaha anymore.

 

Even if they did, Man United have a 25% sell on clause so that's a big chunk that Palace won't see.

Didn't they spend a big chunk on Liverpool's 6th choice CB with the AWB money too?

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Do you think that Tuchel could get more out of this squad over a full season?

Obviously he would yes.

I never, ever understand this dopey notion of "even Sir Alex/Jose/Pep/whoever couldn't do any better".

Well, of course they could.

That's why they get huge salaries and the biggest jobs. They are better.

Absolute madness.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I think Tuchel would definitely do a better job. Ancelotti I'm not so sure

[Minsk]

11 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Tuchel?

Are you for real?

You think Tuchel would lose 15 out of the last 21 and concede nearly 70 goals?

I'm not even mentioning the other obvious statistic.

Ah well, that's it then, all we have to do is persuade Tuchel to leave Chelsea for us. That should be easy enough, especially when he finds how much we pay compared to them....... 🙄

(Not referring to the two quoted above, but..) It is quite laughable how many people are on here complaining that we don't have the money to buy any decent in one players in one breath and then, with the next, saying we should pay off Ralph and the coaching staff and go buy off another manager and his coaching staff from another team. Funilly, though, I didn't see any of those same posters saying that prior to January. Fickle fans? Possibly.

I seem to recall a witch hunt on here after we finished 8th with Puel. Anyone care to remind me how we got on with his replacement? And the one after him? Be careful what you wish for people.

As for player sales: really hoping Norwich offer around £4-5m for Gunn; get whatever we can from Celtic for Elyounoussi - maybe another £4-5m? would even take £3m; Lemina to Palace/Newcastle/promoted team for £4M?; Valery to some French team for sub 500k; Long to Bournemouth on a free (as a sweetener for Danjuma coming the other way); maybe Redmond to Norwich for £7m? Hoedt to be loaned out again. All wishful thinking, I know.

Then with money saved on the salaries of the likes of Bertrand, McQueen and whoever else's contracts end, go sign a good LB (no idea who), a flexible defender to cover LB/RB (again, no idea who, but think we will once more chase the lad from Utd); Danjuma and a solid DM. (Would also like a better GK whilst offloading McCarthy if I were to be greedy.) 

Think we will again loan in 2 players. Probably one will be the covering fullback and the other will be an attacker (quite probably Minamino again, but hoping for someone better.)

[Pilchards]

44 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Please do. Perhaps you should be our new manager 😉

Better substitutions, stop switching the keepers, Not play Minimo because Klopp said he had too, Say Tella is the best prospect at the club after a cracking game but to drop him next match for Redmond.

Never have Bednarek anywhere near the team as his confidence is shot, drop Stephen’s after being our best defender in the last few games, Would make Ings wait his time to get back in the team after Adams scores for 5 games on the bounce, give the young Swiss lad a chance after his sending off vs Man Utd and finally make the team put in a better performance in the F A cup semi final as we were fucking shit.

I could go on about even more if I have too especially if I could mention those 68 goals conceded and two 9 NILS.

[UpweySaint]

7 hours ago, kjurwi said:

I don't want Augustinsson, but he would probobly do a decent job. Not a great left back in my opinion. 

He wouldn't excite me as a signing but he is an experienced pro possibly available at a reasonable price. We 100% could do better but might be able to do a decent job.

[JustinSFC]

2 hours ago, Minsk said:

Ah well, that's it then, all we have to do is persuade Tuchel to leave Chelsea for us. That should be easy enough, especially when he finds how much we pay compared to them....... 🙄

(Not referring to the two quoted above, but..) It is quite laughable how many people are on here complaining that we don't have the money to buy any decent in one players in one breath and then, with the next, saying we should pay off Ralph and the coaching staff and go buy off another manager and his coaching staff from another team. Funilly, though, I didn't see any of those same posters saying that prior to January. Fickle fans? Possibly.

I seem to recall a witch hunt on here after we finished 8th with Puel. Anyone care to remind me how we got on with his replacement? And the one after him? Be careful what you wish for people.

As for player sales: really hoping Norwich offer around £4-5m for Gunn; get whatever we can from Celtic for Elyounoussi - maybe another £4-5m? would even take £3m; Lemina to Palace/Newcastle/promoted team for £4M?; Valery to some French team for sub 500k; Long to Bournemouth on a free (as a sweetener for Danjuma coming the other way); maybe Redmond to Norwich for £7m? Hoedt to be loaned out again. All wishful thinking, I know.

Then with money saved on the salaries of the likes of Bertrand, McQueen and whoever else's contracts end, go sign a good LB (no idea who), a flexible defender to cover LB/RB (again, no idea who, but think we will once more chase the lad from Utd); Danjuma and a solid DM. (Would also like a better GK whilst offloading McCarthy if I were to be greedy.) 

Think we will again loan in 2 players. Probably one will be the covering fullback and the other will be an attacker (quite probably Minamino again, but hoping for someone better.)

What on earth are you going on about mate? 😅

[FarehamSaintJames]

Have Southampton announced a “released/retained list”?

I see a lot of other clubs are doing this currently.

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Have Southampton announced a “released/retained list”?

Not yet.

[Minsk]

3 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

What on earth are you going on about mate? 😅

It was meant to be a multiple quote, with a few people talking about Tuchel would do a better job here than Ralph has done the past few months. Somehow I coked it up and only your quote was added. So this wasn't aimed at you per se, just a 'what's the point of discussing this' thing as there is no way in the world we are going to replace Ralph with Tuchel. I then tried to divert an inane conversation about someone's dream (of having Tuchel leave Chelsea to come to us) into some more realistic player transfers that could, very possibly, happen.

I get that people are upset about our end to the season. I am as well. But I understand why Saints won't be spunking limited funds on sacking Ralph and head-hunting another manager. (Especially one we could never afford.) No one was complaining about Ralph prior the New Year. Indeed, most of the people now suggesting we get rid of him were crapping themselves that he would leave us whenever a manager left another club. Fickle fans. My take is that we get behind him and try to improve the squad the best we can. Then pray he stops with his crazy antics of dropping in form players whilst continuing with out of form ones. (I am still baffled as to why Forster and Stephens didn't start on Sunday; both have played far better than McCarthy and Bednarek recently. That said, had we taken a couple of the chances we had in the first 30 minutes, and gone on to win, we would all have been applauding him. So maybe he did set the team right and it was the players who let him down? Anyway, I digress. Just thought I would try to explain my earlier post.)

[Roo1976]

13 hours ago, Pilchards said:

Think it’s crazy we are looking at three worse teams than us for next season.

Get a decent manager in who gets the best out of the players and we will be looking upwards.

I bet Lampard is staggered how Tuchel managed to turn his team around in such a short time without buying any new players.

For the most of the squad they are a good team just failed to get it together for the icon.

[northam soul]

10 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Have Southampton announced a “released/retained list”?

I see a lot of other clubs are doing this currently.

They ran out of paper

[sadoldgit]

15 hours ago, CB Fry said:

Obviously he would yes.

I never, ever understand this dopey notion of "even Sir Alex/Jose/Pep/whoever couldn't do any better".

Well, of course they could.

That's why they get huge salaries and the biggest jobs. They are better.

Absolute madness.

There was an element of hyperbole in my comment but there is only so much you can do with a weak squad. Did Sheffield United, Fulham and WBA all go down because Wilder, Parker and BFS are crap managers or because the squads aren’t good enough? 

Despite all the bed wettery we were never in a relegation fight (as you pointed out) and one more win and we finish 12, solidly mid table. All thanks to an excellent first half of the season, granted, but mid table is mid table and we are a mid table club.

I still maintain that a better manager would have struggle under the circumstances we found ourselves in from Christmas onwards. I don’t believe that, in the same situation, someone like Tuchel would have got this squad into the top 8. A few places higher maybe, but that’s it. Any other manager might have got us a few places higher under the same circumstances. Any other manager might have got us relegated. 
 

Every game RH and the coaching staff have to turn a cow’s ear into a silk purse, something they were able to do in the first half of the season, but became harder once beset by injuries and dreadful decisions from the officials which left us short of confidence and ideas. Take away his only right back for a number of games his best defensive midfield player and give Tuchel Verstergaard, Bednarek and McCarthy (throw in Redmond and Stephens for good measure) and let’s see where he finishes.

He was sounded out for our job when Koeman left but we weren’t “big enough” for him according to his agent. Why have a sow’s ear when you can go for a silk purse?

So, we agree that another manager might achieve more with a weak squad, but we don’t have another manager, so we either support him and provide him with a better squad or bring in someone like “Red Adair” Alladyce who, apparently, can work wonders with poor players and in any circumstances (apart from at WBA).

I know which option I prefer.

[Sideways Jim]

Left backs hopefully were looking at.... 

 

Rico Henry

Romain Perraud

Adrian Truffert

Josh Doig

Javi Galan

Henry would most likely cost the most out of all of them, all good viable options although Truffert has a contract until 2025

[Turkish]

9 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

There was an element of hyperbole in my comment but there is only so much you can do with a weak squad. Did Sheffield United, Fulham and WBA all go down because Wilder, Parker and BFS are crap managers or because the squads aren’t good enough? 

Despite all the bed wettery we were never in a relegation fight (as you pointed out) and one more win and we finish 12, solidly mid table. All thanks to an excellent first half of the season, granted, but mid table is mid table and we are a mid table club.

I still maintain that a better manager would have struggle under the circumstances we found ourselves in from Christmas onwards. I don’t believe that, in the same situation, someone like Tuchel would have got this squad into the top 8. A few places higher maybe, but that’s it. Any other manager might have got us a few places higher under the same circumstances. Any other manager might have got us relegated. 
 

Every game RH and the coaching staff have to turn a cow’s ear into a silk purse, something they were able to do in the first half of the season, but became harder once beset by injuries and dreadful decisions from the officials which left us short of confidence and ideas. Take away his only right back for a number of games his best defensive midfield player and give Tuchel Verstergaard, Bednarek and McCarthy (throw in Redmond and Stephens for good measure) and let’s see where he finishes.

He was sounded out for our job when Koeman left but we weren’t “big enough” for him according to his agent. Why have a sow’s ear when you can go for a silk purse?

So, we agree that another manager might achieve more with a weak squad, but we don’t have another manager, so we either support him and provide him with a better squad or bring in someone like “Red Adair” Alladyce who, apparently, can work wonders with poor players and in any circumstances (apart from at WBA).

I know which option I prefer.

Why is it always the only option to either back the manager or end up bringing in Alladyce? There are plenty of other managers out there you know. Hassenhuttl isn't a bad manager but he's not the only manager in the world capable of getting this squad to lower midtable. 

[igsey]

3 hours ago, Sideways Jim said:

Left backs hopefully were looking at.... 

 

Rico Henry

Romain Perraud

Adrian Truffert

Josh Doig

Javi Galan

Henry would most likely cost the most out of all of them, all good viable options although Truffert has a contract until 2025

I've just seen on Reddit that Galan was statistically the third best LB in La Liga playing for Huesca, and has a €4m release clause now active since they were relegated. Surely the sort of deal we should be all over, but he's getting linked with the Big Boys™ so probably a non-starter for us.

[Saint_clark]

16 hours ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Have Southampton announced a “released/retained list”?

I see a lot of other clubs are doing this currently.

I thought only teams that had a large amount of senior players out of contract did that, with us it's basically just Bertrand?

[tajjuk]

20 hours ago, LaptopSaint said:

Seems like a decent analysis. And right about Ings - whichever of those 12 bottom clubs has a regular (and fit) goal scorer will almost certainly stay up. Although we could also do with conceding about 20 fewer goals. 

9 of those were in one game, Palace finished with a worse goal difference than us even without that horrible result and Newcastle finished above us only conceding 6 less, didn't have that horrible result and were criticised most of the season for being too defensive.

I don't think defensively we are that bad when the team is fit, issue we had is people were often not fit (Vestergaard and KWP were absent for quite a lot of games, Salisu missed 2/3rds of the season and Romeu was a big miss as he offers the best protection for the back 4) and we didn't have any quality cover, in some cases we had no cover AT ALL, which is just terrible planning really for a PL team with our budget, especially letting people like Valery go on loan.  

So that caused some problems, had we been luckier with injuries (and I will also say decisions) I think you can drop 10+ goals conceded right there.

The other big issue is fitness, we suck in the second half and fade and have been the worst at losing points from winning positions for the last two years I believe, which IMO comes down to 4 things -

1. Again we lack decent depth to bring fresh legs on, I get the impression Ralph does not trust a lot of our squad to perform and do what he wants. That can only be fixed with signings. 

2. There has to be some sort of fitness issue there as well, Leeds don't concede as many goals as us and are even more aggressive than us in pressing etc. This has to come down to the fitness coaches, physios, nutritionists etc. so clearly they need to do better. Possibly the rumoured shut cryo facilities played a role, but whatever the reasons if we are going to be a high pressing, high energy team we need the players the fittest they can be and more of them to last the 90 minutes. 

3. Lack of experience and nous I think, we are still a relatively young team and at times lack leadership (another reason again Vestergaard and Romeu were a big miss) we had a lot of players I would say still not fully comfortable with their game/the league etc. and I think when players are not fully comfortable with their role or their form they become a bit introverted and offer less to the team in a leadership and togetherness sense. So when we were flying high and doing well we had players like Romeu and Vestergaard showing their best form, JWP playing well, Ings fit and firing, etc. and those players playing well drag the others along and the whole team gets more confident. 

Fast forward to the terrible run, no Romeu, no Ings for a lot of it, Vestergaard missing for many games and struggling to re-find form, you then have people like Adams struggling with a goal drought, Stephens battling to get into the team, eradicate mistakes and often playing out of position, Minamino as a new player joining the group who didn't have much football, Salisu adjusting to the league and finding fitness when everyone else has played 20 plus matches, so not only are you lacking some of your better players, your remaining ones are struggling with their own issues and you get a disjointed team lacking confidence.  

4. We need to learn an ability to control games better, the 'lack of a plan B' criticism I think is someone merited but not in the way people use it, the way we play works and as we have seen it can work very well with the right players there, the issue more I have is when we are 2-0 up in a game we don't need to be playing at 100mph or trying to get another goal desperately, instead we should slow the game down, keep the ball, be a bit more compact and make the opposition find a way to beat us because at that point Plan A has worked, but now you need to see out the game.  Ralph has apparently been working on a more fluid defense to help us score more goals but they also IMO need to work on game management a bit better. 

 

Offensively we are pretty good, but we need to spread the the goals out more and we have the same issue we have had for about 4-5 years, we struggle to break down deep defensive teams and don't have much to unlock them, of course this is hard for all teams, but it's where I think we need an attacking mid who offers something a bit different and is less the pacey dribbler we have multiple (if not great) versions of, but someone who can pick clever passes. 

[waylander]

37 minutes ago, igsey said:

I've just seen on Reddit that Galan was statistically the third best LB in La Liga playing for Huesca, and has a €4m release clause now active since they were relegated. Surely the sort of deal we should be all over, but he's getting linked with the Big Boys™ so probably a non-starter for us.

Would he get a work permit?

[igsey]

9 minutes ago, waylander said:

Would he get a work permit?

Good question but I assume so, he's 26 and plays regularly in La Liga. Who knows though!

[Badger]

1 hour ago, igsey said:

I've just seen on Reddit that Galan was statistically the third best LB in La Liga playing for Huesca, and has a €4m release clause now active since they were relegated. Surely the sort of deal we should be all over, but he's getting linked with the Big Boys™ so probably a non-starter for us.

Think there's a ban on signing anyone by the name of "Javi", or perhaps that's solely on the forum and not the club.

[The Curse of St Mary's]

47 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

9 of those were in one game, Palace finished with a worse goal difference than us even without that horrible result and Newcastle finished above us only conceding 6 less, didn't have that horrible result and were criticised most of the season for being too defensive.

I don't think defensively we are that bad when the team is fit, issue we had is people were often not fit (Vestergaard and KWP were absent for quite a lot of games, Salisu missed 2/3rds of the season and Romeu was a big miss as he offers the best protection for the back 4) and we didn't have any quality cover, in some cases we had no cover AT ALL, which is just terrible planning really for a PL team with our budget, especially letting people like Valery go on loan.  

So that caused some problems, had we been luckier with injuries (and I will also say decisions) I think you can drop 10+ goals conceded right there.

The other big issue is fitness, we suck in the second half and fade and have been the worst at losing points from winning positions for the last two years I believe, which IMO comes down to 4 things -

1. Again we lack decent depth to bring fresh legs on, I get the impression Ralph does not trust a lot of our squad to perform and do what he wants. That can only be fixed with signings. 

2. There has to be some sort of fitness issue there as well, Leeds don't concede as many goals as us and are even more aggressive than us in pressing etc. This has to come down to the fitness coaches, physios, nutritionists etc. so clearly they need to do better. Possibly the rumoured shut cryo facilities played a role, but whatever the reasons if we are going to be a high pressing, high energy team we need the players the fittest they can be and more of them to last the 90 minutes. 

3. Lack of experience and nous I think, we are still a relatively young team and at times lack leadership (another reason again Vestergaard and Romeu were a big miss) we had a lot of players I would say still not fully comfortable with their game/the league etc. and I think when players are not fully comfortable with their role or their form they become a bit introverted and offer less to the team in a leadership and togetherness sense. So when we were flying high and doing well we had players like Romeu and Vestergaard showing their best form, JWP playing well, Ings fit and firing, etc. and those players playing well drag the others along and the whole team gets more confident. 

Fast forward to the terrible run, no Romeu, no Ings for a lot of it, Vestergaard missing for many games and struggling to re-find form, you then have people like Adams struggling with a goal drought, Stephens battling to get into the team, eradicate mistakes and often playing out of position, Minamino as a new player joining the group who didn't have much football, Salisu adjusting to the league and finding fitness when everyone else has played 20 plus matches, so not only are you lacking some of your better players, your remaining ones are struggling with their own issues and you get a disjointed team lacking confidence.  

4. We need to learn an ability to control games better, the 'lack of a plan B' criticism I think is someone merited but not in the way people use it, the way we play works and as we have seen it can work very well with the right players there, the issue more I have is when we are 2-0 up in a game we don't need to be playing at 100mph or trying to get another goal desperately, instead we should slow the game down, keep the ball, be a bit more compact and make the opposition find a way to beat us because at that point Plan A has worked, but now you need to see out the game.  Ralph has apparently been working on a more fluid defense to help us score more goals but they also IMO need to work on game management a bit better. 

 

Offensively we are pretty good, but we need to spread the the goals out more and we have the same issue we have had for about 4-5 years, we struggle to break down deep defensive teams and don't have much to unlock them, of course this is hard for all teams, but it's where I think we need an attacking mid who offers something a bit different and is less the pacey dribbler we have multiple (if not great) versions of, but someone who can pick clever passes. 

With regards to some facilities being closed during pandemic, surely same for every other team? Rules are rules unless other teams have either found a way round them or have simply breached the rules. 

I think the backroom staff need to have a rethink as our common second half collapse was more than a mere blip. Teams worked us out knowing we would be knackered and they took advantage of that plus Ralph's inability to change tactics / personnel for the better during games. 

[Appy]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

I thought only teams that had a large amount of senior players out of contract did that, with us it's basically just Bertrand?

Sims and Hesketh too? 
 

Technically “senior players”

Edited 26 May, 2021 by Appy

[Forester]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

9 of those were in one game, Palace finished with a worse goal difference than us even without that horrible result and Newcastle finished above us only conceding 6 less, didn't have that horrible result and were criticised most of the season for being too defensive.

I don't think defensively we are that bad when the team is fit, issue we had is people were often not fit (Vestergaard and KWP were absent for quite a lot of games, Salisu missed 2/3rds of the season and Romeu was a big miss as he offers the best protection for the back 4) and we didn't have any quality cover, in some cases we had no cover AT ALL, which is just terrible planning really for a PL team with our budget, especially letting people like Valery go on loan.  

So that caused some problems, had we been luckier with injuries (and I will also say decisions) I think you can drop 10+ goals conceded right there.

The other big issue is fitness, we suck in the second half and fade and have been the worst at losing points from winning positions for the last two years I believe, which IMO comes down to 4 things -

1. Again we lack decent depth to bring fresh legs on, I get the impression Ralph does not trust a lot of our squad to perform and do what he wants. That can only be fixed with signings. 

2. There has to be some sort of fitness issue there as well, Leeds don't concede as many goals as us and are even more aggressive than us in pressing etc. This has to come down to the fitness coaches, physios, nutritionists etc. so clearly they need to do better. Possibly the rumoured shut cryo facilities played a role, but whatever the reasons if we are going to be a high pressing, high energy team we need the players the fittest they can be and more of them to last the 90 minutes. 

3. Lack of experience and nous I think, we are still a relatively young team and at times lack leadership (another reason again Vestergaard and Romeu were a big miss) we had a lot of players I would say still not fully comfortable with their game/the league etc. and I think when players are not fully comfortable with their role or their form they become a bit introverted and offer less to the team in a leadership and togetherness sense. So when we were flying high and doing well we had players like Romeu and Vestergaard showing their best form, JWP playing well, Ings fit and firing, etc. and those players playing well drag the others along and the whole team gets more confident. 

Fast forward to the terrible run, no Romeu, no Ings for a lot of it, Vestergaard missing for many games and struggling to re-find form, you then have people like Adams struggling with a goal drought, Stephens battling to get into the team, eradicate mistakes and often playing out of position, Minamino as a new player joining the group who didn't have much football, Salisu adjusting to the league and finding fitness when everyone else has played 20 plus matches, so not only are you lacking some of your better players, your remaining ones are struggling with their own issues and you get a disjointed team lacking confidence.  

4. We need to learn an ability to control games better, the 'lack of a plan B' criticism I think is someone merited but not in the way people use it, the way we play works and as we have seen it can work very well with the right players there, the issue more I have is when we are 2-0 up in a game we don't need to be playing at 100mph or trying to get another goal desperately, instead we should slow the game down, keep the ball, be a bit more compact and make the opposition find a way to beat us because at that point Plan A has worked, but now you need to see out the game.  Ralph has apparently been working on a more fluid defense to help us score more goals but they also IMO need to work on game management a bit better. 

 

Offensively we are pretty good, but we need to spread the the goals out more and we have the same issue we have had for about 4-5 years, we struggle to break down deep defensive teams and don't have much to unlock them, of course this is hard for all teams, but it's where I think we need an attacking mid who offers something a bit different and is less the pacey dribbler we have multiple (if not great) versions of, but someone who can pick clever passes. 

Good post and agree with much of this.  However I do think we should more frequently play a 343 as our natural approach of full backs flying high is great to watch but inherently risky.  KWP and a new similar left back would fit into this very well, two DMS and sacrifice one of our two 10s/9s I think would be better balance.  Could still press well with wing backs and front three but would feel more like a 541 out of possession.

 

Think this would also get the best OFFENSIVELY from our ball playing centre backs, who actually are as good as most teams in possession these days.

[ally_uk]

I reckon we need to go back to basics stop looking for future prospects and get in some much needed experience. We need some leaders with grit and steel when the going gets tough because in all honesty our heads drop when under the cosh. 

Need to build a solid spine some big unit at the back and same in def / midfield I feel currently the two main issues are:

Midfield is to lightweight and powder puff gets overrun easy. 

For the pressing game Uncle Ralph wants to play our center backs need to have some form of mobility and pace they need to be able to transition quickly....... i'm sorry but our center backs having the turning circles of oil tankers the statistics don't lie folks either two 9-0s, goals being smashed in left right and center against us..... 

Forget the attacking players we need to build from the back and learn how to become hard to beat this includes actually bringing in a half decent keeper.

Coaching setup also needs addressing desperately I heard a rumour that Kelvin is instructing our strikers to finish?  Well that's half the problem then isn't it lol need a proper capable coaching team assembled. 

Highlights for me this season:   Tella, Phillips, Adams, Armstrong, Prowse for free kicks, Romeu, Salisu  possibly Ings when he is interested. 

Closing Thoughts: 

Sell Redmond for 5 seasons now we have had him run towards the opposition only for him to recycle the ball backwards surely we can aim higher than this?,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

 

 

[VectisSaint]

6 hours ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

With regards to some facilities being closed during pandemic, surely same for every other team? Rules are rules unless other teams have either found a way round them or have simply breached the rules. 

I think the backroom staff need to have a rethink as our common second half collapse was more than a mere blip. Teams worked us out knowing we would be knackered and they took advantage of that plus Ralph's inability to change tactics / personnel for the better during games. 

Not true. Teams have different facilities, at different locations, rules for use by the health authorities are devised on a case by case basis. I'm not entirely convinced that this was actually ever an issue, I'm sure things could have been done to mitigate, though perhaps financial constraints may have come into play. 

[The Curse of St Mary's]

11 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Not true. Teams have different facilities, at different locations, rules for use by the health authorities are devised on a case by case basis. I'm not entirely convinced that this was actually ever an issue, I'm sure things could have been done to mitigate, though perhaps financial constraints may have come into play. 

Not sure it be a case by case basis, I haven't come across any covid related rules which are case by case other than definition of essential travel.

 I'm sure other clubs have found ways round it whether that be through legitimate means I don't know. Saints being saints probably tried playing it straight down the middle. Not heard any other manager complain about lack of access to recovery facilities. Makes you wonder.

[ErwinK1961]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/15071799/southampton-edouard-celtic-transfer-swap-elyounoussi/

[SuperSAINT]

11 minutes ago, ErwinK1961 said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/15071799/southampton-edouard-celtic-transfer-swap-elyounoussi/

The worlds most speculative transfer link