Summer Transfer Window 2021

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Leach says he's out of our price range, would be a nice signing though from what I've seen. Don't want Cahill either, wouldn't be against kabak really. 

Kabak is relatively short for a centre back at 6 foot. Might have a good spring I guess.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

Do interceptions not count as a type of defending? 🤔

Doing the most successfully in the Premier League of any defender is a good thing for him isn't it? He was 22 ahead of 2nd place Ben White!

Possibly but the reason that his stats are high might have something to do with the fact that we were under the cosh for many games.

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Possibly but the reason that his stats are high might have something to do with the fact that we were under the cosh for many games.

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend. The most successful interceptions by a defender in the league shows one defensive skill he is good at.

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Kabak is relatively short for a centre back at 6 foot. Might have a good spring I guess.

Same height as Alderweireld, Sanchez, Bailley, Soyuncu, Lindelof, Stones apparently at 186cm (6'1''). Taller than Stephens, Tarkowski, Ben White. Should be fine tbh.

[Teddeer]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend. The most successful interceptions by a defender in the league shows one defensive skill he is good at.

As someone else quite rightly pointed out for this stat to be relevant we need to know the number of attempted interceptions to calculate a percentage.

[Teddeer]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

Same height as Alderweireld, Sanchez, Bailley, Soyuncu, Lindelof, Stones apparently at 186cm (6'1''). Taller than Stephens, Tarkowski, Ben White. Should be fine tbh.

Good point well made.

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

As someone else quite rightly pointed out for this stat to be relevant we need to know the number of attempted interceptions to calculate a percentage.

I wondered if anyone would notice that he conveniently skipped over that point

[Matthew Le God]

12 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

As someone else quite rightly pointed out for this stat to be relevant we need to know the number of attempted interceptions to calculate a percentage.

 

9 minutes ago, trousers said:

I wondered if anyone would notice that he conveniently skipped over that point

Doesn't really matter when he is 22 clear of 2nd place for successful ones. It is clearly a defensive skill he can do.

[Baird of the land]

Always thought Bednarek is a decent reader of the game, so not surprised he's got good interception stats.

 

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Doesn't really matter when he is 22 clear of 2nd place for successful ones. It is clearly a defensive skill he can do.

yes it does

[trousers]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Doesn't really matter when he is 22 clear of 2nd place for successful ones. It is clearly a defensive skill he can do.

No-one is saying he can't make interceptions, we're just interested in how good he is at it based on % success rate.

Over the last 12 months, I've hit the fairway off the tee 84 times. Does that make me good at driving a golf ball off the tee or do you need to know how many times I missed the fairway too in order to make a judgement?

Edited 13 August, 2021 by trousers

[CityRanger]

36 minutes ago, TWar said:

That doesn't make sense. If he was getting caught out and having to scramble that would be "tackles", not interceptions. For an interception to happen he must be in the right position, that's basically the only prerequisite. 

He’s always on his arse at near post sliding to ‘intercept’ the cross (not a tackle) after they’ve got in behind or around him. Looks great for the cameras but shouldn’t be in that situation in first place. Just my observation. He’s not awful but not as good as some make out imo. If he could improve his positioning would be helpful.

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, CityRanger said:

He’s always on his arse at near post sliding to ‘intercept’ the cross (not a tackle) after they’ve got in behind or around him. Looks great for the cameras but shouldn’t be in that situation in first place. Just my observation. He’s not awful but not as good as some make out imo. If he could improve his positioning would be helpful.

Funnelling players wide and then blocking balls when they come in is how we defend. It isn't a mistake showing them outside and then blocking the ball in, it's deliberate.

[Appy]

14 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

Doesn't really matter when he is 22 clear of 2nd place for successful ones. It is clearly a defensive skill he can do.

Stats like that are irrelevant, this isn’t your game. 
 

Anyone with eyes can see he’s been a big part of why we’ve had such a poor defence over the last 2-3 years. 

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

So, what are the potential options for Saints to replace Vestergaard? Here are some of the possibilities including some of the names that have been mentioned and a couple that haven't:

• Nat Phillips, Liverpool - Age 24 - Strongly linked over recent days but rumours now say he is not currently of interest.
• Duje Caleta-Car - Age 24, Croatian international. Plays for Marseille. Two years left on current contract.
• Ozan Kabak - Age 21, Turkish international. Plays for Schalke 04.
• Nikola Milenković - Age 23. Plays for Fiorentina; Serbian international. One year left on contract.
• Boubakar Kouyate, Metz - age 24 - linked with Saints recently. Also linked with Newcastle and Norwich.
• Flavius Daniliuc - 20 years old and plays for OGC Nice in France. Has been linked with Saints and West Ham.
• Thomas Delaney - age 29, Borussia Dortmund. Defensive midfielder. Now linked with a move to Sevilla.
• Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Arsenal - Age 23, usually left back or central midfield - flexible to play in a range of positions.
• Rob Holding - age 25, has dropped down the pecking order at Arsenal following the signing of White. Had been linked to Leicester.
• James Tarkowski - age 28, only one year of contract left at Burnley.
• Phil Jones - still on the books at Man Utd and only 29 but has had a career blighted by injury.
• Issa Diop, West Ham - age 24, we were linked with him a few weeks ago.
• Japhet Tanganga, Spurs - Age 22, he has been mentioned as possible acquisition, but has also been linked with a loan to Galatasaray.
• Omar Colley - Sampdoria centre back aged 28 yrs and reportedly of interest to Brighton, West Ham and Leeds at present.
• Philippe Sandler - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and Dutch, with only a year left on his contract. Has been training with first team following return from injury sustained on loan at Anderlecht last season.
• Erik Palmer-Brown - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and US international, with only a year left on his contract. Potentially about to move to Serie A side Venezia.
• Jason Denayer - Belgian International, age 26, only a year left on contract with Lyon.
• Andreas Hanche-Olsen - Age 24, Norwegian International, playing for Gent in Belgium. Two years left on contract with Gent.
• Gary Cahill - age 35 and available for free. Surely he is too old??
• Takehiro Tomiyasu - Age 22, plays for Bologna and Japan. Apparently about to be signed by Spurs.

Any others that I have missed?

 

 

[Saint Matty 76]

I'd be very happy with Kabak (and a DM).

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

So, what are the potential options for Saints to replace Vestergaard? Here are some of the possibilities including some of the names that have been mentioned and a couple that haven't:

• Nat Phillips, Liverpool - Age 24 - Strongly linked over recent days but rumours now say he is not currently of interest.
• Duje Caleta-Car - Age 24, Croatian international. Plays for Marseille. Two years left on current contract.
• Ozan Kabak - Age 21, Turkish international. Plays for Schalke 04.
• Nikola Milenković - Age 23. Plays for Fiorentina; Serbian international. One year left on contract.
• Boubakar Kouyate, Metz - age 24 - linked with Saints recently. Also linked with Newcastle and Norwich.
• Flavius Daniliuc - 20 years old and plays for OGC Nice in France. Has been linked with Saints and West Ham.
• Thomas Delaney - age 29, Borussia Dortmund. Defensive midfielder. Now linked with a move to Sevilla.
• Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Arsenal - Age 23, usually left back or central midfield - flexible to play in a range of positions.
• Rob Holding - age 25, has dropped down the pecking order at Arsenal following the signing of White. Had been linked to Leicester.
• James Tarkowski - age 28, only one year of contract left at Burnley.
• Phil Jones - still on the books at Man Utd and only 29 but has had a career blighted by injury.
• Issa Diop, West Ham - age 24, we were linked with him a few weeks ago.
• Japhet Tanganga, Spurs - Age 22, he has been mentioned as possible acquisition, but has also been linked with a loan to Galatasaray.
• Omar Colley - Sampdoria centre back aged 28 yrs and reportedly of interest to Brighton, West Ham and Leeds at present.
• Philippe Sandler - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and Dutch, with only a year left on his contract. Has been training with first team following return from injury sustained on loan at Anderlecht last season.
• Erik Palmer-Brown - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and US international, with only a year left on his contract. Potentially about to move to Serie A side Venezia.
• Jason Denayer - Belgian International, age 26, only a year left on contract with Lyon.
• Andreas Hanche-Olsen - Age 24, Norwegian International, playing for Gent in Belgium. Two years left on contract with Gent.
• Gary Cahill - age 35 and available for free. Surely he is too old??
• Takehiro Tomiyasu - Age 22, plays for Bologna and Japan. Apparently about to be signed by Spurs.

Any others that I have missed?

 

 

Top ones on there would be Caleta-Car, Kouyate, Tomiyasu (already gone though), Diop (not happening imo), and Tarkowski (never happening). Don't want Cahill, Phillips, Jones. Don't know about a few others.

[warwicksaint]

Jason Denayer would be a class signing, he’s quick and has had a shed load of experience in champions league and nationally for Belgium. Also can play CDM

[saint_stevo]

Eric Dier, anyone?

[Lee On Solent Saint]

8 minutes ago, saint_stevo said:

Eric Dier, anyone?

Don't get why everyone is against Dier. He would be a massive upgrade on anything we have at the moment. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Having a defender who can actually defend would be nice, but it isn't very fashionable at the moment.

You’re a dinosaur mate. It’s all about Xg’s , ISLM’s  & how many completed passes you make. If you don’t rate highly on the play station stats, you can’t defend bro. 
 

I never thought I’d see the day when someone criticises a centre half by saying he’s a “head it & kick it” defender 

What’s next, not wanting a striker because all he does is put the ball in the net. FFS. That keepers shite, all he does is stop the ball going in the goal. 

[tajjuk]

12 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Don't get why everyone is against Dier. He would be a massive upgrade on anything we have at the moment. 

Because he's not very good? I mean Spurs were crap last season and he was a mainstay at the back for them and IIRC made some high profile errors. They lost to Leeds in one game 3-0 I think and Dier was basically at fault for all the goals. 

He's ponderous in possession, isn't particularly quick, is slow to react and seems to lose concentration a lot. 

For the price Spurs would want and the wages he is on we can do much much better. 

[Lee On Solent Saint]

4 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Because he's not very good? I mean Spurs were crap last season and he was a mainstay at the back for them and IIRC made some high profile errors. They lost to Leeds in one game 3-0 I think and Dier was basically at fault for all the goals. 

He's ponderous in possession, isn't particularly quick, is slow to react and seems to lose concentration a lot. 

For the price Spurs would want and the wages he is on we can do much much better. 

You'd rather have Bednerak and Salisu in ahead of him? I agree on the wages and fee front, but there is no way he wouldn't be getting a game here. Huge upgrade on both of those, even if Salisu is still a bit of an unknown quantity. 

[SuperSAINT]

49 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

So, what are the potential options for Saints to replace Vestergaard? Here are some of the possibilities including some of the names that have been mentioned and a couple that haven't:

• Nat Phillips, Liverpool - Age 24 - Strongly linked over recent days but rumours now say he is not currently of interest.
• Duje Caleta-Car - Age 24, Croatian international. Plays for Marseille. Two years left on current contract.
• Ozan Kabak - Age 21, Turkish international. Plays for Schalke 04.
• Nikola Milenković - Age 23. Plays for Fiorentina; Serbian international. One year left on contract.
• Boubakar Kouyate, Metz - age 24 - linked with Saints recently. Also linked with Newcastle and Norwich.
• Flavius Daniliuc - 20 years old and plays for OGC Nice in France. Has been linked with Saints and West Ham.
• Thomas Delaney - age 29, Borussia Dortmund. Defensive midfielder. Now linked with a move to Sevilla.
• Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Arsenal - Age 23, usually left back or central midfield - flexible to play in a range of positions.
• Rob Holding - age 25, has dropped down the pecking order at Arsenal following the signing of White. Had been linked to Leicester.
• James Tarkowski - age 28, only one year of contract left at Burnley.
• Phil Jones - still on the books at Man Utd and only 29 but has had a career blighted by injury.
• Issa Diop, West Ham - age 24, we were linked with him a few weeks ago.
• Japhet Tanganga, Spurs - Age 22, he has been mentioned as possible acquisition, but has also been linked with a loan to Galatasaray.
• Omar Colley - Sampdoria centre back aged 28 yrs and reportedly of interest to Brighton, West Ham and Leeds at present.
• Philippe Sandler - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and Dutch, with only a year left on his contract. Has been training with first team following return from injury sustained on loan at Anderlecht last season.
• Erik Palmer-Brown - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and US international, with only a year left on his contract. Potentially about to move to Serie A side Venezia.
• Jason Denayer - Belgian International, age 26, only a year left on contract with Lyon.
• Andreas Hanche-Olsen - Age 24, Norwegian International, playing for Gent in Belgium. Two years left on contract with Gent.
• Gary Cahill - age 35 and available for free. Surely he is too old??
• Takehiro Tomiyasu - Age 22, plays for Bologna and Japan. Apparently about to be signed by Spurs.

Any others that I have missed?

 

 

Great list! Top work, @SaintJackoInHurworth

[TWar]

11 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’re a dinosaur mate. It’s all about Xg’s , ISLM’s  & how many completed passes you make. If you don’t rate highly on the play station stats, you can’t defend bro. 
 

I never thought I’d see the day when someone criticises a centre half by saying he’s a “head it & kick it” defender 

What’s next, not wanting a striker because all he does is put the ball in the net. FFS. That keepers shite, all he does is stop the ball going in the goal. 

This might shock you but sometimes footballers need to be good at more than one thing...

I know "ball goes in goal" is about your level of comprehension but being able defend isn't the only thing a CB needs to be good at. Passing, starting attacks, positional awareness, pace, intelligence, flexibility are all handy traits for a CB to have rather than just being good at putting a foot in and being good in the air.

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

You'd rather have Bednerak and Salisu in ahead of him? I agree on the wages and fee front, but there is no way he wouldn't be getting a game here. Huge upgrade on both of those, even if Salisu is still a bit of an unknown quantity. 

100% I'd probably rather have Stephens over him, they are pretty level, he really really isn't very good.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by TWar

[SNOWY]

55 minutes ago, SaintJackoInHurworth said:

So, what are the potential options for Saints to replace Vestergaard? Here are some of the possibilities including some of the names that have been mentioned and a couple that haven't:

• Nat Phillips, Liverpool - Age 24 - Strongly linked over recent days but rumours now say he is not currently of interest.
• Duje Caleta-Car - Age 24, Croatian international. Plays for Marseille. Two years left on current contract.
• Ozan Kabak - Age 21, Turkish international. Plays for Schalke 04.
• Nikola Milenković - Age 23. Plays for Fiorentina; Serbian international. One year left on contract.
• Boubakar Kouyate, Metz - age 24 - linked with Saints recently. Also linked with Newcastle and Norwich.
• Flavius Daniliuc - 20 years old and plays for OGC Nice in France. Has been linked with Saints and West Ham.
• Thomas Delaney - age 29, Borussia Dortmund. Defensive midfielder. Now linked with a move to Sevilla.
• Ainsley Maitland-Niles, Arsenal - Age 23, usually left back or central midfield - flexible to play in a range of positions.
• Rob Holding - age 25, has dropped down the pecking order at Arsenal following the signing of White. Had been linked to Leicester.
• James Tarkowski - age 28, only one year of contract left at Burnley.
• Phil Jones - still on the books at Man Utd and only 29 but has had a career blighted by injury.
• Issa Diop, West Ham - age 24, we were linked with him a few weeks ago.
• Japhet Tanganga, Spurs - Age 22, he has been mentioned as possible acquisition, but has also been linked with a loan to Galatasaray.
• Omar Colley - Sampdoria centre back aged 28 yrs and reportedly of interest to Brighton, West Ham and Leeds at present.
• Philippe Sandler - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and Dutch, with only a year left on his contract. Has been training with first team following return from injury sustained on loan at Anderlecht last season.
• Erik Palmer-Brown - Man City reserve centre back, aged 24 and US international, with only a year left on his contract. Potentially about to move to Serie A side Venezia.
• Jason Denayer - Belgian International, age 26, only a year left on contract with Lyon.
• Andreas Hanche-Olsen - Age 24, Norwegian International, playing for Gent in Belgium. Two years left on contract with Gent.
• Gary Cahill - age 35 and available for free. Surely he is too old??
• Takehiro Tomiyasu - Age 22, plays for Bologna and Japan. Apparently about to be signed by Spurs.

Any others that I have missed?

 

 

Flavius Daniliuc would be my bet, our type of signing

[tajjuk]

7 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

You'd rather have Bednerak and Salisu in ahead of him? I agree on the wages and fee front, but there is no way he wouldn't be getting a game here. Huge upgrade on both of those, even if Salisu is still a bit of an unknown quantity. 

Salisu at least has potential to be good and I don't think has been that bad, he was the leading young defender in Spain in the season before we signed him and performed excellently against Madrid and Barca IIRC, he also seems to have pace to recover and get back. I think he'll be good this year and Bednerak and Dier is a much of a muchness imo.

He is just not very good, always thought he was awful in centre-mid far too slow on the ball, but at the same time he is simply not good enough defensively to be a centre-back. Jack of all trades master of none. 

I don't see how a guy who Spurs are actively trying to sell, who had one of their poorest seasons for like a decade last year, and made loads of defensive mistakes, many of which were HIS, to the point they have gone out and spent £50 million on a new centre-back as a priority to basically replace him, is a 'huge upgrade'. 

Edited 13 August, 2021 by tajjuk

[TWar]

Just now, tajjuk said:

Salisu at least has potential to be good and I don't think has been that bad, he was the leading young defender in Spain in the season before we signed him and performed excellently against Madrid and Barca IIRC, he also seems to have pace to recover and get back. I think he'll be good this year and Bednerak and Dier is a much of a muchness imo.

He is just not very good, always thought he was awful in centre-mid far too slow on the ball, but at the same time he is simply not good enough to be a centre-back. Jack of all trades master of none. 

I don't see how a guy who Spurs are actively trying to sell, who had one of their poorest seasons for like a decade last year, and made loads of defensive mistakes, many of which were HIS, who they have gone out and spent £50 million on a new centre-back as a priority, is a 'huge upgrade'. 

On top of this, they are trying to sign Tomayasu to replace him. That's the level of player we should be targeting, not the dross he is displacing. And we can afford it too with the money we have left.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Salisu at least has potential to be good and I don't think has been that bad, he was the leading young defender in Spain in the season before we signed him and performed excellently against Madrid and Barca IIRC, he also seems to have pace to recover and get back. I think he'll be good this year and Bednerak and Dier is a much of a muchness imo.

He is just not very good, always thought he was awful in centre-mid far too slow on the ball, but at the same time he is simply not good enough defensively to be a centre-back. Jack of all trades master of none. 

I don't see how a guy who Spurs are actively trying to sell, who had one of their poorest seasons for like a decade last year, and made loads of defensive mistakes, many of which were HIS, to the point they have gone out and spent £50 million on a new centre-back as a priority to basically replace him, is a 'huge upgrade'. 

What? His stats are sick bro

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Turkish said:

What? His stats are sick bro

what are his interception stats? 

[Turkish]

Just now, skintsaint said:

what are his interception stats? 

Not has good as Bednareks. He made 44 interceptions out of 45 attempted interceptions.

[beatlesaint]

I think turning our nose up at current Liverpool and to a slighlty lesser degree Spurs defenders, given our bloody rabble, is a bit ironic and mis-placed tbh

 

I mean if you havent worked out that we are hardly in the position to pick and choose what we get by now then you really are supporting the wrong club.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by beatlesaint

[saintmonkey1979]

Just found this re: Bednarek. Decent overview, but not sure how accurate it is

 

https://one-versus-one.com/en/players/Jan-Bednarek

[TWar]

17 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

what are his interception stats? 

He gets 0.78 interceptions a game, Vestergaard (1.4), Bednarek (2.3), Stephens (1.5) and Salisu (1.7) all get off significantly more. See my earlier comment on why saints defenders might have more interceptions though. He is lower on tackles, recoveries, aerial duel %, and tackle % than atleast two of our existing centerbacks for each metric, dead bottom for recoveries and aerial duels. One thing he does top is "errors leading to chances" which he is top of with Stephens.

Dier is dire.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by TWar

[CB Fry]

12 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I think turning our nose up at current Liverpool and to a slighlty lesser degree Spurs defenders, given our bloody rabble, is a bit ironic and mis-placed tbh

 

I mean if you havent worked out that we are hardly in the position to pick and choose what we get by now then you really are supporting the wrong club.

Odd. Every player at Liverpool is better than what we've got? 

How come Lemina was so shit then? He came from Juventus and they're, like, loads bigger than us.

[beatlesaint]

3 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Odd. Every player at Liverpool is better than what we've got? 

How come Lemina was so shit then? He came from Juventus and they're, like, loads bigger than us.

How the fuck have you dragged Lemina and Juventus into a discussion about defenders ? 😂

Of course not, we all know Bednarek is better than VVD !!!

[TWar]

28 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

I think turning our nose up at current Liverpool and to a slighlty lesser degree Spurs defenders, given our bloody rabble, is a bit ironic and mis-placed tbh

 

I mean if you havent worked out that we are hardly in the position to pick and choose what we get by now then you really are supporting the wrong club.

This sort of attitude is how clubs like Bournemouth and Sheffield united get relegated after spending stupid money on the likes of Brewster, Ibe, and Solanke. Being at a big club does not mean you are good, in fact when Liverpool sell squad players they seem to pretty universally flop, Ings excluded and maybe someone else I'm forgetting. There are good deals to be found if you scout right like KWP, Romeu, Zaha, Ake, Lamptey but it is by no means a stamp of quality.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by TWar

[beatlesaint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

This sort of attitude is how clubs like Bournemouth and Sheffield united get relegated after spending stupid money on the likes of Brewster, Ibe, and Solanke. Being at a big club does not mean you are good, in fact when Liverpool sell squad players they seem to pretty universally flop, Ings excluded and maybe someone else I'm forgetting. There are good deals to be found if you scout right like KWP, Romeu, Zaha, Ake, Lamptey if you scout big clubs right but it is by no means a stamp of quality.

key phrase youve put in there is "stupid money". We arent in a position to spend stupid money so that situation isnt likely to arise.

[saintwbu]

It’s amazing how many people think because a player has played for a so called ‘big’ club, they must be good. This must be why Liverpool are able to sell all their shite at ridiculous prices whilst we can’t give our flops away. 

[TWar]

Just now, beatlesaint said:

key phrase youve put in there is "stupid money". We arent in a position to spend stupid money so that situation isnt likely to arise.

I personally think the £15m Liverpool want for Nat Phillips after a poor half season in the prem and a poor half season in the german second tier would be a bigger rip off than most listed. Absolutely mental, no wonder we moved on. Dier is dogshite imo, shouldn't be worth more than about £5m and they'd probably ask for like £20m so that is very silly too.

Luckily we aren't the "sign flops from big boys" sort of side, we are the "take to speculative a punt on unproven talent" types so we will steer well clear of both with any luck.

[mcbendy]

I don't think it's fair to hold our centre backs solely responsible for the number of goals that we conceded last season. The whole team has to be 'on it' for the system to work. If the two forwards, two 'tens', fullbacks and DMs press high up the pitch but fail to win the ball or force the opponents back (i.e. if the opponents play through our press) then suddenly our two centre backs are badly exposed. How many times did we see them either dragged out wide to someone who had run in behind one of our fullbacks, or trying to play offside with a very high defensive line (e.g. the Spurs game...), and/or chasing desperately back towards goal? It's not like they, or most of our DMs, have the pace to recover. In the first half of last season we did it brilliantly and we had 8 clean sheets. In the second half we were poor, and I think that was more about the level of the whole team and less about any change in the performance of the CBs. I also wonder if our opponents worked us out and figured out how to beat the press more often. Personally I rate Bednarek. Salisu looks like he suits our system better, as he has pace which clearly JV didn't have. Salisu still looks a bit raw - I can see him giving the ball away in dangerous situations this season - but I also think we'll see positive qualities from him.

[beatlesaint]

4 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

It’s amazing how many people think because a player has played for a so called ‘big’ club, they must be good. This must be why Liverpool are able to sell all their shite at ridiculous prices whilst we can’t give our flops away. 

Oh ffs, look I'm talking about a player that the Liverpool supporters seem to rate, like them or loathe them the majority of their fans know their football.  Yet heres our experts saying "oh no, hes crap, worse than Vestergaard, only heads or kicks the ball away" based on very little. Anyway as it seems we arent in for him its irrelevant but if he does come here lets judge on what we see then. VVD didnt get the most glowing references on here when he came from Celtic I seem to recall.   

[TWar]

1 minute ago, mcbendy said:

I don't think it's fair to hold our centre backs solely responsible for the number of goals that we conceded last season. The whole team has to be 'on it' for the system to work. If the two forwards, two 'tens', fullbacks and DMs press high up the pitch but fail to win the ball or force the opponents back (i.e. if the opponents play through our press) then suddenly our two centre backs are badly exposed. How many times did we see them either dragged out wide to someone who had run in behind one of our fullbacks, or trying to play offside with a very high defensive line (e.g. the Spurs game...), and/or chasing desperately back towards goal? It's not like they, or most of our DMs, have the pace to recover. In the first half of last season we did it brilliantly and we had 8 clean sheets. In the second half we were poor, and I think that was more about the level of the whole team and less about any change in the performance of the CBs. I also wonder if our opponents worked us out and figured out how to beat the press more often. Personally I rate Bednarek. Salisu looks like he suits our system better, as he has pace which clearly JV didn't have. Salisu still looks a bit raw - I can see him giving the ball away in dangerous situations this season - but I also think we'll see positive qualities from him.

Very good point here. Defending isn't just on defenders, that's why Ralph always talks about how important it is for 10's and forwards to be good "against the ball". Injuries really messed up those automisms and brought in significantly worse people against the ball all over the pitch.

[hans gruber]

45 minutes ago, TWar said:

100% I'd probably rather have Stephens over him, they are pretty level, he really really isn't very good.

I would rather have Callum chambers back than Dier.

Dier is no good

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Oh ffs, look I'm talking about a player that the Liverpool supporters seem to rate, like them or loathe them the majority of their fans know their football.  Yet heres our experts saying "oh no, hes crap, worse than Vestergaard, only heads or kicks the ball away" based on very little. Anyway as it seems we arent in for him its irrelevant but if he does come here lets judge on what we see then. VVD didnt get the most glowing references on here when he came from Celtic I seem to recall.   

Seriously? I think Liverpool supporters are idiots who way overrate their own players, it wasn't too long ago I remember them saying Sterling leaving didn't matter as they have Ibe, or calling Karius the best keeper in the league. They are an especially arrogant fanbase who way overrate their own lot, like a lot of fanbases especially with academy lads like Nat.

Also it's not based on very little, we watched him for half a season, I'd wager thats more than our fans see of most of our targets. This was his only half season in a remotely competitive setting so I'd wager we know about as much as is possible to know as an external fan who doesn't follow their youth set up or German second tier football.

Finally I remember Celtic rating the hell out of VvD so I'm not sure I agree on that one.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by TWar

[TWar]

1 minute ago, hans gruber said:

I would rather have Callum chambers back than Dier.

Dier is no good

Same, Chambers is a decent player and versatile too. I dunno if he'd be an improvement on Bednarek but I wouldn't be actively against it as a depth option unlike Dier.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

Salisu at least has potential to be good and I don't think has been that bad, he was the leading young defender in Spain in the season before we signed him and performed excellently against Madrid and Barca IIRC, he also seems to have pace to recover and get back. I think he'll be good this year and Bednerak and Dier is a much of a muchness imo.

He is just not very good, always thought he was awful in centre-mid far too slow on the ball, but at the same time he is simply not good enough defensively to be a centre-back. Jack of all trades master of none. 

I don't see how a guy who Spurs are actively trying to sell, who had one of their poorest seasons for like a decade last year, and made loads of defensive mistakes, many of which were HIS, to the point they have gone out and spent £50 million on a new centre-back as a priority to basically replace him, is a 'huge upgrade'. 

Fair enough. Everyone has differing opinions about a particular player. I don't routinely watch Spurs that much, everytime I have seen him he seems to be a steady performer. Doubt that he would be on our target list anyway.

[igsey]

Sergio Romero's move to Granada has collapsed 👀

[SuperSAINT]

7 minutes ago, igsey said:

Sergio Romero's move to Granada has collapsed 👀

1 season too early.