Summer Transfer Window 2021

[TWar]

Something to look forward to

[badgerx16]

9 hours ago, SaintBitterne said:

Is Vestergaard's much better? Just curious.

Bednarek averages 1.5 per game, Vestergaard is 1.4

[VictiAbNonem]

Seems a little strange to me that Leicester have bought two of the defenders they put nine goals past

[TWar]

Just now, VictiAbNonem said:

Seems a little strange to me that Leicester have bought two of the defenders they put nine goals past

That's because, all jokes aside, that was kind of on Gunn mostly. They had an xG of like 4.1, Gunn just had an all time howler. 

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, VictiAbNonem said:

Seems a little strange to me that Leicester have bought two of the defenders they put nine goals past

They didn't put 9 past Bertie, he was sent off after the first.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by badgerx16

[TWar]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

They didn't put 9 past Bertie, he was sent off after the first.

Vest only played half too iirc

[Harry_SFC]

48 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

To me Phillips is just a head it and kick it defender. No other outstanding attributes. I’d be very disappointed if he’s the one we are trying for, personally. 

Have you even watched him or are you just making that assumption based on how he looks? He would be our best defender on the ball IMO. He has some very good attributes (passing, heading, positioning) he's just very slow. 

Edited 13 August, 2021 by Harry_SFC

[Ed Rooney]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

To me Phillips is just a head it and kick it defender. No other outstanding attributes. I’d be very disappointed if he’s the one we are trying for, personally. 

It would make a change for us to have a defender that wins headers and wins tackles, rather than the soft shite we have had to put up with. I haven’t seen enough live performances from Phillips to comment on what he is, but if he is a tough defender who can win aerial battles, then I personally wouldn’t be overly disappointed. 

[warwicksaint]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

To me Phillips is just a head it and kick it defender. No other outstanding attributes. I’d be very disappointed if he’s the one we are trying for, personally. 

Similar to someone like Ben Mee at Burnley? Yet they always have one of the best defences in the league outside of the top 6. Never necessarily a bad thing

[Turkish]

Just now, warwicksaint said:

Similar to someone like Ben Mee at Burnley? Yet they always have one of the best defences in the league outside of the top 6. Never necessarily a bad thing

Having a defender who can actually defend would be nice, but it isn't very fashionable at the moment.

[Wade Garrett]

6 minutes ago, Ed Rooney said:

It would make a change for us to have a defender that wins headers and wins tackles, rather than the soft shite we have had to put up with. I haven’t seen enough live performances from Phillips to comment on what he is, but if he is a tough defender who can win aerial battles, then I personally wouldn’t be overly disappointed. 

Quite right.  I couldn't give a monkeys if he doesn't play 40 yard diagonal balls.  He is a defender.

[warwicksaint]

Just now, Turkish said:

Having a defender who can actually defend would be nice, but it isn't very fashionable at the moment.

Agreed. I take the view i want my defender to be able to defend first, then they can play all the fancy passing they like, but their main job is to stop the ball ending up in the back of the net

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, warwicksaint said:

Agreed. I take the view i want my defender to be able to defend first, then they can play all the fancy passing they like, but their main job is to stop the ball ending up in the back of the net

not being able to ping 50 yard cross field balls didn't seem to harm Terry or Vidic. Look at our lot, we rarely talk about their defensive ability, it's always all about how far they can pass it or how good they are on the ball. Defend first anything else is a bonus. In any case any professional football should be able to make a 20 yard forward pass under no pressure when the whole game is being played in front of them.

[Matthew Le God]

"Liverpool defender Nat Phillips is a reported transfer target but is not thought to be an option Saints are considering at this present time.

Former Liverpool loanee Ozan Kabak, free agent Gary Cahill and Marseille defender Duje Caleta-Car are amongst the players thought to be available to the club this summer - but it is expected that Caleta-Car may command a fee outside of the club's price range."

 

 

Edited 13 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[AlexLaw76]

Just now, Turkish said:

not being able to ping 50 yard cross field balls didn't seem to harm Terry or Vidic. Look at our lot, we rarely talk about their defensive ability, it's always all about how far they can pass it or how good they are on the ball. Defend first anything else is a bonus. In any case any professional football should be able to make a 20 yard forward pass under no pressure when the whole game is being played in front of them.

Also, if they are left or right footed

[TWar]

Nat Phillips not a target right now, says Leach. Thank god for that! 

[Nolan]

Caleta Car is also an ICM stellar sports player. (along with A. Armstrong and JWP) 

They'll know price on that already...

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Nolan said:

Caleta Car is also an ICM stellar sports player. (along with A. Armstrong and JWP) 

They'll know price on that already...

Leach says he's out of our price range, would be a nice signing though from what I've seen. Don't want Cahill either, wouldn't be against kabak really. 

[Doctoroncall]

12 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Thought it would be interesting to post some stats from a fantasy footie site. I know none of this is gospel and there is a difference being a defender in a Liverpool side vs a Saints one, but might be of interest to some

 

 

From who scored stats:

Phillips finished last season as our best rated centre-back in the Premier League (7.29), with no defender winning more aerial duels per game (5.6).

[trousers]

10 minutes ago, TWar said:

Nat Phillips not a target right now, says Leach. Thank god for that! 

Not "right now" but could be "tomorrow" (for example). 

[saintwbu]

I agree it’ll be nice to have a defender who can properly defend - but the problem is if you have a defender who can defend but isn’t great on the ball, and you then ask him to focus heavily on using the ball, it tends to end pretty badly. See Bednarek, for example.

[Give it to Ron]

14 minutes ago, TWar said:

Nat Phillips not a target right now, says Leach. Thank god for that! 

I asked Liverpool ST holder I work with “he’s very good, proper old fashioned centre half and gets in where it hurts. Good in both boxes, doesn’t read game as well as Gomez or Van Dijk, but yeah he is good. Would be sad to see him go but he isn’t going to get much game time at Liverpool.

But seems irrelevant if not going but this guy knows his stuff.

[skintsaint]

21 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Duje Caleta-Car

Yes please.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

I agree it’ll be nice to have a defender who can properly defend - but the problem is if you have a defender who can defend but isn’t great on the ball, and you then ask him to focus heavily on using the ball, it tends to end pretty badly. See Bednarek, for example.

If you've got a defender who is good on the ball but cant defend it also ends pretty badly. See Stephens for example. 

[skintsaint]

4 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

See Bednarek, for example.

When did he become a defender that could defend? 😅

[niceandfriendly]

29 minutes ago, TWar said:

Nat Phillips not a target right now, says Leach. Thank god for that! 

Absolutely. Thank god we're not in for Liverpool players who covered well for VVD last season according to most Liverpool fans. We're way too good for Liverpool's squad players... 🙄

[Matthew Le God]

7 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

When did he become a defender that could defend? 😅

 

 

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

We will agree to disagree that he can defend if thats your marker.

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

Absolutely. Thank god we're not in for Liverpool players who covered well for VVD last season according to most Liverpool fans. We're way too good for Liverpool's squad players... 🙄

Think we might have been watching a different player, he looked dross to me. And we are better than a number of liverpool squad players, they have a great starting 11 but players like Nat Phillips, Neco Williams, Adrian, Rhys Williams are championship quality. We took on one of their highly rated squad players in Jan, remember how that went?

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

We will agree to disagree that he can defend if thats your marker.

Do interceptions not count as a type of defending? 🤔

Doing the most successfully in the Premier League of any defender is a good thing for him isn't it? He was 22 ahead of 2nd place Ben White!

Edited 13 August, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[skintsaint]

Just now, Matthew Le God said:

Do interceptions not count as a type of defending? 🤔

Please read my previous comment.

[tajjuk]

No idea if any of this is true but reports say West Ham bid for Caleta-Car at about £14 million but Marseille want around £17 million. 

Also supposedly was about to join Liverpool in January but Marseille couldn't find a replacement so pulled the deal. 

If we have just sold a centre-back for £14 million you'd think £17 million was in our price range. Plus aren't finances in France an issue with the collapse of their TV deal. 

 

Also we should see if we can gazump West Ham and go for Milenkovic

Edited 13 August, 2021 by tajjuk

[TWar]

33 minutes ago, trousers said:

Not "right now" but could be "tomorrow" (for example). 

True, but Leach said the same of Sorloth and Danjuma and those seemed to be on the money. If we have a long shortlist as is suggested in the article and he isn't on it it is pretty unlikely he comes.

Regarding this whole "do we need a CB who can def or one who is good on the ball", we need both. As Bednarek and Salisu are much more of the former and less of the latter, however, then in this case a CB who can pass would be very handy. One thing we definitely need is pace so we can use our high line with Salisu and them, Nat Phillips is slow as anything, was amongst the reasons Liverpool had to stop playing their high line last season.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by TWar

[trousers]

22 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

Could a high number of interceptions by a defender be more of an indication of the quality of our midfield rather than how good the defender is, per se? i.e. maybe Brighton's defensive midfield was more effective at protecting their defenders than we were (for example). Alternatively, I could be talking nonsense. (evens bet usually)

Edited 13 August, 2021 by trousers

[TWar]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Could a high number of interceptions by a defender be more of an indication of the quality of our midfield rather than how good the defender is, per se? i.e. maybe Brighton's defensive midfield was more effective at protecting their defenders than we were (for example). Alternatively, I could be talking nonsense. (evens bet usually)

It's likely more indicative of how we play.

With a high line and a high press teams will often try a route one approach of hitting it over the top, especially when boxed in, whereas a team who sits deeper and presses less will see that sort of ball played less often against them. Bednarek gets a high density of balls over the top to deal with, which traditionally are easier to intercept than short accurate passes so his numbers are inflated. This is my take anyway.

[trousers]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

True, but Leach said the same of Sorloth and Danjuma and those seemed to be on the money. If we have a long shortlist as is suggested in the article and he isn't on it it is pretty unlikely he comes.

Fair point, but I'm just slightly wary when someone gives a politcian-esque answer to a question. "Nat Phillips is not a target" would have sufficed if we had zero interest in him. Adding "right now" on the end suggests they haven't ruled him out. (somewhat pedantic semantics I admit, but just a wee observation)

[Matthew Le God]

3 minutes ago, trousers said:

Could a high number of interceptions by a defender be more of an indication of the quality of our midfield rather than how good the defender is, per se? i.e. maybe Brighton's defensive midfield was more effective at protecting their defenders than we were (for example). Alternatively, I could be talking nonsense. (evens bet usually)

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend. The most successful interceptions by a defender in the league shows one defensive skill he is good at.

[trousers]

6 minutes ago, TWar said:

It's likely more indicative of how we play.

With a high line and a high press teams will often try a route one approach of hitting it over the top, especially when boxed in, whereas a team who sits deeper and presses less will see that sort of ball played less often against them. Bednarek gets a high density of balls over the top to deal with, which traditionally are easier to intercept than short accurate passes so his numbers are inflated. This is my take anyway.

That's a much better hypothesis than mine! Either way, it highlights that there is usually more context behind raw stats. 

Edited 13 August, 2021 by trousers

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend. The most successful interceptions by a defender in the league shows one defensive skill he is good at.

Would be interesting to know what his "percentage completion" rate on attempted interceptions was. A player with 84 out of, say, 200 inteception opportunities/attempts could be considered poor at interceptions compared to a player with 62 interceptions out of 100 opportunities/attempts (for example)

Or maybe I'm over-thinking stuff for a change

Edited 13 August, 2021 by trousers

[tajjuk]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Fair point, but I'm just slightly wary when someone gives a politcian-esque answer to a question. "Nat Phillips is not a target" would have sufficed if we had zero interest in him. Adding "right now" on the end suggests they haven't ruled him out. (somewhat pedantic semantics I admit, but just a wee observation)

Probably just further down the shortlist. I mean don't the club claim we have people as potential targets, especially to replace people who might be leaving (so obvious that Vestergaard might be one of those) potentially 1-2 years before we might actually need to sign them. I mean until about 9 months ago no one had ever heard of Nat Phillips, so I'd reckon some other players have been watched for longer. 

Caleta-Car fits that bill more, we've probably been watching him since he was at Salzburg. 

[trousers]

4 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Caleta-Car fits that bill more, we've probably been watching him since he was at Salzburg. 

Yep, would be my first choice, if we can afford him

[LeBizzier69]

47 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

Pet hate of mine…..footballers pulling their socks right up like that. One of the many things I hated about John Terry for years.

[skintsaint]

22 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend.

That mean he gets an interception stat of 20 for the next FM? How about marking, tackling, heading, positioning etc....just to put it into easy terms for you. I think you need other qualities. Anyway, it was an off the cut jibe about how he isnt the greatest that you fucking make tedious.

Edited 13 August, 2021 by skintsaint

[TWar]

1 minute ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Pet hate of mine…..footballers pulling their socks right up like that. One of the many things I hated about John Terry for years.

Wouldn't want cold knees

[Badger]

18 minutes ago, trousers said:

Fair point, but I'm just slightly wary when someone gives a politcian-esque answer to a question. "Nat Phillips is not a target" would have sufficed if we had zero interest in him. Adding "right now" on the end suggests they haven't ruled him out. (somewhat pedantic semantics I admit, but just a wee observation)

Didn't it seem Armstrong was 'only one option' or had fallen down the pecking order at one point ?

I'm not so against the idea of Phillips as we have often been calling out for the 'no nonsense' type of CB in the past and don't think he's as bad as many claim him to be, difficult though if only judging him on the VVD scale obviously and pace would be preferable but won't get everything for £15-17m.

If we went for Phillips though would prefer a loan with an option to buy, leaving some funds for elsewhere (?)

12 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Probably just further down the shortlist. I mean don't the club claim we have people as potential targets, especially to replace people who might be leaving (so obvious that Vestergaard might be one of those) potentially 1-2 years before we might actually need to sign them. I mean until about 9 months ago no one had ever heard of Nat Phillips, so I'd reckon some other players have been watched for longer. 

Caleta-Car fits that bill more, we've probably been watching him since he was at Salzburg. 

Think Phillips may have been a smokescreen, wouldn't surprise me if we brought someone else in from abroad that had previously been discounted. Wonder if  we're still sniffing around Tomiyasu , although all reports still link him with spurs.

[skintsaint]

2 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Pet hate of mine…..footballers pulling their socks right up like that. One of the many things I hated about John Terry for years.

Stop the poor little blighters scuffing their knees when making tackles.

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, LeBizzier69 said:

Pet hate of mine…..footballers pulling their socks right up like that. One of the many things I hated about John Terry for years.

Yes, ridiculous, what purpose does it serve ? Can't imagine how they dress at home !

[Saint Troy]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, ridiculous, what purpose does it serve ? Can't imagine how they dress at home !

do wonder but could be anything - sports poeple have all sorts of ridiculous things they do - couldve done it once and had a good game and done it ever since. Still not a fn myself

[CityRanger]

1 hour ago, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

That’s because he gets caught out of position and has to scramble back and desperately cut the ball out.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, CityRanger said:

That’s because he gets caught out of position and has to scramble back and desperately cut the ball out.

That doesn't make sense. If he was getting caught out and having to scramble that would be "tackles", not interceptions. For an interception to happen he must be in the right position, that's basically the only prerequisite.