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Summer Transfer Window 2021

Dusic

By Dusic
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TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 08:00, VictiAbNonem said:

Seems a little strange to me that Leicester have bought two of the defenders they put nine goals past

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That's because, all jokes aside, that was kind of on Gunn mostly. They had an xG of like 4.1, Gunn just had an all time howler. 

Harry_SFC

Harry_SFC

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 07:38, saintwbu said:

To me Phillips is just a head it and kick it defender. No other outstanding attributes. I’d be very disappointed if he’s the one we are trying for, personally. 

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Have you even watched him or are you just making that assumption based on how he looks? He would be our best defender on the ball IMO. He has some very good attributes (passing, heading, positioning) he's just very slow. 

Edited by Harry_SFC
  • Like 1
Ed Rooney

Ed Rooney

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 07:38, saintwbu said:

To me Phillips is just a head it and kick it defender. No other outstanding attributes. I’d be very disappointed if he’s the one we are trying for, personally. 

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It would make a change for us to have a defender that wins headers and wins tackles, rather than the soft shite we have had to put up with. I haven’t seen enough live performances from Phillips to comment on what he is, but if he is a tough defender who can win aerial battles, then I personally wouldn’t be overly disappointed. 

  • Like 4
warwicksaint

warwicksaint

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 07:38, saintwbu said:

To me Phillips is just a head it and kick it defender. No other outstanding attributes. I’d be very disappointed if he’s the one we are trying for, personally. 

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Similar to someone like Ben Mee at Burnley? Yet they always have one of the best defences in the league outside of the top 6. Never necessarily a bad thing

  • Like 1
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 08:52, warwicksaint said:

Similar to someone like Ben Mee at Burnley? Yet they always have one of the best defences in the league outside of the top 6. Never necessarily a bad thing

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Having a defender who can actually defend would be nice, but it isn't very fashionable at the moment.

  • Like 3
Wade Garrett

Wade Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 08:46, Ed Rooney said:

It would make a change for us to have a defender that wins headers and wins tackles, rather than the soft shite we have had to put up with. I haven’t seen enough live performances from Phillips to comment on what he is, but if he is a tough defender who can win aerial battles, then I personally wouldn’t be overly disappointed. 

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Quite right.  I couldn't give a monkeys if he doesn't play 40 yard diagonal balls.  He is a defender.

  • Like 4
warwicksaint

warwicksaint

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 08:53, Turkish said:

Having a defender who can actually defend would be nice, but it isn't very fashionable at the moment.

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Agreed. I take the view i want my defender to be able to defend first, then they can play all the fancy passing they like, but their main job is to stop the ball ending up in the back of the net

  • Like 4
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 08:55, warwicksaint said:

Agreed. I take the view i want my defender to be able to defend first, then they can play all the fancy passing they like, but their main job is to stop the ball ending up in the back of the net

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not being able to ping 50 yard cross field balls didn't seem to harm Terry or Vidic. Look at our lot, we rarely talk about their defensive ability, it's always all about how far they can pass it or how good they are on the ball. Defend first anything else is a bonus. In any case any professional football should be able to make a 20 yard forward pass under no pressure when the whole game is being played in front of them.

  • Like 10
Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)

"Liverpool defender Nat Phillips is a reported transfer target but is not thought to be an option Saints are considering at this present time.

Former Liverpool loanee Ozan Kabak, free agent Gary Cahill and Marseille defender Duje Caleta-Car are amongst the players thought to be available to the club this summer - but it is expected that Caleta-Car may command a fee outside of the club's price range."

 

 

Edited by Matthew Le God
  • Like 4
AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 08:59, Turkish said:

not being able to ping 50 yard cross field balls didn't seem to harm Terry or Vidic. Look at our lot, we rarely talk about their defensive ability, it's always all about how far they can pass it or how good they are on the ball. Defend first anything else is a bonus. In any case any professional football should be able to make a 20 yard forward pass under no pressure when the whole game is being played in front of them.

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Also, if they are left or right footed

Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted

Caleta Car is also an ICM stellar sports player. (along with A. Armstrong and JWP) 

They'll know price on that already...

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:05, Nolan said:

Caleta Car is also an ICM stellar sports player. (along with A. Armstrong and JWP) 

They'll know price on that already...

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Leach says he's out of our price range, would be a nice signing though from what I've seen. Don't want Cahill either, wouldn't be against kabak really. 

Doctoroncall

Doctoroncall

Posted
Posted
  On 12/08/2021 at 20:42, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Thought it would be interesting to post some stats from a fantasy footie site. I know none of this is gospel and there is a difference being a defender in a Liverpool side vs a Saints one, but might be of interest to some

 

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h2EL7n1.png

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From who scored stats:

Phillips finished last season as our best rated centre-back in the Premier League (7.29), with no defender winning more aerial duels per game (5.6).

saintwbu

saintwbu

Posted
Posted

I agree it’ll be nice to have a defender who can properly defend - but the problem is if you have a defender who can defend but isn’t great on the ball, and you then ask him to focus heavily on using the ball, it tends to end pretty badly. See Bednarek, for example.

Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:03, TWar said:

Nat Phillips not a target right now, says Leach. Thank god for that! 

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I asked Liverpool ST holder I work with “he’s very good, proper old fashioned centre half and gets in where it hurts. Good in both boxes, doesn’t read game as well as Gomez or Van Dijk, but yeah he is good. Would be sad to see him go but he isn’t going to get much game time at Liverpool.

But seems irrelevant if not going but this guy knows his stuff.

Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:22, saintwbu said:

I agree it’ll be nice to have a defender who can properly defend - but the problem is if you have a defender who can defend but isn’t great on the ball, and you then ask him to focus heavily on using the ball, it tends to end pretty badly. See Bednarek, for example.

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If you've got a defender who is good on the ball but cant defend it also ends pretty badly. See Stephens for example. 

  • Like 1
niceandfriendly

niceandfriendly

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:03, TWar said:

Nat Phillips not a target right now, says Leach. Thank god for that! 

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Absolutely. Thank god we're not in for Liverpool players who covered well for VVD last season according to most Liverpool fans. We're way too good for Liverpool's squad players... 🙄

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:34, niceandfriendly said:

Absolutely. Thank god we're not in for Liverpool players who covered well for VVD last season according to most Liverpool fans. We're way too good for Liverpool's squad players... 🙄

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Think we might have been watching a different player, he looked dross to me. And we are better than a number of liverpool squad players, they have a great starting 11 but players like Nat Phillips, Neco Williams, Adrian, Rhys Williams are championship quality. We took on one of their highly rated squad players in Jan, remember how that went?

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:39, skintsaint said:

We will agree to disagree that he can defend if thats your marker.

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Do interceptions not count as a type of defending? 🤔

Doing the most successfully in the Premier League of any defender is a good thing for him isn't it? He was 22 ahead of 2nd place Ben White!

Edited by Matthew Le God
  • Like 1
tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted (edited)

No idea if any of this is true but reports say West Ham bid for Caleta-Car at about £14 million but Marseille want around £17 million. 

Also supposedly was about to join Liverpool in January but Marseille couldn't find a replacement so pulled the deal. 

If we have just sold a centre-back for £14 million you'd think £17 million was in our price range. Plus aren't finances in France an issue with the collapse of their TV deal. 

 

Also we should see if we can gazump West Ham and go for Milenkovic

Edited by tajjuk
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:15, trousers said:

Not "right now" but could be "tomorrow" (for example). 

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True, but Leach said the same of Sorloth and Danjuma and those seemed to be on the money. If we have a long shortlist as is suggested in the article and he isn't on it it is pretty unlikely he comes.

Regarding this whole "do we need a CB who can def or one who is good on the ball", we need both. As Bednarek and Salisu are much more of the former and less of the latter, however, then in this case a CB who can pass would be very handy. One thing we definitely need is pace so we can use our high line with Salisu and them, Nat Phillips is slow as anything, was amongst the reasons Liverpool had to stop playing their high line last season.

Edited by TWar
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:34, Matthew Le God said:

 

 

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Could a high number of interceptions by a defender be more of an indication of the quality of our midfield rather than how good the defender is, per se? i.e. maybe Brighton's defensive midfield was more effective at protecting their defenders than we were (for example). Alternatively, I could be talking nonsense. (evens bet usually)

Edited by trousers
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:56, trousers said:

Could a high number of interceptions by a defender be more of an indication of the quality of our midfield rather than how good the defender is, per se? i.e. maybe Brighton's defensive midfield was more effective at protecting their defenders than we were (for example). Alternatively, I could be talking nonsense. (evens bet usually)

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It's likely more indicative of how we play.

With a high line and a high press teams will often try a route one approach of hitting it over the top, especially when boxed in, whereas a team who sits deeper and presses less will see that sort of ball played less often against them. Bednarek gets a high density of balls over the top to deal with, which traditionally are easier to intercept than short accurate passes so his numbers are inflated. This is my take anyway.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:45, TWar said:

True, but Leach said the same of Sorloth and Danjuma and those seemed to be on the money. If we have a long shortlist as is suggested in the article and he isn't on it it is pretty unlikely he comes.

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Fair point, but I'm just slightly wary when someone gives a politcian-esque answer to a question. "Nat Phillips is not a target" would have sufficed if we had zero interest in him. Adding "right now" on the end suggests they haven't ruled him out. (somewhat pedantic semantics I admit, but just a wee observation)

Matthew Le God

Matthew Le God

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:56, trousers said:

Could a high number of interceptions by a defender be more of an indication of the quality of our midfield rather than how good the defender is, per se? i.e. maybe Brighton's defensive midfield was more effective at protecting their defenders than we were (for example). Alternatively, I could be talking nonsense. (evens bet usually)

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Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend. The most successful interceptions by a defender in the league shows one defensive skill he is good at.

trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 09:59, TWar said:

It's likely more indicative of how we play.

With a high line and a high press teams will often try a route one approach of hitting it over the top, especially when boxed in, whereas a team who sits deeper and presses less will see that sort of ball played less often against them. Bednarek gets a high density of balls over the top to deal with, which traditionally are easier to intercept than short accurate passes so his numbers are inflated. This is my take anyway.

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That's a much better hypothesis than mine! :) Either way, it highlights that there is usually more context behind raw stats. 

Edited by trousers
trousers

trousers

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:01, Matthew Le God said:

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend. The most successful interceptions by a defender in the league shows one defensive skill he is good at.

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Would be interesting to know what his "percentage completion" rate on attempted interceptions was. A player with 84 out of, say, 200 inteception opportunities/attempts could be considered poor at interceptions compared to a player with 62 interceptions out of 100 opportunities/attempts (for example)

Or maybe I'm over-thinking stuff for a change ;)

Edited by trousers
tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:00, trousers said:

Fair point, but I'm just slightly wary when someone gives a politcian-esque answer to a question. "Nat Phillips is not a target" would have sufficed if we had zero interest in him. Adding "right now" on the end suggests they haven't ruled him out. (somewhat pedantic semantics I admit, but just a wee observation)

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Probably just further down the shortlist. I mean don't the club claim we have people as potential targets, especially to replace people who might be leaving (so obvious that Vestergaard might be one of those) potentially 1-2 years before we might actually need to sign them. I mean until about 9 months ago no one had ever heard of Nat Phillips, so I'd reckon some other players have been watched for longer. 

Caleta-Car fits that bill more, we've probably been watching him since he was at Salzburg. 

skintsaint

skintsaint

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:01, Matthew Le God said:

Why he makes the interceptions is irrelevant when my post was a counter to a claim he doesn't defend.

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That mean he gets an interception stat of 20 for the next FM? How about marking, tackling, heading, positioning etc....just to put it into easy terms for you. I think you need other qualities. Anyway, it was an off the cut jibe about how he isnt the greatest that you fucking make tedious.

Edited by skintsaint
Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:00, trousers said:

Fair point, but I'm just slightly wary when someone gives a politcian-esque answer to a question. "Nat Phillips is not a target" would have sufficed if we had zero interest in him. Adding "right now" on the end suggests they haven't ruled him out. (somewhat pedantic semantics I admit, but just a wee observation)

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Didn't it seem Armstrong was 'only one option' or had fallen down the pecking order at one point ?

I'm not so against the idea of Phillips as we have often been calling out for the 'no nonsense' type of CB in the past and don't think he's as bad as many claim him to be, difficult though if only judging him on the VVD scale obviously and pace would be preferable but won't get everything for £15-17m.

If we went for Phillips though would prefer a loan with an option to buy, leaving some funds for elsewhere (?)

  On 13/08/2021 at 10:06, tajjuk said:

Probably just further down the shortlist. I mean don't the club claim we have people as potential targets, especially to replace people who might be leaving (so obvious that Vestergaard might be one of those) potentially 1-2 years before we might actually need to sign them. I mean until about 9 months ago no one had ever heard of Nat Phillips, so I'd reckon some other players have been watched for longer. 

Caleta-Car fits that bill more, we've probably been watching him since he was at Salzburg. 

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Think Phillips may have been a smokescreen, wouldn't surprise me if we brought someone else in from abroad that had previously been discounted. Wonder if  we're still sniffing around Tomiyasu , although all reports still link him with spurs.

Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:23, LeBizzier69 said:

Pet hate of mine…..footballers pulling their socks right up like that. One of the many things I hated about John Terry for years.

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Yes, ridiculous, what purpose does it serve ? Can't imagine how they dress at home !

Saint Troy

Saint Troy

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:27, Badger said:

Yes, ridiculous, what purpose does it serve ? Can't imagine how they dress at home !

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do wonder but could be anything - sports poeple have all sorts of ridiculous things they do - couldve done it once and had a good game and done it ever since. Still not a fn myself

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 13/08/2021 at 10:37, CityRanger said:

That’s because he gets caught out of position and has to scramble back and desperately cut the ball out.

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That doesn't make sense. If he was getting caught out and having to scramble that would be "tackles", not interceptions. For an interception to happen he must be in the right position, that's basically the only prerequisite. 

  • Like 8

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