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Summer Transfer Window 2021

Dusic

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Hodgey

Hodgey

Posted
Posted

Interesting debate on here - great leadership is about risk and reward. The risk/ reward is relegation - £100m a season.  So quibbling over £5m if it costs £100m is bad management. If Armstrong is our number 1 choice, paying over the odds isn’t such a big deal. I’d go further - pay Chelsea £40m for Abrahams, a known quantity who will almost certainly keep us up - generating £100m a year and with sell on potential. That is the kind of big idea leadership I want to see from the board. I know the response will be ‘we don’t have the cash’ - but we do, we have £80m loan which we’ve been told is for investment, get him in - sell Vest for £15m and job done - net spend of c -£5m.

  • Like 3
Ex Lion Tamer

Ex Lion Tamer

Posted
Posted
  On 05/08/2021 at 22:42, Hodgey said:

Interesting debate on here - great leadership is about risk and reward. The risk/ reward is relegation - £100m a season.  So quibbling over £5m if it costs £100m is bad management. If Armstrong is our number 1 choice, paying over the odds isn’t such a big deal. I’d go further - pay Chelsea £40m for Abrahams, a known quantity who will almost certainly keep us up - generating £100m a year and with sell on potential. That is the kind of big idea leadership I want to see from the board. I know the response will be ‘we don’t have the cash’ - but we do, we have £80m loan which we’ve been told is for investment, get him in - sell Vest for £15m and job done - net spend of c -£5m.

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Leadership is also about resisting the urge to panic and make dangerous decisions

  • Like 3
Lee On Solent Saint

Lee On Solent Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 05/08/2021 at 22:42, Hodgey said:

Interesting debate on here - great leadership is about risk and reward. The risk/ reward is relegation - £100m a season.  So quibbling over £5m if it costs £100m is bad management. If Armstrong is our number 1 choice, paying over the odds isn’t such a big deal. I’d go further - pay Chelsea £40m for Abrahams, a known quantity who will almost certainly keep us up - generating £100m a year and with sell on potential. That is the kind of big idea leadership I want to see from the board. I know the response will be ‘we don’t have the cash’ - but we do, we have £80m loan which we’ve been told is for investment, get him in - sell Vest for £15m and job done - net spend of c -£5m.

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There's no way Abraham joins us. Even if we had the means to cover the transfer and wages a player like that doesn't join us. We got lucky with Ings, he knew he had to get out of Liverpool to save what was left of his career, that's why we were able to pick him up. 

Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted
  On 05/08/2021 at 22:07, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

Having a medical on Monday at Palace according to this Guardian journalist...

Screenshot_20210805-230549.png

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It really isn't difficult to go onto twitter and see that @ed_Aar0ns only has ever tweeted 6 times and has no blue tick, and that actual guardian writer twitter is @ed_aarons.

DT

DT

Posted
Posted

Charlie twonkface Austin on Talksport barely concealing his ongoing hatred of saints in discussing Ings after saiints ‘failed to push on as a club’

SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 06:18, DT said:

Charlie twonkface Austin on Talksport barely concealing his ongoing hatred of saints in discussing Ings after saiints ‘failed to push on as a club’

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He’s not wrong though, is he. 

  • Like 1
hans gruber

hans gruber

Posted
Posted

Lets get Akinfenwa from Wycombe, our shirt sales will go up 100 fold 🤣

 

Also, bring back Victor Wanyama and Morgan Schneiderlin to prop up our midfield , only 30 and 31 years old.

 

*not serious about Akinfenwa, but would be a novel way to get my son wearing a Southampton kit 

  • Confused 2
Nolan

Nolan

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 06:18, DT said:

Charlie twonkface Austin on Talksport barely concealing his ongoing hatred of saints in discussing Ings after saiints ‘failed to push on as a club’

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The Irony being Austin failing to push on as a player contributed to that.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
lambtiss

lambtiss

Posted
Posted
  On 05/08/2021 at 22:43, CWD said:

£20m+ for a Championship striker is just bonkers. Glad we’re not going that high.

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Ollie Watkins went to Villa for about £30 million. Great first season for Villa. 

saintwbu

saintwbu

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 07:39, craig said:

Ollie Watkins went to Villa for about £30 million. Great first season for Villa. 

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Maupay cost over £20mil a few years back too, it’s the going rate for a decent Championship striker 

stevy777_x

stevy777_x

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 07:45, saintwbu said:

Maupay cost over £20mil a few years back too, it’s the going rate for a decent Championship striker 

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Its the length of the contract that matters. 
paying 20m for Armstrong is like paying 40m for Ings both with one year left.

Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 06:18, DT said:

Charlie twonkface Austin on Talksport barely concealing his ongoing hatred of saints in discussing Ings after saiints ‘failed to push on as a club’

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Austin will still be droning on about Saints when he's back hod-carrying on a building site in Swindon aged fifty 'I was on forty-grand a week nipper, Koeman and Van Dijk I shit 'em...' Thick as mince. 

  • Haha 1
Millbrook Saint

Millbrook Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:07, stevy777_x said:

Its the length of the contract that matters. 
paying 20m for Armstrong is like paying 40m for Ings both with one year left.

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Well we got 30m for Ings, Blackburn have seemingly achieved with Armstrong what we attempted and failed to do with Ings, stir up a bidding war, in this scenario I think we're going to have to pay close to what they're asking

Saint Garrett

Saint Garrett

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:23, Millbrook Saint said:

Well we got 30m for Ings, Blackburn have seemingly achieved with Armstrong what we attempted and failed to do with Ings, stir up a bidding war, in this scenario I think we're going to have to pay close to what they're asking

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Absolutely, it's madness that Ings / Armstrong's contract situations are the same, and they're going for basically the same money. Blackburn said they wanted £25m from the start and it looks like they'll get roughly that. An extra £5m of potential addons for Ings is a bid mad. 

Contract situation with players is always an odd one though, as even though you're over paying based on that, you're still getting a decent player for a not-horrendous price. Whether Armstrong is worth £25m odd I'm not convinced.

tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:28, Saint Garrett said:

 and it looks like they'll get roughly that

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Does it, or are they flooding the rumour mill trying to do just that and start a bidding war when most of the bidders are not actually interested.

He was signing for Norwich the other day, until Norwich said they hadn't even made a bid. 

Suhari

Suhari

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:33, Nolan said:

What Saints Extra thinks Tom Leach says is not what Tom Leach Says:-

 

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Didn't RH shape his RB Leipzig team from young, hungry, fast players?

Be nice to replicate things here.

Millbrook Saint

Millbrook Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:34, tajjuk said:

Does it, or are they flooding the rumour mill trying to do just that and start a bidding war when most of the bidders are not actually interested.

He was signing for Norwich the other day, until Norwich said they hadn't even made a bid. 

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They could well be flooding the rumour mill, who knows, could all be made up that Palace have almost met their demands the day after we sell Ings, or maybe Palace have moved because they don't want to lose out after realising we have the money now.  Hopefully the powers that be at the club know what they're doing, it's a dangerous game they're playing

S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:30, Lallana's Left Peg said:

 

Bye bye Premier League 👋

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Anyone who thought we were going to spend £20m on a striker is going to be incredibly disappointed, we cannot do that.

The scouting is going to need to be as shit hot as it's ever been to get this right. It's not impossible to buy a super player for 'cheap', just need to look in the right places.

  • Like 1
eelpie

eelpie

Posted
Posted
  On 05/08/2021 at 22:42, Hodgey said:

Interesting debate on here - great leadership is about risk and reward. The risk/ reward is relegation - £100m a season.  So quibbling over £5m if it costs £100m is bad management. If Armstrong is our number 1 choice, paying over the odds isn’t such a big deal. I’d go further - pay Chelsea £40m for Abrahams, a known quantity who will almost certainly keep us up - generating £100m a year and with sell on potential. That is the kind of big idea leadership I want to see from the board. I know the response will be ‘we don’t have the cash’ - but we do, we have £80m loan which we’ve been told is for investment, get him in - sell Vest for £15m and job done - net spend of c -£5m.

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I could not agree more.

Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 06:18, DT said:

Charlie twonkface Austin on Talksport barely concealing his ongoing hatred of saints in discussing Ings after saiints ‘failed to push on as a club’

Expand  

I have no love for Austin

But he isn't wrong, if you show no ambition then you're going to lose your best players

Give it to Ron

Give it to Ron

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:58, Smirking_Saint said:

I have no love for Austin

But he isn't wrong, if you show no ambition then you're going to lose your best players

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To show ambition you have to have money…Bournemouth had money look at their model now in deep shit.

We have an owner that can’t invest and no-one wants to buy at his price. We were hamstrung by shocking recruiting and decisions like a Forster extension when he was awful that season.

The current model is unsustainable as our academy has stopped producing for a few years longer. We are addressing that but next couple of years will be tough.

Austin trying to chase a full back was the most embarrassing thing I have seen 

Edited by Give it to Ron
saintwbu

saintwbu

Posted
Posted

It does seem extremely coincidental that the night we sell Ings, half the league are in advanced talks with Blackburn and near their valuation, over a player we’ve been haggling over. As mentioned, maybe they’re moving quickly now they know we have money. More likely (imo), Blackburn think they can get more money out of us.

  • Like 3
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted
  On 05/08/2021 at 22:42, Hodgey said:

Interesting debate on here - great leadership is about risk and reward. The risk/ reward is relegation - £100m a season.  So quibbling over £5m if it costs £100m is bad management. If Armstrong is our number 1 choice, paying over the odds isn’t such a big deal. I’d go further - pay Chelsea £40m for Abrahams, a known quantity who will almost certainly keep us up - generating £100m a year and with sell on potential. That is the kind of big idea leadership I want to see from the board. I know the response will be ‘we don’t have the cash’ - but we do, we have £80m loan which we’ve been told is for investment, get him in - sell Vest for £15m and job done - net spend of c -£5m.

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We're all assuming that the loan is for player transfers. Do we know exactly what that's paid for? Nope....

I assume it was to cover the enormous shortfall of almost a year without match-day revenue or hospitality revenue, that is massive. And that shortfall will be felt over many years to come and that loan will help cover that over numerous years.

I think it's naive and daft to think ''Oh, we have an 80m loan - just spent £40m on Abraham' - that is EXACTLY the mentality that gets you relegated and in League 1 with Wigan and no money.

At least with this approach, whilst we may still go down, we're not going to be suffering from having spent over our means in the recent years. 

Let's also revisit some of those mega signings we've made in the past that were supposed to propel us:

£18m Boufal - Fail

£20m Carillo  - Fail

£17m Hoedt - Fail

£16m Lemina - Fail

£18m Osvaldo - Fail

Our best value has come from the Armstrongs, KWP's, Bednareks, Tadic's, Mane's - that £10-15m bracket. Yes, values have changed over the last few years, but they're still out there if the scouting is good enough.

I'm desperate for us to improve the squad and invest, but as we are today the answer isn't just spending £40m on one player when as a club we clearly cannot sustain that under the current ownership model.

  • Like 13
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 08:58, Smirking_Saint said:

I have no love for Austin

But he isn't wrong, if you show no ambition then you're going to lose your best players

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Austin joined us when we were in Europe, his first game was a winner at Old Trafford. He left with us a relegation strugglers lucky to stay up. Whatever you think of him he's bang on.

  • Like 2
Whitey Grandad

Whitey Grandad

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 09:09, Turkish said:

Austin joined us when we were in Europe, his first game was a winner at Old Trafford. He left with us a relegation strugglers lucky to stay up. Whatever you think of him he's bang on.

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So any decline was due to Austin joining us?

  • Like 1
  • Haha 4
Maya's Dad

Maya's Dad

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 09:07, S-Clarke said:

Our best value has come from the Armstrongs, KWP's, Bednareks, Tadic's, Mane's - that £10-15m bracket. Yes, values have changed over the last few years, but they're still out there if the scouting is good enough.

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what you are saying isn't wrong. but this is centre forward we are talking about. strikers come at a premium and are the best paid position for a very good reason. i do not think it is financially beyond the club to spend 20m+ on a striker, it shouldn't be. 25m for ings plus the big contracts we have gotten rid of, on paper thats just another 5-10m to find in order to fund a 20-30m striker. i know it isn't saints to do this, but we need to sooner than later if we are to stand any chance of keeping up with the teams we want to be keeping up with

Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 09:15, Whitey Grandad said:

So any decline was due to Austin joining us?

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Our decline was due to poor recruitment, a belief that we can sustain selling our best and recruiting hidden gems

You cannot continue with the above methodology, as unfortunately we have seen. Its also reducing rewards as you begin to fall down the table you then end up shopping in different brackets.

 

  On 06/08/2021 at 09:04, Give it to Ron said:

To show ambition you have to have money…Bournemouth had money look at their model now in deep shit.

We have an owner that can’t invest and no-one wants to buy at his price. We were hamstrung by shocking recruiting and decisions like a Forster extension when he was awful that season.

The current model is unsustainable as our academy has stopped producing for a few years longer. We are addressing that but next couple of years will be tough.

Austin trying to chase a full back was the most embarrassing thing I have seen 

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Im not suggesting we follow an old Leeds, Portsmouth or even a Bournemouth model.... I'm not suggesting that we go in chasing Europe, but we almost certainly need to spend above our budget at certain times.... now is one of those times

We have struggled for the last 2 or 3 years and have survived, in part, due to the lack of quality in the teams below us. If we fail to adequately prepare for this year, I have no doubt we will struggle again

This is one of those years that we need to potentially go into the red to stave of a relegation that will cost us far more than overspending on a goalscorer

  • Like 1
S-Clarke

S-Clarke

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 06/08/2021 at 09:35, Smirking_Saint said:

Our decline was due to poor recruitment, a belief that we can sustain selling our best and recruiting hidden gems

You cannot continue with the above methodology, as unfortunately we have seen. Its also reducing rewards as you begin to fall down the table you then end up shopping in different brackets.

 

Im not suggesting we follow an old Leeds, Portsmouth or even a Bournemouth model.... I'm not suggesting that we go in chasing Europe, but we almost certainly need to spend above our budget at certain times.... now is one of those times

We have struggled for the last 2 or 3 years and have survived, in part, due to the lack of quality in the teams below us. If we fail to adequately prepare for this year, I have no doubt we will struggle again

This is one of those years that we need to potentially go into the red to stave of a relegation that will cost us far more than overspending on a goalscorer

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But you need an owner who is willing to accept that risk first and foremost, we don't. He's invisible, doesn't get involved, not inputting at all.

I doubt he's going to want debt saddled on his purchase either, so we are fully constrained because of the ownership. We cannot spend above our means because we have no way of getting money that we don't have. Other clubs with ownership that is engaged have that bit of flexibility where there is sometimes the approach to speculate to accumulate, which is what I think you're referring to, but without ownership engaged then we're stuffed. We literally have to generate every penny ourselves.

I've never heard of that happening before, but it's happening here.

Edited by S-Clarke
Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 09:51, S-Clarke said:

But you need an owner who is willing to accept that risk first and foremost, we don't. He's invisible, doesn't get involved, not inputting at all.

I doubt he's going to want debt saddled on his purchase either, so we are fully constrained because of the ownership. We cannot spend above our means because we have no way of getting money that we don't have. Other clubs with ownership that is engaged have that bit of flexibility where there is sometimes the approach to speculate to accumulate, which is what I think you're referring to, but without ownership engaged then we're stuffed. We literally have to generate every penny ourselves.

I've never heard of that happening before, but it's happening here.

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And if we get relegated his asset becomes significantly devalued

John B

John B

Posted
Posted
  On 06/08/2021 at 09:04, Give it to Ron said:

To show ambition you have to have money…Bournemouth had money look at their model now in deep shit.

We have an owner that can’t invest and no-one wants to buy at his price. We were hamstrung by shocking recruiting and decisions like a Forster extension when he was awful that season.

The current model is unsustainable as our academy has stopped producing for a few years longer. We are addressing that but next couple of years will be tough.

Austin trying to chase a full back was the most embarrassing thing I have seen 

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I think you are slightly negative we did OK last season until the horrific run of injuries to key players and the congested fixture list culminated in our Semi Final at Wembley

Our ambition over the last fifty years has been to be as competitive as possible in the top flight and I think that has been achieved as we are a well established member of the PL but not one of the top ten on a regular basis

As a fan over those years I have of course had ups and downs but the ups including being at the top of the PL only for a short time last season have been worthwhile 

The only way for a team to regularly successful is to be in a large city with a large fanbase and a billionaire owner

I have two friends one a Man City supporter and the other a Chelsea one who never believe that thirty years that they would be supporting major clubs in europe.

I am fairly confident that we will be OK this season as we have some decent players who should improve to be top class players in the next couple of years

Losing Ings is not the end of the world as we have £28m to invest 

I hate to think what I would be feeling if I had been born in Portsmouth instead of Southampton especially as Pompey we one of the top clubs in my early childhood

revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted

Don’t really have a problem with looking at players in the sub 20M category, there’s probably a few bargains around and I think the risk of failure is just as great as if you were spending 25-30M. Look at Timo Werner shocking value for what they paid but I bet no one really thought it a risk when he signed. I’m not even convinced Tammy Abraham would be that good (leaving aside the fact that it’ll never happen anyway). Basically I’m saying any signing is going to be a risk (obvious) but that risk in my opinion isn’t drastically reduced by spending what for us is a big fee. 

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