Summer Transfer Window 2021

[Chez]

  On 06/07/2021 at 10:53, Matthew Le God said:

 

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If Ings had three years on his contact and there was no talk of him leaving, would we be looking to sign another striker? Or in other words, does this bid mean that Ings is almost certainly departing this summer, hence we are (smartly) looking to buy a replacement before we sell? Or do we need another striker even if Ings stays?

[Turkish]

  On 06/07/2021 at 12:58, Chez said:

If Ings had three years on his contact and there was no talk of him leaving, would we be looking to sign another striker? Or in other words, does this bid mean that Ings is almost certainly departing this summer, hence we are (smartly) looking to buy a replacement before we sell? Or do we need another striker even if Ings stays?

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Pretty sure there were stories in the press that we wanted another striker anyway, assume if Ings leaves we'll be in the market for two.

[Saint Matty 76]

  On 06/07/2021 at 12:58, Chez said:

If Ings had three years on his contact and there was no talk of him leaving, would we be looking to sign another striker? Or in other words, does this bid mean that Ings is almost certainly departing this summer, hence we are (smartly) looking to buy a replacement before we sell? Or do we need another striker even if Ings stays?

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I personally think we need another striker even if Ings stays. Plus there's the added benefit that Armstrong can play either of the wide positions as well, which covers for Minamino's departing minutes also.

In an ideal world it'd be Armstrong and someone like Edouard if Ings were to leave, but I think I'm forgetting who I support for a moment.

[Chez]

  On 06/07/2021 at 07:14, CB Fry said:

So this kid would be the back up to KWP and our first signing of the summer Perraud?

So he's not going to a regular starter if he comes down, relying on injuries to KWP and Perraud. Which is likely because we do work our full backs hard. But still seems a bit weird, especially for this kid supposedly moving to get game time.

Will be interesting to see how he does as we have been chasing him for so long.

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Like you say, good chance we need the services of more than two fullbacks over the course of the season. No reason why he couldn't be first choice left back. we are not obligated to pick Perroud and who knows how he will turn out.

[le_tiss]

Come home Gareth and play for free at Saints 

[Forester]

  On 06/07/2021 at 12:59, Saint Matty 76 said:

I personally think we need another striker even if Ings stays. Plus there's the added benefit that Armstrong can play either of the wide positions as well, which covers for Minamino's departing minutes also.

In an ideal world it'd be Armstrong and someone like Edouard if Ings were to leave, but I think I'm forgetting who I support for a moment.

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Agree with this, and assume Long and DND both go out it will be critical to get two strikers in if he goes.  But I don’t think he will.  Unless a mega £40 panic bid comes in, sufficiently early that we can replace, I think he will be told to honour his contract and I think he will without being a problem.  He wants his England place back, he must know he is one more injury away from the end, and may well sign another contract after the window closes.  If not we have another year out of him

[trousers]

  On 06/07/2021 at 14:32, Forester said:

Unless a mega £40 panic bid comes in

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I'll see your 40 quid and raise you a bullseye

[waylander]

  On 06/07/2021 at 12:58, Chez said:

If Ings had three years on his contact and there was no talk of him leaving, would we be looking to sign another striker? Or in other words, does this bid mean that Ings is almost certainly departing this summer, hence we are (smartly) looking to buy a replacement before we sell? Or do we need another striker even if Ings stays?

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We need to replace Long, particularly if Obafemi and N'lundulu are shipping out.

[SaintTex]

the smart, unemotional choice is to sell Ings and Vestergaard now. say you get 40m for them.

promote Salisu to Vestie's spot.

with that money..

• you go get an additional striker (won't be easy to find someone with Ing's quality, but we are dealing with the hand we're dealt.) (20m)
• an additional attacking midfielder, creative type (will be limited by funds, players available) (15m)
• try to find a diamond in the rough CB as backup (5m type)

wont be easy, but that is the path.

[TWar]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:05, SaintTex said:

the smart, unemotional choice is to sell Ings and Vestergaard now. say you get 40m for them.

promote Salisu to Vestie's spot.

with that money..

• you go get an additional striker (won't be easy to find someone with Ing's quality, but we are dealing with the hand we're dealt.) (20m)
• an additional attacking midfielder, creative type (will be limited by funds, players available) (15m)
• try to find a diamond in the rough CB as backup (5m type)

wont be easy, but that is the path.

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This would be exactly what I'd do. If we can get Armstrong and Danjuma in for Vest and Ings we have not dropped in quality imo as Salisu is more than ready to step up and upgrading at AM is huge for us.

[TWar]

  On 06/07/2021 at 14:41, waylander said:

We need to replace Long, particularly if Obafemi and N'lundulu are shipping out.

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Those three between them played about 1 full games worth of minutes between them last season, I don't think they need replacing if we replace Ings with a fitter forward. Our front two would be Adam Armstrong and Che with Tella and Redmond as depth and at a push we can put Walcott up top. Would be fine imo. Not the strongest but we have more pressing issues.

Edited 6 July, 2021 by TWar

[positivepete]

We may also need a different central midfielder.  With Perraud instead of Bertrand, we won’t be able to use a full back as part of a back three in possession as we started to last season when KWP went forward.

[Smirking_Saint]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:15, positivepete said:

We may also need a different central midfielder.  With Perraud instead of Bertrand, we won’t be able to use a full back as part of a back three in possession as we started to last season when KWP went forward.

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It wasn't particularly successful when we tried to use Salisu there either

Im assuming Ralph will go back to his favoured 4222 system, which both Perraud and KWP as the wingbacks

[Dusic]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:10, TWar said:

This would be exactly what I'd do. If we can get Armstrong and Danjuma in for Vest and Ings we have not dropped in quality imo as Salisu is more than ready to step up and upgrading at AM is huge for us.

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Of course its a drop in quality, Ings is one of the best strikers in the PL!

Danjuma has had a good season in the Championship but is still very much jury out at PL level. I certainly wouldnt say he is a huge upgrade on Redmond or Walcott.

Reality is that without Ings goals we will be worse off. Regardless of any spin.

This has been positioned as summer where we need to do a lot of business. So far we have swapped one LB for another, and most other stories have been about losing players.

There is a lot to do, and almost certainly only a fraction of what is needed will be done.

Edited 6 July, 2021 by Dusic

[TWar]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:22, Dusic said:

Of course its a drop in quality, Ings is one of the best strikers in the PL!

Danjuma has had a good season in the Championship but is still very much jury out at PL level. I certainly wouldnt say he is a huge upgrade on Redmond or Walcott.

Reality is that without Ings goals we will be worse off. Regardless of any spin.

This has been positioned as summer where we need to do a lot of business. So far we have swapped one LB for another, and most other stories have been about losing players.

There is a lot to do, and almost certainly only a fraction of what is needed will be done.

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Ings is one of the best strikers in the premier league when fit, but owing to his fitness he is more a 13-15 goal forward than a consistent 20+. He is ahead of Armstrong definitely, even with fitness, but I think Armstrong seems a decent replacement, hopefully 10 goals is a reasonable prem target. On the other hand I think Danjuma is a mile ahead of Redmond and Walcott, from what I've seen of him. Just a much better footballer in every way. Either way if you aren't convinced by Armstrong and Danjuma I could equally have said Edouard and Peirera, my point was more generically selling Ings and Vestergaard and replacing them with Salisu and a cheaper CF will open up about £20m for an attacking mid which will help our balance immensely. 

I also think that Perraud is a big upgrade on what Bertrand was for us last season, where he was OK defensively but so lackluster going forward he made our entire attack lopsided.

Edited 6 July, 2021 by TWar

[SuperSAINT]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:22, Dusic said:

Of course its a drop in quality, Ings is one of the best strikers in the PL!

Danjuma has had a good season in the Championship but is still very much jury out at PL level. I certainly wouldnt say he is a huge upgrade on Redmond or Walcott.

Reality is that without Ings goals we will be worse off. Regardless of any spin.

This has been positioned as summer where we need to do a lot of business. So far we have swapped one LB for another, and most other stories have been about losing players.

There is a lot to do, and almost certainly only a fraction of what is needed will be done.

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Very true.  I don’t see how we can afford the players we need without selling 1 or 2, though.

[Chez]

  On 06/07/2021 at 14:41, waylander said:

We need to replace Long, particularly if Obafemi and N'lundulu are shipping out.

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Long has another year and will require us paying half his wages at least to ship.

[Chez]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:12, TWar said:

Those three between them played about 1 full games worth of minutes between them last season, I don't think they need replacing if we replace Ings with a fitter forward. Our front two would be Adam Armstrong and Che with Tella and Redmond as depth and at a push we can put Walcott up top. Would be fine imo. Not the strongest but we have more pressing issues.

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such as? Don't answer that as every position need strengthening really. But is there more pressing issues than scoring goals?

[Matthew Le God]

  On 06/07/2021 at 14:41, waylander said:

We need to replace Long

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Long does not need replacing, he wasn't occupying a place in the squad as he was out on loan.

[TWar]

  On 06/07/2021 at 17:35, Chez said:

such as? Don't answer that as every position need strengthening really. But is there more pressing issues than scoring goals?

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Setting up goals imo, we create very few chances for our strikers so a new attacking mid. Also goalkeeper, our GK's let in about 14 goals they shouldn't have (statistically) last season IIRC, that is a fairly big swing even if like 4 of them were vs United that one game. Those are the big two I'd say, along with an Ings replacement, then a back up fullback as we literally don't have a single one, then probably striker depth as Tella looks handy and Redmond is better than nothing.

[Chez]

  On 06/07/2021 at 17:46, TWar said:

Setting up goals imo, we create very few chances for our strikers so a new attacking mid. Also goalkeeper, our GK's let in about 14 goals they shouldn't have (statistically) last season IIRC, that is a fairly big swing even if like 4 of them were vs United that one game. Those are the big two I'd say, along with an Ings replacement, then a back up fullback as we literally don't have a single one, then probably striker depth as Tella looks handy and Redmond is better than nothing.

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with you there. Desperately need some game changing flair in the form of a dribbler. We have runners in Theo and Armstrong, but we need some class and skills on the ball to open teams up.

Goalkeeper seems to be a blindspot. Are we seriously going to give an contract to McCarthy?

Personally I want to see two more fullbacks. I think its woeful squad building not to have four fullbacks, especially considering the way we play and what we ask of them. Why is every other position got at least two? It cost us big style last season. I don't want to see CBs out there and I don't want to see us signing cover. We should be signing a right back that pushes KWP not just willing to sit on the bench.

[Mowgli]

  On 06/07/2021 at 12:58, Chez said:

If Ings had three years on his contact and there was no talk of him leaving, would we be looking to sign another striker? Or in other words, does this bid mean that Ings is almost certainly departing this summer, hence we are (smartly) looking to buy a replacement before we sell? Or do we need another striker even if Ings stays?

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Championship strikers need a full season to get up to speed in the EPL.  No point in signing when Ings contract expires.  Sign him now and by next summer he will be a decent replacement for Danny.

[Matthew Le God]

  On 06/07/2021 at 18:03, Mowgli said:

Championship strikers need a full season to get up to speed in the EPL. 

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Do they? Rickie Lambert didn't.

Nor did recent examples like Ollie Watkins and Patrick Bamford.

Do you think it will take Ivan Toney a season? If not for him... then why for Adam Armstrong?

Edited 6 July, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Hodgey]

Most of those players were with the same team / style. Much harder to adjust to a new league / style / team. Plus Bamford and Watkins had Rafina and Grealish to feed them - we have Redmond.

[LuckyNumber7]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:12, TWar said:

Those three between them played about 1 full games worth of minutes between them last season, I don't think they need replacing if we replace Ings with a fitter forward. Our front two would be Adam Armstrong and Che with Tella and Redmond as depth and at a push we can put Walcott up top. Would be fine imo. Not the strongest but we have more pressing issues.

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That would be disastrous imo. Redmond is not and never will be a striker, and whilst Tella looks promising he is largely unproven so far. Armstrong would be a good signing but relying on him and Adams for a whole season with such weak backup would be asking for trouble. Still think Obafemi has something about him but he could do with a season of regular football out on loan. If Ings goes we need another striker.

[le_tiss]

  On 06/07/2021 at 19:33, Hodgey said:

Most of those players were with the same team / style. Much harder to adjust to a new league / style / team. Plus Bamford and Watkins had Rafina and Grealish to feed them - we have Redmond.

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[Matthew Le God]

  On 06/07/2021 at 18:06, Matthew Le God said:

Do they? Rickie Lambert didn't.

Nor did recent examples like Ollie Watkins and Patrick Bamford.

Do you think it will take Ivan Toney a season? If not for him... then why for Adam Armstrong?

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  On 06/07/2021 at 19:33, Hodgey said:

Most of those players were with the same team / style. Much harder to adjust to a new league / style / team. Plus Bamford and Watkins had Rafina and Grealish to feed them - we have Redmond.

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  On 06/07/2021 at 19:41, le_tiss said:

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He isn't.

1) What players we have to assist a new striker is irrelevant to what we were discussing.

2)  Watkins didn't come up with Villa.

Edited 6 July, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Convict Colony]

both statements and assertions were obtuse and meaningless.

football is a team game, strikers need to be fed the ball.

The perceived quality of each striker can be influenced both by the league they operate in and the type of chances they get given by the team.

 

[Hodgey]

So building on that MLG - would you expect Armstrong to score over 10 league goals to us, if he replaces Ings this season ?

Do you think he could have the same impact for us as Watkins and Bamford have straight from the Championship ?

[Give it to Ron]

  On 06/07/2021 at 20:14, Hodgey said:

So building on that MLG - would you expect Armstrong to score over 10 league goals to us, if he replaces Ings this season ?

Do you think he could have the same impact for us as Watkins and Bamford have straight from the Championship ?

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I asked my lad who watched him play a few times live here is what he responded Pacey good finisher, either foot, not tall, can play on wing too, am convinced he will be good for us.

[Harry_SFC]

  On 06/07/2021 at 20:24, Give it to Ron said:

I asked my lad who watched him play a few times live here is what he responded Pacey good finisher, either foot, not tall, can play on wing too, am convinced he will be good for us.

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Having seen him play here and there, his style of play is actually quite similar to Ings (obviously not at the same level). 

[skintsaint]

Even Ings didnt score that many playing in the Championship so will be interesting to see if Armstrong can make the step up the same way Ings did.

[stevy777_x]

  On 07/07/2021 at 01:28, skintsaint said:

Even Ings didnt score that many playing in the Championship so will be interesting to see if Armstrong can make the step up the same way Ings did.

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If you look at Armstrong s goal, they are mostly tap ins or one on ones where he is afforded a lot of space, space he won t get in the PL.

Not convinced of his quality

[Saint86]

  On 06/07/2021 at 15:36, TWar said:

Ings is one of the best strikers in the premier league when fit, but owing to his fitness he is more a 13-15 goal forward than a consistent 20+. He is ahead of Armstrong definitely, even with fitness, but I think Armstrong seems a decent replacement, hopefully 10 goals is a reasonable prem target. On the other hand I think Danjuma is a mile ahead of Redmond and Walcott, from what I've seen of him. Just a much better footballer in every way. Either way if you aren't convinced by Armstrong and Danjuma I could equally have said Edouard and Peirera, my point was more generically selling Ings and Vestergaard and replacing them with Salisu and a cheaper CF will open up about £20m for an attacking mid which will help our balance immensely. 

I also think that Perraud is a big upgrade on what Bertrand was for us last season, where he was OK defensively but so lackluster going forward he made our entire attack lopsided.

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The issue you've got is that we've already signed Perraud and will be paying loan fees and wages out of the player sales (assumed ings and vestergard monies). Saints have debts to clear, i doubt we'll see any for of net spend.

However, on the face of it.

Bertrand out - perraud and williams in

Ings out - Armstrong in

Vesty out - Salisu promoted, need a new back up.

Its reasonable business for sure. And i'll say this for Ralph and the club, we seem to be going aobut our main business early and getting the players in for the start of preseason.

Edited 7 July, 2021 by Saint86

[Roo1976]

  On 07/07/2021 at 07:37, stevy777_x said:

If you look at Armstrong s goal, they are mostly tap ins or one on ones where he is afforded a lot of space, space he won t get in the PL.

Not convinced of his quality

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Same description as Chey  there.............tap ins....

[Saint86]

 

  On 07/07/2021 at 07:54, Roo1976 said:

Same description as Chey  there.............tap ins....

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Yeah thats fair, its not Che's fault he's a big powerful bloke with a "tap" like a mule's kick.

Edited 7 July, 2021 by Saint86

[WALK DMC]

  On 07/07/2021 at 07:54, Roo1976 said:

Same description as Chey  there.............tap ins....

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  On 07/07/2021 at 07:37, stevy777_x said:

If you look at Armstrong s goal, they are mostly tap ins or one on ones where he is afforded a lot of space, space he won t get in the PL.

Not convinced of his quality

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  On 07/07/2021 at 07:54, Roo1976 said:

Same description as Chey  there.............tap ins....

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Che's video of his last championship season with Birmingham had plenty of shots from the edge of the box i.e. not tap-ins. The issue was that every goal was scored with his right foot. He didn't seem to have the ability to score with his head or left foot. This has continued with Saints. 

Armstrong's video shows someone who has pace and can finish with both feet and contribute a few headers too. One of the other posters noted a resemblance with Ings' style which I can also see. 

Of course, looking good in the Championship is very different from the premiership (or even the French Ligue 1 as Perraud may find out too), but as clips go I found it encouraging. 

[Give it to Ron]

  On 07/07/2021 at 07:37, stevy777_x said:

If you look at Armstrong s goal, they are mostly tap ins or one on ones where he is afforded a lot of space, space he won t get in the PL.

Not convinced of his quality

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So having to be in right place for a tap in counts for nothing? 28 tap ins last season?

won’t get space have you seen the bottom 6 defend?

Edited 7 July, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[Saint86]

  On 07/07/2021 at 07:37, stevy777_x said:

If you look at Armstrong s goal, they are mostly tap ins or one on ones where he is afforded a lot of space, space he won t get in the PL.

Not convinced of his quality

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Also really wouldn't agree with this at all - seriously unfair on the quality of goals he's scored and actually ignores his off the ball movement and the positions he takes up. Basically a very negative outlook to take.

Its a good mixture of long shots, 1on1 placed finishes, shots from just inside the box, couple of tap ins, penalties, diving headers. He's got pace, movement, and he's a goalscorer - a good one. Put him in a yolo hassenhuttle team and he's getting goals.

Edited 7 July, 2021 by Saint86

[SKD]

  On 06/07/2021 at 18:06, Matthew Le God said:

Do they? Rickie Lambert didn't.

Nor did recent examples like Ollie Watkins and Patrick Bamford.

Do you think it will take Ivan Toney a season? If not for him... then why for Adam Armstrong?

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LOL, Patrick Bamford had already had multiple, largely unsuccessful, seasons in the Premier league before this one (insert @Turkish Mr Wrong image). 

[SKD]

  On 06/07/2021 at 19:33, Hodgey said:

Most of those players were with the same team / style. Much harder to adjust to a new league / style / team. Plus Bamford and Watkins had Rafina and Grealish to feed them - we have Redmond.

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Yep. This is the biggest issue. 
 

Even when we had an overweight, injured Austin up top we still had Tadic behind him.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 07/07/2021 at 08:18, SKD said:

Yep. This is the biggest issue. 
 

Even when we had an overweight, injured Austin up top we still had Tadic behind him.

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Who got slaughtered most of the season bar last 6 games

[Saint Garrett]

Looks like the complete striker to me, I'd be really keen to see him join.

[TWar]

  On 07/07/2021 at 08:12, Saint86 said:

Also really wouldn't agree with this at all - seriously unfair on the quality of goals he's scored and actually ignores his off the ball movement and the positions he takes up. Basically a very negative outlook to take.

Its a good mixture of long shots, 1on1 placed finishes, shots from just inside the box, couple of tap ins, penalties, diving headers. He's got pace, movement, and he's a goalscorer - a good one. Put him in a yolo hassenhuttle team and he's getting goals.

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Phenomenally two footed in all the best ways, uses two feet to dribble more effectively, can quickly adjust his stance to change how the ball approaches him, and has power in both feet not just accuracy. Looks very good from this. Would love to see him line up next to Adams, with Adams hold up play and passing and this guys pace a flexible finishing we'd really be on to something.

[Turkish]

  On 06/07/2021 at 18:06, Matthew Le God said:

Do they? Rickie Lambert didn't.

Nor did recent examples like Ollie Watkins and Patrick Bamford.

Do you think it will take Ivan Toney a season? If not for him... then why for Adam Armstrong?

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[SKD]

  On 07/07/2021 at 08:32, Give it to Ron said:

Who got slaughtered most of the season bar last 6 games

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Saints fans are idiots though. People used to slaughter Pelle because he didn’t run around at 100 mph every single game. 
 

People didn’t realise how good that team were. 

[Pilchards]

Armstrong is so Rickie Lambert and even wears the number 7.

I remember when Che signed as I was watching his video of the goals for Birmingham. Many were daisy cutters in the bottom corner which concern me that he wouldn’t hit the ground running.

Armstrong looks like he could certainly start faster.

[Give it to Ron]

  On 07/07/2021 at 08:51, SKD said:

Saints fans are idiots though. People used to slaughter Pelle because he didn’t run around at 100 mph every single game. 
 

People didn’t realise how good that team were. 

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Very true on this thread alone we have someone saying that Armstrong only scores tap ins an fat Austin is mentioned 

[TWar]

  On 07/07/2021 at 08:51, SKD said:

Saints fans are idiots though. People used to slaughter Pelle because he didn’t run around at 100 mph every single game. 
 

People didn’t realise how good that team were. 

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People used to criticise Pelle because he was wildly inconsistent. Like in 2014/15 where he went 14 games (4 months) without a goal or assist. He scored 6 goals in his first 8 games and then only 6 more in his next 30 that season. Same the following year, he scored 5 goals in his first 8 games and then again only six in the remaining 30 games. He had a horrible habit of starting strong and then crashing around december.

He was good but lets not rewrite history, Saints fans had every reason to be critical.

Edited 7 July, 2021 by TWar

[The Curse of St Mary's]

Armstrong certainly looks a more natural finisher than Adams. PL is a huge step up though so no guarantees but at £15m he'd probably be worth a gamble. Him and Adams with a adequate Ings replacement (when ever that be) would be ok I think.