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Summer Transfer Window 2021

Dusic

By Dusic
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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 20/05/2021 at 20:21, DT said:

Really hope this comes off and isn’t a replacement for JWP (Spurs?) or Romeu (J-league? (Isn’t he learning Japanese ?). If genuine addition and we’re not gazumped, we’ll done Saints

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As the season draws to a close, we can look forward to another summer where this guy can interpret every piece of transfer news for any given club as evidence that one of our players is leaving.

  • Haha 3
egg

egg

Posted
Posted
  On 20/05/2021 at 19:15, Dusic said:

We didn't spend the money to sign Diallo and make him a 5th choice CM and 6th choice #10.

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We didn't sign him for that, but now he's here, that seems to be where he fits. He's not physical enough as a 6 or creative enough as a 10. Someone like Delaney is needed at 6 to improve us there.

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 20/05/2021 at 19:15, Dusic said:

We didn't spend the money to sign Diallo and make him a 5th choice CM and 6th choice #10.

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He won't be. This guy replaces Romeu in his role, Romeu drops to 4th choice, Diallo steadily improves to 3rd choice and plays against sides that are hard to break down and we need someone more press resistant. It's a squad game.

austsaint

austsaint

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 06:31, egg said:

We didn't sign him for that, but now he's here, that seems to be where he fits. He's not physical enough as a 6 or creative enough as a 10. Someone like Delaney is needed at 6 to improve us there.

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You may be right - but I think Diallo will improve rapidly next season; he's not really that far away now, particularly in the CM role.    A player like Delaney would give the Club great depth and variety in midfield

WALK DMC

WALK DMC

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 07:37, TWar said:

He won't be. This guy replaces Romeu in his role, Romeu drops to 4th choice, Diallo steadily improves to 3rd choice and plays against sides that are hard to break down and we need someone more press resistant. It's a squad game.

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I think we write off Romeu too quickly. We have missed him in his recent absence, so dropping to 4th choice to quickly could be a mistake. He is 29, so not too old and he has never had any pace, so won't decline as quickly as some. 

I think the key will be to get the right combination. JWP & Diallo just don't seem to work as well together and maybe Diallo needs a bit of physical muscle to complement his pace.  If we were to get Thomas Delaney it wouldn't surprise me that JWP just became the new Right Back cover ......     

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 21/05/2021 at 08:54, WALK DMC said:

I think we write off Romeu too quickly. We have missed him in his recent absence, so dropping to 4th choice to quickly could be a mistake. He is 29, so not too old and he has never had any pace, so won't decline as quickly as some. 

I think the key will be to get the right combination. JWP & Diallo just don't seem to work as well together and maybe Diallo needs a bit of physical muscle to complement his pace.  If we were to get Thomas Delaney it wouldn't surprise me that JWP just became the new Right Back cover ......     

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JWP is in my opinion our best player, he covers the most ground, his set pieces win us about 10-15 points a season, he is an excellent progressive passer, and he is our captain. On top of that he has 15 goal involvements this term while pumping out 56 defensive actions this season, same as Fabinho and one more than Rice, second most recoveries of any player in the league. There is no chance at all he is dropped imo.

Edited by TWar
  • Like 5
WALK DMC

WALK DMC

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 08:54, WALK DMC said:

I think we write off Romeu too quickly. We have missed him in his recent absence, so dropping to 4th choice to quickly could be a mistake. He is 29, so not too old and he has never had any pace, so won't decline as quickly as some. 

I think the key will be to get the right combination. JWP & Diallo just don't seem to work as well together and maybe Diallo needs a bit of physical muscle to complement his pace.  If we were to get Thomas Delaney it wouldn't surprise me that JWP just became the new Right Back cover ......     

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  On 21/05/2021 at 08:58, TWar said:

JWP is in my opinion our best player, he covers the most ground, his set pieces win us about 10-15 points a season, he is an excellent progressive passer, and he is our captain. On top of that he has 15 goal involvements this term while pumping out 56 defensive actions this season, same as Fabinho and one more than Rice, second most recoveries of any player in the league. There is no chance at all he is dropped imo.

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Excuse me,  I didn't explain myself well enough. I wasn't suggesting that they drop JWP, just that we find the right partner for him when he plays at central midfield. However, my main point is that were we to spend money on another centre midfielder, then we might not buy a deputy for KWP because we would have extra cover in midfield so JWP could play RB if KWP was injured.  I have no insight on our budget, but I suspect it isn't substantial so we will probably make compromises and having players covering multiple positions might be one way of balancing the books.   

And yes, I don't like square pegs in round holes, but until we have some proper investment ......

TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 09:45, WALK DMC said:

 

Excuse me,  I didn't explain myself well enough. I wasn't suggesting that they drop JWP, just that we find the right partner for him when he plays at central midfield. However, my main point is that were we to spend money on another centre midfielder, then we might not buy a deputy for KWP because we would have extra cover in midfield so JWP could play RB if KWP was injured.  I have no insight on our budget, but I suspect it isn't substantial so we will probably make compromises and having players covering multiple positions might be one way of balancing the books.   

And yes, I don't like square pegs in round holes, but until we have some proper investment ......

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Oh OK I get you, my bad, sorry I thought you ment to make "back-up RB" JWP's primary role.

SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 08:58, TWar said:

JWP is in my opinion our best player, he covers the most ground, his set pieces win us about 10-15 points a season, he is an excellent progressive passer, and he is our captain. On top of that he has 15 goal involvements this term while pumping out 56 defensive actions this season, same as Fabinho and one more than Rice, second most recoveries of any player in the league. There is no chance at all he is dropped imo.

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JWP better than Ings? No chance. Ings is our best player by a long, long way. 
 

Providing Romeu is fit, We could cope without JWP. Without ings we really, really struggle. 

  • Like 2
TWar

TWar

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 10:55, SKD said:

JWP better than Ings? No chance. Ings is our best player by a long, long way. 
 

Providing Romeu is fit, We could cope without JWP. Without ings we really, really struggle. 

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They are pretty level. Both top top players. Ings when fully fit for an entire season is one of the best strikers in the league so probably would be him, but him remaining fully fit is a big ask. If asked who I would rather retain of the two and who I would sell I'd definitely keep JWP purely because of his safety and consistency, whilst still being a top top player. I actually don't know how we would cope without JWP as we haven't ever had to find out since Ralph came in and made him what he currently is.

  • Like 2
Gingeletiss

Gingeletiss

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 10:55, SKD said:

JWP better than Ings? No chance. Ings is our best player by a long, long way. 
 

Providing Romeu is fit, We could cope without JWP. Without ings we really, really struggle. 

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How can you say that, when JWP never misses a game, so you can't make a comparison!

  • Like 1
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 07:21, woodsaint1 said:

How do you know #oohdanishfriends

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Because he’s not some teenager from a provincial Peruvian town who needs some familiarity to help settle in. He’s a senior, professional football negotiating a multi-million pound contract. He speaks English. He doesn’t need some other Viking to discuss lusty maidens with over buckets of Tuborg.

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Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 11:51, Lighthouse said:

Because he’s not some teenager from a provincial Peruvian town who needs some familiarity to help settle in. He’s a senior, professional football negotiating a multi-million pound contract. He speaks English. He doesn’t need some other Viking to discuss lusty maidens with over buckets of Tuborg.

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It's a bit like Les Reed's genius move of buying Hoedt to keep Van Dijk company. Worked a charm, that one!

  • Sad 1
Charlie Wayman

Charlie Wayman

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 21/05/2021 at 11:04, TWar said:

They are pretty level. Both top top players. Ings when fully fit for an entire season is one of the best strikers in the league so probably would be him, but him remaining fully fit is a big ask. If asked who I would rather retain of the two and who I would sell I'd definitely keep JWP purely because of his safety and consistency, whilst still being a top top player. I actually don't know how we would cope without JWP as we haven't ever had to find out since Ralph came in and made him what he currently is.

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There is chance we could be a much better team without him. At the moment it seems every player has been given instructions to give the ball to JWP in the middle third but by making him the only pivot and creator we can be missing out massively on the teams natural flair and creativity. I'd like to see one game without him on the pitch to see how our fortunes change.

Edited by Charlie Wayman
tajjuk

tajjuk

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 21/05/2021 at 10:55, SKD said:

JWP better than Ings? No chance. Ings is our best player by a long, long way. 
 

Providing Romeu is fit, We could cope without JWP. Without ings we really, really struggle. 

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Disagree completely. JWP has basically made himself irreplaceable over the last few years, he is easily on par in ability IMO and is actually worth more to us because of the fact he is always available and so consistent.

The simple fact we struggle without Ings shows one of his problems, he is too often not actually there to contribute to the team, whereas Ward-Prowse IS and consistently performs relentlessly, he even fills in other positions if needed and STILL plays well.

In 3 years Ings has started 80 games for us and played 6,584 minutes.

In the same 3 years JWP has started 96 games and played 8,692 minutes, he hasn't missed a MINUTE of football in 2 whole seasons, that is incredible levels of fitness, consistency and professionalism. 

You haven't seen us without JWP because he never misses a damn minute. His set piece delivery is basically unmatched in the league, he is worth it alone for that (and has pretty much matched Ings for goal contributions this year), his work rate is massive, he is our captain but also the guy that basically interprets the manager's instructions on the pitch, he links the midfield excellently, his progressive passing is massively important to how we play, he is excellent at breaking up play and starting attacks. 

If we had to replace one over the other, I actually think it would be more difficult to replace what JWP offers in one package than it would be Ings, excellent player though he is there is plenty history of teams of our level finding good striking gems out there who score 15+ goals in the league with breaking record transfers. We've done it enough times ourselves - Beattie, Pahars, Pelle, Lambert and Ings himself.

 

 

Edited by tajjuk
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verlaine1979

verlaine1979

Posted
Posted

Not devaluing JWPs contribution, and there may be stats that prove me wrong. But I'd say he's actually the least progressive passer in our midfield? I notice Romeu and Diallo both looking for a forward pass more often than Ward-Prowse, as does Armstrong when he's playing in the middle. Aside from his lack of pace, it's probably the one thing you can hold against him - he's so determined to protect the ball that his body shape often demands a sideways pass rather than a forward one.

  • Like 1
SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted (edited)

Re: positions to target in the transfer market:

“Fullbacks, wingers & other positions” said Ralph in presser.

“No.6” not as urgent. 

Edited by SuperSAINT
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 21/05/2021 at 11:56, Useful Idiot said:

It's a bit like Les Reed's genius move of buying Hoedt to keep Van Dijk company. Worked a charm, that one!

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  On 21/05/2021 at 12:01, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

We have form for that even pre Les. Think Imants Bleidelis and Kleber Chala...

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I feel like MLG here but it is not really comparable.

Virgil had already been in Scotland for two seasons and with us for two more before Hoedt turned up. He hardly needed a friend to help him settle in. Kleber Chala didn't cost £15m.

Edited by CB Fry
Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 22:02, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Did we really bring in Hoedt to keep Van Dijk company or is this one of those Saintsweb fictions?

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It's a SWF work of fiction. Just like:

  • Jermaine Wright's 'must play if fit' contract.
  • Jose Fonte being forced out of the club
  • Ralph only plays Minamino because Klopp told him off and we were very scared and do whatever Liverpool tell us.
  • If we'd waited another month to sell Mane, we'd have got £60m.
  • Sofiane Boufal was never given a fair chance.
  • There's a real chance of Fulham overhauling a 10 point deficit in 4 games.
Appy

Appy

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 22:10, Lighthouse said:

It's a SWF work of fiction. Just like:

  • Jermaine Wright's 'must play if fit' contract.
  • Jose Fonte being forced out of the club
  • Ralph only plays Minamino because Klopp told him off and we were very scared and do whatever Liverpool tell us.
  • If we'd waited another month to sell Mane, we'd have got £60m.
  • Sofiane Boufal was never given a fair chance.
  • There's a real chance of Fulham overhauling a 10 point deficit in 4 games.
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Don't forget Hesketh and Sims should be given a chance.

SNSUN

SNSUN

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 08:58, TWar said:

JWP is in my opinion our best player, he covers the most ground, his set pieces win us about 10-15 points a season, he is an excellent progressive passer, and he is our captain. On top of that he has 15 goal involvements this term while pumping out 56 defensive actions this season, same as Fabinho and one more than Rice, second most recoveries of any player in the league. There is no chance at all he is dropped imo.

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I agree he is our most important player (not best, in terms of best at their role then I would probably say Ings) and our engine, and in no way will he be dropped...

 

...IF he stays. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if he weren't here at the start of next season, and Delaney is more a replacement than a partner. All IMO of course and probably a conversation for another day, but he's a jewel in our crown and we all know what SFC does to jewels in our crown. The money he would fetch alone would fund for a bloody good rebuild of the squad at the prices we tend to pay for players.

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 22:10, Lighthouse said:

It's a SWF work of fiction. Just like:

  • Jermaine Wright's 'must play if fit' contract.
  • Jose Fonte being forced out of the club
  • Ralph only plays Minamino because Klopp told him off and we were very scared and do whatever Liverpool tell us.
  • If we'd waited another month to sell Mane, we'd have got £60m.
  • Sofiane Boufal was never given a fair chance.
  • There's a real chance of Fulham overhauling a 10 point deficit in 4 games.
Expand  

 

Morgan Schneiderlin was an Arsenal player from the very start, just on loan to us in a secret deal. As soon as he gets any good he will join them.

Roo1976

Roo1976

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 07:44, austsaint said:

You may be right - but I think Diallo will improve rapidly next season; he's not really that far away now, particularly in the CM role.    A player like Delaney would give the Club great depth and variety in midfield

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Delaney is 29 ffs..........i know Walcott is 32 or something ,so what are we hoping for experience, muscle,backbone or just a calming influence on our fragile mind set?

or is it the price range?.A lot of housekeeping and all that before we get excited as to who might be here for next season.

Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted
  On 21/05/2021 at 22:10, Lighthouse said:

It's a SWF work of fiction. Just like:

  • Jermaine Wright's 'must play if fit' contract.
  • Jose Fonte being forced out of the club
  • Ralph only plays Minamino because Klopp told him off and we were very scared and do whatever Liverpool tell us.
  • If we'd waited another month to sell Mane, we'd have got £60m.
  • Sofiane Boufal was never given a fair chance.
  • There's a real chance of Fulham overhauling a 10 point deficit in 4 games.
Expand  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eurosport.com/football/southampton-sign-wesley-hoedt-to-play-alongside-virgil-van-dijk_sto6297565/story-amp.shtml

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
  On 22/05/2021 at 06:44, Useful Idiot said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eurosport.com/football/southampton-sign-wesley-hoedt-to-play-alongside-virgil-van-dijk_sto6297565/story-amp.shtml

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Yes, we know.

Thats not the same as Kleber Chala and Imants Bleidelis. Virgil had signed for us two seasons before.

The main reason they went big on "he's going to play WITH Virgil" was to counter the rumours that Hoedt was the replacement and proof we were about to sell Van Dijk that window.

 

Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted
  On 22/05/2021 at 06:52, CB Fry said:

Yes, we know.

Thats not the same as Kleber Chala and Imants Bleidelis. Virgil had signed for us two seasons before.

The main reason they went big on "he's going to play WITH Virgil" was to counter the rumours that Hoedt was the replacement and proof we were about to sell Van Dijk that window.

 

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So you mean it's a similar situation to the idea I replied to when I posted the initial message in response to the idea that Delaney might be being signed to keep Vest. company?

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/05/2021 at 07:00, Useful Idiot said:

So you mean it's a similar situation to the idea I replied to when I posted the initial message in response to the idea that Delaney might be being signed to keep Vest. company?

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You'll have to show me that post. All I can see is this:

  On 21/05/2021 at 11:56, Useful Idiot said:

It's a bit like Les Reed's genius move of buying Hoedt to keep Van Dijk company. Worked a charm, that one!

Expand  

Where the premise is completely false. Hoedt wasn't bought to keep company with an older Dutch man who had already been living in Britain for four years.

Edited by CB Fry
Useful Idiot

Useful Idiot

Posted
Posted
  On 22/05/2021 at 07:19, CB Fry said:

You'll have to show me that post. All I can see is this:

Where the premise is completely false. Hoedt wasn't bought to keep company with an older Dutch man who had already been living in Britain for four years.

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Woodsaint posted: "Hopefully Delaney signing would convince Vestergaard to extend his contract as well 🤞🏼"

To which Lighthouse replied: "It wont have any effect."

To which Woodhouse stated: "How do you know #oohdanishfriends"

Lighthouse then posted "Because he’s not some teenager from a provincial Peruvian town who needs some familiarity to help settle in. He’s a senior, professional football negotiating a multi-million pound contract. He speaks English. He doesn’t need some other Viking to discuss lusty maidens with over buckets of Tuborg. "

To which I replied:

"It's a bit like Les Reed's genius move of buying Hoedt to keep Van Dijk company. Worked a charm, that one!"

 

There you go!

CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 22/05/2021 at 07:33, Useful Idiot said:

Woodsaint posted: "Hopefully Delaney signing would convince Vestergaard to extend his contract as well 🤞🏼"

To which Lighthouse replied: "It wont have any effect."

To which Woodhouse stated: "How do you know #oohdanishfriends"

Lighthouse then posted "Because he’s not some teenager from a provincial Peruvian town who needs some familiarity to help settle in. He’s a senior, professional football negotiating a multi-million pound contract. He speaks English. He doesn’t need some other Viking to discuss lusty maidens with over buckets of Tuborg. "

To which I replied:

"It's a bit like Les Reed's genius move of buying Hoedt to keep Van Dijk company. Worked a charm, that one!"

 

There you go!

Expand  

I agree with Lighthouse, of course.

I still have no idea that you need to pretend there was a "genius move" around Hoedt when that wasn't even a concept at the time, no one breathing air believed he was signed to make Virgil stay.

You're using it as proof of a failed idea (including posting up that link) but it wasn't an idea and no one at all thought it was.

Edited by CB Fry
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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
  On 22/05/2021 at 07:37, CB Fry said:

I agree with Lighthouse, of course.

I still have no idea that you need to pretend there was a "genius move" around Hoedt when that wasn't even a concept at the time, no one breathing air believed he was signed to make Virgil stay.

You're using it as proof of a failed idea (including posting up that link) but it wasn't an idea and no one at all thought it was.

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if anyone was signed just to give Van Dijk a Dutch friend that they could go out for a couple of Henikens with then Jordy Claise was signed the same summer as Van Dijk, who is like you know Dutch. But Claise wasn’t signed just to be Van Dijks Dutch friend either. The idea anyone was is complete bollox. 

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