Leeds 3-0 Saints - Match Thread

[Ed Rooney]

Midfield weak as piss.... poor Romeu 

[Ed Rooney]

4 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Did JWP duck out of the way of that free-kick?

Yep

[BotleySaint]

Just now, Ed Rooney said:

Yep

Already 2-0 by that point with the game gone. No point getting injured

[Ed Rooney]

Just now, BotleySaint said:

Already 2-0 by that point with the game gone. No point getting injured

May aswell get injured tbh 

[Roo1976]

5 minutes ago, Pamplemousse said:

We have to question the lack of plan B.

Either Ralph has no idea what to change, OR he needs new people around him.

 

Again trying to put square pegs in round holes ,trying to be smart NO. If your training to be a specific position in a team and you get over looked whats the reason?When Romeu came off it should have  been Jako and not Bambi on ice (even more so on that pitch) djenepo. We are still so ponderous on the ball ,lack of movement off it and yet we are clearly getting smashed again . The tables getting closer to being a big problem  whenever we loose. Relegation is now looming .We have a team that haven't scored a goal  in the second half of any game in the league since we beat Sheff utd 3-0 , i think 12 games now, Ralph somethings wrong mate . Stop playing players out of positions ,if we loose and there's no positional players wrong then ..................i don't know .Seen the next few fixtures and they aren't great are they .Combined aggregate score for the next 3 could be in the realms of getting an accountant in, just to check we are still operating as a PL  club and not some Sunday league outfit .Love the Saints but this is rough times atm and shows no sign of changing. Btw for what its worth didnt think Tella should have made way either, rather than Adams, but when your making a 1st team debut its easy for the manager to choose another easy option .Ralph sort it out, you also need an assistant to giude and cajole for ideas someone to bounce off.

[Baird of the land]

4 minutes ago, The Curse of St Mary's said:

McCarthy may have made some good saves but I'm thinking he should have done better on all three goals. Easy to blame him for what was a total shit show from the team. 

Not sure what he could have done better for first two.

[Teddeer]

Ralph is a one trick pony I am afraid. He got well and truly schooled today. Leeds worked out at half time how slow our two full backs are so pushed a wide man down each side and just tore us apart. And what did Ralph do....absolutely nothing! Our coaches are not switched on enough. They make no tactical changes nor do they react when our opponents switch things around. These games and performances are becoming embarrassing.  We are weak all over the pitch and in the dug out. Need to fluke a few wins against the weaker sides we have left to play. Right now this bunch of no-hopers is the poorest team in the league.

[Convict Colony]

Alternative view alert - I thought on the whole we were alright.

Thought defence and both central mids worked hard, Romeu was quality.

The biggest difference was their clinical finishing when they had opportunities where as we couldn't finish in a gang bang.

Our front 4 just are not clicking.

 

[Teddeer]

1 minute ago, Convict Colony said:

Alternative view alert - I thought on the whole we were alright.

Thought defence and both central mids worked hard, Romeu was quality.

The biggest difference was their clinical finishing when they had opportunities where as we couldn't finish in a gang bang.

Our front 4 just are not clicking.

 

They beat us 3-0 and it should have been more.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

I just don't get resting our only likely sources of goals - Ings and Minamino - for the most winnable game we have out of Chelsea, Leeds and Everton. Can't work out whether it's totally underestimating Leeds or overestimating the ability of their replacements. Everyone knows our game plan is to get in front and hope to hang on so to not even try and get in front is bizarre. Bednarek is not a right back and not even a competent stand-in one either. We have 4 fit centre backs why not be pragmatic and go to 3 at the back and play with wing backs at least until KWP is fit again. There's no resilience in the side to cope with bad decisions or conceding a goal and it seems to be a cumulative effect from several poor seasons save for the start of the first lockdown. Even in the Redknapp relegation season at least there was some spirit in the side but there's nothing in this lot. If were to slip into the relegation places, I see no evidence there is enough fight to try to get out of it. A thoroughly depressing effort. Again...

[Convict Colony]

Just now, Teddeer said:

They beat us 3-0 and it should have been more.

Yeah and all their goals were good finishes 

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

1 minute ago, Convict Colony said:

Alternative view alert - I thought on the whole we were alright.

Thought defence and both central mids worked hard, Romeu was quality.

The biggest difference was their clinical finishing when they had opportunities where as we couldn't finish in a gang bang.

Our front 4 just are not clicking.

 

They're not going to click when Ralph leaves, Minamino, Ings and Djenepo on the bench. Redmond couldn't hit a barn door. Adams scores once in a blue moon and Tella had never started a league game. Utterly bizarre decisions. The buck stops with Ralph. He got that totally wrong tonight. The minute I saw the line up I knew we'd come away with nothing.

 

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Yeah and all their goals were good finishes 

That second half was as bad as the two 9-0s. We could very easily have let in 6/7 in 45 minutes without a couple of decent saves and some wasteful finishing.

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Yeah and all their goals were good finishes 

If you think we defended properly, you’re deluded. 

[Shroppie]

It could have been very different. We were decent in the first half. Tella was impressive - our best forward. Why he went off and Adams stayed on I don’t understand. If either of Vest’s headers had gone in, if the ref had allowed Che’s goal.

The pitch didn’t help. Not sure Che had any studs, but we were falling over whenever we tried to change direction or push off quickly. You can’t play tippy-tappy football on a pitch like that and we were doing better with longer more direct passes. I also think it influenced the subs: very easy to get injured on that surface and Ralph was worried. When you look at how Romeu caught his studs and damaged himself, you can see why. Big loss and worrying.

Danny didn’t get into it. Armstrong some nice runs but no end product. Mccarthy didn’t cover himself in glory. The team selection gamble didn’t really fail as we looked far worse after the changes.

Bednarek is a good CB and useless RB. Next game must try Ramsey or three at the back with Bertrand and Djenepo as wing backs. And remember the last game Romeu was out and Jankewitz covered?

I’m worried the team have got a persecution complex now. All the VAR decisions and the non-goal tonight. There’s a desperate need for leadership and real determination. I thought we’d got that on Saturday, but it’s vanished. No confidence.

[SaintsEK]

You know what, this is ridiculous! 1 win in 13 games and 1 point in our last 8 games just takes the piss! Yeah you know it doesn’t help with having shit officials and VAR always giving the incorrect decisions when for us but always gives the correct ones against us (the pen today!) as yeah we’d of certainly gotten more points, and yeah we needed more players and such with our injury crisis which is down to a shit owner and bad luck whether I for shit pitches or injuries! But in the end 1 POINT! Out of 8 games or just 1 win in 13 games just takes the piss! I mean if it wasn’t for our amazing start we’d be in Fulhams position and the only real difference between either of our seasons currently is that we’re still in the FA cup.  

I mean he’s set some good records, yeah, but he’s also set loads of shit ones too! Like us loosing 9-0 AGAIN! Along with being the first manager to loose 6 in a row with us! We just never seen to have a plan B and after this season we’re almost certain to loose the likes of Ings and even now maybe the likes of Prowse, Peters and Vestergaard! I mean I’ve really likes him as a manager for both his personality and tactics and has certainly been our best since Koeman, but at the same time it’s not just entertainment and personality that decides a result of a football game...  

For me it’s pretty simple, if we don’t get 4 points out of our next 3 games (Everton, Sheffield United and Man City, all of which are away) then we do need to look at alternatives! I mean unless we beat Everton on Monday, if we loose to Sheffield United then Ralph just has to go! As in the end this is now just ridiculous and has to change! So unless we can beat Sheffield United and really a draw against Everton too then we need to start taking things seriously!

[Convict Colony]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

If you think we defended properly, you’re deluded. 

That's not what I said, I said their finishing was clinical and was the difference for me, we had good chances but they were squandered.

[stknowle]

2 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Ralph is a one trick pony I am afraid. He got well and truly schooled today. Leeds worked out at half time how slow our two full backs are so pushed a wide man down each side and just tore us apart. And what did Ralph do....absolutely nothing! Our coaches are not switched on enough. They make no tactical changes nor do they react when our opponents switch things around. These games and performances are becoming embarrassing.  We are weak all over the pitch and in the dug out. Need to fluke a few wins against the weaker sides we have left to play. Right now this bunch of no-hopers is the poorest team in the league.

Have to say he seems incapable of changing a game with astute tactics, on the flip side the oppo makes a positional tweak in the 2nd half and we are done. I like him, don't want him gone, don't see an abundance of better options who we could afford but he has got to arrest this slide quickly. Needs some help imho.

[gammon cheeks]

The thing that pi55es me off the most is Ralph will not change the way we play ......managers have got sacked for a lot less

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Ralph has fatal flaws imo.

If he sticks to basics and things go well he is a good manager, he has empathy with the board and the fans but, when things get tough (injuries etc) he starts being clever, square pegs in round holes etc and he digs in, eg. (never dropping Redmond who long ago stopped looking PL quality).

He left our two goalscorers on the bench today, bad mistake because at the end of the day goals win matches. (Look at Palace last night at Brighton - they had two forwards who put the ball in the net when it mattered.) Either Ings or Minamino should have started.

But do we get rid and risk another Puel/Pellegrino? Rather stick with Ralph than that. I know he hasn't had much money, but he's not learning. I can't remember a more depressing run of results in a more depressing time and while Corona is not Ralph's fault, my faith in him is evaporating.

[nta786]

Ralph’s interview:

[Bielsa said the scoreine didn’t reflect the game] “But in the end we are losing. This is the whole story of the season, it always works like this. We have chances we dont score. The goal we did score was a second too early played and it is tough to take but in this moment we need to do better”

“Leeds deserved the win they had more energy in the 2nd half. The players gave up and this is not what i want but we did exactly what we was not meant to do- gave leeds 1 v 1 duels and they take their chances”

“In 2nd half we were stretched. Before the goal we did not finish our chances. In 2nd half one player was in striker one was in number 10 position and not flexible but Leeds showed us our weakness immediately. “

“We were not good enough.”

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

That's not what I said, I said their finishing was clinical and was the difference for me, we had good chances but they were squandered.

We lost because we didn’t defend properly. 

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

13 minutes ago, Ivan Katalinic's 'tache said:

I just don't get resting our only likely sources of goals - Ings and Minamino - for the most winnable game we have out of Chelsea, Leeds and Everton. Can't work out whether it's totally underestimating Leeds or overestimating the ability of their replacements. Everyone knows our game plan is to get in front and hope to hang on so to not even try and get in front is bizarre. Bednarek is not a right back and not even a competent stand-in one either. We have 4 fit centre backs why not be pragmatic and go to 3 at the back and play with wing backs at least until KWP is fit again. There's no resilience in the side to cope with bad decisions or conceding a goal and it seems to be a cumulative effect from several poor seasons save for the start of the first lockdown. Even in the Redknapp relegation season at least there was some spirit in the side but there's nothing in this lot. If were to slip into the relegation places, I see no evidence there is enough fight to try to get out of it. A thoroughly depressing effort. Again...

Exactly this. We need to start getting some points on the board and fast. 6 weeks ago people said there was absolutely no chance of Saints being relegated and that 35 points should be enough. Just look how the odds have been slashed. The gap is now down to 8 points and we still have to play Fulham, who look like they've got a lot more fight than we have, as do the likes of Burnley. I could see it going down to the wire between us, Fulham and Brighton.
1 win in 13! 1 point in 8 games. Another 9-0 defeat! If we'd started the season with that form Ralph would be long gone. 

Edited 23 February, 2021 by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Ralph has fatal flaws imo.

If he sticks to basics and things go well he is a good manager, he has empathy with the board and the fans but, when things get tough (injuries etc) he starts being clever, square pegs in round holes etc and he digs in, eg. (never dropping Redmond who long ago stopped looking PL quality).

He left our two goalscorers on the bench today, bad mistake because at the end of the day goals win matches. (Look at Palace last night at Brighton - they had two forwards who put the ball in the net when it mattered.) Either Ings or Minamino should have started.

But do we get rid and risk another Puel/Pellegrino? Rather stick with Ralph than that. I know he hasn't had much money, but he's not learning. I can't remember a more depressing run of results in a more depressing time and while Corona is not Ralph's fault, my faith in him is evaporating.

He has to be clever because we don't have the depth, that's the issue.

To be fair, I think the shake up worked to a point - I liked Tella on the left, he worked quite well there. Unfortunately we still had Redmond starting.

We just don't have the quality of squad, and certainly not the depth. If we have injuries or key players dropping off of form...we are struggling big style.

[Chapel End]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

He has to be clever because we don't have the depth, that's the issue.

To be fair, I think the shake up worked to a point - I liked Tella on the left, he worked quite well there. Unfortunately we still had Redmond starting.

We just don't have the quality of squad, and certainly not the depth. If we have injuries or key players dropping off of form...we are struggling big style.

I`m glad you are on here S-Clarke, you do post complete sense

[Trout-Tickler]

What exactly is the Plan B people want to see? Getting it into the mixer quick and early long ball style?

[Whitey Grandad]

24 minutes ago, obelisk said:

Did JWP duck out of the way of that free-kick?

He left it for McCarthy 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Trout-Tickler said:

What exactly is the Plan B people want to see? Getting it into the mixer quick and early long ball style?

Lots of chat about Plan B, but it never usually works like that. We have multiple plans during a game, but none are working at the moment.

It's easier to describe it as a philosophy, and you don't have 'philosophy' b. You have a philosophy, you stick to it and you alter that in game as and when is fit. But nothing, absolutely nothing is working for us.

If we do go down the 'hit it long' 'get it in the box' route, then it rips up any philosophy and everything that has been worked on - and it's not all bad.

[Ed Rooney]

1 minute ago, Whitey Grandad said:

He left it for McCarthy 

As you do 

[Convict Colony]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We lost because we didn’t defend properly. 

Conversely we lost because we couldn't execute our attacks properly.

We are more likely to have good games defensively based on this season than good games attacking in my view.

We all know if we go behind we are going to struggle, it's been apparent since Ings first injury period.

Squad depth and.backing.for the manager is my main gripe.

Edited 23 February, 2021 by Convict Colony

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

I`m glad you are on here S-Clarke, you do post complete sense

Don't get me wrong, I feel proper low at the moment. As low as I've felt about us for a long, long time, but people need to see the bigger picture and not just jump on Ralph.

It's too quick a football fan reaction.  ''New manager needed''. The players always seem to be absorbed of blame, but this bunch have in the main, bar a 12 month spell, been absolutely crap for 5 years.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, Ed Rooney said:

As you do 

Keeper’s ball all day long.

[obelisk]

I suspect Saints will manage to grab enough points to avoid sliding into the bottom 3 this season but it's next season that I'm worrying about. Any decent Saints players are not going to enjoy losing every week so will likely be off. Likewise the prospect of another struggle next season won't attract talent either.

[M271]

We played right into Leeds hands, 2 of their goals were typical Leeds breakaway goals and the free kick goal was from a similar break away. I think that we should have played in a similar way as against Chelsea, less gung ho and more compact.

The problem is that when the 'easier' matches come along our confidence will be shot and we could struggle even in those games.

[Mr X]

16 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

The thing that pi55es me off the most is Ralph will not change the way we play ......managers have got sacked for a lot less

When you think about it it's a miracle he's still here, he must be the luckiest manager in existence, two nine Nils, worst points dropped from winning positions of any club, worst losing streak, one point in eight games, there's not a club in this league that wouldn't have pulled the trigger on that, that said he's had his hands tied, and that said these players are capable of better than he's got from them, he had us playing well but teams quickly learnt how to counter act our style ,& he's had no absolutely no answer to that. 

[Teddeer]

2 minutes ago, M271 said:

We played right into Leeds hands, 2 of their goals were typical Leeds breakaway goals and the free kick goal was from a similar break away. I think that we should have played in a similar way as against Chelsea, less gung ho and more compact.

The problem is that when the 'easier' matches come along our confidence will be shot and we could struggle even in those games.

Yes, the other thing Bielsa realised was that we are not very good with the ball so Leeds were quite happy to let us have it and bide their time then catch us on the break. That was their lowest possession percentage this season. 

[Micky]

Got out of jail a bit today, let's be honest that could easily have been 6, 7 or even worse again.  For all of our dominance and possession in the first half hour we created absolute nothing.  All our energy is put into the first half and we're blowing out of our asses in the second.

Let's be honest, everybody wants to play us at the moment, we are an easy 3 points.  You could see after the first goal we were shot to pieces, heads went down very quickly.   I really can't see where the next points will come from, Everton and City will shit all over us, and I'm not sure who will win the battle with Sheffield United.  I can't see Bournemouth being too disappointed that the have us in the cup as well, they'll fancy their chances. 

I haven't spoken about any players tonight because it's really not worth it, we have problems all over the pitch and on the bench.  We are both mentally and physically weak as soon as things go against us,  when was the last time we recovered from going behind,  how many times have we lost from being in front? 

We were absolutely dog shyte tonight over the course of the game, but that unfortunately is now the norm for us.  Relegation beckons. 

Edited 23 February, 2021 by Micky

[doc oli]

Yes every team has injuries but we’ve been so unlucky with ours. At the start of the season the team picked itself, was well drilled and knew exactly what it was doing. Perhaps if anything can be levelled at the coaching is that it was too focussed on that 11, their presses and movements etc, and the constant changes just hasn’t allowed a new settled pattern to emerge. Adams isn’t the heap of shit everyone thinks he is, Ings had fucking covid- he’s very likely still post-covid (as Armstrong was and has only just rediscovered his energy). A new manager would not get more out of this shattered bunch. 

[Appy]

35 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Not sure what he could have done better for first two.

Got down to the first quicker? Like most good goalkeepers would, Bamford hardly smashed it. 

[S-Clarke]

Just now, doc oli said:

Yes every team has injuries but we’ve been so unlucky with ours. At the start of the season the team picked itself, was well drilled and knew exactly what it was doing. Perhaps if anything can be levelled at the coaching is that it was too focussed on that 11, their presses and movements etc, and the constant changes just hasn’t allowed a new settled pattern to emerge. Adams isn’t the heap of shit everyone thinks he is, Ings had fucking covid- he’s very likely still post-covid (as Armstrong was and has only just rediscovered his energy). A new manager would not get more out of this shattered bunch. 

I dunno, other teams have had pretty bad injury spells to be honest.

Newcastle for one, Wolves haven't had it too easy either with their injuries at certain points. The difference in both, even Newcastle I'd say, is the squad depth - the experience in the depth to come in and fill a hole. We just have kids.

Our form derailed because of injuries, for sure....but we haven't been able to halt it because the squad is poor.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I dunno, other teams have had pretty bad injury spells to be honest.

Newcastle for one, Wolves haven't had it too easy either with their injuries at certain points. The difference in both, even Newcastle I'd say, is the squad depth - the experience in the depth to come in and fill a hole. We just have kids.

Our form derailed because of injuries, for sure....but we haven't been able to halt it because the squad is poor.

Leeds had their best player out tonight, only one won game without him. Yes we had a couple but it wasn’t a particularly weak team and we were able to bring on two good players, yet still got a good beating.

[Appy]

Yet again the team crumbles when they perceive a decision to go against us, their mentality is all wrong, soft as shite when the going gets tough. 

[sadoldgit]

9 minutes ago, Micky said:

Got out of jail a bit today, let's be honest that could easily have been 6, 7 or even worse again.  For all of our dominance and possession in the first half hour we created absolute nothing.  All our energy is put into the first half and we're blowing out of our asses in the second.

Let's be honest, everybody wants to play us at the moment, we are an easy 3 points.  You could see after the first goal we were shot to pieces, heads went down very quickly.   I really can't see where the next points will come from, Everton and City will shit all over us, and I'm not sure who will win the battle with Sheffield United. 

I haven't spoken about any players tonight because it's really not worth it, we have problems all over the pitch and on the bench.  We are both mentally and physically weak as soon as things go against us,  when was the last time we recovered from going behind,  how many times have we lost from being in front. 

We were absolutely dog shyte tonight over the course of the game, but that unfortunately is now the norm for us.  Relegation beckons. 

We played well in the first half without making the most of our chances.

[Saint Billy]

Why is it that our opposing managers always seem to make tactical changes at half time that change the game and yet we seem to go from bad to worse.

It pains me to lump criticism at Ralphs doorstep given the injuries and the lack of investment but I think he has to shoulder some of the responsibility for these dire performances. Two 9-0 losses in two seasons is unimaginable and frankly criminal, even a none league club losing 9-0 against a top premier top would be highly embarrassed by being done by that margin.

We have become very predictable, 1st half high press, 2nd half legs gone. Come on Ralph, I genuinely want you to come good but the clock is now ticking.

[Turkish]

47 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Ralph is a one trick pony I am afraid. He got well and truly schooled today. Leeds worked out at half time how slow our two full backs are so pushed a wide man down each side and just tore us apart. And what did Ralph do....absolutely nothing! Our coaches are not switched on enough. They make no tactical changes nor do they react when our opponents switch things around. These games and performances are becoming embarrassing.  We are weak all over the pitch and in the dug out. Need to fluke a few wins against the weaker sides we have left to play. Right now this bunch of no-hopers is the poorest team in the league.

What could he have done to switch our full backs around?

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, Appy said:

Got down to the first quicker? Like most good goalkeepers would, Bamford hardly smashed it. 

It’s funny isn’t it. Had Stephens been playing and been in the same position as Vesty, he’d have got blamed by most. As he wasn’t and vesty is a forum fav,it’s the keeper fault. 
 

Im not saying he’s great, he’s average, always has been. But he’s the best we’ve got and he’s not helped by woeful defending and Golden Bollocks ducking rather than taking  one in the face. 

Edited 23 February, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, sadoldgit said:

We played well in the first half without making the most of our chances.

I'd say we did our usual. Played at arms length, without really creating enough meaningful opportunities. We were pressing well and winning the ball back well, but we didn't create anywhere near enough clear cut opportunities in that spell. That's been our problem for weeks tbh. We don't have the ability to kill teams when we have got them with the press.

Then when they inevitable improve in the 2nd half and put some pressure on us, we crumble. It's such a horrible scenario to have every, single week. It's like groundhog day.

[S-Clarke]

9 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Leeds had their best player out tonight, only one won game without him. Yes we had a couple but it wasn’t a particularly weak team and we were able to bring on two good players, yet still got a good beating.

I think we rely on our full backs a lot, so with KWP out..our width is gone pretty much, to Tella's credit he was the only one providing it today. I think KWP is one of our biggest misses to be honest.

Moving Bednarek out of the centre hasn't helped either, as it's confused the partnership which we had in there. We still had experienced players out there, but it's very much a square pegs kinda setup because we don't have the depth.

Edited 23 February, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Teddeer]

Just now, Turkish said:

What could he have done to switch our full backs around?

He should have spotted what was happening and gone to three at the back. That way at least we would have been a lot harder to break down. The manager's job is to spot these things and change our play not just stand there and watch us being torn apart by the likes of Leeds.

[Turkish]

Just now, Teddeer said:

He should have spotted what was happening and gone to three at the back. That way at least we would have been a lot harder to break down. The manager's job is to spot these things and change our play not just stand there and watch us being torn apart by the likes of Leeds.

Who would play at right back/wing back given you admit the flanks are where the problems were