LGBT+ Discussion

[Lighthouse]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

You are in danger of conflating gender reassignment surgery with Female Genital Mutilation.

This is the definition of mutilation from Wikipedia -

“Mutilation is severe damage to the body that has a ruinous effect on an individual’s quality of life. It can also refer to alterations that render something inferior, ugly, dysfunctional or imperfect. In modern times the term has an  overwhelmingly negative connotation.”

And

”Sex reassignment surgery has been called “mutilation” by critics; use of this term to describe sex reassignment surgery is often considered heavily provocative and insulting by those who are transgender.”

I expect someone like hypochondriac to make that comment about serious mental health issues, but not you.

Both of the people have a much better quality of life now that they have bodies that they are comfortable with and gender issues are obviously not down to “mental health issues.”

I have known one of these people for 20 years now. We meet in The Priory and she was a lesbian suffering from deep depression. She never mentioned not being comfortable in her body but was a boxer, played football,went fishing and was quite blokish. Some time later I received a message to say she had some news. She was now a he. Since then he has grown a beard, got married to a lovely lady and has two young children. He is so much happier and fulfilled than the miserable female that I met 20 years ago. I think both people would tell you that this was their best solution. Who are you or I to tell them otherwise? Neither of them would say that they have been “let down by society”, quite the opposite. They would feel more let down by people with attitudes like yours and hypochondriac who would deny them a better quality of life.

Your friend can deal with her issues however she likes. I’ll even call her Dave and he/him in polite conversation for the sake of being civilised but that doesn’t mean I forgo my own attachment to reality and half a billion years of the evolution of life on earth. If you think a women can take a load of testosterone supplements which cause abnormal hair growth and a deeper voice and become a man, you can have that belief but you’re talking about some other, made up definition of gender that I have no interest in and you certainly have no right to impose on the rest of society.

Your definition of mutilation it’s textbook. It’s severe, irreversible damage, done deliberately to a perfectly healthy, functioning body part. You brought up FGM; ironically those girls are still able to reproduce after this barbaric practice. It may be forced, rather than voluntary, but their organs still just about function in the way they are designed. If you find that description somewhat horrifying well… tough because the most literal and accurate word I can think of to describe what is happening. It’s a coping mechanism to a serious mental health problem, not all coping mechanisms are necessarily wise or healthy.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

You are in danger of conflating gender reassignment surgery with Female Genital Mutilation.

This is the definition of mutilation from Wikipedia -

“Mutilation is severe damage to the body that has a ruinous effect on an individual’s quality of life. It can also refer to alterations that render something inferior, ugly, dysfunctional or imperfect. In modern times the term has an  overwhelmingly negative connotation.”

And

”Sex reassignment surgery has been called “mutilation” by critics; use of this term to describe sex reassignment surgery is often considered heavily provocative and insulting by those who are transgender.”

I expect someone like hypochondriac to make that comment about serious mental health issues, but not you.

Both of the people have a much better quality of life now that they have bodies that they are comfortable with and gender issues are obviously not down to “mental health issues.”

I have known one of these people for 20 years now. We meet in The Priory and she was a lesbian suffering from deep depression. She never mentioned not being comfortable in her body but was a boxer, played football,went fishing and was quite blokish. Some time later I received a message to say she had some news. She was now a he. Since then he has grown a beard,got married to a lovely lady and has two young children. He is so much happier and fulfilled than the miserable female that I met 20 years ago. I think both people would tell you that this was their best solution. Who are you or I to tell them otherwise? Neither of them would say that they have been “let down by society”, quite the opposite. They would feel more let down by people with attitudes like yours and hypochondriac who would deny them a better quality of life.

 

This imaginary friend of yours, who coincidently is absolutely exactly a sterotype of someone who was in the wrong body what with being a boxer, football playing lesbian that was blokish but since transitioning has now grown a beard, got married to a woman and had a couple of kids now living in blissful happiness. Does their wife and kids know that they used to be a woman? I think i know what your answer is going to be which is, yes he told her straight away as soon as they met and she was so proud of him and their two lovely kids love the fact their dad is how he is and so do all their amazing friends and they are so happy and how dare you disgusting people say otherwise if it was up to you my friend would still be in the priory or dead. But tell us anyway.

Edited 29 June, 2023 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

The only difference between what soggy describes as sex reassignment surgery and fgm is the motivation of the perpetrator and the fact that the victim does not consent in the case of fgm. 

[badgerx16]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

The only difference between what soggy describes as sex reassignment surgery and fgm is the motivation of the perpetrator and the fact that the victim does not consent in the case of fgm. 

Also, gender re-assignment surgery is not carried out on children.

[hypochondriac]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Also, gender re-assignment surgery is not carried out on children.

It is in some countries. Also puberty blockers are not fully reversable and they have been given to children. It's one of the reasons the Tavistock has been shut down. 

[Turkish]

Sadly today pride month comes to an end, what been your highlight? Mine has been being Soggys imaginary trans friend

[AlexLaw76]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Sadly today pride month comes to an end, what been your highlight? Mine has been being Soggys imaginary trans friend

Do 'they' cut hair, pour pints or any other menial tasks for him?

[tdmickey3]

3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Sadly today pride month comes to an end, what been your highlight? Mine has been being Soggys imaginary trans friend

Your obsession with it is always entertaining

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Your obsession with it is always entertaining

As is yours with me Dave.

[sadoldgit]

15 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Your friend can deal with her issues however she likes. I’ll even call her Dave and he/him in polite conversation for the sake of being civilised but that doesn’t mean I forgo my own attachment to reality and half a billion years of the evolution of life on earth. If you think a women can take a load of testosterone supplements which cause abnormal hair growth and a deeper voice and become a man, you can have that belief but you’re talking about some other, made up definition of gender that I have no interest in and you certainly have no right to impose on the rest of society.

Your definition of mutilation it’s textbook. It’s severe, irreversible damage, done deliberately to a perfectly healthy, functioning body part. You brought up FGM; ironically those girls are still able to reproduce after this barbaric practice. It may be forced, rather than voluntary, but their organs still just about function in the way they are designed. If you find that description somewhat horrifying well… tough because the most literal and accurate word I can think of to describe what is happening. It’s a coping mechanism to a serious mental health problem, not all coping mechanisms are necessarily wise or healthy.

I am not trying to impose any view on the rest of society. I just think that anyone with a shred of empathy would support people who feel that they were born in the wrong body and have a chance to live the lives they feel they were born to lead.

Your view of gender is your own, but it is wrong and you seem to be stuck in the biological definition of sexuality. Things have moved on a bit.

His name is Alex by the way. He is not imaginary just as the many other trans people on the planet are not imaginary, and for those who think it is something to be ridiculed along with every other minority group you spend your time making fun of, perhaps you are the people with the issues?

By the way, in my experience, people who immediately think that you are lying when you tell them something tend to be habitual liars themselves and are projecting.

AlexLaw76 is a perfect example. When called out for being Delldays/Batman his response was “I am not that person.” He also claimed to have met me, which he hasn’t.

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I am not trying to impose any view on the rest of society. I just think that anyone with a shred of empathy would support people who feel that they were born in the wrong body and have a chance to live the lives they feel they were born to lead.

Your view of gender is your own, but it is wrong and you seem to be stuck in the biological definition of sexuality. Things have moved on a bit.

His name is Alex by the way. He is not imaginary just as the many other trans people on the planet are not imaginary, and for those who think it is something to be ridiculed along with every other minority group you spend your time making fun of, perhaps you are the people with the issues?

By the way, in my experience, people who immediately think that you are lying when you tell them something tend to be habitual liars themselves and are projecting.

AlexLaw76 is a perfect example. When called out for being Delldays/Batman his response was “I am not that person.” He also claimed to have met me, which he hasn’t.

Maybe your imaginary friend "Alex" is alexlaw76? 

by the way the reason people think you are lying is because you have a history over years of regularly being caught out bullshitting, the "that's you that is" line doesn't work Sog.

 

Edited 30 June, 2023 by Turkish

[hypochondriac]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

As is yours with me Dave.

Who is tdmickey3? I'm assuming he's an old poster with a new name. 

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Who is tdmickey3? I'm assuming he's an old poster with a new name. 

 

[tdmickey3]

32 minutes ago, Turkish said:

As is yours with me Dave.

Who is Dave, a figment of your imagination ???

[Lighthouse]

29 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I am not trying to impose any view on the rest of society. I just think that anyone with a shred of empathy would support people who feel that they were born in the wrong body and have a chance to live the lives they feel they were born to lead.

Your view of gender is your own, but it is wrong and you seem to be stuck in the biological definition of sexuality. Things have moved on a bit

Letting people live out the lives they, "feel they were born to lead," is not empathetic. Standing there saying you support all the things that people say they want to be true doesn’t make you a good person, it’s just superficial self satisfaction. Especially when that persons behaviours involve self harm and irrational, unstable behaviour. Take the MP Jamie Wallis, who said he came out as transgender after being raped, was suffering from PTSD and was involved in at least one road traffic incident, was declared unfit to drive and fled the scene. Does that sound like a wonderful, happy person just being themself or is it someone who needs serious psychiatric therapy dealing with personal trauma?

It’s one of the hardest things to do, confronting a friend or family member with serious issues and essentially telling them they’re wrong and need help, when they don’t want to hear it. It often gets rebuffed by some pretty serious gaslighting. How many people can relate to an alcoholic telling them something like, "what’s your f**king problem, why are you all so judgemental? Just because I’ve got friends and I go out having having a good time and enjoying my life, whilst you’re just a bitter loser with no life!" Paranoid schizophrenics genuinely, honestly believe voices are telling them to kill their family, they aren’t just saying that for a laugh, that’s their perceived reality. Is it real?

Things haven’t moved on a bit. There are things (I include a large section of the animal kingdom) with ovaries which produce eggs and things with testicles which produce sperm, one of each is required to create life. That is a necessary truth, always has been and is cannot be identified into or out of based on social stigma. If you have some other social idea of gender, fine but chose some different words for it so everyone is clear on what they mean.

If you think that’s outdated, what exactly is your definition of ‘gender’ and ‘woman’?

[hypochondriac]

I'll make a charitable donation if soggy can answer what a woman is properly. 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

Letting people live out the lives they, "feel they were born to lead," is not empathetic. Standing there saying you support all the things that people say they want to be true doesn’t make you a good person, it’s just superficial self satisfaction. Especially when that persons behaviours involve self harm and irrational, unstable behaviour. Take the MP Jamie Wallis, who said he came out as transgender after being raped, was suffering from PTSD and was involved in at least one road traffic incident, was declared unfit to drive and fled the scene. Does that sound like a wonderful, happy person just being themself or is it someone who needs serious psychiatric therapy dealing with personal trauma?

It’s one of the hardest things to do, confronting a friend or family member with serious issues and essentially telling them they’re wrong and need help, when they don’t want to hear it. It often gets rebuffed by some pretty serious gaslighting. How many people can relate to an alcoholic telling them something like, "what’s your f**king problem, why are you all so judgemental? Just because I’ve got friends and I go out having having a good time and enjoying my life, whilst you’re just a bitter loser with no life!" Paranoid schizophrenics genuinely, honestly believe voices are telling them to kill their family, they aren’t just saying that for a laugh, that’s their perceived reality. Is it real?

Things haven’t moved on a bit. There are things (I include a large section of the animal kingdom) with ovaries which produce eggs and things with testicles which produce sperm, one of each is required to create life. That is a necessary truth, always has been and is cannot be identified into or out of based on social stigma. If you have some other social idea of gender, fine but chose some different words for it so everyone is clear on what they mean.

If you think that’s outdated, what exactly is your definition of ‘gender’ and ‘woman’?

Telling another person they are wrong in how they feel? With all due , respect, I think they probably know better what is going on with them than you are. I can’t imagine what goes on with them but going to the extent of gender reassignment surgery is a pretty big deal and I don’t think that many people would do that on a whim, because it might be fashionable or because they have a mental disorder.We are clearly not going to agree on it but I really think you are on very weak ground when you presume to know what another person is going through when they feel that they have been born in a different body. Once upon a time they used to think that they could “cure” gay people too.

I am not disputing what constitutes a biological male or female. Gender identity is something different.

Edited 30 June, 2023 by sadoldgit
Add text

[Lighthouse]

54 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I am not disputing what constitutes a biological male or female. Gender identity is something different

Three big problems with that;

1. It isn’t true. Gender, male/female, man/woman have been around for centuries meaning biological differences. IF it’s something different, then call it something different, it’s not complicated.
2. The people who says this are always lying. They have no intention of accepting any difference between biological sex and so called ‘gender identity’. If they’re different, why do biological men want to compete in sports for biological women? Why the testosterone and oestrogen supplements? Why the surgery to remove perfectly healthy body parts? A so called male to female trans person can quite easily compete in biological men’s sport, whilst socially identifying as a woman (whatever that means) so why don’t they just do that?
3. If gender identity is different, what exactly is it? Give me a definition.

[hypochondriac]

" I think they know what is going on with themselves better than you" 

So do we apply that to anorexics? Or individuals with phantom limb syndrome? "I'd like to prevent you front starvation or from chopping off your hand but I suppose you know what is going on with yourself better than me so I'll just help you starve and get the cleaver out" 

Edited 30 June, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Telling another person they are wrong in how they feel? With all due , respect, I think they probably know better what is going on with them than you are. I can’t imagine what goes on with them but going to the extent of gender reassignment surgery is a pretty big deal and I don’t think that many people would do that on a whim, because it might be fashionable or because they have a mental disorder.We are clearly not going to agree on it but I really think you are on very weak ground when you presume to know what another person is going through when they feel that they have been born in a different body. Once upon a time they used to think that they could “cure” gay people too.

I am not disputing what constitutes a biological male or female. Gender identity is something different.

I wonder if you'd be a less of a knob if you went through a gender reassignment? Perhaps that explains a lot.

[Fan The Flames]

5 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Your obsession with it is always entertaining

Only ever know it's pride month because he mentions it.

[Fan The Flames]

28 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

" I think they know what is going on with themselves better than you" 

So do we apply that to anorexics? Or individuals with phantom limb syndrome? "I'd like to prevent you front starvation or from chopping off your hand but I suppose you know what is going on with yourself better than me so I'll just help you starve and get the cleaver out" 

They've stopped saying the same thing about gay people, well its now only he religious nutters that want to do conversion therapy.

[hypochondriac]

14 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

They've stopped saying the same thing about gay people, well its now only he religious nutters that want to do conversion therapy.

Homosexuality doesn't involve chopping off your genetalia, sterilisation, atrophy, menopause at a young age, increased cancer risk, lifelong medical treatment etc etc. 

[Lighthouse]

21 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

They've stopped saying the same thing about gay people, well its now only he religious nutters that want to do conversion therapy.

This is nothing to do with gay people, that was the original point. The concept of gender identity directly opposes the concept of sexuality. If all the people you’re attracted to can choose their gender, then you have no sexuality, be it straight or LGB.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

This is nothing to do with gay people, that was the original point. The concept of gender identity directly opposes the concept of sexuality. If all the people you’re attracted to can choose their gender, then you have no sexuality, be it straight or LGB.

I think you need to read what i was responding too.

[Turkish]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Only ever know it's pride month because he mentions it.

You need to become more inclusive if this is true.

[sadoldgit]

7 hours ago, tdmickey3 said:

Who is Dave, a figment of your imagination ???

This is one of the (many) peculiar things about the pile on crew. I have posted about my family, health matters, jobs, where I live etc and not a peep from them. If I post something concerning someone I know, have known or have met pertinent to a particular thread you can bet your mortgage that one or more will immediately be on to say that I am making it up. Why I would want to make it up, God only knows as it makes absolutely no difference to anything. Also, if I was going to the effort of making things up I would certainly make them more exciting!

Perhaps nothing here or no one is as it seems? Perhaps Turkish isn’t an international jet setting super salesman after all 🤔

Lighthouse, there is plenty of information on the internet about the difference between biological sex and gender. I am not sure if we have read the same stuff and come to different conclusions but I am not best placed to fight their corner for them. Perhaps talk to a trans person about it and get a first hand perspective?

I think you also made a comment earlier about wanting to seen as being a “good person”. It is nothing to do with that and more to do with not being a blinkered reactionary a-hole.

Edited 30 June, 2023 by sadoldgit
Added text

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

This is one of the (many) peculiar things about the pile on crew. I have posted about my family, health matters, jobs, where I live etc and not a peep from them. If I post something concerning someone I know, have known or have met pertinent to a particular thread you can bet your mortgage that one or more will immediately be on to say that I am making it up. Why I would want to make it up, God only knows as it makes absolutely no difference to anything. Also, if I was going to the effort of making things up I would certainly make them more exciting!

Perhaps nothing here or no one is as it seems? Perhaps Turkish isn’t an international jet setting super salesman after all 🤔

Lighthouse, there is plenty of information on the internet about the difference between biological sex and gender. I am not sure if we have read the same stuff and come to different conclusions but I am not best placed to fight their corner for them. Perhaps talk to a trans person about it and get a first hand perspective?

I think you also made a comment earlier about wanting to seen as being a “good person”. It is nothing to do with that and more to do with not being a blinkered reactionary a-hole.

Great question why do you?

my thoughts are because you take this place very, very seriously and your reputation on football forums is very important to you, probably because it gives you a platform and a sense of belong you lack in your real life

 

i on the other hand couldn’t give a fuck what any of your dickheads think of me so I’ve got no reason to try and impress you with lies, I certainly wouldn’t be pretending to be a salesman if I were to trying to do that. 

[whelk]

So Just Stop Oil protesters are planning to disrupt Pride march as sponsored by someone they don’t agree with. All gets complicated. Homophobic eco bastards. There must be a Venn diagram somewhere with the model protester in the middle.

Edited 1 July, 2023 by whelk

[AlexLaw76]

9 minutes ago, whelk said:

So Just Stop Oil protesters are planning to disrupt Pride march as sponsored by someone they don’t agree with. All gets complicated. Homophobic eco bastards. There must be a Venn diagram somewhere with the model protester in the middle.

I think this person is nearest to the centre.

[Turkish]

And just like that it was over for another year. Pride Month 2023 the best yet 

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈

[AlexLaw76]

 

[hypochondriac]

23 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Soggy was pussy whipped? That explains a lot….

Hold on @Lord Duckhunteryour post seems to have disappeared as does the one from @Turkishand myself. Either a mod got drunk with power and removed them of their own accord or soggy went crying to the mods demanding their removal. Either is pathetic. 

[Turkish]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Hold on @Lord Duckhunteryour post seems to have disappeared as does the one from @Turkishand myself. Either a mod got drunk with power and removed them of their own accord or soggy went crying to the mods demanding their removal. Either is pathetic. 

They’ve been moved to the chorus of posts about each other thread 👍

[hypochondriac]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

They’ve been moved to the chorus of posts about each other thread 👍

Cheers never seen that before. Bizarre. I suppose we do want to keep this thread free for serious lgbtq+ discussion 

Edited 1 July, 2023 by hypochondriac

[Lord Duckhunter]

I see Lawrence Fox had some aggro from the old bill at a lgbtq2@?ed event. Surprised our resident “Prevent” coordinator hasn’t posted about it. Looks like 2 veteran gay campaigners stuck up for the right wing bigot when two woke cops tried to move him on. 

[AlexLaw76]

Is this normal?

 

[Turkish]

30 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this normal?

 

i dont know what is normal these days.

[badgerx16]

56 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this normal?

 

Yes, chemo therapy is quite normal for cancer treatment.

[AlexLaw76]

14 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Yes, chemo therapy is quite normal for cancer treatment.

It is a man BTW

[skintsaint]

1 hour ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Is this normal?

 

[badgerx16]

24 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

It is a man BTW

Want to inform the Daily Mail ?

"A trans woman activist who appeared on ITV News as a 'struggling mother' has shared a photo of her breastfeeding her child and said she only stopped doing so after she had a cancer relapse. "

Edited 3 July, 2023 by badgerx16

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Want to inform the Daily Mail ?

"A trans woman activist who appeared on ITV News as a 'struggling mother' has shared a photo of her breastfeeding her child and said she only stopped doing so after she had a cancer relapse. "

She?

Cased closed then

[skintsaint]

15 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

She?

Cased closed then

[AlexLaw76]

LOL

https://www.skynews.com.au/opinion/outsiders/uk-charity-group-suggests-bonus-hole-as-a-more-inclusive-term-for-vagina/video/87607136a9598ceb7fb8c9d4a866d497

[badgerx16]

Surprised this story has not been highlighted on here yet;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-66176790

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Surprised this story has not been highlighted on here yet;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-66176790

I always thought Dutch birds were quite fit, how can that munter win it even allowing for the fact it’s a bloke

[The Kraken]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I always thought Dutch birds were quite fit, how can that munter win it even allowing for the fact it’s a bloke

What are you on about , she’s a stunner.

Just wondering if after the photo she got it out and gave it a full willy windmill as a celebration.

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I always thought Dutch birds were quite fit, how can that munter win it even allowing for the fact it’s a bloke

Maybe the judges had had too much 'cake'.

[Turkish]

28 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

What are you on about , she’s a stunner.

Just wondering if after the photo she got it out and gave it a full willy windmill as a celebration.