Saints 1-1 Chelsea- Match Thread

[SaintZamboni]

5 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Tosh! Things weren't the same at all. We had a bucket full of injuries to our best players and we had to field half a team of inexperienced and largely ineffective B team players. Even now we are not fully up to strength  - Diallo, Walcott, Walker Peters. This led to a collapse of our automatism on which Ralph's tactics depend.

 

Right. I think we’re making the same point.
Somebody else was saying that doing the same thing and expecting the same results is the definition of madness. But I’m making the point that doing those things made us successful before so why change now.  Obviously injuries enforced changes and I would hope success would return because things were working before 

[the saint in winchester]

2 hours ago, SaintZamboni said:

Right. I think we’re making the same point.
Somebody else was saying that doing the same thing and expecting the same results is the definition of madness. But I’m making the point that doing those things made us successful before so why change now.  Obviously injuries enforced changes and I would hope success would return because things were working before 

Why change now? Because they are not working any longer. Our playbook is in the public domain. Other sides gen up and know about our passing along the back line, then the long diagonal to the far end of the pitch. They know they can stay compact, strength in numbers, and we can't break through the rear 7 players. They know as we like to pass out from the back, GK to defender, we are vulnerable to being pressed ourselves.

That's why we need to come up with NEW strategies and our old strategies are being combatted.

[Teddeer]

It is not impossible to have two or three systems drummed into the players and swap around during matches depending on how things are going.  Sticking rigidly to one system with no other options is poor as a long term strategy. Football these days is getting more advanced so coaches have to be smart and keep coming up with new ways of getting the most from their teams.

[Harry_SFC]

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/ralph-hasenhuttl-chelsea-southampton-system-5019773.amp?a=&__twitter_impression=true

Could well be 3 at the back..

[Sideways Jim]

------Mccarthy-------

--Bednarek- -Vestergaard-Salisu 

JWP  - - - - - -Romeu - - - - - -Bertrand

-----Armstrong - - - - - - Minamino 

-----Ings--------Adams

 

Go for the 3322 Formation mix it up a bit

 

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, Teddeer said:

It is not impossible to have two or three systems drummed into the players and swap around during matches depending on how things are going.  Sticking rigidly to one system with no other options is poor as a long term strategy. Football these days is getting more advanced so coaches have to be smart and keep coming up with new ways of getting the most from their teams.

Isn’t this what we do?

[Teddeer]

3 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Isn’t this what we do?

No.

[Jeremy]

I'm down to $5 the Saints win at the moment to reflect reality. As usual, I Iive in hope.  A loss (not a hiding) with some of the key guys having a good game (Ings for example) would at least be something positive for the future. If they lose, make sure it's after a decent fight. Come on you buggars.

[Chris cooper]

7 hours ago, Sideways Jim said:

------Mccarthy-------

--Bednarek- -Vestergaard-Salisu 

JWP  - - - - - -Romeu - - - - - -Bertrand

-----Armstrong - - - - - - Minamino 

-----Ings--------Adams

 

Go for the 3322 Formation mix it up a bit

 

Saints are exposed week in week out with just two DM in there if you move jwp out there Romeu will be unforgivably over run on his own ..need both of them in there ..I agree with 3 at the back tho  with two wing backs.. hopefully get Werner Alonso n co turned around running back toward their own goal .. but who do we drop in as wing back on the right side?Redmond? Armstrong? Think the latter is better roaming centrally in the 10 role tho .even on the left I think Bertrand as a wing back would be dead after 60mins ..listening to Ralph yesterday he will know how tuchel will play us .. but also the flip side of that coin is tuchel knows Ralph’s gave inside out and with two 9 nils and 6 defeats he will also know we lack the personnel to pull it off .

[Billy the Kidd]

13 hours ago, the saint in winchester said:

Why change now? Because they are not working any longer. Our playbook is in the public domain. Other sides gen up and know about our passing along the back line, then the long diagonal to the far end of the pitch. They know they can stay compact, strength in numbers, and we can't break through the rear 7 players. They know as we like to pass out from the back, GK to defender, we are vulnerable to being pressed ourselves.

That's why we need to come up with NEW strategies and our old strategies are being combatted.

Hmmm. Not sure I agree with the opening of your post.

They haven't worked in the main, due to a butt load of injuries and shit officiating. Sure we didnt beat Newcastle, but pretty much all other games during this run (Utd aside) the results have been heavily influenced by refs and VAR.

Our players are slowly coming back from injury, but it takes a few games for players to get back into it of they've been out a while.

When we were top of the league, how many supporters were saying these things?

I think we may wait a few more games without a win, but it will start to click again, and we may need to be patient.

I'm sure Ralph will be looking at tweaking how we play, for example if Stephen's plays RB we wont be as good attacking down the right, so he may play Redmond on that side for pace and directness,  or if Ramsey plays, he may move JWP over for more cover for him.

Maybe the tweaks are subtle, but people, not necessarily you, suggesting Ralph is clueless or not looking at adapting a little perhaps need to look harder than just results alone.

[AlexLaw76]

if we lose by less than 2, it will be a decent result.

if Fulham win (which is highly likely), time to start looking at the bottom 3 and have a little concern.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Hmmm. Not sure I agree with the opening of your post.

They haven't worked in the main, due to a butt load of injuries and shit officiating. Sure we didnt beat Newcastle, but pretty much all other games during this run (Utd aside) the results have been heavily influenced by refs and VAR.

Our players are slowly coming back from injury, but it takes a few games for players to get back into it of they've been out a while.

When we were top of the league, how many supporters were saying these things?

I think we may wait a few more games without a win, but it will start to click again, and we may need to be patient.

I'm sure Ralph will be looking at tweaking how we play, for example if Stephen's plays RB we wont be as good attacking down the right, so he may play Redmond on that side for pace and directness,  or if Ramsey plays, he may move JWP over for more cover for him.

Maybe the tweaks are subtle, but people, not necessarily you, suggesting Ralph is clueless or not looking at adapting a little perhaps need to look harder than just results alone.

I honestly believe our decline started before the injury crisis  and the bad officiating, but we still picked up results which masked the issues. I'd go back to Wolves away, they pounded us, but we came away with a draw (9-2 shots on target, 20 - 7 overall), Home to Man - threw away a 2-0 lead, Arsenal away drew 1-1 playing against 10 men for nearly 40 minutes, that's when I first really noticed us running out of ideas around the opposition area, Arsenal had chances to win after going down to 10 (remember they were on a long losing streak at the time). Brighton away, they were at least as good as us - more shots again but this time the officiating worked in our favour, , away to Fulham - completely blunt in attack 0-0, 10 - 3 goal attempts in favour of Fulham. Home to West Ham - full first team playing - completely blunt going forward again, West Ham could easily have won and so on. The teams we did beat in this period were at their lowest ebb, Newcastle and SUFC. Then there was the Liverpool at home freak, where officiating could have gone against us but didn't. I would venture that we got found out around the time of Wolves away in November.

[Chris cooper]

34 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I honestly believe our decline started before the injury crisis  and the bad officiating, but we still picked up results which masked the issues. I'd go back to Wolves away, they pounded us, but we came away with a draw (9-2 shots on target, 20 - 7 overall), Home to Man - threw away a 2-0 lead, Arsenal away drew 1-1 playing against 10 men for nearly 40 minutes, that's when I first really noticed us running out of ideas around the opposition area, Arsenal had chances to win after going down to 10 (remember they were on a long losing streak at the time). Brighton away, they were at least as good as us - more shots again but this time the officiating worked in our favour, , away to Fulham - completely blunt in attack 0-0, 10 - 3 goal attempts in favour of Fulham. Home to West Ham - full first team playing - completely blunt going forward again, West Ham could easily have won and so on. The teams we did beat in this period were at their lowest ebb, Newcastle and SUFC. Then there was the Liverpool at home freak, where officiating could have gone against us but didn't. I would venture that we got found out around the time of Wolves away in November.

High tempo press had gone from wolves away onwards definitely..burnt out from project restart and no rest at end of season .. without like for like cover was inevitable really ! Good post 👍🏻

[Billy the Kidd]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

I honestly believe our decline started before the injury crisis  and the bad officiating, but we still picked up results which masked the issues. I'd go back to Wolves away, they pounded us, but we came away with a draw (9-2 shots on target, 20 - 7 overall), Home to Man - threw away a 2-0 lead, Arsenal away drew 1-1 playing against 10 men for nearly 40 minutes, that's when I first really noticed us running out of ideas around the opposition area, Arsenal had chances to win after going down to 10 (remember they were on a long losing streak at the time). Brighton away, they were at least as good as us - more shots again but this time the officiating worked in our favour, , away to Fulham - completely blunt in attack 0-0, 10 - 3 goal attempts in favour of Fulham. Home to West Ham - full first team playing - completely blunt going forward again, West Ham could easily have won and so on. The teams we did beat in this period were at their lowest ebb, Newcastle and SUFC. Then there was the Liverpool at home freak, where officiating could have gone against us but didn't. I would venture that we got found out around the time of Wolves away in November.

Maybe yes, but let's face it, we aren't City and able to dominate every game.

The way I see it is when we click were a match for most sides in the league and better than most, but through injuries, fixtures every 3 or 4 days and our playing style burning us out, then the shitshow of Mike Dean and in his incompetent fuckwits, it has all gone against us.

Lately, other than Utd really we deserved far more from games, and Wolves being the latest where we only lost due to dickheads officiating. 

[saintquin]

Can't say I'm looking forward this game because of the last half a dozen results but, as said above we have deserved more than we've got in a few of them. 

As we all know though anything can happen and there have been a few weird results this season!

Edited 19 February, 2021 by saintquin
used wrong word.

[Toussaint]

42 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Maybe yes, but let's face it, we aren't City and able to dominate every game.

The way I see it is when we click were a match for most sides in the league and better than most, but through injuries, fixtures every 3 or 4 days and our playing style burning us out, then the shitshow of Mike Dean and in his incompetent fuckwits, it has all gone against us.

Lately, other than Utd really we deserved far more from games, and Wolves being the latest where we only lost due to dickheads officiating. 

Agree to differ, but with Wolves we didn't put them away when we dominated the game in the first half, we came out in the second half with no puff, the officials did not help, but I still think we were architects of our own downfall.

[Totton Saint]

11 hours ago, Teddeer said:

No.

Ralph has said some time back that he changes systems 2 or 3 times during a game. 

[Teddeer]

27 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Ralph has said some time back that he changes systems 2 or 3 times during a game. 

They must be well disguised changes then. Surely one smart change would involve a system to hold for a while and conserve energy so that we are not burnt out after 50-60 minutes. This would especially help in games where we take the lead and might help stop this constant losing from winning situations.

[Totton Saint]

I guess every time, when Ings ,for example, helps out in defence,  you could argue change in formation, albeit for a short time. Or when the 'big lads' from the back four come up for corners.

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Maybe yes, but let's face it, we aren't City and able to dominate every game.

The way I see it is when we click were a match for most sides in the league and better than most, but through injuries, fixtures every 3 or 4 days and our playing style burning us out, then the shitshow of Mike Dean and in his incompetent fuckwits, it has all gone against us.

Lately, other than Utd really we deserved far more from games, and Wolves being the latest where we only lost due to dickheads officiating. 

...and you really believe that do you? Which planet did you say you came from?

[Noodles34]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I honestly believe our decline started before the injury crisis  and the bad officiating, but we still picked up results which masked the issues. I'd go back to Wolves away, they pounded us, but we came away with a draw (9-2 shots on target, 20 - 7 overall), Home to Man - threw away a 2-0 lead, Arsenal away drew 1-1 playing against 10 men for nearly 40 minutes, that's when I first really noticed us running out of ideas around the opposition area, Arsenal had chances to win after going down to 10 (remember they were on a long losing streak at the time). Brighton away, they were at least as good as us - more shots again but this time the officiating worked in our favour, , away to Fulham - completely blunt in attack 0-0, 10 - 3 goal attempts in favour of Fulham. Home to West Ham - full first team playing - completely blunt going forward again, West Ham could easily have won and so on. The teams we did beat in this period were at their lowest ebb, Newcastle and SUFC. Then there was the Liverpool at home freak, where officiating could have gone against us but didn't. I would venture that we got found out around the time of Wolves away in November.

That’s the idea maybe, you play badly and still pick up results. That’s not the sign of a bad team, it’s the sign of a good or resilient team. 
Fulham away, we were blunt? Two goals disallowed and a free kick that hit the bar and the follow up cruelly spun away from a tap in. 
Apart from a last minute header, Arsenal didn’t offer any chances to win, neither did Wolves away. And Liverpool, a freak result. 
You might as well call every game on ifs and buts, then we could be bottom or top. 

[Whitey Grandad]

41 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

...and you really believe that do you? Which planet did you say you came from?

I think with the game against Wolves Billy the Kidd has a fair point. There were two very similar penalty incidents and the universla comments were that they should bothe be given as penalties or neither. If the ref had not given the one against Bertrand but had given the one against Dendonker then we would have won that game, oe at least not lost it.

[JRM]

4 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I honestly believe our decline started before the injury crisis  and the bad officiating, but we still picked up results which masked the issues. I'd go back to Wolves away, they pounded us, but we came away with a draw (9-2 shots on target, 20 - 7 overall), Home to Man - threw away a 2-0 lead, Arsenal away drew 1-1 playing against 10 men for nearly 40 minutes, that's when I first really noticed us running out of ideas around the opposition area, Arsenal had chances to win after going down to 10 (remember they were on a long losing streak at the time). Brighton away, they were at least as good as us - more shots again but this time the officiating worked in our favour, , away to Fulham - completely blunt in attack 0-0, 10 - 3 goal attempts in favour of Fulham. Home to West Ham - full first team playing - completely blunt going forward again, West Ham could easily have won and so on. The teams we did beat in this period were at their lowest ebb, Newcastle and SUFC. Then there was the Liverpool at home freak, where officiating could have gone against us but didn't. I would venture that we got found out around the time of Wolves away in November.

I agree but didn't that coincide with Ings being out after bad injury at Villa as well as Bertrand,  we lost momentum after that. 

[Teddeer]

Sounds like we have one doubtful starter tomorrow. Armstrong would be my guess and, if so, that is a big blow.

[Toussaint]

If I had anything else to do on a rainy lockdown Saturday, I wouldn't watch the game. Saints have ruined too many weekends lately and a couple of weekdays to boot. However as I have nothing else to do I will watch it, hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised. I  hope you all find this as riveting to read as I found it to write. Sigh.

[cloggy saint]

1) You probably won't be.

2) I didn't.

[Billy the Kidd]

3 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

...and you really believe that do you? Which planet did you say you came from?

Jeez, you have a way with words, dont you 😗. Did no one teach you that you catch more bees with honey, and not vinegar?

Genuine Q, with the officiating of late. do you actually watch the games subjectively or just come on here to moan about shit?

So, as Whitely has suggested - 2 incidents v Wolves, 2 incidents v Villa.  There are others, but im on a Teams call at work and cant be arsed.  

The main one we fucked up, was v Newcastle, and let's be fair - we just werent at it - and these things happen. Even Utd away, it would never have been 9-0 had Che's goal been correctly awarded instead of being offside.

Anyhow, im off to support the guys tomorrow - be great if you could join me 🖖

[Convict Colony]

Good to see we are a release for some fans at least, win or lose.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2010575?s=09

[stknowle]

10 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

if we lose by less than 2, it will be a decent result.

if Fulham win (which is highly likely), time to start looking at the bottom 3 and have a little concern.

That you, Batman?

[JRM]

Referee: Anthony Taylor. Assistants: Simon Long, Adam Nunn. Fourth official: Simon Hooper. VAR: Stuart Attwell. Assistant VAR: Gary Beswick

what's our history like with Anthony Taylor? 

[Mattio]

I can see us grabbing a draw here, we're bouncing back from our injury crisis and the 9-0 and have had a decent break of games for the first time in a while. KWP being out is a big downer but maybe Salisu can play there and excel? 

[Totton Saint]

I had a good feeling before the Liverpool game and I have the same feeling re, tomorrow's match. Can't explain why. Hope it is not misplaced.

[verlaine1979]

On 18/02/2021 at 09:42, the saint in winchester said:

Why change now? Because they are not working any longer. Our playbook is in the public domain. Other sides gen up and know about our passing along the back line, then the long diagonal to the far end of the pitch. They know they can stay compact, strength in numbers, and we can't break through the rear 7 players. They know as we like to pass out from the back, GK to defender, we are vulnerable to being pressed ourselves.

That's why we need to come up with NEW strategies and our old strategies are being combatted.

What if the playbook he came up with after the lockdown is the only one that'll work with our small, lopsided squad. It's not as if we have any strength or pace in the team, so energy and opportunism, coupled with a high-efficiency striker is really all we've got. We're not good enough technically to play like City (or even Leicester/Wolves) and we're not physical enough to play like Brighton or West Ham (or Burnley for that matter).

Plan B would require players who can make a difference playing in a different way. We don't have any.

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, stknowle said:

That you, Batman?

Something vaguely familiar about the positivity levels...

[JRM]

48 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

I had a good feeling before the Liverpool game and I have the same feeling re, tomorrow's match. Can't explain why. Hope it is not misplaced.

I know what you mean, I thought we played well first half v Wolves, need to recreate that, I'm pinning my hopes on Chelsea having one eye on Champion's league away game to Athletico Madrid on Tuesday. Tough game for them. 

Our record against Chelsea at St Mary's is dreadful though, they've got to have a better win record down here than anyone. 

[Totton Saint]

11 minutes ago, JRM said:

I know what you mean, I thought we played well first half v Wolves, need to recreate that, I'm pinning my hopes on Chelsea having one eye on Champion's league away game to Athletico Madrid on Tuesday. Tough game for them. 

Our record against Chelsea at St Mary's is dreadful though, they've got to have a better win record down here than anyone. 

Yes, some ofSaints football earlier in the season was as good as I have seen in a long time. I agree - we did play well first half v. Wolves.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Something vaguely familiar about the positivity levels...

trousers, can I suggest you concentrate more on the game than trying to expose the people who post on here? You have much to offer but waste your intellect trying to take the piss out of trolls

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

I had a good feeling before the Liverpool game and I have the same feeling re, tomorrow's match. Can't explain why. Hope it is not misplaced.

Is it the White Lightning? Is that the good feeling?

[JRM]

3 hours ago, Totton Saint said:

Yes, some ofSaints football earlier in the season was as good as I have seen in a long time. I agree - we did play well first half v. Wolves.

We've played Chelsea 13 times at St Mary's, won 1, drawn 2, lost 10 (including the last 5) , definitely a ground they like visiting. 

Chelsea to win Giroud to score anytime. 

[trousers]

3 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

trousers, can I suggest you concentrate more on the game than trying to expose the people who post on here? You have much to offer but waste your intellect trying to take the piss out of trolls

My intellect is overrated

P.s. Saints to win 2-1

Edited 20 February, 2021 by trousers

[Jeremy]

6 hours ago, Convict Colony said:

Good to see we are a release for some fans at least, win or lose.

https://www.premierleague.com/news/2010575?s=09

Way to go! I wouldn't do that though because I want to remain anonymous.

[Mr X]

https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/19105245.hasenhuttl-explains-parted-company-zsolt-low/#comments-anchor

 

Seems like we are putting a lot of excuses in beforehand, RH basically saying Chelsea manager & assistant. Know his game inside out, also lots of articles blaming our injury crisis (which I agree hasn't helped) 

 

[John B]

I fully expect another loss as we are not clinical enough in attack and make mistakes in defence

[egg]

Heart says score draw, head says there'll score and we won't. I've not captained Werner in my fantasy league team as I never back anyone against us, but I think he'll have a field day coming off the left. 

[Master Bates]

Who's the injured party then, Armstrong or McCarthy?

[hasper57saint]

Well here we are again. Yet another reality check, orchestrated through the predictions of certain ‘Knowledgeable (?) Pundits’. Ever the optimist I am not persuaded by the so-called inevitability of another loss. We are Saints. We don’t expect to win every game but the recent past has not dampened my spirit. This is my response.

I’ve followed Southampton for many long years,

Through the good and the bad times

With laughter and tears.

We play at St Mary’s the home of the Saints

if you think we’re defeatist

We effing well ain’t.

YOU CAN DO It LADS! COYS.

 

[Convict Colony]

17 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Who's the injured party then, Armstrong or McCarthy?

Maybe redmond ?

[Master Bates]

50 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

Maybe redmond ?

For Ralph to be coy I reckon McCarthy 

[Jeremy]

55 minutes ago, hasper57saint said:

Well here we are again. Yet another reality check, orchestrated through the predictions of certain ‘Knowledgeable (?) Pundits’. Ever the optimist I am not persuaded by the so-called inevitability of another loss. We are Saints. We don’t expect to win every game but the recent past has not dampened my spirit. This is my response.

I’ve followed Southampton for many long years,

Through the good and the bad times

With laughter and tears.

We play at St Mary’s the home of the Saints

if you think we’re defeatist

We effing well ain’t.

YOU CAN DO It LADS! COYS.

 

This. Put in a shift that doesn't resuit in a post mortem on here about how bad they were. I'd take decided improvement for a start at the moment.

Edited 20 February, 2021 by Jeremy

[Chapel End]

Which word sums up your thoughts leading up to today's game 

Hopeful

Anxious

Confident

Dread

Resigned

Meh