Saints 1-1 Chelsea- Match Thread

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Redmond got a very good assist and didn't give away the penalty that ultimately cost us the win. He therefore had a much more positive effect on the team today than his strike partner. 

How is it that people still don't understand that football isn't just about what you do with the ball, even more so at the top level. If Redmond wasn't carrying out Ralph's instructions he wouldn't be in the team. 

Because most of the cocks on here don’t know anything about footballl?

[The Cat]

Just now, Turkish said:

Because most of the cocks on here don’t know anything about footballl?

Get it in the mixer FFS.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Shroppie said:

A big positive for me was seeing Djenepo can be a wing back. 

Was he?  I thought he started there but it seemed Bednarek took over as right back and Djenepo went to right mid, he did seem to cover back a lot. Really impressed with him today, he’d clearly had enough of losing 

[Kingsland Codger]

5 hours ago, Chez said:

It was much more about their failure to execute than our good defending.

It was our good defending that caused their failure to execute. The wild miss by Reece James was due to Bertrand being between him and the goal and because he was under pressure to score as time was running out. Compare Minamino’s composed finish to James’s uncontrolled swing.

[The Cat]

That's the second time Chelsea have subbed a sub against us without an injury being the cause.

Mourinho did it when we beat them 3-1 away, think it was Matic on that day.

It very rarely happens so is quite bizarre that it's happened twice in matches between the same teams.

[Lighthouse]

2 minutes ago, The Cat said:

That's the second time Chelsea have subbed a sub against us without an injury being the cause.

Mourinho did it when we beat them 3-1 away, think it was Matic on that day.

It very rarely happens so is quite bizarre that it's happened twice in matches between the same teams.

Everyone remembers Dia but I’m pretty sure we’ve done it with Bleidelis and Folly too.

[Saint Pete]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

You talk reasonable sense but there is an element of happy clappy especially when you try and persuade us all that Redmond should not be a whipping boy. Sorry but his contribution is woeful woeful woeful. 

Was the assist for our goal "woeful woeful woeful" then? Sorry if it makes me happy clappy as well in your eyes but I can recognise that Redmond has been an important player for the club before (former player of the season) and that he was certainly one of our better players today against a good side.

He's always been a confidence player and has been out of form, but you can see signs in the last couple of games of his confidence returning (if you are prepared to set aside vendettas and actually watch the game). Ralph clearly thinks so as he's restored him to the first 11.

It's a shame that some are too blinkered in their views of Redmond to admit when he has contributed. You might say their contribution to this thread is "odd odd odd".

[Saint Pete]

4 hours ago, Teddeer said:

Kante should have seen red for that foul on Djenepo - very nasty.

Agreed. Has that been Djenepo clattering into Kante in that way, I think we all know what the result would have been following a VAR review.

[tpv01]

Redmond decent today. Starts next game same position on that performance. 

[John Boy Saint]

We must have gotten something right if Tucal is mithering about being ineffective in the final 20% of the pitch.

Salisu looked comfortable, as has been said already some of his piercing passes through the Chelsea midfield were sublime, Djenepo certainly earned his corn today, poor bloke must be black and blue after the beating up he repeatedly took.

Best part of the result breaking into the 30’s at long last.

[Singapore Saint]

1 hour ago, Saint Pete said:

Agreed. Had that been Djenepo clattering into Kante in that way, I think we all know what the result would have been following a VAR review.

VAR = Vote Against Ralph

[Singapore Saint]

Messi + Mane + Salah + Pahars = MINAMINO 💘 

Let's hope the bin dippers don't nick him from us.

Edited 21 February, 2021 by Singapore Saint

[Verbal]

5 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

You talk reasonable sense but there is an element of happy clappy especially when you try and persuade us all that Redmond should not be a whipping boy. Sorry but his contribution is woeful woeful woeful. 

Dear god, this is stupid.  A club historian defending the idea of 'whipping boy' is a new low. 

[rooney]

Moussa my MOM. Got hacked time and time again but still came back with excellent work rate for the team. Salisu impressive as was the build up for our goal and the skill showed by Minamino.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Can’t believe that one decent through pass trumps all the dross he has served up this season (and last). Sorry he’s a nice bloke and there once lurked a decent footballer in there somewhere but he isn’t brave with the ball, his decision making is poor and he lacks a footballing brain. Certainly not PL standard in my eyes. 

[Shroppie]

9 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Was he?  I thought he started there but it seemed Bednarek took over as right back and Djenepo went to right mid, he did seem to cover back a lot. Really impressed with him today, he’d clearly had enough of losing 

I agree that he didn't play as an out and out wingback but with the team we had yesterday it gave us the flexibility to change shape from 4222 to 343, 523or even 5221. He gave a lot of cover.

[The Cat]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Can’t believe that one decent through pass trumps all the dross he has served up this season (and last). Sorry he’s a nice bloke and there once lurked a decent footballer in there somewhere but he isn’t brave with the ball, his decision making is poor and he lacks a footballing brain. Certainly not PL standard in my eyes. 

But it wasn't just one decent through ball was it? If that was the case and he spent the rest of the game being "woeful, woeful, woeful" then Ralph would have taken him off and put Adams on.

What about his positioning? His pressing? Cutting off channels for their defenders? The runs he makes? The freeing up of space for others? His covering, his movement? All these are inherently important to how we should view someone's performance. From your posts it seems you have no idea about what Ralph requires from players.

Tuchel hooked Hudson Odoi yesterday because his work off the ball was below the standards he required. He did ok in possession, a couple of nice runs but in the managers opinion he wasn't committing to the team in the rest of his play.

I'm no massive Redmond fan boy but what I don't like is players getting unnecessary abuse. Don't forget he also put in the cross that Vestergaard hit the bar from. Remove preconceptions, take your blinkers off and watch the overall game.

[Jeremy]

8 hours ago, John Boy Saint said:

Best part of the result breaking into the 30’s at long last.

Agreed, Drawing with the 4th-placed team was a good result.

[CWD]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Can’t believe that one decent through pass trumps all the dross he has served up this season (and last). Sorry he’s a nice bloke and there once lurked a decent footballer in there somewhere but he isn’t brave with the ball, his decision making is poor and he lacks a footballing brain. Certainly not PL standard in my eyes. 

“Not PL standard” is one of the silliest insults thrown at our players. What does it even mean? If Redmond wasn’t PL standard then he wouldn’t have been playing consistently in the PL for the last 8 years. 
 

Redmond didn’t do much going forward yesterday, but neither did any of his team mates. The difference is, when the chance came to attack, he was clinical with his passing. Our two main chances involved a brilliantly weighted pass and a well dug out cross - both from Redmond. If that was Ings putting in that performance yesterday we would be singing his praises about how he makes the difference in key moments.

yes he can frustrate at times, but I wish people would give credit where it’s due sometimes. It just seems with Stephens out the team we have to have someone to bash. His work against the ball and overall play is obviously pleasing Ralph or else he wouldn’t be in the team.

[OldNick]

totally unfair and a bad judgement

Edited 21 February, 2021 by OldNick

[Noodles34]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

But it wasn't just one decent through ball was it? If that was the case and he spent the rest of the game being "woeful, woeful, woeful" then Ralph would have taken him off and put Adams on.

What about his positioning? His pressing? Cutting off channels for their defenders? The runs he makes? The freeing up of space for others? His covering, his movement? All these are inherently important to how we should view someone's performance. From your posts it seems you have no idea about what Ralph requires from players.

Tuchel hooked Hudson Odoi yesterday because his work off the ball was below the standards he required. He did ok in possession, a couple of nice runs but in the managers opinion he wasn't committing to the team in the rest of his play.

I'm no massive Redmond fan boy but what I don't like is players getting unnecessary abuse. Don't forget he also put in the cross that Vestergaard hit the bar from. Remove preconceptions, take your blinkers off and watch the overall game.

I do find it strange that a lot of people on here find that criticism equals abuse. Everyone has their opinion on Redmond and obviously all the other players and some opinions are stronger than others of course. But I find it funny that the words ‘abuse’ and ‘whipping boy’ are used a lot. I would class abuse as something more public and personal, in the fact of a direct Twitter message etc. And if someone fails to see Redmonds attributes then that doesn’t make him a whipping boy, it’s just someone else’s opinion. If you don’t like it, ignore or counter argue. Of course some will never be convinced of a particular players abilities and no matter what, will be over critical like yesterday. 
This is a forum of fickle football fans, doubt Redmond reads or even knows about it and if he did, would he care? So what’s the abuse? 

[Maya's Dad]

redmond had a good game yes. and his past few performances have been good as well. 

but that doesnt mean his criticism in the past is unfair. nobody has ever doubted what he brings to the team defensively, its his contribution in the final thirds that people have questioned. and in my opinion rightly so. brought in as a winger and a creative player, he has shown what he can achieve which has no doubt also upped many of our expectations of him. but his levels have dropped and his numbers show that. more than happy to be proved wrong if he goes on a run now

[egg]

31 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

I do find it strange that a lot of people on here find that criticism equals abuse. Everyone has their opinion on Redmond and obviously all the other players and some opinions are stronger than others of course. But I find it funny that the words ‘abuse’ and ‘whipping boy’ are used a lot. I would class abuse as something more public and personal, in the fact of a direct Twitter message etc. And if someone fails to see Redmonds attributes then that doesn’t make him a whipping boy, it’s just someone else’s opinion. If you don’t like it, ignore or counter argue. Of course some will never be convinced of a particular players abilities and no matter what, will be over critical like yesterday. 
This is a forum of fickle football fans, doubt Redmond reads or even knows about it and if he did, would he care? So what’s the abuse? 

I got into the Redmond thing yesterday as just after the goal someone posted that they were just about to post that Redmond was a "waste of the shirt" or similar. That's beyond an opinion of his performance, but, not even remotely reflective of his performance (and others) to that point. That poster, and many others, were singling out Redmond based on preconceptions not that game. Until that point, and after, Ings offered much less, ditto Minamino although his goal was great. Singling out Redmond could only have been for the hell of it, or from a lack of football knowledge which I have to say seems quite common amongst a lot of posters who fail to see why Ralph plays Redmond. 

[The Cat]

47 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

I do find it strange that a lot of people on here find that criticism equals abuse. Everyone has their opinion on Redmond and obviously all the other players and some opinions are stronger than others of course. But I find it funny that the words ‘abuse’ and ‘whipping boy’ are used a lot. I would class abuse as something more public and personal, in the fact of a direct Twitter message etc. And if someone fails to see Redmonds attributes then that doesn’t make him a whipping boy, it’s just someone else’s opinion. If you don’t like it, ignore or counter argue. Of course some will never be convinced of a particular players abilities and no matter what, will be over critical like yesterday. 
This is a forum of fickle football fans, doubt Redmond reads or even knows about it and if he did, would he care? So what’s the abuse? 

The abuse comes from the stands. If you're ever at a match he gets way more unnecessary comments from the crowd than other player. 

Maybe the forum and social media feed this? People read it, confirming the bias they already have and then turn up at a game and dish out crap to him.

I highly doubt he reads it either, he probably has much better things to be doing with his time and wealth than reading the comments on here, a least I'd hope this is the case!

[Sarnia Cherie]

12 hours ago, The Cat said:

That's the second time Chelsea have subbed a sub against us without an injury being the cause.

Mourinho did it when we beat them 3-1 away, think it was Matic on that day.

It very rarely happens so is quite bizarre that it's happened twice in matches between the same teams.

Tuchel didn't like Hudson-Odoi's body language and effort. Fair enough. Tuchel's his manager and needs to let him know the reason he was subbed but I personally don't like managers who announce opinions which should be discussed in private with the player, shouting about it to the media. Nobody responds very well to being bawled out in public. Mourinho did it with Luke Shaw and Paul Pogba and is now at it again with Delle Ali. I wonder if instead of motivating that player it has a negative effect and impacts on the relationship with his manager. 

[Roo1976]

1 hour ago, Noodles34 said:

I do find it strange that a lot of people on here find that criticism equals abuse. Everyone has their opinion on Redmond and obviously all the other players and some opinions are stronger than others of course. But I find it funny that the words ‘abuse’ and ‘whipping boy’ are used a lot. I would class abuse as something more public and personal, in the fact of a direct Twitter message etc. And if someone fails to see Redmonds attributes then that doesn’t make him a whipping boy, it’s just someone else’s opinion. If you don’t like it, ignore or counter argue. Of course some will never be convinced of a particular players abilities and no matter what, will be over critical like yesterday. 
This is a forum of fickle football fans, doubt Redmond reads or even knows about it and if he did, would he care? So what’s the abuse? 

Bit like V A R ...........someone else's view......how fulhams goalie stayed on after all thats been previous ,bit like Pickfords non sending off.

[The Cat]

20 minutes ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

Tuchel didn't like Hudson-Odoi's body language and effort. Fair enough. Tuchel's his manager and needs to let him know the reason he was subbed but I personally don't like managers who announce opinions which should be discussed in private with the player, shouting about it to the media. Nobody responds very well to being bawled out in public. Mourinho did it with Luke Shaw and Paul Pogba and is now at it again with Delle Ali. I wonder if instead of motivating that player it has a negative effect and impacts on the relationship with his manager. 

Definitely agree with that. 

Tuchel seems like an over excitable kid who just fell out the megastore wearing club issue full tracksuit and beanie hat. 

[Charlie Wayman]

This one will not live long in the memory that's for sure. Film editors will have struggled to make any highlights from that. A moment of magic and a moment of madness from the Saints pretty much sums it up. Like most I am grateful for a point from a match we looked odds on to lose.

There still needs to be more directness in our play as well as the familiar intricate inter-passing build-up that allows the opposition too much time to reorganise. Our goal came from a superb direct through ball from Redmond that split the Chelsea defence apart and left Minamino in the clear with time and space.

Feeling slightly more confident about Leeds this morning.

Edited 21 February, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[fanimal]

No one mentioned the irony that two good draws against a good Chelsea side would be better for us if we had won/lost one!

[Dark Munster]

3 hours ago, fanimal said:

No one mentioned the irony that two good draws against a good Chelsea side would be better for us if we had won/lost one!

Or worse for us if we'd drawn/lost or lost/lost them.

[eurosaint]

Having played a totally different system than previously, there was bound to be a downside as well as some positives (we got an important draw) !

Not using the 'high energy', 'high press', effectively offered posession to the opposition but was less tiring for us. Many have opined that Ings, Redmond & Minamino gave the ball away too often but considering that they were often alone and surrounded by 3 blue shirts instead of being backed by other red shirts it was perhaps unsurprising !

The bottom line is that Ralph utilised a 'plan B" which many had called for and it was (relatively) successful !

Be interesting to see if we go back to the normal formation tomorrow night !

[niceandfriendly]

Funny how a decent assist (and it was decent) and some flicks in unthreatening positions can overshadow weeks of poor performances, wasted opportunities, clumsy controls and continued loss of possession for some posters on here. Having the forum simpleton Turkish come to his defence is arguably Redmond's most damning assessment. 

Ralph seems intent on picking players out of form so hopefully he starts to play well soon. 

[Fan The Flames]

4 hours ago, niceandfriendly said:

Funny how a decent assist (and it was decent) and some flicks in unthreatening positions can overshadow weeks of poor performances, wasted opportunities, clumsy controls and continued loss of possession for some posters on here. Having the forum simpleton Turkish come to his defence is arguably Redmond's most damning assessment. 

Ralph seems intent on picking players out of form so hopefully he starts to play well soon. 

What a strange thing to write.