Anyone starting to look nervously at the table?

[Saint_Jonny]

49 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Sadly this is to the point as much as it hurts. The pointless support of our club is a bit futile really. Ive had enough of the decades of week ends being ruined, not wanting to even watch us as I get so wound up during and after. Football generally has lost its way and as many had suggested VAR has deadened the thrill of scoring as you have to wait for it to be assessed. There are just as many if not more contentious decisions now and as there is a human with their own prejudices making the final decision it is still a poor system. I was in charge of the VAR against Pompey or Liverpool etc you can still make the 50-50's go against a team etc etc 

This is largely how I feel about football. The glass ceiling is damn near impenetrable these days. Somehow Leicester have managed to punch through it once, and are now doing it again. I'm 32 and I do ask myself why I should bother with (hopefully) 45-50 years more trips to SMS to watch a team that has no hope of actually winning anything other than the odd scrap against the "big boys". 

These conversations ultimately always come up when we go on a piss poor run. And I always fall head over heals in love with it all again when we go on a good run. Fickle as fuck.

[Toussaint]

32 minutes ago, Saint_Jonny said:

This is largely how I feel about football. The glass ceiling is damn near impenetrable these days. Somehow Leicester have managed to punch through it once, and are now doing it again. I'm 32 and I do ask myself why I should bother with (hopefully) 45-50 years more trips to SMS to watch a team that has no hope of actually winning anything other than the odd scrap against the "big boys". 

These conversations ultimately always come up when we go on a piss poor run. And I always fall head over heals in love with it all again when we go on a good run. Fickle as fuck.

Leicester isn't a great comparaison, whilst town and support are similar sizes they are owned by the gazillionaires, King Power. We are owned by someone with, well,  no money at all.  I really don't see how this self financing model of ours works, or perhaps it doesn't, which is why we flattered to deceive and are now finding our level. 

 

[S-Clarke]

21 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Leicester isn't a great comparaison, whilst town and support are similar sizes they are owned by the gazillionaires, King Power. We are owned by someone with, well,  no money at all.  I really don't see how this self financing model of ours works, or perhaps it doesn't, which is why we flattered to deceive and are now finding our level. 

 

Yeah, they have great owners. Similar circumstances what with the death of their main owner though, although the son was always heavily involved in the first place. They're a similar size to us but have left us a long way behind.

I will go as far and say that Leicester's success has been mainly driven by their scouting. They don't throw money around. They do sell big....Chilwell, Maguire, Kante, Mahrez, Drinkwater... 

...but they've progressed on the back of those sales because their scouting has been top notch. They sold Chilwell and bought in Castange, they sold Kante and bought in NDidi, they sold Mahrez and brought in Maddison. They'd planned for Maguires exit a year before and bought in Evans and Soyuncu - so when Maguire was sold, they used that money to invest in the wider team (Tielemans, Praet, Justin etc).

The frustrating thing is that we should have been in a similar position as we also sold players for similar fee's, but our scouting lumbered us with Hoedt, Lemina, Elyonoussi and that useless crowd. It really is quite depressing to see how Leicester did it and how we've made such a mess of it.

And didn't Les even say that they copied us...? 

Edited 16 February, 2021 by S-Clarke

[Toussaint]

4 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Yeah, they have great owners. Similar circumstances what with the death of their main owner though, although the son was always heavily involved in the first place. They're a similar size to us but have left us a long way behind.

I will go as far and say that Leicester's success has been mainly driven by their scouting. They don't throw money around. They do sell big....Chilwell, Maguire, Kante, Mahrez, Drinkwater... 

...but they've progressed on the back of those sales because their scouting has been top notch. They sold Chilwell and bought in Castange, they sold Kante and bought in NDidi, they sold Mahrez and brought in Maddison. They'd planned for Maguires exit a year before and bought in Evans and Soyuncu - so when Maguire was sold, they used that money to invest in the wider team (Tielemans, Praet, Justin etc).

The frustrating thing is that we should have been in a similar position as we also sold players for similar fee's, but our scouting lumbered us with Hoedt, Lemina, Elyonoussi and that useless crowd. It really is quite depressing to see how Leicester did it and how we've made such a mess of it as they're a very similar club in size and stature.

And didn't Les even say that they copied us...? I assume he meant that 'one window' where we sold our team and replaced under Koeman. We had a decent scout though.

The difference is we tried to be too smart, whilst they sold and bought to sustain their success, we sold with and bought view to playing moneyball, but got it largely wrong.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

The difference is we tried to be too smart, whilst they sold and bought to sustain their success, we sold with and bought view to playing moneyball, but got it largely wrong.

Very true.  The fact they accept they're not on top of the food chain and will inevitably have to sell players means things work better for them and they buy players who they accept will be too good in a couple of years - we spent 3-4 years trying to buy players who wouldn't ever be good enough to leave.

[Winnersaint]

Just earwigged the couple of blokes doing some work on our bathroom reckon Fulham will stay up and we will go down!

[OldNick]

6 minutes ago, Winnersaint said:

Just earwigged the couple of blokes doing some work on our bathroom reckon Fulham will stay up and we will go down!

well if they are as good workmen as football judges I suggest you ought to tell them to go now, lol

[Turkish]

3 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

Yep, only sustainable if the fans do embrace it and embrace the 'pantomime' circus of it. People like me and you will never embrace it, so the question is, will there be enough others to? Obviously, if there is, they won't worry about me and you spending saturdays etc. playing golf but I think that long term, it might be the demise of football, certainly in its present form. But i might be being naïve on that.

The trouble is i fear there will be. For the big clubs there will always be someone wanting to take the seat of some local fan who doesn't want it any more. I remember reading about Liverpools champions league final last year where a thousands of local Liverpool fans couldn't get tickets yet a fan from China who'd never been to a game before got one and said it was the best day of his life, that's what you're up against. For clubs like Saints a lot of the people i used to go with dont bother any more, myself included. We've just been replaced and the next generation coming through now will grow up used to VAR and it'll be all part of the match day experience. Anyway, premier league clubs dont want people like us anymore, they want people who will sit and applaud politely decked out fully in club merchandise, buy a program, some food and drinks, take some photos and buy something in the club shop before rating their match day experience as 10/10. I'd rather watch my local league 2 team or play golf these days. 

[skintsaint]

45 minutes ago, Turkish said:

or play golf these days. 

Even that don't help...I'm just as shit at golf as watching Saints at the moment due to only starting a few months ago 😆

[Whitey Grandad]

48 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The trouble is i fear there will be. For the big clubs there will always be someone wanting to take the seat of some local fan who doesn't want it any more. I remember reading about Liverpools champions league final last year where a thousands of local Liverpool fans couldn't get tickets yet a fan from China who'd never been to a game before got one and said it was the best day of his life, that's what you're up against. For clubs like Saints a lot of the people i used to go with dont bother any more, myself included. We've just been replaced and the next generation coming through now will grow up used to VAR and it'll be all part of the match day experience. Anyway, premier league clubs dont want people like us anymore, they want people who will sit and applaud politely decked out fully in club merchandise, buy a program, some food and drinks, take some photos and buy something in the club shop before rating their match day experience as 10/10. I'd rather watch my local league 2 team or play golf these days. 

Unfortunately I'm not old enough to play golf

[VectisSaint]

3 minutes ago, skintsaint said:

Even that don't help...I'm just as shit at golf as watching Saints at the moment due to only starting a few months ago 😆

Given we can't play golf at the moment it doesn't help anyway, no matter how bad you are. 

[Toussaint]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Unfortunately I'm not old enough to play golf

Maybe try gaelic football, that will keep your fitness up?

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

Maybe try gaelic football, that will keep your fitness up?

In Chandler's Ford?

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

Just earwigged the couple of blokes doing some work on our bathroom reckon Fulham will stay up and we will go down!

Cottagers?

[cloggy saint]

Just now, Lord Duckhunter said:

Cottagers?

As in Fulham fans or George Michael?

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, cloggy saint said:

As in Fulham fans or George Michael?

The blokes talking pony about Cottagers , hanging about in Winners toilet. Dodgy if you ask me.... 

[Toussaint]

51 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Cottagers?

I got it

[Gingeletiss]

15 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Given we can't play golf at the moment it doesn't help anyway, no matter how bad you are. 

I can, three times a week without fail....sorry!! 

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Gingeletiss said:

I can, three times a week without fail....sorry!! 

It’s not compulsory though, is it?

[Sarnia Cherie]

I'm not as worried as I have been other seasons. Our saving grace was doing well and winning points earlier in the season which has given us a bit of a cushion. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

22 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

Just earwigged the couple of blokes doing some work on our bathroom reckon Fulham will stay up and we will go down!

I hope you flushed their heads down the loo!

[saint1977]

6 hours ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I hope you flushed their heads down the loo!

That’s what I feel like doing after wasting 45 minutes on Burnley v Fulham. I know SFC have been poor recently but 2 shots, not even on target, for Fulham. Maja looks handy if Fulham get him any service, otherwise very average. Burnley slightly better, shouldn’t be finishing above SFC first XI on ability but they have a bit more professionalism and bottle about them when things don’t go to plan. 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Fulham lead...slightly nervous.

[BotleySaint]

1 minute ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Fulham lead...slightly nervous.

Not for long. 1-1 

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Oh, never mind, equaliser.

[VectisSaint]

10 points now between us and Fulham. I always consider 10 points as a rule of thumb as the size of gap that can be closed. More than 10 points and its pretty safe.

(Hopefully MLG won't be along to try to discredit my rule of thumb)  

[SuperSAINT]

24 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

10 points now between us and Fulham. I always consider 10 points as a rule of thumb as the size of gap that can be closed. More than 10 points and its pretty safe.

(Hopefully MLG won't be along to try to discredit my rule of thumb)  

Considering who we play next & the fact Fulham play Sheff Utd & Palace...

(MLG notes — I know that doesn’t add up to 10pts).

[trousers]

1 hour ago, VectisSaint said:

 I always consider 10 points as a rule of thumb as the size of gap that can be closed.

Almost within touching distance of the champions then...?

 

[Dusic]

Seems like we will have midweek games confirmed shortly for City and Spurs away, brought forward from later in the season.

Less than ideal timing, we could use some weeks with just one game, and to get Diallo back at least.

[VectisSaint]

56 minutes ago, trousers said:

Almost within touching distance of the champions then...?

 

Almost, but not quite. Not long ago they kept telling us that we were closer to the top 4 than the bottom 3. Not any more, not even the top 6 now. I'm not saying we will go down, just that it is not beyond the realms of possibility as some would have you believe.

 

[jimmysaint7]

1 hour ago, SuperSAINT said:

Considering who we play next & the fact Fulham play Sheff Utd & Palace...

(MLG notes — I know that doesn’t add up to 10pts).

To be fair after that they do have city and Liverpool 

[GDog07]

36 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Almost, but not quite. Not long ago they kept telling us that we were closer to the top 4 than the bottom 3. Not any more, not even the top 6 now. I'm not saying we will go down, just that it is not beyond the realms of possibility as some would have you believe.

 

I think we’re definitely going to be safe, well, I thought that was a banker in December that we were, still, here we are..

We could easily finish this season 17th if we continue on a bad run, I would be gutted if that were the case after how good we were, I mean, top of the table ffs!

I can’t see us ever being dragged down into a battle to stay up, two or three more wins and we’ll be good. Sheff Utd and West Brom look too far adrift - I do fear that dreaded 18th, but I hope we’ll see a few more good performances before the end of the season to keep us safe.

[whelk]

Fulham 8/15 to go down. Saints 75/1. 
Should tell you all as bookies study this shit scientifically with algorithms for endless scenario of results.

 

Edited 18 February, 2021 by whelk

[SNSUN]

A tad, but only as far down as 17th and not at all seriously. Fulham have picked up results since their poor start to the season but I still can't see them overhauling us over the next 14 games. Even if we get a point a game average over the rest of the season (i.e. relegation form) we'd still end up on 44 points, which would easily be enough to stay up, probably in lower mid-table. Fulham would need 25 points in that same time we get 15 (and they have 14 games to do it in not 15), so I can't see them bettering us. Still, in true Dalek style:  As long as we stay up, that's all that matters first and foremost.

 

It's moot anyway. I know we were virtually back to full strength against Wolves and muffed it up, but we still lost KWP, and we have been so badly injury troubled lately that the drop off in results was always going to happen. I maintain that we have a very good first XI and can beat anyone on our day. KWP will be a miss as he gives us balance and attacking prowess on the right flank and we have nobody to naturally replace him, but even so we can easily pick up the points we need without him, Diallo, Walcott and anyone else that decides they're made of glass.

 

We scored a cracking goal last week and were much the better team in the first half. Keep playing like that and we will be dutifully rewarded by the end of the season. Europe is probably out now (bar a cup win) but I still think we can hit top 10 if we find our form.

[JRM]

9 hours ago, Dusic said:

Seems like we will have midweek games confirmed shortly for City and Spurs away, brought forward from later in the season.

Less than ideal timing, we could use some weeks with just one game, and to get Diallo back at least.

Yes that's frustrating, I was reading if Man City and Spurs make it to European semi finals they've hardly got any midweek slots available to rearrange games so doubt Saints will get much say in it, at least we'll get a blank weekend at end of April when we were due to play Man City. 

If we beat Bournemouth we'll need to rearrange Palace at home as well (semi final weekend) and the FA Cup final clashes with a league game this year. 

Perhaps we'll rest players for Man City away and just write it off. 

Any news on Diallo and KWP? 

[Sarnia Cherie]

13 hours ago, saint1977 said:

That’s what I feel like doing after wasting 45 minutes on Burnley v Fulham. I know SFC have been poor recently but 2 shots, not even on target, for Fulham. Maja looks handy if Fulham get him any service, otherwise very average. Burnley slightly better, shouldn’t be finishing above SFC first XI on ability but they have a bit more professionalism and bottle about them when things don’t go to plan. 

A draw between these 2 was the best result for Saints.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

Fulham 8/15 to go down. Saints 75/1. 
Should tell you all as bookies study this shit scientifically with algorithms for endless scenario of results.

 

Anyone who is saying they don't think we are safe yet is saying that they truly believe that Ralph Hasenhuttl cannot do any better than the Pellegrino/Mark Hughes season. They don't think he can scrape together 36 points.

If they do believe that, especially after two plus years in charge, then really they should be campaigning for his dismissal as his time here will ultimately be seen as a failure.

[Saint86]

12 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Anyone who is saying they don't think we are safe yet is saying that they truly believe that Ralph Hasenhuttl cannot do any better than the Pellegrino/Mark Hughes season. They don't think he can scrape together 36 points.

If they do believe that, especially after two plus years in charge, then really they should be campaigning for his dismissal as his time here will ultimately be seen as a failure.

It really is as simple as this. For any fans out there that don't think we can get 7 points from a possible 45, where are your "Hassenhuttle out" posts?

[trousers]

I'm going to stick my neck (and other appendages) out and say that we'll amass at least 50 points this season.

[CB Fry]

21 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm going to stick my neck (and other appendages) out and say that we'll amass at least 50 points this season.

I think you seemed to have missed the fact that FULHAM GOT ANOTHER POINT YESTERDAY FFS

But yes us getting to 50 is far more likely than us being relegated.

[macca155]

24 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm going to stick my neck (and other appendages) out and say that we'll amass at least 50 points this season.

21 points from 15 games, 12 really as 3 of those are against top 4. Can't see 7 wins but once the players get over this slump. There should be a few wins to enjoy.

[Saint Garrett]

Who knows what happens once we're factually safe, (if), sometimes teams are on the beach (2 seasons ago), and sometimes they're motivated to achieve more (last season).

But hopefully we can get a few wins soon, and then focus on moving up the table.

[Turkish]

what's the record for most consecutive top flight losses? I'm REALLY worried we will take that one too, i cant see us winning another game this season as everyone else is doing so well and we are the only team to drop in form. Then that form will carry on until next season. Has anyone gone 50 games without a win?

[eelpie]

At present,our injury hit squad looks too exhausted and depleted to resist the in-depth strengths of most Premiership teams of the likes of Fulham, Brighton, Newcastle,  a resurgent Sheffield U and Newcastle . How we could do with the likes of Hojberg, and defenders shipped out since only twelve months ago. 12 points to safety seem a mighty big hill to climb. We have the talent when players are fit. The squad is so thin that players are rushed back from the treatment too early. That is the problem. KWP's latest injury is a massive problem now. 

People are quick †o blame players, but give them a break. They need united support from us all †o help them rebuild their confidence after all that's gone wrong. 

[CB Fry]

7 minutes ago, eelpie said:

At present,our injury hit squad looks too exhausted and depleted to resist the in-depth strengths of most Premiership teams of the likes of Fulham, Brighton, Newcastle,  a resurgent Sheffield U and Newcastle . How we could do with the likes of Hojberg, and defenders shipped out since only twelve months ago. 12 points to safety seem a mighty big hill to climb. We have the talent when players are fit. The squad is so thin that players are rushed back from the treatment too early. That is the problem. KWP's latest injury is a massive problem now. 

People are quick †o blame players, but give them a break. They need united support from us all †o help them rebuild their confidence after all that's gone wrong. 

Absolute masterpiece.

[CB Fry]

19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

what's the record for most consecutive top flight losses? I'm REALLY worried we will take that one too, i cant see us winning another game this season as everyone else is doing so well and we are the only team to drop in form. Then that form will carry on until next season. Has anyone gone 50 games without a win?

To be honest my view is we should drop down to league one as quickly as possible, have a clear out, rebuild and start again. It's clearly the only way we're ever going to get back to European contention. Really, every single defeat will be seen as a blessing in the long run.

[Teddeer]

56 minutes ago, eelpie said:

At present,our injury hit squad looks too exhausted and depleted to resist the in-depth strengths of most Premiership teams of the likes of Fulham, Brighton, Newcastle,  a resurgent Sheffield U and Newcastle . How we could do with the likes of Hojberg, and defenders shipped out since only twelve months ago. 12 points to safety seem a mighty big hill to climb. We have the talent when players are fit. The squad is so thin that players are rushed back from the treatment too early. That is the problem. KWP's latest injury is a massive problem now. 

People are quick †o blame players, but give them a break. They need united support from us all †o help them rebuild their confidence after all that's gone wrong. 

Hojbjerg is pants. Wouldn't want him back on a free transfer.

[Turkish]

When will we hear from the board? A statement or press conference or something to tell us what is going on? Are they sitting on their hands as Rome burns? Radio silence as usual

[Chez]

On 16/02/2021 at 09:38, OldNick said:

and as many had suggested VAR has deadened the thrill of scoring as you have to wait for it to be assessed. 

I've wondered if this would be beginning of the end of football as a live spectator sport? The thrill of witnessing a goal is what going to games is all about. Without the thrill, what are you left with?

Its fine for TV viewers as you get to see the replays and dare I say it, you are less emotionally entwined in the action.

If I was an owner, I'd be slightly concerned that VAR may be damaging my product in the long term, assuming people stop going to games because of it. 

[Lighthouse]

4 minutes ago, Chez said:

I've wondered if this would be beginning of the end of football as a live spectator sport? The thrill of witnessing a goal is what going to games is all about. Without the thrill, what are you left with?

Its fine for TV viewers as you get to see the replays and dare I say it, you are less emotionally entwined in the action.

If I was an owner, I'd be slightly concerned that VAR may be damaging my product in the long term, assuming people stop going to games because of it. 

Being absolute garbage at home for four years never seemed to put fans off so I don’t see why VAR would.