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Saints 1-2 Wolves - Match Thread


Harry_SFC
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1 hour ago, jabei said:

I've read a few reports this morning and everyone seems to be talking about the Neto goal being world class. Barely a mention of the Ings goal. Am I alone in thinking that Vesty shouldn't be turned so easily and that McCarthy should've saved it?

On the GK debate, I'm a fan of McCarthy and was very critical of Fraser when it seemed the opponent just needed to get a shot on target to score a goal (my memory is good and it was that bad) but there's no way conceding 14 goals in 3 games, regardless of fault, puts you in a good mindset. Fraser should definitely play against Chelsea.

 

Vesty shouldn't have been turned as easily, but I have sympathy with McCarthy as it was a thunderbolt at almost point-blank range. Fraser probably would have stood a better chance at stopping it because that's his preferred type of save to make, but not many keepers would have IMO.

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2 hours ago, DT said:

I'd make Vestergard captain, drop Redmond for Tella and McCarthy for Forster. We need a bit of bite. When can Diallo return?

Vest hardly covered himself in glory, Redmond created more than anyone yesterday and Tella did one thing at Wolves and so you believe hes a shoe in. As for Forster he has become all of a sudden a fantastic keeper. People have short memories

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2 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Vest hardly covered himself in glory, Redmond created more than anyone yesterday and Tella did one thing at Wolves and so you believe hes a shoe in. As for Forster he has become all of a sudden a fantastic keeper. People have short memories

Vestergard looked assured, played some fantastic cross-field balls and actually appears to care. He also has the physical presence to do more to motivate. Redmond was wasteful and awful as always, and never hits the net. Tella looks keen and young, Ralph clearly likes him, and he is NotRedmond. McCarthy was woeful and tentative on his distribution, which fills me and the defence with fear. Also, he seemed to be confused when to take the knee. It is not when trying to block a little bit of the goal that Neto could see as he approached. But hey, it's all about opinions, right?

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3 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Vestergaard isn't captain material. Not even close.

Stephens has more captain attributes than any of our current CB's. Sadly he's not very good.

Enlarge on why you think V isn't 'even close'. I'm searching for those with more leadership qualities than JWP and couldn't really find any. Hence our position at the moment

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6 minutes ago, DT said:

Enlarge on why you think V isn't 'even close'. I'm searching for those with more leadership qualities than JWP and couldn't really find any. Hence our position at the moment

Not sure we have anyone who is true captain material. 

You want a player who sets an example, steps forward in tough times and you notice them. I'll use Gerrard as an example, he was a proper captain. Chips were down, he'd be the one standing up and driving that team forward. He got them out of the shit through pure leadership. Fonte had a similar effect on us as well, I remember a 4-1 win at home to Arsenal when we were on a slump - he stood up that day and dragged us through that with the opening goal.

Vestergaard is a good player, but I don't see that in him. I see another player with poor mentality who will more often than not shrink in size and panic when the going gets tough. Look at what happens to our defence when it's attacked by reasonable force by any team, they just crumble every time and start doing stupid things.

Edited by S-Clarke
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On MOTD Ian Wright was incensed on our behalf at how the ref had awarded a penalty against Bertrand when he has his elbows tucked right in to his side but gives nothing when the Wolves player has his arms stuck out like a scarecrow! Ian Wright mentioned the number of referee howlers we have been on the receiving end of recently and said to give the Saints a break. Amen to that!

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We have far bigger problems than who our captain is.

 

We've had different types of captains in the past 3-4 years, Bertrand, Hojbjerg and now JWP, all different personalities, still having similar issues, despite obvious improvements there's still a fragility.

Edited by Appy
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17 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Dunno if I have the energy for the Chelsea game. Another early kick off and you just get the feeling that even if we play well some colossal cunt with a whistle or an etch-a-sketch decides to award a goal/penalty against us or take one away. 

Why should we not have the energy. We do such a lot of sideways and back passing (because no one making forward runs?) whilst not expending a lot of effort. The players must dread playing wondering after all the training and preparation for the game, if it is all negated by some mad official sabotaging it all.

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8 minutes ago, DT said:

Vestergard looked assured, played some fantastic cross-field balls and actually appears to care. He also has the physical presence to do more to motivate. Redmond was wasteful and awful as always, and never hits the net. Tella looks keen and young, Ralph clearly likes him, and he is NotRedmond. McCarthy was woeful and tentative on his distribution, which fills me and the defence with fear. Also, he seemed to be confused when to take the knee. It is not when trying to block a little bit of the goal that Neto could see as he approached. But hey, it's all about opinions, right?

The easy get out with fans is always hat they dont care or dont want to play for the shirt. Im sure if we looked back less than a year there will be many posts saying Vest should never wear the shirt again. You can do the same for many of the current team. Even Danny was questioned for a period.

Ive have seen this so many times with players. Hence your he is NOTRedmond shows how narrow minded fans are. Redmond did plenty yesterday and created a few chances, one for Adams and 1 for Armstrong in the 2nd half that on a better day may have created a goal. You want him dropped for a lad who I have yet to see in his fleeting performances a great deal yet. That could change quickly with some good performances but at present he should only be brought on for sub appearances not the pressure of starting. 

If McCarthy worries you can you not recall the times Forster a man from the land of the giants who cannot come and claim high ball. The time when we were beating Utd and a 40 yard long ball to the edge of his 6 yard box and he stood transfixed and let Van Persie tap in or the woeful free kick he let in the League cup final!!! I really want him to get his form back but at the same time I dont want to trash McCarthy.

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24 minutes ago, OldNick said:

Vest hardly covered himself in glory, Redmond created more than anyone yesterday and Tella did one thing at Wolves and so you believe hes a shoe in. As for Forster he has become all of a sudden a fantastic keeper. People have short memories

Forster did very well at Celtic and has kept 4 clean sheets for us in 4 games.

Edited by Teddeer
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4 minutes ago, Totton Saint said:

Why should we not have the energy. We do such a lot of sideways and back passing (because no one making forward runs?) whilst not expending a lot of effort. The players must dread playing wondering after all the training and preparation for the game, if it is all negated by some mad official sabotaging it all.

I understanding your frustration of the sidewards passing etc but apparently this is what is required to get space and us to then make a pass when the gaps appear. I can imagine how poor the atmosphere will be when the fans are let in as they still do not understand how Ralph system works/doesnt work!!

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2 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Forster did very well at Celtic and has kept 4 clean sheets for us in 4 games.

He made a great save with his feet at Wolves  but I think he hardly been stretched in any of the other games you mention.

As for at Celtic I dont think we can use that as a good barometer. I dont think they have come to us and wanted to buy him

Edited by OldNick
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26 minutes ago, OldNick said:

He made a great save with his feet at Wolves  but I think he hardly been stretched in any of the other games you mention.

As for at Celtic I dont think we can use that as a good barometer. I dont think they have come to us and wanted to buy him

They really wanted him, but they couldn't afford him and ourselves and Fraser weren't prepared to budge financially, so Celtic couldn't touch the wages he wanted. That's why he didn't end up there.

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Fuck me, I wish I had a pound every time I read “ 4 clean sheets in 4 games “  from the Forsterites. The question is, would McCarthy have let any goals in had he been in the nets against the mighty Shrews, Arsenal reserves an off form Liverpool and Wolves reserves. The answer is almost certainly, no. My mum may have only let a couple in, such was the lack of attacking threat in those games. These weren’t vintage goal keeping performances in the face of an onslaught. Any keeper in the top 3 flights would be capable of doing similar, yet Forster is suddenly our saviour. As far as I’m concerned never seeing the big lump in nets again will be too soon. He’s pony. 

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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1 hour ago, Totton Saint said:

Why should we not have the energy. We do such a lot of sideways and back passing (because no one making forward runs?) whilst not expending a lot of effort. 

we use a hell of a lot of energy chasing after the ball when we lose it. A lot of energy is spent by midfielders working hard to fill gaps and in the first half of games we often look pretty tight at the back because of that.  In the second half, gaps open as those midfielders get a bit more tired and can't race across to fill gaps when opponents wor the space. That's when our defenders face more one on ones, without any cover, and that's perhaps why we concede more in the second half (not sure how true that is) - individuals, like Vestegaard, get done by quality attackers. It would be good to be able to sub central midfielders a bit more often.

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Im not sure if anyone else noticed it or its already been mentioned but there was something that happened on about the 8th minute that kind of sums up our attacking mentality. As you all know, when we have the ball in the opposition half, the ball tends to get recycled sideways again and again  which invariably means whoever is playing upfront tends to have their back to the opposition goal, therefore making it harder for us to really turn and catch them. In roughly about the minute I mentioned the ball was knocked square to Minamino who with barely a glance up played a killer pass in between the two cbs. Ings shouldce been onto it and in their box in a flash but clearly wasnt expecting or used to quick pass like that. Hopefully they can get used to each other over time and work on some sort of understanding but what frustrated me was that it is exactly the type of cute, speedy pass weve been missing and Ings missed it. He didnt even acknowledge Minamino for the pass.

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21 hours ago, Nordic Saint said:

There is a reason why he has kept nearly 200 clean sheets and it's not just because he has got a world class defence playing in front of him. The thing about Forster is that he is so big and his positioning is so good that he doesn't usually need to move very far to stop goals. But, take your pick from this lot. The one from Mane is a real worldy:

(31) Fraser Forster 2016/17 Amazing saves - FC southampton - YouTube

 

 

 

the save from Mane is top draw. I don't recall ever seeing that. Fair play, but most of the others are just good saves and ones you'd expect him or anyone else to save.  

I recall discussing Forster's ability at length on several previous threads.  I have said in the past that he gets himself into good positions. He is a big old lad and that makes him hard to beat if strikers just hit is hard. He's an imposing figure and at times he is a bit of ball magnet. On the flip side though, for low shots in the corner he just doesn't get down quickly enough. For a big guy his command of the box is woeful. He has never come off his line to claim catches - and that worked well with VVD and Fonte (and Morgan and Wanyama and Ricky etc.) as everyone knew where they stood and won everything. Less so when we didnt have that strength on the air. Maybe with vestagaard and Bednerak it can work again.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Appy said:

We have far bigger problems than who our captain is.

 

We've had different types of captains in the past 3-4 years, Bertrand, Hojbjerg and now JWP, all different personalities, still having similar issues, despite obvious improvements there's still a fragility.

 They dont seem to have leadership abilities to get annoyed at sloppy play and look irritated enough to give out verbal stick. Just a look sometimes goes along way, i know im married.

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I just think the way to start a journey back to form is to build from the back with clean sheets and that Forster behind Bednarek and Vestergaard or even Salisu and Vestergaard is the way to do that. Get a boring backs to the wall 0-0 against Chelsea as the first step. Then it builds from there. Become hard to beat. I know this is easier said than done, of course, but feel that McCarthy's frailty at the moment (and it is a loss of form) is too much for the team in a key position. We also badly need Diallo's strength back, and Adams defending from the front to be back to what it was (fleetingly). Redmond has no place in this for me as he loses the ball way too easily and too often. And his final ball is, for a pro, pretty abysmal.

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22 hours ago, trousers said:

I'm a woman, but thanks for the well informed feedback (as per usual)

Crikey that is a surprise. I never picked that, but you are very argumentative and have to have the last word lol .

Edited by OldNick
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