Newcastle 3-2 Saints - Match Thread

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

4 hours ago, trousers said:

Anyone want to place a bet that your post rate will go right back down again when we rediscover our form...?

Why don't you just answer the question and we'll see if you're right. When do you think Saints will rediscover their form and pick up their next points?

Edited 6 February, 2021 by Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd

[CB Fry]

11 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Why don't you just answer the question and we'll see if you're right. When do you think Saints will rediscover their form and pick up their next points?

We'll get 40 points no problem so shut up you dopey tart.

[Lighthouse]

12 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Why don't you just answer the question and we'll see if you're right. When do you think Saints will rediscover their form and pick up their next points?

Well if we knew that, we’d all be making billions from the bookmakers.

[MatthewStiles]

6 hours ago, OttawaSaint said:

Nathan Redmond is total shit really. He hasn’t been good for years.

Player of the season 2018-19 both in fans and players vote.  Very good season in 2019-20 as well. 

 

[Toadhall Saint]

We lost @ Newcastle- quite normal as far as I can see.

[trousers]

32 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Why don't you just answer the question and we'll see if you're right. When do you think Saints will rediscover their form and pick up their next points?

Sometime between now and the end of the season. Just like we do after every dip in form we have. Anyway, enjoy the more frequent posting rate now that we're in a dip.

[Saint Troy]

I mentioned this in the match thread at the time but seeing it on motd I’m still convinced ings is onside for the disallowed goal. Rules silly of course but we saw it with the mings chest down too. If the player deliberately plays the ball (and not a goal line type save which I don’t think it is) then ings is back onside. Am I losing my tiny mind??

[davefizzy14]

3 minutes ago, Saint Troy said:

I mentioned this in the match thread at the time but seeing it on motd I’m still convinced ings is onside for the disallowed goal. Rules silly of course but we saw it with the mings chest down too. If the player deliberately plays the ball (and not a goal line type save which I don’t think it is) then ings is back onside. Am I losing my tiny mind??

I thought that it had touched the Newcastle defender before it reached Danny.

[OttawaSaint]

49 minutes ago, MatthewStiles said:

Player of the season 2018-19 both in fans and players vote.  Very good season in 2019-20 as well. 

 

Oh wow. 18-19. That’s a bit like getting employee of the month at MacDonalds.

[Turkish]

33 minutes ago, trousers said:

Sometime between now and the end of the season. Just like we do after every dip in form we have. Anyway, enjoy the more frequent posting rate now that we're in a dip.

Haven’t we previously many many times, started well, been shit from December onwards, sometimes finishing in jan, other times running through to March, then picked up again from March onwards. I reckon by 1/4 some do the mugs on here we be on about champions league football again and how we simply can’t afford to lose Ings/Bertrand etc.

[sydney_saint]

27 minutes ago, MatthewStiles said:

Player of the season 2018-19 both in fans and players vote.  Very good season in 2019-20 as well. 

 

That's pretty revisionist. He wasn't 'very good' last season. He picked up a whopping 4 goals and 4 assists from 32 matches- nearly all of them he played a full 90 as well. And whilst he did get player of the season previously, it was in a season we were particularly dreadful and looks more like a purple patch when you look at seasons previous and since. He has now made 151 premier league appearances for us with a return is 19 goals and 12 assists. Now compared to some other players during that time who have played in a similar position or up top:

Redmond- 11,515 EPL minutes for us- 19 goals, 12 assists

Armstrong-4,627 EPL minutes for us-11 goals, 7 assists

Shane Long- 9,339 EPL minutes for us - 27 goals, 20 assists

Tadic- 9, 617 EPL minutes- 21 goals, 30 assists

Djenepo - 1, 735' EPL minutes-3 goals, 2 assists

Che Adams - 2, 827' - EPL minutes - 8 goals, 7 assists.

Boufal - 3, 072'  EPL minutes - 3 goals 2 assists

As you can see, he is closer to the Boufal end of the spectrum than the Tadic end. I know football is more than goals and assists, but after 151 appearances he should be way higher. Has he really earned the right to keep playing to turn it around? Others have. Bertrand has earned the right to turn his form around. Ings has. Bednarek has. Redmond has been given more than enough time in his Saints career given he has played more over the last five years than any other of our attacking players. 

 

[trousers]

16 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Haven’t we previously many many times, started well, been shit from December onwards, sometimes finishing in jan, other times running through to March, then picked up again from March onwards. I reckon by 1/4 some do the mugs on here we be on about champions league football again and how we simply can’t afford to lose Ings/Bertrand etc.

That's pretty much how the script typically goes 👍🙂

[woodsaint1]

5 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Oh wow. 18-19. That’s a bit like getting employee of the month at MacDonalds.

Is that the Scottish version? In all seriousness though, Redmond has had his moments for us in previous seasons, but has been very poor for  the past year. He should be a squad player for us, nothing more. Problem is we've got injuries to Armstrong and Walcott. Djenepo was probably viewed as the long term replacement but has been pretty dire so hasnt staked his claim. Hopefully with Stu back soon and Minimino's arrival we'll see less of Redmond. He is incredlibly frustrating, because we know what he can do but its not very often that he actually produces it

[Singapore Saint]

9-0 again!

Newcastle down to 9 men and we score 0 goals 😡

Edited 6 February, 2021 by Singapore Saint

[Hawkswood]

Look, we're Southampton. Ive been supporting us for 35 years and seen us go through loads of abysmal runs so Im really not concerned at the moment. Frustrated,  yes, but not concerned. The only only thing that gets me worried is the effect this is having on Ralph. The lack of backing etc. Without him we're buggered. Imagine if Spurs dump Jose and are looking for a new manager !!!! F*ck me, the thought of that !!

[Lighthouse]

12 minutes ago, Hawkswood said:

Look, we're Southampton. Ive been supporting us for 35 years and seen us go through loads of abysmal runs so Im really not concerned at the moment. Frustrated,  yes, but not concerned. The only only thing that gets me worried is the effect this is having on Ralph. The lack of backing etc. Without him we're buggered. Imagine if Spurs dump Jose and are looking for a new manager !!!! F*ck me, the thought of that !!

I'm really not sure the rest of the football world views a man who has been at Southampton for two years, and has them firmly in the bottom half after two 9-0 defeats, as an upgrade on Mourinho.

[tajjuk]

I swear we get no luck when we go to Newcastle, they seem to score from every shot, do very little in the game and their goal lives a charmed life. How does that shot from Ings bounce back out at that angle like that? and straight into their keeper as well. I swear they are basically surviving relegation on pure luck. 

Got to say again a McCarthy pass give the opposition a goal as well, plus he's clearly off form on shot stopping, plenty of recent goals he should have been doing better imo. Weirdly it might be time for Forster, just to give McCarthy a break and some time out of the firing line.  He's face 27 shots on target in the last 4 games and 16 of those have been goals, that's a near 60% conversion rate. 

The worry is the confidence again, it's going to be shot, own goals going in, opposition scoring from every shot, decisions going against them, chances being missed, its all going to pile on.  The 9-0 was a freak result, but they easily played well enough and created enough to win this game and the Villa game, but didn't, that is the worry. 

I'm hoping Vestergaards return hopefully brings some calm to Bednerak, as he seems all over the place. 

[Chickendippers]

53 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

I swear we get no luck when we go to Newcastle, they seem to score from every shot, do very little in the game and their goal lives a charmed life. How does that shot from Ings bounce back out at that angle like that? and straight into their keeper as well. I swear they are basically surviving relegation on pure luck. 

Got to say again a McCarthy pass give the opposition a goal as well, plus he's clearly off form on shot stopping, plenty of recent goals he should have been doing better imo. Weirdly it might be time for Forster, just to give McCarthy a break and some time out of the firing line.  He's face 27 shots on target in the last 4 games and 16 of those have been goals, that's a near 60% conversion rate. 

The worry is the confidence again, it's going to be shot, own goals going in, opposition scoring from every shot, decisions going against them, chances being missed, its all going to pile on.  The 9-0 was a freak result, but they easily played well enough and created enough to win this game and the Villa game, but didn't, that is the worry. 

I'm hoping Vestergaards return hopefully brings some calm to Bednerak, as he seems all over the place. 

Saved me the effort of typing that out myself. I'll go back to watching the cricket!

[Hawkswood]

7 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

I'm really not sure the rest of the football world views a man who has been at Southampton for two years, and has them firmly in the bottom half after two 9-0 defeats, as an upgrade on Mourinho.

Fair enough,  i see your point. Its just that I hate spurs more than anyone else ( nearly anyone else) and the thought of losing another manager to them turns me a bit ill. 

[Toussaint]

9 hours ago, Toadhall Saint said:

We lost @ Newcastle- quite normal as far as I can see.

Not really though, a Newcastle out of form, key players injured , playing against ten for most of a half then 9 for 25 minutes.

[Shroppie]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

I swear we get no luck when we go to Newcastle, they seem to score from every shot, do very little in the game and their goal lives a charmed life. How does that shot from Ings bounce back out at that angle like that? and straight into their keeper as well. I swear they are basically surviving relegation on pure luck. 

I agree, and would add that Bednarek's OG was unlucky. He had his feet in place to block but the ball somehow popped up and squeezed past the unsighted McCarthy at the near post. I'd say that McCarthy had it covered anyway. It almost looked as if he called and Bednarek was trying to get out of the way.

Nothing unlucky about the other two goals, though. As I posted earlier, our lack of late penetration wasn't the main reason we lost. If we had defended properly we wouldn't have let in three goals and wouldn't have been chasing the game with an exhausted team on a quagmire in driving freezing sleet.

The success of our attacking game relies on risk-taking and the confidence that if we lose the ball, we'll get it back and defend if we have to. Conditions didn't help, but we didn't do that, and that's why Ralph looked so unhappy.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, tajjuk said:

I swear we get no luck when we go to Newcastle

They had a an injury crisis, we played against nine men for half the second half, and against ten for the other half of it. The goals we conceded, especially their third, were entirely due to our own mistakes.

Absolutely insane that anyone can take away from that match that we were the hard-done-by victims yesterday.

[tajjuk]

5 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

I agree, and would add that Bednarek's OG was unlucky. He had his feet in place to block but the ball somehow popped up and squeezed past the unsighted McCarthy at the near post. I'd say that McCarthy had it covered anyway. It almost looked as if he called and Bednarek was trying to get out of the way.

Nothing unlucky about the other two goals, though. As I posted earlier, our lack of late penetration wasn't the main reason we lost. If we had defended properly we wouldn't have let in three goals and wouldn't have been chasing the game with an exhausted team on a quagmire in driving freezing sleet.

The success of our attacking game relies on risk-taking and the confidence that if we lose the ball, we'll get it back and defend if we have to. Conditions didn't help, but we didn't do that, and that's why Ralph looked so unhappy.

They were poor defending, obviously McCarthy's poor pass basically created his chance but then I think he got beaten too easily by the shot seeing as it was on his side, and then Bednerak got done too easily by Saint-Maximin. I more meant all teams miss chances, even the best strikers but Newcastle seem to get very lucky with this, they barely create anything in games but manage to score from pretty much every half chance. They had 6 shots that whole game and 4 on target, they get 3 goals from it. I am sure last time we went up there they basically scored from 2 from like 3-4 shots. 

Plus you know Bednerak gets unlucky and the deflection has to go straight in to the goal beating the keeper, but Ings hits the post unluckily and then the rebound goes straight to their keeper as well, just highlights the poor luck.

We need someone to help us have a plan B a bit, someone with a bit of guile and passing to unlock those deep defences that is where we struggle and having a target man option would be good I reckon, back in the Koeman days having Pelle to back into people, wining fouls, flick ons, knock downs just gave us something extra. 

[tajjuk]

2 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

They had a an injury crisis, we played against nine men for half the second half, and against ten for the other half of it. The goals we conceded, especially their third, were entirely due to our own mistakes.

Absolutely insane that anyone can take away from that match that we were the hard-done-by victims yesterday.

Because we were unlucky, we defended poorly yes, doesn't mean the rub of the green didn't go our way, the two are not mutually exclusive. 

[Whitey Grandad]

We lost because we let in three goals. For the first two there was a gaping hole where the right back should be.

[CB Fry]

1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

Because we were unlucky, we defended poorly yes, doesn't mean the rub of the green didn't go our way, the two are not mutually exclusive. 

Sorry, nonsense. We were playing 10 and then 9 men of an injury ravaged side. We should being doing slightly better than whining about the fact that we managed to hit the post once and oh its so unfortunate why didn't that one shot go in.

Only on this forum can a team go down to nine men with defenders crocked and the other team is portrayed as the hard done by party. 

As I said, insane.

[The Curse of St Mary's]

7 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Because we were unlucky, we defended poorly yes, doesn't mean the rub of the green didn't go our way, the two are not mutually exclusive. 

5 shots on target against a team down to 10 then 9 players for 46 mins is just as big of an issue as our pathetic defending

[tajjuk]

7 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

insane.

Yes you are. 

[whelk]

Out xG was 1,43 so we over performed by scoring two goals. Inspired by Ralph. Onwards an upwards and we are lucky to have the best manager in the world right now.

[East Kent Saint]

11 hours ago, InvictaSaint said:

Where are you based EKS? Wondering if my Tesco and your Tesco are one and the same.....

Cheriton Tescos 5 miles from home !

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 minutes ago, whelk said:

Out xG was 1,43 so we over performed by scoring two goals. Inspired by Ralph. Onwards an upwards and we are lucky to have the best manager in the world right now.

Ralph the best manager in the world right now? No other manager has two 9-0s on his CV that’s for sure. 

[whelk]

Are there any stats on goals conceded by giving away possession? If collated i would guarantee we’d be top.

Redmond just outside the area, pass back pass back, pass sideways, pass back, pass forward, whoops..... goal. But just look at our possession and pass completion rate. We just aren’t getting the rub.

[CB Fry]

5 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Yes you are. 

Five shorts on target for an entire half versus 10 then 9 men and all you can do is blubber about how unlucky we were.

Absolutely pathetic.

[whelk]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Ralph the best manager in the world right now? No other manager has two 9-0s on his CV that’s for sure. 

Yeah but that is on the players and nothing to do with the brilliant passionate inspiring manager. Imagine if we had a dinosaur like Bruce woudl have been 24 nil.

[The Cat]

16 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

We lost because we let in three goals. For the first two there was a gaping hole where the right back should be.

I'm not sure if Walker Peters would have been there anyway. Our full backs average position is high up the pitch, Newcastle regularly played the ball over the top into those areas to exploit this. The fault in my eyes lays with Bednarek for half arsed attempt to win the ball.

He was also culpable for the second goal because his feet were in a mess, body weight all wrong. They teach that stuff at Academy age groups. It's the equivalent of a goalkeeper getting his set position wrong and letting one in because of it. Add to the fact he was lucky not to be sent off he had an all round stinker of a game. 

I'm not blaming him for the loss, all the players have that on them, but his mistakes certainly had a big contribution.

[CB Fry]

3 minutes ago, whelk said:

Yeah but that is on the players and nothing to do with the brilliant passionate inspiring manager. Imagine if we had a dinosaur like Bruce woudl have been 24 nil.

Yeah but Steve Bruce got all the luck yesterday apparently, what with going down to nine men for half an entire half.

The gods were definitely smiling on flukey old "rub-of-the-green" Steve Bruce. The cards just fell perfectly for him the jammy bastard. He'll never get that winning of combination of luck like that again, thats for sure.

[Sarnia Cherie]

15 hours ago, Archers Road Stand said:

Two embarrassing results in a week. 

Ralph really isn't as great as he's made out on here, bang average. 

How the fuck did Redmond play that entire game? He's absolutely gash. Championship standard at best. 

McCarthy can do one for his error on the 3rd goal. 

Ings doesn't look interested. Hard to see how we'll turn this around. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Ings has changed. I wonder if he is eyeing the exit? I think he might be hoping for a move and one last chance at a bigger club than Saints. In the meantime, Southampton pay his wages so he should put all his efforts into playing well for this team, which we know he can do. He hasn't been sparkling recently.

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Yeah but Steve Bruce got all the luck yesterday apparently, what with going down to nine men for half an entire half.

The gods were definitely smiling on flukey old "rub-of-the-green" Steve Bruce. The cards just fell perfectly for him the jammy bastard. He'll never get that winning of combination of luck like that again, thats for sure.

Reminds me so much of Leeds away in the Championship. 

[Sarnia Cherie]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

Yeah but Steve Bruce got all the luck yesterday apparently, what with going down to nine men for half an entire half.

The gods were definitely smiling on flukey old "rub-of-the-green" Steve Bruce. The cards just fell perfectly for him the jammy bastard. He'll never get that winning of combination of luck like that again, thats for sure.

I must have watched a different game because Saints didn't take advantage of playing against 10 then 9 men and didn't do enough to win. Our fault.

[Teddeer]

We have to stop this negative passing with just the aim of retaining the ball at all cost. The continual recycling and going back to our own goal is killing our instinctive creativity.  We seem very happy to work the ball up into the opposition third and then, if a simple pass isn't on or someone might have to take on a defender we immediately turn back and look for a 'safe' pass back towards our own goal thus surrendering the gain into opposition territory.  I'm not convinced we do well when we have lots of the ball because it usually means we have spent large spells just playing keep ball without actually hurting our opponents. Let's start being braver and taking more risks. It will not always come off but right now we are in danger of becoming boring to watch like a Puel team.

[hasper57saint]

We lost the game because on the day (yet again) we just didn’t defend. We gifted them three goals. Ralph must be tearing his hair out. 
Finger pointed firmly at the Board failing to recognise our defence is currently a charity.

[gordonToo]

14 minutes ago, The Cat said:

The fault in my eyes lays with Bednarek for half arsed attempt to win the ball.

What no one has mentioned is the unimpeded run goal scorer Willock had from midfield.

 

Edited 7 February, 2021 by gordonToo

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, gordonToo said:

What no one has mentioned is the unimpeded run goal scorer Willock had from midfield.

 

That’s becoming a feature. Barkley’s goal for Villa came from a similar run.

[Teddeer]

Maybe Ralph needs to tear up his bible of the way we play and rewrite large chunks of it - maybe include a chapter on how to defend by marking opponents in our box and picking up runners from midfield.

[gordonToo]

To continue a theme, Shelvey's chance early in the second half came when Redmond failed to keep up with him.

[InvictaSaint]

56 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

Cheriton Tescos 5 miles from home !

Ahhh, not mine then! I’m further north. But as an old Harveian I know the area well! Morehall rec was a favourite football location. 

[The Cat]

27 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

We have to stop this negative passing with just the aim of retaining the ball at all cost. The continual recycling and going back to our own goal is killing our instinctive creativity.  We seem very happy to work the ball up into the opposition third and then, if a simple pass isn't on or someone might have to take on a defender we immediately turn back and look for a 'safe' pass back towards our own goal thus surrendering the gain into opposition territory.  I'm not convinced we do well when we have lots of the ball because it usually means we have spent large spells just playing keep ball without actually hurting our opponents. Let's start being braver and taking more risks. It will not always come off but right now we are in danger of becoming boring to watch like a Puel team.

We have quite a game plan in possession which involves moving the ball around defence and the base of midfield while the front 4 make runs to try and pull their players out of position. As soon as that happens a quick ball is played through the midfield to hit the runners whose space is created by the full backs pushed high and the number 10's dropping inside.

Vestergaard being out has had significant impact on this because a lot of our attacking play starts from his pass which is triggered by the movement further forwards. I don't believe any of our other CB's are capable (maybe Salisu will be) of playing these sort of balls. 

If the opposition are disciplined and don't get dragged around then we recycle the ball until this happens. This then makes it look like we are passing it around the back for no reason.

Earlier in the season it was working perfectly, but opposition teams have started to work out how to counter it, especially while we've been struggling with injuries.

Other teams play a very similar style, difference obviously is the better ones have a load of world class players who can adapt and do something with individual brilliance that unlocks a defence. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with our tactics, and when we are on it we are exciting to watch. At this point they are let down by a small squad with many players carrying injuries and too many individual errors. However I'm sure this will be overcome in time and we'll get back to winning games soon.

[Jeremy]

44 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Maybe Ralph needs to tear up his bible of the way we play and rewrite large chunks of it - maybe include a chapter on how to defend by marking opponents in our box and picking up runners from midfield.

Don't professional football players playing in the EPL know how to do that without being told? 

[Saint_Jonny]

Having had time to sleep on it.. we scored two excellent goals and were unfortunate not to get a third. We did however look totally out of ideas when trying to break down their two banks of four when they went down to 9 men. 

I'm not going to talk about the defending.. just hope it improves, and fast. 

[Noodles34]

1 hour ago, Sarnia Cherie said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Ings has changed. I wonder if he is eyeing the exit? I think he might be hoping for a move and one last chance at a bigger club than Saints. In the meantime, Southampton pay his wages so he should put all his efforts into playing well for this team, which we know he can do. He hasn't been sparkling recently.

Seriously, if you think Ings isn’t trying because he wants a move, you’re fucking deluded and it does not make sense. 
which scenario do you think he prefers,

a - Team playing brilliantly and he’s scoring every other game, increasing his worth which means a better deal for him 

or 

b - Team playing shit, he’s playing shit and not trying as he knows he’s off but list of teams wanting him and willing to pay top wages dwindles  His value drops and so  club are more reluctant to sell