Theo, worth a permanent deal?

[Mr X]

He's shown glimpses that he still has skills in him & he has the saints ethos, but for me he's not worth a permanent especially on the rumoured 100k, he's had several games as a passenger, runs into trouble and looses posession and his final ball/strike is often awful, he was a great servant in his first stint here but i think we can do better for cheaper. Thoughts? 

[Give it to Ron]

No need younger and cheaper if we want to move on up the league.

[Cartman]

I'd hope we would get someone better. He won't cost anywhere close to 100k though, he is out of contract in the summer. What he earns now is irrelevant.

[Wade Garrett]

He hasn’t convinced me yet.

[davefizzy14]

Yes for me

[Disco Stu]

I don't think so. He's been a great loan signing but he's only marginally better than Redmond (arguably worse finishing) and we can definitely get better for cheaper (in regards to wages). The only reason he might stay is because Ralph thinks he's a positive influence on the squad.

[Give it to Ron]

3 minutes ago, Cartman said:

I'd hope we would get someone better. He won't cost anywhere close to 100k though, he is out of contract in the summer. What he earns now is irrelevant.

But his wages would  still be better used on left and right back cover or someone like Nelson at Arsenal 

[SNSUN]

No thanks. He's ok as a cheap stop gap but we are only paying half his wages and will be 32 in the summer. We need a younger, first choice AM to partner Armstrong if we want to progress as I don't think Redmond is good enough and Djenepo is injury prone.

[nta786]

2 year contract on 30k a week for me max- he won't accept that and we shouldn't offer much more. However, the club might see it fit to sign him on for 2 years at 50k: £50k x 52 wks x 2 yrs = £5.2m

Now how much would it cost to buy a Theo replacement? 

I wonder if the club regret Shane his extension especially at 50k a week - sometimes we should forget the sentiment though and start to be harsher especially when we can't afford to waste money

 

 

 

[danjosaint]

Nope 

[Cartman]

4 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

But his wages would  still be better used on left and right back cover or someone like Nelson at Arsenal 

If we were to sign him it would be because we need another body and can't afford anyone else. Like I said, I hope we can afford to get someone better and younger. Theo would be the cheap option, the 100k he earns now is irrelevant. Players don't like pay cuts, but as things stand, his salary next season is 0, so any contract he signs is a profit for him. 

[Saint_clark]

20 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't think so. He's been a great loan signing but he's only marginally better than Redmond (arguably worse finishing) and we can definitely get better for cheaper (in regards to wages). The only reason he might stay is because Ralph thinks he's a positive influence on the squad.

Walcott with 4 goal involvements to Redmond's 1. 

[Paulwantsapint81]

Theo on a sensible deal is worth it

 

 

 

[S-Clarke]

His off the ball running and movement is great, we don't have anyone as good as that who can play from the wide areas.

Unfortunately when he gets the ball his touch is often poor, his cross is cleared or his shoot is scuffed. But...he does open space up and can make things happen.

Jury is still out for me. He'd cost a lot in wages and I'm not sure he'd be worth that outlay based on what we've seen so far.

[egg]

Yep, but only til next summer on sensible wages. If he wants longer and/or high wages, then no. 

[Hatch]

No. 
 

for someone who has played so many games at the very top level his final decision making is atrocious 

[aintforever]

Definite yes for me.

[Give it to Ron]

Defensively as cover for full back he is great, he gets it but up front has been poor last 3-4 games

[aintforever]

30 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

we can definitely get better for cheaper (in regards to wages). 

Who?

[Toadhall Saint]

Less than 50k pw for a year 18 months max maybe anything more then no. 

[Give it to Ron]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Who?

Reiss Nelson?

[Colwinston Saints]

Yes. 1,000,000% 

 

anyone who says no is an idiot. Work rate is phenomenal and I’d imagine he is great around the place.  

[S-Clarke]

5 minutes ago, Colwinston Saints said:

Yes. 1,000,000% 

 

anyone who says no is an idiot. Work rate is phenomenal and I’d imagine he is great around the place.  

Sounds like Shane Long.

[Colwinston Saints]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Sounds like Shane Long.

Except he actually adds to the side. Been decent and Ralph trusts him. 

[Toussaint]

23 minutes ago, Colwinston Saints said:

Yes. 1,000,000% 

 

anyone who says no is an idiot. Work rate is phenomenal and I’d imagine he is great around the place.  

Thanks for your input Theo, but it’s a no from me.

[Colwinston Saints]

33 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Thanks for your input Theo, but it’s a no from me.

I worry about our fan base. People say Valery is decent and Theo isn’t. Most football fans should remain that.  

[Saint Garrett]

Yea, on a free and reasonable wages, 2 year deal. Can’t have a squad of all 18-24 year old, need a couple of older heads in there. 

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

Yea, on a free and reasonable wages, 2 year deal. Can’t have a squad of all 18-24 year old, need a couple of older heads in there. 

I still can't quite compute that he's an older head! It's still a bit WTF to me, I still remember his goal against Luton like it was yesterday.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Colwinston Saints said:

I worry about our fan base. People say Valery is decent and Theo isn’t. Most football fans should remain that.  

I get your sentiment, but I'm not sure many people are saying that Valery is decent. Perhaps Valery. And his agent. 

[Lighthouse]

No. Age and wages are definitely against him and I’m not sure he really offers that much in return. If he was going to be our best player then sure but really he’s just another option and money is tight.

[skintsaint]

Nope.... 'He runs around a lot busting a gut' isn't enough for me. I'd probably do the same playing for Saints.

 

[niceandfriendly]

9 hours ago, Hatch said:

No. 
 

for someone who has played so many games at the very top level his final decision making is atrocious 

Putting my personal relationship with Theo to one side, I totally agree with you on his decision making and it's something he is aware of too. Having said that if he can sign on massively reduced wages then a free transfer would be worth it. 

[benjii]

If Ings leaves then it’s probably worth keeping him because we’ll be in the market for a striker and that will be the priority. We couldn’t afford to sign a dud striker and a dud Theo replacement.  He’s a decent guy and will help bring the youngsters along. Yes, that sounds a bit like Shane Long but his contribution on the pitch is much better than Longy’s.

His shooting and passing is often terrible but his movement is excellent and he does help to stretch the opponent. I doubt we expected him to play so much but the injuries to Ings, Moussa and Redmond have forced us to pick him constantly.

However, if Ings stays then I would say it’s probably a waste of money giving Theo a longer deal. 

[Stevie61163]

It’s a yes from me

dunno what’s up with you lot saying no

where else are we going to get a player of his quality and his absolute love for OUR club

Theo is and always will be one of us .....never celebrated when he scored against us, always come to applaud us fans

did you see the way he celebrated his goal against the Arse

yes he has his shortcomings but wtf guys!,

[Singapore Saint]

11 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

He hasn’t convinced me yet.

He's convinced me he ain't the one.

[Singapore Saint]

35 minutes ago, Stevie61163 said:

It’s a yes from me

dunno what’s up with you lot saying no

where else are we going to get a player of his quality and his absolute love for OUR club

Theo is and always will be one of us .....never celebrated when he scored against us, always come to applaud us fans

did you see the way he celebrated his goal against the Arse

yes he has his shortcomings but wtf guys!,

So on that basis Gareth Bale should stay with Spurs, no matter how little Mourinho plays him. Better still, Bale should return to the mighty Saints, his spiritual home.

[Saint_clark]

Free transfer, two year deal, no more than £50,000 a week. 

[gordonToo]

Nope. No end product.

[St Louis]

Definite Yes from me at the minute.
Brings experience and a great attitude, which cant be underestimated in a young squad like ours.
He is so direct and takes us forward every time he gets the ball (we've played it sideways for far too long), I know we haven't scored many goals of late, but I definitely think he brings us more of an attacking threat and we create more chances when he plays.
We threw him in and played him a lot, and he'd not had regular game time for a while, so not surprised he looked a little jaded in the last few games (especially with our high energy press), but I think he's coped pretty well.
I guess a lot will hinge on this injury he has, and if he's out for a few months then that wont help his cause. I'm not convinced we would take him and Minamino in the summer, so a lot will depend on how that one plays out too.

[igsey]

Not for me, unless he's willing to take a very large (75%+) pay cut.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

No from me. He has lots of admirable qualities but his expense and his age push me into the negative camp.

[st alex]

Demari Gray was the obvious alternative that we'd been linked with but he's gone to Leverkusen. Lookman could be an option if Fulham don't sign him from RB Salzburg but not sure how similar a type of player he is.

I wonder if it's a concern of clubs that more of the better English players seem to be moving to European leagues, especially now that there's more restrictions on us being able to sign European players. We've had a recent history of signing young relatively unproven French players (Schneiderlin, Folly, etc). Will we still be able to sign non international players like Diallo? Or is it all based on salary thresholds?

Edited 2 February, 2021 by st alex

[tajjuk]

Probably a no from me, he's been poor up front and has only really performed in that wide role from the left, but is pretty much as inconsistent as everyone else we try there.

We need someone better, that position needs an upgrade as IMO it's been one of the weakest this year. Both strikers have performed well (but we need competition), Romeu, JWP and Diallo have all been good in the middle, Armstrong has been good (but again needs competition), Vestergaard has stepped up at the back and Bednerak has been consistently solid, Stephens is a decent enough back up and we have the unknown quantity of Salisu. Both full backs have been good (but again we need depth).

But that wide left position no one has nailed a place or performed consistently there, so to me it seems the most obvious first team slot we should be looking at. 

Maybe Minamino is the answer and we might sign him permanently (lets be honest he's not getting in that pool front 3/4 unless they sell 2 of them and he might push to leave for football much like Ings did). 

Personally I'd not sign him (Walcott) because of age and wages and because he's not really an upgrade on Redmond, he's done better than Redmond this season but not that much better, I'd even say sell Redmond, keep Djenepo to see if he can find some consistency and actually stay fit for a run of games, and try and upgrade that position. 

As someone mentioned above, Lookman has impressed for Fulham and impressed under Ralph before so he could be an option (especially as Fulham are likely to go down)

[Piran]

A decent debate above. My own view is "keep him", I think he brings a lot of positivity to our play. One puzzle, though, from many of the comments, is the wages assumptions. Surely it doesn't matter what his present salary is? His contract with Everton expires this summer, and at that point he would be free to negotiate a new one with potential suitors. If that is Saints, the club would be making a judgement on his value. They don't have to pay what he or his agents 'demand', he doesn't have to accept what any club offer. I suspect whoever from the club does the negotiating, has some idea of what they are doing.

[Monk]

Not for me. 

[le_tiss]

20 hours ago, Hatch said:

No. 
 

for someone who has played so many games at the very top level his final decision making is atrocious 

always said 'when its instinctive, he makes the right choice, when he has to think about it, he makes the wrong choice'

I would keep him - he has looked happy and has played fine IMO - obviously depends on the wages, I would assume he will be looking for £50-75k the same as our top players

2 year contract with a 3rd year option

He knows the club and the area - is happy here - which surprising enough actually means something (i.e. they are not FIFA sprits) - If we have little money - who else are we going to pursue and then get to settle into team, area etc.

 

Edited 2 February, 2021 by le_tiss

[tajjuk]

£50 -70k a year is at least one possibly two up and coming prospects from Europe or maybe the Championship, we know finances are tight, I think every ounce of our wage budget has to go to direct improvements on the squad, is he that? I don't think so and he is only likely to get worse. 

That sort of wage is something you could be offering someone like Lookman who probably is at least at Theo's level if not better as he has impressed in with Fulham this year and we know he has excelled under Ralph, and could potentially become much better. 

Would people want to sign him if we then couldn't free up the wages for someone like that? Or another Ings type signing where it's a loan to buy and would need similar wages? for a fairly inconsistent, pacey,  31 year old who works hard and is a nice guy around the place but who's final product is quite meh and haven't we just shipped out a hard working, pacey, nice guy around the club,  who is probably on £50-60k a week and very clearly shouldn't have been given a new two year contract. I feel with Theo we'll be in a similar situation in 2022 looking for someone to take some of his final wages for a year probably in the championship

[le_tiss]

1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

£50 -70k a year is at least one possibly two up and coming prospects from Europe or maybe the Championship, we know finances are tight, I think every ounce of our wage budget has to go to direct improvements on the squad, is he that? I don't think so and he is only likely to get worse. 

That sort of wage is something you could be offering someone like Lookman who probably is at least at Theo's level if not better as he has impressed in with Fulham this year and we know he has excelled under Ralph, and could potentially become much better. 

Would people want to sign him if we then couldn't free up the wages for someone like that? Or another Ings type signing where it's a loan to buy and would need similar wages? for a fairly inconsistent, pacey,  31 year old who works hard and is a nice guy around the place but who's final product is quite meh and haven't we just shipped out a hard working, pacey, nice guy around the club,  who is probably on £50-60k a week and very clearly shouldn't have been given a new two year contract. I feel with Theo we'll be in a similar situation in 2022 looking for someone to take some of his final wages for a year probably in the championship

totally understand where you are coming from and I for one was surprised that we weren't in for Lookman both times (but who knows we may have been and maybe he doesn't want to play for Ralph again? or he got paid miles more at Fulham? (he is on £55k pw i think - seems affordable for us) - maybe we wanted clauses in the contract if we went down to reduced wages whereas Fulham were happy to pay top wages to him even if they went down?) 

[washsaint]

No - we gave Long a 2 year contract extension and look how that turned out.  Theo provided a brief spark but has really fizzled out and his decision making is atrocious.  If it was a 1 year deal and greatly reduced wages maybe, but he really doesn't seem to offer us much other than running around a lot - there's lots of similarities with Long, namely great guy, runs around a lot and couldn;t hit a barn door when shooting.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If he fits into our wage structure & the length of contact suits us, it’s a defo yes from me. He’s done well since the move and is clearly good enough for our squad.