Time to Bin VAR

[Lord Duckhunter]

I was watching BT and the token bird they had on was arguing with the ex pros that the West Ham goal was a foul and VAR rightly disallowed it. So it’s not just referees that are idiots, some people who make their living being pundits are also clueless. Perhaps BT should suspend her for a game or two. 

[BERMUDASAINT]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

I suspect that PGMOL have been deliberately undermining VAR because they don't want their on-field decisions to be questioned.

This is a key point. Remember refs had complete control over the game before VAR was forced upon them after decades of complaining that the refs were getting it wrong too often. But lets not forget that  the boisterous crowd for more fair refereeing was us smaller clubs, the one getting shite calls week after week. 

VAR finally gets introduced....and it works!! For a while...Remember those early days, VAR  was making the right calls, and small clubs started to benefit...big 6 teams started to fall down the league. An erroision of VAR abilities began....strange hand ball changes, less reviews, VAR interferences when none was needed, no interference when it was needed. To today's event of a very simple useful tool. Speaking of tools, the refs..... are not fools, garbage,  inept etc. They are very clever Profesional that have many years experience at the highest level. The VAR get the most senior,  experienced refs....hmmmmmm, experienced in what?? Cmon, you know, changing the game to suit the top clubs when needed, yes I said it again!! It is sooooo obvious. As a supporter of one of "smaller" clubs I have seen this all my life, the only time I felt vindicated that the refs would not unduly affect the game was the early days of VAR. Now the refs have neutered VAR, they can continue to control the game and in turn control the LEAGUE. That brings me to the big elephant 🐘  in the room...THE PL

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

The Premier League is to review the operation of VAR with referees' organisation PGMOL as a matter of priority

A little slap on yhe hand then a kiss on the cheek 😘. 

The captains of the richest league in the world! Yet you want me to believe they let inept refs run around for decades? You want me to believe that putting those same refs in VAR would have a different outcome? You want me to believe they cannot handle VAR like the other countries or tournaments can?  You want me to believe there is no big team bias fron the refs?

The PL are the captains of this raft, skip, scooner, yatch, ship and now MEGGA SHIP. A $$ BILLION $$ enterprise. They have a valuable product  that they protect at a cost, and we are the fodder for the big boys that built this brand. We disappear and we almost did ( TKU ML) and no one would miss us, MU have a bad year, years like they have and their brand gets hurt! It is about fans, viewership and we don't move the needle, so we don't get the call from the well trained professional refs that ensure the PL brand stays strong....MONEY is in charge again....sad but true.

 

[BERMUDASAINT]

3 minutes ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

This is a key point. Remember refs had complete control over the game before VAR was forced upon them after decades of complaining that the refs were getting it wrong too often. But lets not forget that  the boisterous crowd for more fair refereeing was us smaller clubs, the one getting shite calls week after week. 

VAR finally gets introduced....and it works!! For a while...Remember those early days, VAR  was making the right calls, and small clubs started to benefit...big 6 teams started to fall down the league. An erroision of VAR abilities began....strange hand ball changes, less reviews, VAR interferences when none was needed, no interference when it was needed. To today's event of a very simple useful tool. Speaking of tools, the refs..... are not fools, garbage,  inept etc. They are very clever Profesional that have many years experience at the highest level. The VAR get the most senior,  experienced refs....hmmmmmm, experienced in what?? Cmon, you know, changing the game to suit the top clubs when needed, yes I said it again!! It is sooooo obvious. As a supporter of one of "smaller" clubs I have seen this all my life, the only time I felt vindicated that the refs would not unduly affect the game was the early days of VAR. Now the refs have neutered VAR, they can continue to control the game and in turn control the LEAGUE. That brings me to the big elephant 🐘  in the room...THE PL

A little slap on yhe hand then a kiss on the cheek 😘. 

The captains of the richest league in the world! Yet you want me to believe they let inept refs run around for decades? You want me to believe that putting those same refs in VAR would have a different outcome? You want me to believe they cannot handle VAR like the other countries or tournaments can?  You want me to believe there is no big team bias fron the refs?

The PL are the captains of this raft, skip, scooner, yatch, ship and now MEGGA SHIP. A $$ BILLION $$ enterprise. They have a valuable product  that they protect at a cost, and we are the fodder for the big boys that built this brand. We disappear and we almost did ( TKU ML) and no one would miss us, MU have a bad year, years like they have and their brand gets hurt! It is about fans, viewership and we don't move the needle, so we don't get the call from the well trained professional refs that ensure the PL brand stays strong....MONEY is in charge again....sad but true.

 

Oh shite I have some PL lawyers and retired PGML refs stalking my place 👀

[Saint_clark]

They're about to fucking disallow this arsenal goal for a foul in the build up. Anyone remember Broja V Spurs last season? 

 

Fuck off.

[AlexLaw76]

Is that a real and obvious error? I think not

[Saint_clark]

Fuck off with that, that's really pissed me off.

[Dr Who?]

That is so soft. The referees have lost it. That was a great goal. 

[Dr Who?]

So corrupt. 

[Dr Who?]

18 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I was watching BT and the token bird they had on was arguing with the ex pros that the West Ham goal was a foul and VAR rightly disallowed it. So it’s not just referees that are idiots, some people who make their living being pundits are also clueless. Perhaps BT should suspend her for a game or two. 

Ex players are the fucking worst. They do not seem to know the rules half the time. I do think pundits are there to try and get a debate going to be fair. 

[Dman]

16 minutes ago, BERMUDASAINT said:

This is a key point. Remember refs had complete control over the game before VAR was forced upon them after decades of complaining that the refs were getting it wrong too often. But lets not forget that  the boisterous crowd for more fair refereeing was us smaller clubs, the one getting shite calls week after week. 

VAR finally gets introduced....and it works!! For a while...Remember those early days, VAR  was making the right calls, and small clubs started to benefit...big 6 teams started to fall down the league. An erroision of VAR abilities began....strange hand ball changes, less reviews, VAR interferences when none was needed, no interference when it was needed. To today's event of a very simple useful tool. Speaking of tools, the refs..... are not fools, garbage,  inept etc. They are very clever Profesional that have many years experience at the highest level. The VAR get the most senior,  experienced refs....hmmmmmm, experienced in what?? Cmon, you know, changing the game to suit the top clubs when needed, yes I said it again!! It is sooooo obvious. As a supporter of one of "smaller" clubs I have seen this all my life, the only time I felt vindicated that the refs would not unduly affect the game was the early days of VAR. Now the refs have neutered VAR, they can continue to control the game and in turn control the LEAGUE. That brings me to the big elephant 🐘  in the room...THE PL

A little slap on yhe hand then a kiss on the cheek 😘. 

The captains of the richest league in the world! Yet you want me to believe they let inept refs run around for decades? You want me to believe that putting those same refs in VAR would have a different outcome? You want me to believe they cannot handle VAR like the other countries or tournaments can?  You want me to believe there is no big team bias fron the refs?

The PL are the captains of this raft, skip, scooner, yatch, ship and now MEGGA SHIP. A $$ BILLION $$ enterprise. They have a valuable product  that they protect at a cost, and we are the fodder for the big boys that built this brand. We disappear and we almost did ( TKU ML) and no one would miss us, MU have a bad year, years like they have and their brand gets hurt! It is about fans, viewership and we don't move the needle, so we don't get the call from the well trained professional refs that ensure the PL brand stays strong....MONEY is in charge again....sad but true.

 

I’ve seen some crap on here, but this is probably the worst. 
 

It’s like reading a MLT twitter post. Paranoid nonsense 

Edited 4 September, 2022 by Dman

[whelk]

22 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I was watching BT and the token bird they had on was arguing with the ex pros that the West Ham goal was a foul and VAR rightly disallowed it. So it’s not just referees that are idiots, some people who make their living being pundits are also clueless. Perhaps BT should suspend her for a game or two. 

It will be a lot easier for you if you just admit you are gay

[badgerx16]

Is it correct that, as reported in the BBC match report, Brighton had a goal ruled out for offside after VAR took over 4 minutes to make a decision ?

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Is it correct that, as reported in the BBC match report, Brighton had a goal ruled out for offside after VAR took over 4 minutes to make a decision ?

Yep. It went on for ages.

[badgerx16]

PGMOL now admit that decisions at Newcastle and Chelsea were wrong.

Could there be a scenario where a club sues them for an incorrect decision ?

[Wade Garrett]

Not being funny, but the average man in the street has more of a clue than the VAR fucktards.

[kwsaint]

The VAR technology is not the problem.  It's the implementation and the way that it is used that is the big problem.  Pierluigi Collina was in charge of the refs and the use of VAR during the last world cup was very good.  Maybe get him in the sort out the muppets at the PL.  He wouldn't stand for any nonsense.

But the principle of getting a higher proportion of decisions right by using technology is right.

[Roo1976]

2 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

PGMOL now admit that decisions at Newcastle and Chelsea were wrong.

Could there be a scenario where a club sues them for an incorrect decision ?

And who was in charge of VAR for the Chelsea game.....................................DEAN. Who said after the game he thought about bringing the hair pulling incident to the attention of the ref but didnt. VAR is still the discretion of those in charge that still may have a different view to that of the ref, and therefore cast doubt over what was actually seen in real time, first time and not slowed down  and picked over. How many times already this season has a ref gone over to the monitor and changed his mind?,very few occasions last season,but now totally different,the Leeds manager was so incensed by the fact VAR wasnt used to look into a clear and obvious error by the on field ref that he was subsequently sent off .

[Paulwantsapint81]

The FA need to retain the services of good ex referees/assistant referees 

 

No idea if there are any young aspiring refs who suffer injuries who could become VAR

[Saint_clark]

2 hours ago, Paulwantsapint81 said:

The FA need to retain the services of good ex referees/assistant referees 

 

No idea if there are any young aspiring refs who suffer injuries who could become VAR

I think they 100% should be hired and trained specially, former refs shouldn't be anywhere near it. 

[Singapore Saint]

15 hours ago, Dman said:

I’ve seen some crap on here, but this is probably the worst. 
 

It’s like reading a MLT twitter post. Paranoid nonsense 

Please, you are free to disagree with MLT but there is no need to disparage him. There are some on here who agree with him, I being one of them. SRL is also largely in agreement, mind.

[rallyboy]

There's nothing wrong with VAR, it's just currently being operated by people who aren't very good at their jobs.

At the Euros it was quick, and in the main accurate.

We're constantly told that we plucky Brits lead the world in every field of human endeavour, but in reality, on refereeing standards?...we're halfway down League One.

 

[LiberalCommunist]

There's everything wrong with VAR. Even when it is implemented well, it still sucks the life out of the game we have grown to love. Even on a perfect goal, you know there's a chance they will find something, so you can't explode into celebration. 

But the really depressing thing is, it was brought in so it could clear up those close off sides, or sly handballs, so someone like us could maybe have a shot in a cup final. But truth be told, we are still very much likely to be fucked over in a cup final by VAR.

Bin it.

[eurosaint]

I think I'm right in saying that in the Newcastle, WHU & Arsenal incidents the refs actually gave goals in real time only to be overturned by dodgy VAR led decisions so it's pretty clear where the problem lies !

I've said for a while that ex-pros should be involved (obviously not where former loyalties could be involved) as surely they can be more objective regrading fouls, simulation etc, etc.. A mix of refs and pros could be ideal IMO. 

[Whitey Grandad]

37 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

I think I'm right in saying that in the Newcastle, WHU & Arsenal incidents the refs actually gave goals in real time only to be overturned by dodgy VAR led decisions so it's pretty clear where the problem lies !

I've said for a while that ex-pros should be involved (obviously not where former loyalties could be involved) as surely they can be more objective regrading fouls, simulation etc, etc.. A mix of refs and pros could be ideal IMO. 

There’s a big diff between an ex-pro and a fully trained and experienced referee. I have seen many instances where an ex-pro commentator doesn’t know the Laws of the Game.

In my view VAR shouldn’t get involved at all unless it is a clear and obvious howler.

[Saint Fan CaM]

40 minutes ago, eurosaint said:

I think I'm right in saying that in the Newcastle, WHU & Arsenal incidents the refs actually gave goals in real time only to be overturned by dodgy VAR led decisions so it's pretty clear where the problem lies !

I've said for a while that ex-pros should be involved (obviously not where former loyalties could be involved) as surely they can be more objective regrading fouls, simulation etc, etc.. A mix of refs and pros could be ideal IMO. 

Absolutely this…there needs to be clear blue water between the Refs on the field and the VAR officials as that’s the only way to stop the claims of cronyism etc. It is no different to a professional audit activity which will always be independent and unbiased.  That and a return to a place where VAR verifies the correctness of Ref decisions rather than act as an additional Ref of players actions would be a massive step forwards. Unfortunately though, it would not act in the best interests of the EPL money men and larger clubs.

[Saint Garrett]

I'd rather just use it for goal line tech, offsides, i.e. black and white decisions, and leave referees to just manage the game themselves. The referees wouldn't do a worse job than the current lot trying to use it, and we get as many howlers using VAR than we did without. Remove the subjectivity.

[Doctoroncall]

I don’t understand in this day and age of professional referees and officials why there isn’t improvement. There seems to be some fundamental issues here beyond ‘getting used to the VAR system’.  

[cloggy saint]

When the ref is advised to go to the monitor is he obliged to do so or can he just say that he's satisfied with his original decision?

[LiberalCommunist]

I think a lot of this comes down to cowardice. The bigger team, the home advantage. Take this weekend for instance. Whu's goal for 2-2. The ref could see an easy out. Toon's goal at Palace. Easy out. The Arsenal goal, an easy out, especially while Bruno is incessantly bitching in your year with a rabble of red shirts surrounding you. An easy out. Got to be brave with some of these decisions, but bravery is severely lacking with this crowd.

I don't trust them to make the right call, I think they are always looking for the easy option, the way out, the easy out. 

[eurosaint]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

There’s a big diff between an ex-pro and a fully trained and experienced referee. I have seen many instances where an ex-pro commentator doesn’t know the Laws of the Game.

In my view VAR shouldn’t get involved at all unless it is a clear and obvious howler.

That's exactly my point !

Refs should know the fine details of the rulebook and ex-pros should know all about the reality of playing at a high level (particularly "the dark arts" etc).

The combination of the two would surely give a more balanced view and hopefully lead to better decisions !!

[LeBizzier69]

1 hour ago, cloggy saint said:

When the ref is advised to go to the monitor is he obliged to do so or can he just say that he's satisfied with his original decision?

An an aside to this, it'd be nice to see a ref go to the monitor of his own volition to look at something, rather than only when being asked to. Just wander over and look if you're not sure. It's really not that difficult.

[alehouseboys]

The technology I'd liked to see implemented is linking the ref's watch to the scoreboards for all to see. And a fooking big buzzer going off to grab the official's attention when time is up!

[East Kent Saint]

When will they take action against players mobbing the Ref ? Make it captain only the rest booked if they protest directly

[BERMUDASAINT]

19 hours ago, Dman said:

I’ve seen some crap on here, but this is probably the worst. 
 

It’s like reading a MLT twitter post. Paranoid nonsense 

Oh Dman, you stalking me again,  you are so childish,  nothing to add to convo,  just rude insults.  You are such a waste of space.

So, same old tired excuses for our corrupt English refs,  they are just bad or poor decisions, they are scared or under pressure, we could use none refs, handicapped refs.....

Anything but the obvious,  they are corrupt.  They do it with intent to change the outcome. Why can rest of the world use it without such controversy,  how? How can you continue to hire these refs that make bad decisions for decades, why, no one answers that, decades is not a mistake! How can these same refs, who have been poor in fans, teams, coaches and owners eyes be given the OVERSEEING of VAR role, you think it is a coincidence? Can you tell me refs have not been generally harsher in their calls against smaller clubs when playing the big boys?

When it looks like a duck, quack like a duck....it is corrupt refs and the organisation behind it that SUPPORT it.

 

[Whitey Grandad]

34 minutes ago, alehouseboys said:

The technology I'd liked to see implemented is linking the ref's watch to the scoreboards for all to see. And a fooking big buzzer going off to grab the official's attention when time is up!

The referee is the sole arbiter of time. Time is only up when he/she says it is. the extra time displayed is just an indication for the benefit of the crowd. It is only ever a 'minimum'.

Having said that. a referee has to be fair to both teams but if Liverpool (say) are playing at home and need a late goal to win they often tend to score in 'Fergie Time'. They are now told not to whistle for full time if play is continuing and there is a chance of someone scoring. They are instructed to let the situation play out. This dates back to Clve Thomas and the World Cup of 1978 when he blew the final whistle just before Zico 'scored' a goal from a third corner in succession. I think he was right especially since Brazil had spent ages faffing about before taking the corner but Thomas was sent home from the tournament.

Why should he have added on time just so that Brazil could have had a chance to score? The game was 1-1 at the time and he should also have been fair to Sweden.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

21 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The referee is the sole arbiter of time. Time is only up when he/she says it is. the extra time displayed is just an indication for the benefit of the crowd. It is only ever a 'minimum'.

Having said that. a referee has to be fair to both teams but if Liverpool (say) are playing at home and need a late goal to win they often tend to score in 'Fergie Time'. They are now told not to whistle for full time if play is continuing and there is a chance of someone scoring. They are instructed to let the situation play out. This dates back to Clve Thomas and the World Cup of 1978 when he blew the final whistle just before Zico 'scored' a goal from a third corner in succession. I think he was right especially since Brazil had spent ages faffing about before taking the corner but Thomas was sent home from the tournament.

Why should he have added on time just so that Brazil could have had a chance to score? The game was 1-1 at the time and he should also have been fair to Sweden.

 

Thomas was the Mike Dean of the day, a complete and utter cock that wanted to be the centre of attention. He could have blown before the kick was taken, he loved the limelight, mincing off pointing at his watch. 

Edited 5 September, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Thomas was the Mike Dean of the day, a complete and utter cock that wanted to be the centre of attention. He could have blown before the kick was taken, he loved the limelight, mincing off pointing at his watch. 

You're quite right there. It's almost as though he waited for the kick before blowing up.

[edprice1984]

The first thing they should do is show the VAR replay on the big screen - like they do in Rugby Union. Everyone can see what they are looking at etc. This nonsense that the refs could be intimidated or the crowd could be riled up is nonsense. If the refs also are mic'd up and transmit the decision over the tannoy system (like in NFL) at least the fans could understand the process. Once a ref indicates VAR is being used, any player who approaches the ref should be booked. The only player that will be spoken to will be the Captain. 

VAR checks can take place behind the scenes during the game, but when the ref is alerted he must stop the game immediately.

I also believe that there should be a maximum time for VAR to make decisions. 3 mins max for example. Any longer then the decision on the field stands.

I also believe we should have a countdown clock, linked to the refs watch so that everyone knows how much actual time is left. This removes the need for 'Stoppage time' and again gives clarity for all watching and participating.

Any official, whether ref or VAR official who makes an 'significant' error should be banned for three weeks - equivalent of a red card. 

 

All of this is entirely wishful thinking, will never be introduced and we will continue to plod along for another decade or so.

[Dellman]

36 minutes ago, edprice1984 said:

The first thing they should do is show the VAR replay on the big screen - like they do in Rugby Union. Everyone can see what they are looking at etc. This nonsense that the refs could be intimidated or the crowd could be riled up is nonsense. If the refs also are mic'd up and transmit the decision over the tannoy system (like in NFL) at least the fans could understand the process. Once a ref indicates VAR is being used, any player who approaches the ref should be booked. The only player that will be spoken to will be the Captain. 

VAR checks can take place behind the scenes during the game, but when the ref is alerted he must stop the game immediately.

I also believe that there should be a maximum time for VAR to make decisions. 3 mins max for example. Any longer then the decision on the field stands.

I also believe we should have a countdown clock, linked to the refs watch so that everyone knows how much actual time is left. This removes the need for 'Stoppage time' and again gives clarity for all watching and participating.

Any official, whether ref or VAR official who makes an 'significant' error should be banned for three weeks - equivalent of a red card. 

 

All of this is entirely wishful thinking, will never be introduced and we will continue to plod along for another decade or so.

All this is entirely sensible which is why it will never happen

[VectisSaint]

On 04/09/2022 at 15:28, Kenilworthy said:

We saw at Cambridge what can happen without VAR. Che Adams had a perfectly good goal ruled out because an inexperienced referee "thought" a hand had been used.

and it had no material effect on the result and clearly wasn't big club biased. All referees make honest mistakes (but not all referees are honest), prefer to allow such mistakes to happen than to have a system in place that compound mistakes by making further ones. The problem is not VAR per se, but the useless idiots thatnuse it, along with the current laws of the game (e.g. offside) which have been tweeted to suit VAR rather than changed to reflect the original intent (stopping attackers gaining an unfair advantage) such that VAR is not required.

[Toadhall Saint]

8 hours ago, rallyboy said:

There's nothing wrong with VAR, it's just currently being operated by people who aren't very good at their jobs.

At the Euros it was quick, and in the main accurate.

We're constantly told that we plucky Brits lead the world in every field of human endeavour, but in reality, on refereeing standards?...we're halfway down League One.

 

Generous very generous 

[adrian lord]

You cannot have ex-pro players operating the VAR. That would be like ex-crooks and old lags sitting in judgment in the appeal courts. 

VAR should be operated only by very experienced top referees who are older and no longer suited to running around on the pitch, but can bring their wisdom and judgment and knowledge of the rules to bear on decisions that are possible clear and obvious errors. 

VAR should not be used to forensically examine all the lead up play to goals, searching for reasons to disallow them. This seems to be the way the pendulum has swung. It was never introduced for that purpose. 

Edited 5 September, 2022 by adrian lord

[Piran]

48 minutes ago, adrian lord said:

You cannot have ex-pro players operating the VAR. That would be like ex-crooks and old lags sitting in judgment in the appeal courts. 

VAR should be operated only by very experienced top referees who are older and no longer suited to running around on the pitch, but can bring their wisdom and judgment and knowledge of the rules to bear on decisions that are possible clear and obvious errors. 

VAR should not be used to forensically examine all the lead up play to goals, searching for reasons to disallow them. This seems to be the way the pendulum has swung. It was never introduced for that purpose. 

What? Like Peter Walton (?) on BT Sport?

[aintforever]

There have been a few howlers but in the main the decisions have been better with VAR than without.

I expect one problem is that referees, by their nature, are over-opinionated arseholes who want to stick there nose in when it is not needed and as soon as the ref is called over to the monitor he is under pressure to change his mind.

[OttawaSaint]

Trouble with having refs on it is that 90% of refs (at all levels) are complete cunts and probably only got into reffing because they didn't get picked for a football team and want some sort of petty revenge.

Should have seen this twat in my son's U14 game. Striding theatrically to pace out 10 yards, yellow carding a player for taking too long to go off when he was clearly injured and limping. Completely ignoring his linos all match, U14s!

 

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, OttawaSaint said:

Trouble with having refs on it is that 90% of refs (at all levels) are complete cunts and probably only got into reffing because they didn't get picked for a football team and want some sort of petty revenge.

Should have seen this twat in my son's U14 game. Striding theatrically to pace out 10 yards, yellow carding a player for taking too long to go off when he was clearly injured and limping. Completely ignoring his linos all match, U14s!

 

Careful!

[OttawaSaint]

1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Careful!

I'm putting you in the 10%...

[Whitey Grandad]

49 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

I'm putting you in the 10%...

What a wonderful judge of character you are 🤗

[BERMUDASAINT]

8 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The referee is the sole arbiter of time. Time is only up when he/she says it is. the extra time displayed is just an indication for the benefit of the crowd. It is only ever a 'minimum'.

Having said that. a referee has to be fair to both teams but if Liverpool (say) are playing at home and need a late goal to win they often tend to score in 'Fergie Time'. They are now told not to whistle for full time if play is continuing and there is a chance of someone scoring. They are instructed to let the situation play out. This dates back to Clve Thomas and the World Cup of 1978 when he blew the final whistle just before Zico 'scored' a goal from a third corner in succession. I think he was right especially since Brazil had spent ages faffing about before taking the corner but Thomas was sent home from the tournament.

Why should he have added on time just so that Brazil could have had a chance to score? The game was 1-1 at the time and he should also have been fair to Sweden.

 

That one of the blatant things they do for the chosen team in th PL, 8+ min for pool ? Small team chasing and the whistle will blow within seconds of a small  extra time. Ralf was livid with the 4 min for the last game. Obvious bias ignored by the millions.....billions.

[JRM]

The fact you can't celebrate a goal properly anymore is enough for me to give VAR the thumbs down