Jankewitz hands in transfer request

[saint1977]

7 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Think you'll start to see more of this. The Academy system really doesn't work for so many talented young players. These kids should be playing competitive senior football at 18 or so, not languishing in some u23/reserve team playing occasional games in a non competitive league looking for an occasional scrap to fall from the table and be given a 5 minute run out in the 1st team. They don't get the chance in the PL. I see the same thing is happening with a Polish kid at Man U. They are looking to go back home, not because they are home si k but because they want to play proper football. So often now a kid really doesn't start their career properly until they are about 23, 4 or 5 years wasted. Meanwhile the Club (I don't mean us in particular) buys in talent of the same age and they go straight into the 1st team. 

Wracking and stacking started in the early 2000s, Chelsea the worst offenders but others have been doing it. Agents and families getting greedy but in the majority of cases the player is playing second or third division football by 24. Saints have done it more selectively but their hand has been forced by Reed and his minions destroying the academy. Ralph hasn’t seen enough from him to start him yet despite a record of blooding young players and this from the agent and player won’t help matters. Player has to be careful he doesn’t end up like Callum Slattery, who seems to be drifting down the leagues despite a lot of headlines and hype when he was younger. Ask for a loan and sign a new deal because if Diallo carries on developing he will be sold in 12-18 months and the boy will have a PL CM starting opportunity that I’m not sure he would get elsewhere. Probably needs to change his agent.

[Mr Saints]

I agree this is unsurprising. It's all well and good saying we'd prefer our players to learn the Southampton way in the u-23s but these lads would surely rather be playing competitive football. Plenty of other Prem clubs have lost young talent to clubs on the continent so it's not unheard of. Playing competitive football in France, Belgium, Germany etc is a no brainer compared to the odd game against Stevenage for our u-23s in the JPT.

[John D]

It also highlights our challenge of keeping players happy but having a strong squad.  

Lots of valid comments recently about our squad depth given our injuries. But players good enough to play premier league won't settle for being 4th choice at Saints. Hence having the likes of Long and Stephens as reserves plus the youth. 

 

[redkeith]

I think that the Redmond/re-shuffle  substitution on Tuesday could have been the last straw, moving our best player on the night into his  position rather than give him a chance.  I know Watts got the plaudits against the Shrews, but Janekewitz looked streets ahead, mentally and physically when he game on. 

 

[Baird of the land]

14 minutes ago, redkeith said:

I think that the Redmond/re-shuffle  substitution on Tuesday could have been the last straw, moving our best player on the night into his  position rather than give him a chance.  I know Watts got the plaudits against the Shrews, but Janekewitz looked streets ahead, mentally and physically when he game on. 

 

Ralph seems to reward people with the right attitude.(Tella rewarded for impressing for U23's etc). My guess is that Jankewitz dropping right down the pecking order is of his own making.

[MarkSFC]

25 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Ralph seems to reward people with the right attitude.(Tella rewarded for impressing for U23's etc). My guess is that Jankewitz dropping right down the pecking order is of his own making.

Certainly sounds plausible if a 19 year old who is on the brink of the first team, albeit maybe a year to 18 months if all goes well, "appears" to be throwing his toys out of the pram because one or two other kids have got in ahead of him in a couple of games. Seems pathetic attitude to me. Ego drives achievement and successful people but it also destroys some. 

[Convict Colony]

Fairplay to him, wants to play, probably has another club already lined up.

 

One day we will be the other club in this equation.

[Mystic Force]

How is, I would like to go somewhere else to ply my trade because I think I will be better off in the long run, "Throwing toys out the pram" He followed the procedure in place to request the chance to go somewhere else. When you are not getting a chance here. I say fair play, The fact is that for the last few years players a little older than him waited for there chance, never got it and had to settle for clubs lower down the order, this guy has decided he does not want to do that. Its probably vital for development to be able to maximize your practicing of your art in the prime learning years if you are going to achieve the best result for yourself. It is not like he has downed tools are being greedy he just wants a chance to make a good career for himself and looking around can see what might happen if he just waits. If he is good enough it will not matter that he left and will demonstrate it, if he does not make the grade, at least he will find out sooner and can turn to something else.

[Noodles34]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

That was Adebeyor. Lowe met him but pulled the plug on the deal as didn’t like his attitude. For Drogba we could have got him for £3m before he joined Marseille. Lowe said he was too similar to Beattie so refused to sanction the deal. 

I bow to your your greater knowledge sir 

[suewhistle]

I don't blame the guy's desire, and perhaps this will get him some game time so that his state of readiness can be truly judged. The issue for the club is one of succession planning and dealing with injuries, as we have seen recently. Perhaps they expect one of the other midfielders to leave in the next year and are biding their time? Who knows?

Maybe a start against Wolves in the FA cup and some fresher, more experienced legs to come on later unless he has a blinder? There needs  to be good communication between club and player and perhaps this action will show the degree of his discontent.

[egg]

2 hours ago, Baird of the land said:

Ralph seems to reward people with the right attitude.(Tella rewarded for impressing for U23's etc). My guess is that Jankewitz dropping right down the pecking order is of his own making.

Whilst we don't know why he's been omitted, if Ralph has overlooked a youngster in favour of a lesser player seemingly for personality reasons, it would seem that a trend is developing.

Ralph has overlooked Obafemi in favour of N'Lundulu and having watched both of them play, it's hard to see how that is a football based decision. Obafemi has a first touch for a start. The suggestion though was attitude related. Slattery was cast aside and omitted from a pre season tour then sent to 2nd division side in Belgium or somewhere. He hasn't been near the 1st team squad since. The initial suggestion on here was that Slattery was omitted as he returned fat after pre season training, but that's nonsense as he chose to spend weeks in a boxing gym and returned in the shape of his life. That is a fact. The next suggestion was his attitude and that he'd never play whilst Ralph was at they club. 

If it is a personality thing with Jankewitz, and ditto Slattery and Obafemi, that may raise issues about these lads but if 3 x 1st team standard youngsters are excluded for non football reasons, I'd start to question the man management.

[Turkish]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

Whilst we don't know why he's been omitted, if Ralph has overlooked a youngster in favour of a lesser player seemingly for personality reasons, it would seem that a trend is developing.

Ralph has overlooked Obafemi in favour of N'Lundulu and having watched both of them play, it's hard to see how that is a football based decision. Obafemi has a first touch for a start. The suggestion though was attitude related. Slattery was cast aside and omitted from a pre season tour then sent to 2nd division side in Belgium or somewhere. He hasn't been near the 1st team squad since. The initial suggestion on here was that Slattery was omitted as he returned fat after pre season training, but that's nonsense as he chose to spend weeks in a boxing gym and returned in the shape of his life. That is a fact. The next suggestion was his attitude and that he'd never play whilst Ralph was at they club. 

If it is a personality thing with Jankewitz, and ditto Slattery and Obafemi, that may raise issues about these lads but if 3 x 1st team standard youngsters are excluded for non football reasons, I'd start to question the man management.

I think the Obafemi thing is more due to his failure to live up to his standards, it seems like he comes into the team does alright and thinks he's made it so slacks off, been a recurring issue by the sounds of it. Slattery is a weird one, like you say last summer he came back in the shape of him life, spent the close season training at Golden Ring as wanted to make a crack at first team and gets left out then loaned out, clearly not an attitude problem here so strange. As for Jankewitz, he's not had a look in apart from his 15 minutes which given how highly rated he is seems very strange. 

[TWar]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Whilst we don't know why he's been omitted, if Ralph has overlooked a youngster in favour of a lesser player seemingly for personality reasons, it would seem that a trend is developing.

Ralph has overlooked Obafemi in favour of N'Lundulu and having watched both of them play, it's hard to see how that is a football based decision. Obafemi has a first touch for a start. The suggestion though was attitude related. Slattery was cast aside and omitted from a pre season tour then sent to 2nd division side in Belgium or somewhere. He hasn't been near the 1st team squad since. The initial suggestion on here was that Slattery was omitted as he returned fat after pre season training, but that's nonsense as he chose to spend weeks in a boxing gym and returned in the shape of his life. That is a fact. The next suggestion was his attitude and that he'd never play whilst Ralph was at they club. 

If it is a personality thing with Jankewitz, and ditto Slattery and Obafemi, that may raise issues about these lads but if 3 x 1st team standard youngsters are excluded for non football reasons, I'd start to question the man management.

I think a major issue with Obafemi is that he is always injured and out the team. Maybe Ralph thinks this is because he doesn't take care of his body well enough, he has before compared it to an F1 car and also said he lacks professionalism. Either way I think you way underrate Nlundulu, he has looked pretty good to me, he is very raw but I am excited about him as a prospect as well as Tella.

[qwertyell]

22 minutes ago, TWar said:

Either way I think you way underrate Nlundulu, he has looked pretty good to me, he is very raw but I am excited about him as a prospect as well as Tella.

You'll have fun watching them turn out in League One in 18 months then.

N'Lundulu has a horrific touch. Aged 21, that's ingrained now. Tella is substantially less gifted than Josh Sims, who has been allowed to leave on a free to the lower leagues.

These guys have nowhere near the required quality to succeed. Nowhere near. Our "conveyor belt" of academy talent has long since dried up. The Prowse, Reed, Targett generation were the last batch of any worth.

Edited 28 January, 2021 by qwertyell

[SuperSAINT]

 

[Baird of the land]

2 hours ago, egg said:

Whilst we don't know why he's been omitted, if Ralph has overlooked a youngster in favour of a lesser player seemingly for personality reasons, it would seem that a trend is developing.

Ralph has overlooked Obafemi in favour of N'Lundulu and having watched both of them play, it's hard to see how that is a football based decision. Obafemi has a first touch for a start. The suggestion though was attitude related. Slattery was cast aside and omitted from a pre season tour then sent to 2nd division side in Belgium or somewhere. He hasn't been near the 1st team squad since. The initial suggestion on here was that Slattery was omitted as he returned fat after pre season training, but that's nonsense as he chose to spend weeks in a boxing gym and returned in the shape of his life. That is a fact. The next suggestion was his attitude and that he'd never play whilst Ralph was at they club. 

If it is a personality thing with Jankewitz, and ditto Slattery and Obafemi, that may raise issues about these lads but if 3 x 1st team standard youngsters are excluded for non football reasons, I'd start to question the man management.

I wouldn’t call it personality i’d Call it attitude/mentality which is absolutely essentially in being a talented failure or being a success. If yankewitz doesn’t want to play u23 games it probably shows and I agree with giving opportunities to ones trying to impress/improve over someone who doesn’t.

as for slattery maybe he was doing the wrong sort of work when he supposedly came back in the shape of his life which meant he didn’t impress to go on tour.

[verlaine1979]

1 hour ago, qwertyell said:

You'll have fun watching them turn out in League One in 18 months then.

N'Lundulu has a horrific touch. Aged 21, that's ingrained now. Tella is substantially less gifted than Josh Sims, who has been allowed to leave on a free to the lower leagues.

These guys have nowhere near the required quality to succeed. Nowhere near. Our "conveyor belt" of academy talent has long since dried up. The Prowse, Reed, Targett generation were the last batch of any worth.

This is what's so dispiriting about Jankewitz. He immediately looked to have the confidence and first touch of an established PL player when he came on. No nervous miscontrol, no desperate over-eagerness.

When was the last time you could say that about a Saints youth player being given a 5-10 minute cameo?

[davefizzy14]

2 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

This is what's so dispiriting about Jankewitz. He immediately looked to have the confidence and first touch of an established PL player when he came on. No nervous miscontrol, no desperate over-eagerness.

When was the last time you could say that about a Saints youth player being given a 5-10 minute cameo?

Jankewitz is a huge talent, so I would like to think he will be given more minutes in the upcoming games

[egg]

2 hours ago, qwertyell said:

You'll have fun watching them turn out in League One in 18 months then.

N'Lundulu has a horrific touch. Aged 21, that's ingrained now. Tella is substantially less gifted than Josh Sims, who has been allowed to leave on a free to the lower leagues.

These guys have nowhere near the required quality to succeed. Nowhere near. Our "conveyor belt" of academy talent has long since dried up. The Prowse, Reed, Targett generation were the last batch of any worth.

Yep, 100% agreed. 

N'Lundulu has something about him, but that first touch is shocking and will hold him back. 

Tella. I don't see a PL player there. He may have a great attitude, but attitude alone doesn't make a PL player. Sims wasn't quite PL level for me, but I agree he had more than this lad. 

If these lads are getting game time ahead of better players based on attitude, that's a concern for me. 

[S-Clarke]

I think N'Lundulu has something about him, but that's his strength and power in the main. His touch in the last couple of appearances, as people have said, was shocking.

Tella - not seen anything there, don't see a top level player at all. Doesn't seem to have it for me.

I've heard so much chatter about Jankewitz over the years...so I was kind of excited to finally see him. Better touch/presence and technique than N'Lundulu, Watts, Chaulke or Tella in that small time he was on the pitch. There's obviously something with his attitude, but I'd be frustrated as well if I wasn't getting the chances. He probably thinks he's a better player than Watts and he's probably not wrong...

If he does go then I think we'll be looking back in a few years time with a frustrated feeling, whilst Watts/Chulke head out on their 15th loan to Tranmere rovers.

[egg]

1 hour ago, Baird of the land said:

I wouldn’t call it personality i’d Call it attitude/mentality which is absolutely essentially in being a talented failure or being a success. If yankewitz doesn’t want to play u23 games it probably shows and I agree with giving opportunities to ones trying to impress/improve over someone who doesn’t.

as for slattery maybe he was doing the wrong sort of work when he supposedly came back in the shape of his life which meant he didn’t impress to go on tour.

We have no idea why Jankewitz is being denied involvement. However, he's a great talent, and his being pissed off is understandable if he's been fit but excluded. 

Slattery was doing boxing training for weeks. His fitness and shape were excellent. The info (leak?) on here was that he returned fat. He wasn't, but let's assume that he was, seeking out a well known boxing trainer and working one to one for weeks on the close season hardly suggests an undisciplined attitude.

Obafemi is better than N'lundulu, Jankewitz is better than any other young midfielder we have, Slattery is quality. If all those lads aren't toeing the line and/or putting the work in, and are being denied first team involvement as a consequence then the man management of them has to be questioned.

[suewhistle]

I haven't seen enough of Jankewitz to comment too much, although the signs were positive, but in the case of Slattery he never quite seemed up to it when he's been given the chance. Certainly Smallbone looked a lot better, particularly with regard to pace and effort, on his last outing. 

Perhaps there'll be more opportunities when games are won or are less critical. I take what you are saying egg, but we've seen so many players not make it due to poor attitude, or thinking that they'd already made it that some caution on the club's part is understandable.

 

[Badger]

11 hours ago, qwertyell said:

 

It seems like he's got a bit about him and isn't prepared to let his development stagnate any further at a club that talks up its reputation for bringing on youth players; but in practice is something that has sadly become a bit of a myth in recent years.

Agree to some extent, although I think the myth is that we have an ongoing conveyer belt of youthful talent coming through rather than giving them the opportunity. 

In 2014 the media likened us to Ajax, and of course Les lapped it up. Truth is we haven't got the track record they have for season after season providing a crop of outstanding players. Since the 2012-14 crop of Lallana (when sold), Shaw, Chambers, JWP all breaking through at about the same time it's been pretty lean.

Not a case of not giving them the chance, just that the standard hasn't been up to it. 

[HarvSFC]

Same happened with the first team. Ralph immediately shipped out those who weren’t willing to buy into his philosophy and embrace it fully - Hoedt, Lemina, Cedric, Austin and Boufal last summer. The first team definitely hasn’t suffered for this. Vestergaard, JWP, Romeu, Armstrong and Ings have all seemingly put the work in off the pitch and have noticeably improved the most in the squad following the Hughes reign. 
 

We thought we shouldn’t have signed Ings, Vestergaard was too slow for this league, Romeu was too slow with his best years behind him, Armstrong was average at best and JWP was being linked with moves to Watford and Burnley after struggling to cement a first team place. Now, they’re the core of our team. 
 

So, obviously this is not always going to work as simply as good attitude = succeed and poor attitude = decline. However, given the clear evidence regarding the first team, it’s bizarre to be questioning Hassenhuttl’s man management of individuals.
 

Everything about our youth team is pure speculation. We simply do not see enough of them, because there isn’t enough media surrounding them, other than the odd soundbite of “xxxxx” is the next big thing! Like we did with Slattery, who was constantly linked to Arsenal in the media. However, if he was Southampton quality and if his loan was an example of cutting off your nose to spite your face due to off field reasons, then Gillingham wouldn’t have been an option for him at 21.

[sadoldgit]

Not sure why the youngsters like Tella are being written off already? Many very experience players come to the PL and take some time to get up the required level. Why do we expect more from the kids?

[S-Clarke]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Not sure why the youngsters like Tella are being written off already? Many very experience players come to the PL and take some time to get up the required level. Why do we expect more from the kids?

I find it hard to class Tella as a 'youngster', he's 22 this year. I'd expect to see much more from him by this age if he's going to be a mainstay.

Youngsters for me are 16/17/18/19 year olds.

F**k me, I sound old now.

[verlaine1979]

21 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I find it hard to class Tella as a 'youngster', he's 22 this year. I'd expect to see much more from him by this age if he's going to be a mainstay.

Youngsters for me are 16/17/18/19 year olds.

F**k me, I sound old now.

I think it used to be the case that the level of protection was much lower, so players had to be a bit older to cope physically, but that hasn't been the case for years. In attacking positions in particular, if you're not ready to make a telling contribution at the highest level by 21, you'll probably never be ready.

[washsaint]

50 minutes ago, verlaine1979 said:

I think it used to be the case that the level of protection was much lower, so players had to be a bit older to cope physically, but that hasn't been the case for years. In attacking positions in particular, if you're not ready to make a telling contribution at the highest level by 21, you'll probably never be ready.

Cobblers - Harry Kane?  Adam Lallana?

The writing off of younger players like Tella (who had a horrible injury) is par for the course for this forum.  How about letting them have a run of games to actually be given a shot rather than writing them off after a small number of sub appearances?

Matt Targett certainly isn't doing too bad at Villa now he's playing regular football.

[verlaine1979]

4 minutes ago, washsaint said:

Cobblers - Harry Kane?  Adam Lallana?

The writing off of younger players like Tella (who had a horrible injury) is par for the course for this forum.  How about letting them have a run of games to actually be given a shot rather than writing them off after a small number of sub appearances?

Matt Targett certainly isn't doing too bad at Villa now he's playing regular football.

Both Kane and Lallana were nailed-on starters for their clubs by the age of 21. Thank you for illustrating my point so adroitly.

[Baird of the land]

2 hours ago, egg said:

We have no idea why Jankewitz is being denied involvement. However, he's a great talent, and his being pissed off is understandable if he's been fit but excluded. 

Slattery was doing boxing training for weeks. His fitness and shape were excellent. The info (leak?) on here was that he returned fat. He wasn't, but let's assume that he was, seeking out a well known boxing trainer and working one to one for weeks on the close season hardly suggests an undisciplined attitude.

Obafemi is better than N'lundulu, Jankewitz is better than any other young midfielder we have, Slattery is quality. If all those lads aren't toeing the line and/or putting the work in, and are being denied first team involvement as a consequence then the man management of them has to be questioned.

If he's the great talent you maintain he is the most likely reason is he isn't putting in the effort and therefore not impressing despite being talented.

Maybe boxing training wasn't what Slattery should have been doing in preparation for that season.

I'd want to review the academy and check that they are firmly communicating what's expected of the players. There's certainly not the blocked pathway to the first team that there was previously.

 

 

 

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

I find it hard to class Tella as a 'youngster', he's 22 this year. I'd expect to see much more from him by this age if he's going to be a mainstay.

Youngsters for me are 16/17/18/19 year olds.

F**k me, I sound old now.

Okay, for youngster read inexperienced. If you have seen any of the B team games you will know a first team game is a massive step up.

[Saint-Beer]

Funny, happen to think Watts has a lot about him and shows he is calm on the pitch.
This clips shows a player with potential, https://t.co/yo4n6BETV5?amp=1.

[Uncle Albert]

17 hours ago, egg said:

 

N'Lundulu has something about him, but that first touch is shocking and will hold him back.

Yeah, but this is something he will undoubtedly work on improving given his hardworking attitude.

[Convict Colony]

Apparent bid rejected and they will be back in summer

To accommodate possible departure of Matusiwa
FC Groningen would prefer Jankewitz to take over this transfer period so that he could develop behind Azor Matusiwa. The leader of the Pride of the North has said he wants to leave next summer. With the arrival of Jankewitz, this would have been pre-sorted by technical director Mark-Jan Fledderus.

Edited 29 January, 2021 by Convict Colony

[saintwbu]

15 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Both Kane and Lallana were nailed-on starters for their clubs by the age of 21. Thank you for illustrating my point so adroitly.

What about Kyle Walker-Peters who joined us at 23, having only played about 13 games for Spurs and being written off as not good enough? There are countless examples of players taking a while to make an impact in their career, or having to drop down to come back up to the top level later on. Age is just one factor. 

[Matthew Le God]

16 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Both Kane and Lallana were nailed-on starters for their clubs by the age of 21. 

Lallana was not a Premier League regular at 21 years old. He was a Saints player in League One.

[Turkish]

16 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Both Kane and Lallana were nailed-on starters for their clubs by the age of 21. Thank you for illustrating my point so adroitly.

Kane didn't make his premier league start until April 2014 when he was just a couple of months short of being 21. Before that he was on loan at Leicester, Norwich and Millwall. 2014/15 was his break through season though when he was 21.

[verlaine1979]

Clearly I'm not saying that only players who've made it by 21 will make it. My point is that player development is such that you can almost always tell if an attacking player is going to be good enough to make it by that age - assuming they get given enough sub opportunities that you actually get to see them play.

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

Lallana was not a Premier League regular at 21 years old. He was a Saints player in League One.

And yes, I'm aware that Lallana was a League One regular at 21. Saying a player who was contracted to a lower league club wasn't playing in the Premier League isn't the empirical flourish you think it is.

[SaintTex]

On 28/01/2021 at 11:56, davefizzy14 said:

Jankewitz is a huge talent, so I would like to think he will be given more minutes in the upcoming games

well, he got his first PL minutes tonight late which is interesting, i guess.

Edited 31 January, 2021 by SaintTex

[stevy777_x]

6 minutes ago, SaintTex said:

well, he got his first PL minutes tonight late which is interesting, i guess.

In the few minutes he got tonight, you can see he has something about him.

Has a very bright future whether that is at Saints or not.

[verlaine1979]

Didn't look out of place at all when he came on. Found space, asked for the ball, and played a couple of decent passes - one particularly incisive one in the build up to the disallowed goal.

Wishful thinking probably, but would love it if he turns out to have what it takes to play as a 10 (a bit like Pogba at Juventus).

[egg]

5 hours ago, verlaine1979 said:

Didn't look out of place at all when he came on. Found space, asked for the ball, and played a couple of decent passes - one particularly incisive one in the build up to the disallowed goal.

Wishful thinking probably, but would love it if he turns out to have what it takes to play as a 10 (a bit like Pogba at Juventus).

Yep. He seemed to have the trust of his team mates who fed him the ball (apart from one moment when JWP, I think, made the wrong choice by ignoring him). Always available, used the ball well, looked strong and confident. 

I hope that he gets more football. He's a big talent. 

 

[pimpin4rizeal]

Tricky situation now even if we do rate him.

not a lot of point making room for him if he’s not gonna stay or sign new contract anyway?

need to sort something out if we see him as the next big thing 

[Roo1976]

Now Diallo has picked up an unfortunate injury play him in the middle jwp out on right redmond left and armstrong and ings up front?

[Jonnyboy]

Well if that's our Next Big Thing it seems a good summary of where the club is at the moment. 

[Fatboy40]

 

 

[Lighthouse]

TBF I’ve seen much older, wiser, better players make more foolish mistakes than that. He’ll live and learn from this I’m sure, although it’s scarcely a comfort for anyone in the short term.

[darren2]

Jesus, that's how yo put yourself in the shop window..... 

[Pilchards]

That was reckless and pathetic.

The club gives you a chance and you go and do that.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

what an absolute twat. lost us the game before it even starts