Saints Vs Villa - Match Thread

[vin]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Thanks found it.

It gets even more bizarre, because there was a blatant foul on Diallo as he played the ball forward to Stu as well.

The taters didn't even comment on it. None of our players questioned it.

The lino is supposed to keep his flag down until the phase of play is over. What exactly has he seen here? It's just mental.

I think it must be Ings coming from an offside position to play the ball after Diallo is fouled - Mings has his arm up claiming it. Can’t see from that clip as they’re out of shot.

[Whitey Grandad]

6 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Thanks found it.

It gets even more bizarre, because there was a blatant foul on Diallo as he played the ball forward to Stu as well.

The taters didn't even comment on it. None of our players questioned it.

The lino is supposed to keep his flag down until the phase of play is over. What exactly has he seen here? It's just mental.

He must have been watching a different game. I don’t know what he’s flagged for there. It’s definitely an offside signal and not a foul and the flag position indicates that the offender is in the central portion of the pitch.

Nope, no Saints player in an offside position there.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 minute ago, vin said:

I think it must be Ings coming from an offside position to play the ball after Diallo is fouled - Mings has his arm up claiming it. Can’t see from that clip as they’re out of shot.

That’s a vague possibility. The rules changed over where the free kick Incan be taken from but it’s all very bizarre.

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, vin said:

I think it must be Ings coming from an offside position to play the ball after Diallo is fouled - Mings has his arm up claiming it. Can’t see from that clip as they’re out of shot.

I can only assume that's it. But looking at the position of Konsa when the ball gets forward to Stu, I don't see how he could possibly have been higher up the pitch than Danny when the ball left Diallo's foot.

Very strange.

[Totton Saint]

11 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

How poorly is Valery rated that he is effectively 3rd choice RB behind Prowsey and Djenepo ?

Good point

[cloggy saint]

Admittedly I only saw motd highlights but from that I thought we looked good and but for some very good goalkeeping and defending from Villa we could've scored enough to win 2 games. There's no point bleating about the officials, it is what it is and there's nothing to be done about it, EVERY team has or will fall victim to it at some stage of the season. One massive positive (sort of) is our strong start to the season because if it wasn't for that we'd be in trouble after our recent run. 

[Charlie Wayman]

Understandably there is a lot of disappointment about the way things went last night but focusing solely on the alleged errors of the match officials rather begs the point.

We are not scoring goals and it seems we cannot score goals. What we saw from Saints last night seemed more like desperation to me than a grand plan to put things right. From the outset we seemed to be playing a very flexible system based on fast running and frequent positional interchanges where the front four were popping up all over the place. Even the MF duo and the full backs joined in the mix at times. The nominal starting positions on the team sheet served only to misdirect the opposition. We had a lot of the ball and Villa couldn't get a foothold but we never seemed to have clear plan of where it was all supposed to lead..

Initially it all was very dynamic and exciting and looked as though it might achieve good results but as time went by more and more it resembled a bunch of headless chickens left to their own devices and to making it up as they went along. As pretty as it looked there were few occasions when we got through their lines and too many misdirected speculative crosses into the box were easily defended by a stout and determined Villa defence. We lost because we just did not know how to unlock a packed defence that too many times forced us to play down the wings and resort to lobbing balls into the box where we were always second best.

Deflecting the whole debacle to a couple of admittedly dodgy VAR decisions avoids confronting the reality of our situation. We have very few papers of genuine quality who can make a difference to the outcome of games. Although he is a figure of hate here Grealish is the sort of player that we do not have. I am not suggesting that we have a team of mostly hard working journeymen but it is beginning look like that. Even Ings looked pedestrian last night and the only player that deservesd any credit was Oriol Romeu who did what he always does in his usual dogged and determined way but he is not a match winner.

Has Ralph taking this bunch of players as far as he can? As frustration mounts and results continue to disappoint maybe he and others are beginning to ask this question.

 

Edited 31 January, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Lee On Solent Saint]

You have to ask yourself if this shitshow of incompetent decision making would have happened at Old Trafford or Anfield? I would wager that 99 times out 100 penalties for that type of offence would be given for Liverpool, United and City. If Mike Dean is the referee this coming Tuesday we had better not make any tackles anywhere on the pitch. 

[Toussaint]

50 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Understandably there is a lot of disappointment about the way things went last night but focusing solely on the alleged errors of the match officials rather begs the point.

We are not scoring goals and it seems we cannot score goals. What we saw from Saints last night seemed more like desperation to me than a grand plan to put things right. From the outset we seemed to be playing a very flexible system based on fast running and frequent positional interchanges where the front four were popping up all over the place. Even the MF duo and the full backs joined in the mix at times. The nominal starting positions on the team sheet served only to misdirect the opposition. We had a lot of the ball and Villa couldn't get a foothold but we never seemed to have clear plan of where it was all supposed to lead..

Initially it all was very dynamic and exciting and looked as though it might achieve good results but as time went by more and more it resembled a bunch of headless chickens left to their own devices and to making it up as they went along. As pretty as it looked there were few occasions when we got through their lines and too many misdirected speculative crosses into the box were easily defended by a stout and determined Villa defence. We lost because we just did not know how to unlock a packed defence that too many times forced us to play down the wings and resort to lobbing balls into the box where we were always second best.

Deflecting the whole debacle to a couple of admittedly dodgy VAR decisions avoids confronting the reality of our situation. We have very few papers of genuine quality who can make a difference to the outcome of games. Although he is a figure of hate here Grealish is the sort of player that we do not have. I am not suggesting that we have a team of mostly hard working journeymen but it is beginning look like that. Even Ings looked pedestrian last night and the only player that deservesd any credit was Oriol Romeu who did what he always does in his usual dogged and determined way but he is not a match winner.

Has Ralph taking this bunch of players as far as he can? As frustration mounts and results continue to disappoint maybe he and others are beginning to ask this question.

 

Totally agree with everything you said.  Been saying it for a few weeks. All the planets aligned for our good run, it was never sustainable. 

[Fan The Flames]

I think the fixed notion that it's either offside or not is dead. The technology is not there to definitely say either way. 

The authorities have to acknowledge that there is a point where they can't say either way and then they have to choose how they deal with these, advantage to the defence or the attack. Simple.

[kyle04]

So if, say, Ings had scored with the ball coming off his shirt sleeve (upper arm?), would the goal stand or be given handball? I think probably the latter, if so the rules don't make sense, if that part of his body was "offside" and so by definition a "legal" area of the body...?

[Chapel End]

Not many are mentioning the "foul" by Romeu on Martinez...................... never in a million...

[Fabrice29]

2 hours ago, vin said:

I think it must be Ings coming from an offside position to play the ball after Diallo is fouled - Mings has his arm up claiming it. Can’t see from that clip as they’re out of shot.

It's clearly this FWIW. Mings is calling for it, you can see the linesman consider putting his flag up when Ings collects it too but decides to see how the move pans out. 

[Whitey Grandad]

32 minutes ago, kyle04 said:

So if, say, Ings had scored with the ball coming off his shirt sleeve (upper arm?), would the goal stand or be given handball? I think probably the latter, if so the rules don't make sense, if that part of his body was "offside" and so by definition a "legal" area of the body...?

That is exactly the point. For offside purposes you ignore any part of the body from which you cannot score. Basically, you ignore any tattooed bits that you can see.

[Fabrice29]

1 hour ago, kyle04 said:

So if, say, Ings had scored with the ball coming off his shirt sleeve (upper arm?), would the goal stand or be given handball? I think probably the latter, if so the rules don't make sense, if that part of his body was "offside" and so by definition a "legal" area of the body...?

It would stand. Goals have been scored with that part of the arm this season already. 

Edited 31 January, 2021 by Fabrice29

[Nolan]

This Danish coach spotted that after the handball situation, we should have had a corner kick. Especially if it 'fairly' went out of play from Cash's defensive move.

Play re-started by Martinez taking a free kick.

 

http://twitter.com/HZakrisson/status/1355854482043785216?s=19

Edited 31 January, 2021 by Nolan

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, Nolan said:

This Danish coach spotted that after the handball situation, we should have had a corner kick. Especially if it 'fairly' went out of play from Cash's defensive move.

Play re-started by Martinez taking a free kick.

 

http://twitter.com/HZakrisson/status/1355854482043785216?s=19

Lee Mason had his left arm raised for the free kick which can only have meant offside, probably against Ings.

[Nolan]

26 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Lee Mason had his left arm raised for the free kick which can only have meant offside, probably against Ings.

 

Sleeve again then

[redkeith]

31 minutes ago, Nolan said:

 

Sleeve again then

Also, if it came of Cash's thigh and arm then Ings should be onside, like the goal that Watkins scored last week !

[Whitey Grandad]

3 minutes ago, redkeith said:

Also, if it came of Cash's thigh and arm then Ings should be onside, like the goal that Watkins scored last week !

 'Deliberately played' by the defender?

[Fan The Flames]

Doesn't Ings become offside once he goes for the ball.

[Shropshire Saint]

Interesting that in THAT match last season  (the one we talk about)  Ryan was sent off early on as a result of a VAR decision. The VAR ref on that occasion was.... Mike Dean.

[Saint Keef]

I have long had a theory. Maybe even a conspiracy theory. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have thought this. I am definitely not naming any names here, but some of the refereeing decisions we see every season are absolutely baffling. Inexplicable to us fans who watch games week in, week out. 

Referees work along-side and mix with players every week. They earn reasonable money, but a fraction of what the "mega bucks" players around them are earning. Temptation must be there. Betting syndicates from the far east (China? but other countries too) are very powerful organisations and offer enormous amounts of money to individuals in sport to throw matches (we've seen it on the continent in football and indeed in Test Match cricket). What if these betting syndicates were to get into the referees in this country? Bets on the number or corners, number of fouls, sending off's, throw ins, yellow cards., match scores, both teams to score, or a simple "There must not be a penalty in this game" etc etc.

Yes I'm angry about the injustice of last night, but it's not just our games,  this is happening in so many games. 

Lets just say I wouldn’t be at all surprised if in the future it was discovered there is high level corruption of this type in the game. And that will blow the roof off the Premier League forever!!!

There - I've said it.

[cloggy saint]

4 minutes ago, Saint Keef said:

I have long had a theory. Maybe even a conspiracy theory. I'm sure I'm not the only one to have thought this. I am definitely not naming any names here, but some of the refereeing decisions we see every season are absolutely baffling. Inexplicable to us fans who watch games week in, week out. 

Referees work along-side and mix with players every week. They earn reasonable money, but a fraction of what the "mega bucks" players around them are earning. Temptation must be there. Betting syndicates from the far east (China? but other countries too) are very powerful organisations and offer enormous amounts of money to individuals in sport to throw matches (we've seen it on the continent in football and indeed in Test Match cricket). What if these betting syndicates were to get into the referees in this country? Bets on the number or corners, number of fouls, sending off's, throw ins, yellow cards., match scores, both teams to score, or a simple "There must not be a penalty in this game" etc etc.

Yes I'm angry about the injustice of last night, but it's not just our games,  this is happening in so many games. 

Lets just say I wouldn’t be at all surprised if in the future it was discovered there is high level corruption of this type in the game. And that will blow the roof off the Premier League forever!!!

There - I've said it.

Interesting, what are your thoughts on the moon landings and Qanon?

[rallyboy]

You lot need to stop moaning, these things even themselves out.

Yes we got robbed of a penalty, possible red card, two decent goals and three points that equal a six point swing - but next month we'll probably get gifted a throw-in on the halfway line or a goalkick.

😊👍

[derry]

We are too slow to pass the ball forward when the central defence just slows everything down and aimlessly retains possession usually resulting in McCarthy kicking anywhere. Bednarek is bad but Stephens is worse. Build from the back but don't just retain the ball setting up the opposition with the ideal circumstances to win the ball back. It's happening far too often and we are not opening up teams because they are being given time to get back in numbers.  

Stephens is a hopeless centre back because he is a constant ball watcher focussing on the ball picking up nobody and rarely checking behind him. There are countless goals we have conceded because of this. The latest yesterday from the time Targett put in Grealish he never once checked behind him. Barkley consequently was unchallenged although he had been behind him for a while. He is often late with challenges again through being caught out. It's not a new fault but patently it is not being addressed. Part of the problem is his body positioning or rather lack of it. Focussing on the ball rather than on his positioning and ability to see the threat behind him by turning more sideways  on enabling him to see both the ball and the threat.

[Whitey Grandad]

16 minutes ago, derry said:

We are too slow to pass the ball forward when the central defence just slows everything down and aimlessly retains possession usually resulting in McCarthy kicking anywhere. Bednarek is bad but Stephens is worse. Build from the back but don't just retain the ball setting up the opposition with the ideal circumstances to win the ball back. It's happening far too often and we are not opening up teams because they are being given time to get back in numbers.  

Stephens is a hopeless centre back because he is a constant ball watcher focussing on the ball picking up nobody and rarely checking behind him. There are countless goals we have conceded because of this. The latest yesterday from the time Targett put in Grealish he never once checked behind him. Barkley consequently was unchallenged although he had been behind him for a while. He is often late with challenges again through being caught out. It's not a new fault but patently it is not being addressed. Part of the problem is his body positioning or rather lack of it. Focussing on the ball rather than on his positioning and ability to see the threat behind him by turning more sideways  on enabling him to see both the ball and the threat.

Yep. Last night it was painful to watch Stephens with the ball at his feet. All the players on both sides were standing around with their hands in their hips waiting for him to make his mind up until he rolled it back to McCarthy,

[vutneks]

I'm from turkey a southampton supporter,Until this age, I haven't seen such injustice against a team in the premier league, they killed the match yesterday. 

Why don't you react to it as fans?  The match against that referee should no longer be given, she is a murderer.   As fans you must seek Southampton's justice

If she did the injustice that the referee did yesterday to any team in our country, even her life would be at risk

 

Edited 31 January, 2021 by vutneks

[trousers]

25 minutes ago, vutneks said:

I'm from turkey a southampton supporter,Until this age, I haven't seen such injustice against a team in the premier league, they killed the match yesterday. 

Why don't you react to it as fans?  The match against that referee should no longer be given, she is a murderer.   As fans you must seek Southampton's justice

If she did the injustice that the referee did yesterday to any team in our country, even her life would be at risk

 

We can get quite nasty when we're *really* angry...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/saints-fans-protest-white-hankies-greet-mauricio-pochettino-8458816.html

 

Edited 31 January, 2021 by trousers

[LiberalCommunist]

Absolutely gutting result last night, and most of that has been covered here already. But one thing that has annoyed me even more today is how the media have skipped over it so readily. There isn't another ref combo of Mason/Dean that would have come to those decisions, but BT didn't even mention Romeu's disallowed goal. And our very own highlight show on YT skipped it as well. The two VAR decisions were disgusting, but I feel even worse about the goalkeeping howler that they so easily got away with. They say these things even themselves out over a season, if so we are on a Champions League adventure because we are owed BIG time!

[Appy]

51 minutes ago, trousers said:

We can get quite nasty when we're *really* angry...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/saints-fans-protest-white-hankies-greet-mauricio-pochettino-8458816.html

 

And there were about two in the whole stadium too. 

[VectisSaint]

9 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

 

Seriously, how can you say we were rubbish? Sure we've played better, but Ings move to get the handball play was great, as was his ball through to Adam's. And the goal was also good play.

We are also fucked with injuries just now, not 1 or 2, but about 8. 

I heard Liverpool are looking for new supporters, but as they haven't played well lately I guess you may now be applying ...

Firstly, a word of advice, don't judge other people by your own standards of behaviour, just because you are a fanboy and think supporting other clubs is something that you would do, other people have a higher regard for the team they have supported for over 50 years. If I had wanted to support some other team than the one I first went to see when I was 11 and have followed all over the country ever since I would have done so many years ago when other bad performances may have tipped me over the edge. I certainly wouldn't have supported Liverpool at any stage, who would want to?

Its a great shame that last night's refereeing issues overshadowed the rest of the game, because it detracts from the fact that we were very poor. Having one great play near the end of a game that we are chasing because of how poor we have played doesn't mean we played well, and whether you agree with the offside decision or not (and I don't) in the end it didn't count, so can't be classed as a great move. Its not unusual to have great chances in the last few minutes when chasing a gam, but you have to consider why we were in the position we were, for 80+ minutes we were toothless, wasteful, error prone, lacking in energy, suffering from players playing in unfamiliar/wrong positions, not pressing, giving far too much room to Grealish (due to players playing out of position). we were dreadful. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, our dreadful injury crisis for a start (as I mentioned we missed KWP more than anyone). But having an injury crisis doesn't mean we can't criticise the team that was out there and call out that they were mostly dreadful (actually I have to say that I was perhaps unfair on Romeu, because last night he was superb, until he went off injured at the end, and showed starkly what we had missed in his absence, sorry but Diallo my be good but he is not in the same class as Romeu when he is on song). To be fair the defence didn't play bad, Bednarek, Stephens and Bertrand did well, but then they were only up against Aston Villa. We couldn't handle the little shit Grealish though, but that was largely inevitable given that we didn't have anyone available who could do a job on him (playing JWP at RB was a double whammy, firstly he is not a RB, we have seen before, too slow, but also it took him out of the position where he has been superb this season. Sure, this is a criticism based on our injury crisis, but unfortunately it is something we have to live with, we can't just say we played well given what we had, we didn't. Ralph does have to address the issues highlighted in this game and a few others recently, we have lost the energy and the pressing game is not functioning. we are not getting in and around the box and creating good chances like we were. Having a good go in the last 10 minutes isn't what its all about, we need to be doing that in the first 80 minutes, and scoring goals. One clear issue we have at the moment is that Ingsy is clearly not fit (not to his high standards). He has not really been right since his injury before Christmas, and I suspect the Covid infection has made matters somewhat worse. His game is not just about scoring goals, its much more than that, its about his energy, his making space, its about his tracking back, helping out in defence, there was little sign of any of that last night. That's not his fault, but it explains why we played badly (please don't mention his contract situation, clearly this is nothing to do with that).

In the end, we were as i said very poor, abysmal last night. There are extenuating circumstances, of course there are, but papering over the cracks and pretending we played well and it was only those horrible nasty referees were the problem is to completely miss the point. There were some terrible refereeing decisions last night, but in the end we scored nil goals and nil points because we weren't good enough against a very average Villa.

[Jeremy]

With respect, what you say may be true but I think the issue is that the result could have been different if it had been adjudicated properly; that officiating was unjust. Also my apologies for possibly speaking out of turn: you being a loyal fan for decades and me not even having been to a game (but been a distance follower for decades). Last thing I want is to be perceived on here as a disrespectful know-all.  Those comments about you were probably frustrated venting - not personal. 

[Saint Keef]

5 hours ago, cloggy saint said:

Interesting, what are your thoughts on the moon landings and Qanon?

Don't even get me started on the moon landings!!! 😀 But since you ask......Everybody knows that a man has never landed on the moon.................but a woman has.

I speak of course, of Princess Diana, who was the first and only person to land on the moon. She was then murdered by Elvis Presley, who at the time was working as an undercover cop in Paris. His boss, Robert Maxwell, ordered the "hit". Both Presley and Maxwell, together with their butler, Adolf Hitler, are now fugitives, living on a boat endlessly drifting around the Solent. Some say you can see this boat when there is a full moon and (just to keep it Saints topical) can hear them shouting......"Come on ref - that was definitely a penalty. Goddamn VAR". If you doubt any of this, just ask my mate......David Ike.☠️

[maysie]

2 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Firstly, a word of advice, don't judge other people by your own standards of behaviour, just because you are a fanboy and think supporting other clubs is something that you would do, other people have a higher regard for the team they have supported for over 50 years. If I had wanted to support some other team than the one I first went to see when I was 11 and have followed all over the country ever since I would have done so many years ago when other bad performances may have tipped me over the edge. I certainly wouldn't have supported Liverpool at any stage, who would want to?

Its a great shame that last night's refereeing issues overshadowed the rest of the game, because it detracts from the fact that we were very poor. Having one great play near the end of a game that we are chasing because of how poor we have played doesn't mean we played well, and whether you agree with the offside decision or not (and I don't) in the end it didn't count, so can't be classed as a great move. Its not unusual to have great chances in the last few minutes when chasing a gam, but you have to consider why we were in the position we were, for 80+ minutes we were toothless, wasteful, error prone, lacking in energy, suffering from players playing in unfamiliar/wrong positions, not pressing, giving far too much room to Grealish (due to players playing out of position). we were dreadful. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, our dreadful injury crisis for a start (as I mentioned we missed KWP more than anyone). But having an injury crisis doesn't mean we can't criticise the team that was out there and call out that they were mostly dreadful (actually I have to say that I was perhaps unfair on Romeu, because last night he was superb, until he went off injured at the end, and showed starkly what we had missed in his absence, sorry but Diallo my be good but he is not in the same class as Romeu when he is on song). To be fair the defence didn't play bad, Bednarek, Stephens and Bertrand did well, but then they were only up against Aston Villa. We couldn't handle the little shit Grealish though, but that was largely inevitable given that we didn't have anyone available who could do a job on him (playing JWP at RB was a double whammy, firstly he is not a RB, we have seen before, too slow, but also it took him out of the position where he has been superb this season. Sure, this is a criticism based on our injury crisis, but unfortunately it is something we have to live with, we can't just say we played well given what we had, we didn't. Ralph does have to address the issues highlighted in this game and a few others recently, we have lost the energy and the pressing game is not functioning. we are not getting in and around the box and creating good chances like we were. Having a good go in the last 10 minutes isn't what its all about, we need to be doing that in the first 80 minutes, and scoring goals. One clear issue we have at the moment is that Ingsy is clearly not fit (not to his high standards). He has not really been right since his injury before Christmas, and I suspect the Covid infection has made matters somewhat worse. His game is not just about scoring goals, its much more than that, its about his energy, his making space, its about his tracking back, helping out in defence, there was little sign of any of that last night. That's not his fault, but it explains why we played badly (please don't mention his contract situation, clearly this is nothing to do with that).

In the end, we were as i said very poor, abysmal last night. There are extenuating circumstances, of course there are, but papering over the cracks and pretending we played well and it was only those horrible nasty referees were the problem is to completely miss the point. There were some terrible refereeing decisions last night, but in the end we scored nil goals and nil points because we weren't good enough against a very average Villa.

Lol we weren't abysmal you fanny. Are you sure you've supported Saints as long as you say. I've seen us put in many abysmal performances over the years and that wasn't one of them.

You're also doing a disservice to Villa who are a decent outfit this season, many teams struggle to deal with Grealish as he is in the form of his life.

[Hawkswood]

11 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

Nothing will top that Chelsea vs. Barcelona game from the CL. At least, I hope it wont.

Christ, well remembered. that was insane, however I have one that might beat it but its a close run thing. South Korea v Italy, world cup quarter final 2002. Now THAT was bent.

[Shroppie]

9 minutes ago, maysie said:

Lol we weren't abysmal you fanny. Are you sure you've supported Saints as long as you say. I've seen us put in many abysmal performances over the years and that wasn't one of them.

You're also doing a disservice to Villa who are a decent outfit this season, many teams struggle to deal with Grealish as he is in the form of his life.

This. We were not poor, apart from weak defending for the goal, but even that was well crafted and difficult to stop when the goal scorer arrives late and the CBs are retreating. JWP was out of position, but he's not really a RB.

Otherwise we made chances, looked good going forward but lacked the final cutting edge/ luck to score. The officials made all the difference.

[Turkish]

17 minutes ago, Shroppie said:

This. We were not poor, apart from weak defending for the goal, but even that was well crafted and difficult to stop when the goal scorer arrives late and the CBs are retreating. JWP was out of position, but he's not really a RB.

Otherwise we made chances, looked good going forward but lacked the final cutting edge/ luck to score. The officials made all the difference.

Agreed. We’ve played better but we were by no means poor. We were the better side once again with key players missing against a good side, villa were happy to sit back and catch us on the break. Which they did, but ref gives the pen like he should have and it’s a totally different game. It wasn’t our night, everything went against us. We will play worse and win.

[Turkish]

4 hours ago, trousers said:

We can get quite nasty when we're *really* angry...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/saints-fans-protest-white-hankies-greet-mauricio-pochettino-8458816.html

 

I’ve seen many strongly worded open letters to the club when we’ve been in challenging times before.

[Maya's Dad]

On 31/01/2021 at 10:01, badgerx16 said:

How poorly is Valery rated that he is effectively 3rd choice RB behind Prowsey and Djenepo ?

i think what most people are missing about ralphs decision to play jwp over valery is rather simple:

start the game with valery against arguably the leagues best winger with ball at feet or go with jwp who has played there before and done very well. the palace game 1v1 against zaha comes to mind. i think ralphs decision here is justified and it is the safe option, especially with romeu coming back and diallo playing so well up till then

then another decision with jwp on a yellow and with the game at 1-0 down, he either brings on valery or make the more 'attacking' move and bring on djenepo. he goes with the later which is slightly harder to justify but i think it still isnt a bad decision. in the end ralph clearly has doubts on valery defensively and i feel the choices he made werent unwarranted

[Toussaint]

56 minutes ago, Maya's Dad said:

i think what most people are missing about ralphs decision to play jwp over valery is rather simple:

start the game with valery against arguably the leagues best winger with ball at feet or go with jwp who has played there before and done very well. the palace game 1v1 against zaha comes to mind. i think ralphs decision here is justified and it is the safe option, especially with romeu coming back and diallo playing so well up till then

then another decision with jwp on a yellow and with the game at 1-0 down, he either brings on valery or make the more 'attacking' move and bring on djenepo. he goes with the later which is slightly harder to justify but i think it still isnt a bad decision. in the end ralph clearly has doubts on valery defensively and i feel the choices he made werent unwarranted

JWP has had mixed fortunes at right back, yes he did well against Zaha but that’s as much because he gets inside his head. JWP has no pace, and definitely no change of pace. He makes a mediocre full back, but combined this  with his absence and influence  from midfield I felt it significantly weakened the team. I’d have felt more comfortable if Valery had played, JWP in the middle and played Diallo in front of Valery instead of Redmond or Walcott. Thought it was a strange set up, despite the controversy I thought we looked all over the place and yet again very blunt in attack. Just an opinion...

Edited 1 February, 2021 by Toussaint

[Billy the Kidd]

11 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Firstly, a word of advice, don't judge other people by your own standards of behaviour, just because you are a fanboy and think supporting other clubs is something that you would do, other people have a higher regard for the team they have supported for over 50 years. If I had wanted to support some other team than the one I first went to see when I was 11 and have followed all over the country ever since I would have done so many years ago when other bad performances may have tipped me over the edge. I certainly wouldn't have supported Liverpool at any stage, who would want to?

Its a great shame that last night's refereeing issues overshadowed the rest of the game, because it detracts from the fact that we were very poor. Having one great play near the end of a game that we are chasing because of how poor we have played doesn't mean we played well, and whether you agree with the offside decision or not (and I don't) in the end it didn't count, so can't be classed as a great move. Its not unusual to have great chances in the last few minutes when chasing a gam, but you have to consider why we were in the position we were, for 80+ minutes we were toothless, wasteful, error prone, lacking in energy, suffering from players playing in unfamiliar/wrong positions, not pressing, giving far too much room to Grealish (due to players playing out of position). we were dreadful. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, our dreadful injury crisis for a start (as I mentioned we missed KWP more than anyone). But having an injury crisis doesn't mean we can't criticise the team that was out there and call out that they were mostly dreadful (actually I have to say that I was perhaps unfair on Romeu, because last night he was superb, until he went off injured at the end, and showed starkly what we had missed in his absence, sorry but Diallo my be good but he is not in the same class as Romeu when he is on song). To be fair the defence didn't play bad, Bednarek, Stephens and Bertrand did well, but then they were only up against Aston Villa. We couldn't handle the little shit Grealish though, but that was largely inevitable given that we didn't have anyone available who could do a job on him (playing JWP at RB was a double whammy, firstly he is not a RB, we have seen before, too slow, but also it took him out of the position where he has been superb this season. Sure, this is a criticism based on our injury crisis, but unfortunately it is something we have to live with, we can't just say we played well given what we had, we didn't. Ralph does have to address the issues highlighted in this game and a few others recently, we have lost the energy and the pressing game is not functioning. we are not getting in and around the box and creating good chances like we were. Having a good go in the last 10 minutes isn't what its all about, we need to be doing that in the first 80 minutes, and scoring goals. One clear issue we have at the moment is that Ingsy is clearly not fit (not to his high standards). He has not really been right since his injury before Christmas, and I suspect the Covid infection has made matters somewhat worse. His game is not just about scoring goals, its much more than that, its about his energy, his making space, its about his tracking back, helping out in defence, there was little sign of any of that last night. That's not his fault, but it explains why we played badly (please don't mention his contract situation, clearly this is nothing to do with that).

In the end, we were as i said very poor, abysmal last night. There are extenuating circumstances, of course there are, but papering over the cracks and pretending we played well and it was only those horrible nasty referees were the problem is to completely miss the point. There were some terrible refereeing decisions last night, but in the end we scored nil goals and nil points because we weren't good enough against a very average Villa.

Nice to meet you Vectis 😄  

Your advice is an oxymoron - you say don’t judge other people by my own behaviours (my comment was pretty tongue in cheek), then judge me without knowing anything about me, by saying I am a fanboy and supporting other clubs is something I would do.

Anyhow - let’s get past that.  I have been supporting Saints for almost as long as you, so far from a fan boy, but let’s not do that thing by writing a ridiculously long reply, and then end with with an’ all almighty “we were, as I said, very poor” like you are the de facto authority on opinions 🤨

Some parts of your really long post I agree with - like Ings isn’t fully fit yesterday, although his move to get the pen that wasnt given, his ball to Adams where he should have scored, and the goal he scored that was taken away, would still get him in the majority of sides in the league.

I’m not papering over the cracks btw - we have an issue scoring goals, which we didnt have an issue with prior to getting all the injuries.  I’d rather imagine once they are all back, fit and in the grove, we wont have an issue scoring goals.

I respect your opinion is different to mine on this matter, but if you really cant see we weren’t very poor, or abysmal - I’m not sure we have that much left to say to one another on this particular subject, which is mind blowing i know 🤯 I’m not trying to get you to alter your view, i just dont believe we are anything near poor, or abysmal.  The bottom 3 clubs right now - I think I’d be with you if you were calling them poor and abysmal, but no, not us.

Anyhow - let’s not fall out over it 🤗

[Noodles34]

13 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Firstly, a word of advice, don't judge other people by your own standards of behaviour, just because you are a fanboy and think supporting other clubs is something that you would do, other people have a higher regard for the team they have supported for over 50 years. If I had wanted to support some other team than the one I first went to see when I was 11 and have followed all over the country ever since I would have done so many years ago when other bad performances may have tipped me over the edge. I certainly wouldn't have supported Liverpool at any stage, who would want to?

Its a great shame that last night's refereeing issues overshadowed the rest of the game, because it detracts from the fact that we were very poor. Having one great play near the end of a game that we are chasing because of how poor we have played doesn't mean we played well, and whether you agree with the offside decision or not (and I don't) in the end it didn't count, so can't be classed as a great move. Its not unusual to have great chances in the last few minutes when chasing a gam, but you have to consider why we were in the position we were, for 80+ minutes we were toothless, wasteful, error prone, lacking in energy, suffering from players playing in unfamiliar/wrong positions, not pressing, giving far too much room to Grealish (due to players playing out of position). we were dreadful. Of course there are mitigating circumstances, our dreadful injury crisis for a start (as I mentioned we missed KWP more than anyone). But having an injury crisis doesn't mean we can't criticise the team that was out there and call out that they were mostly dreadful (actually I have to say that I was perhaps unfair on Romeu, because last night he was superb, until he went off injured at the end, and showed starkly what we had missed in his absence, sorry but Diallo my be good but he is not in the same class as Romeu when he is on song). To be fair the defence didn't play bad, Bednarek, Stephens and Bertrand did well, but then they were only up against Aston Villa. We couldn't handle the little shit Grealish though, but that was largely inevitable given that we didn't have anyone available who could do a job on him (playing JWP at RB was a double whammy, firstly he is not a RB, we have seen before, too slow, but also it took him out of the position where he has been superb this season. Sure, this is a criticism based on our injury crisis, but unfortunately it is something we have to live with, we can't just say we played well given what we had, we didn't. Ralph does have to address the issues highlighted in this game and a few others recently, we have lost the energy and the pressing game is not functioning. we are not getting in and around the box and creating good chances like we were. Having a good go in the last 10 minutes isn't what its all about, we need to be doing that in the first 80 minutes, and scoring goals. One clear issue we have at the moment is that Ingsy is clearly not fit (not to his high standards). He has not really been right since his injury before Christmas, and I suspect the Covid infection has made matters somewhat worse. His game is not just about scoring goals, its much more than that, its about his energy, his making space, its about his tracking back, helping out in defence, there was little sign of any of that last night. That's not his fault, but it explains why we played badly (please don't mention his contract situation, clearly this is nothing to do with that).

In the end, we were as i said very poor, abysmal last night. There are extenuating circumstances, of course there are, but papering over the cracks and pretending we played well and it was only those horrible nasty referees were the problem is to completely miss the point. There were some terrible refereeing decisions last night, but in the end we scored nil goals and nil points because we weren't good enough against a very average Villa.

I do not know what game you were watching? To call our performance abysmal is beyond me. The truth is, like many of our recent performances, we have suffered a lack of creativity in the final ball, Wallcott has been off form and if Danny Ings is not scoring, no one else is either. I think Leicester, Arsenal and Villa are games that could have gone either way, but each of those teams had just a little bit more and we did not offer enough. We are going through a poor run of results, sure, but we are still playing reasonably well and it will turn round at some point, and we'll win 3 or 4 from 7 or 8 and we'll be talking about Europe again and then we'll lose a couple on the spin and finish mid table, maybe 4 points off 7th. Welcome to the world of mid table Premier League football.

[jabei]

Calling that performance abysmal is very strange. Villa are a good side and we managed to keep them to essentially one attempt on goal and it was actually a very good goal. How many times this season has McCarthy been totally wrong footed?

It seems to me that the problem is we only have one player who has the guile to create chances with clever defence splitting passes - Ings

We only have one player confident enough to convert those chances - Ings

Che seems to have lost that little burst of confidence he had....a couple of months ago, he would have buried his chance.

 

[Maya's Dad]

1 hour ago, Toussaint said:

JWP has had mixed fortunes at right back, yes he did well against Zaha but that’s as much because he gets inside his head. JWP has no pace, and definitely no change of pace. He makes a mediocre full back, but combined this  with his absence and influence  from midfield I felt it significantly weakened the team. I’d have felt more comfortable if Valery had played, JWP in the middle and played Diallo in front of Valery instead of Redmond or Walcott. Thought it was a strange set up, despite the controversy I thought we looked all over the place and yet again very blunt in attack. Just an opinion...

yes that is fair enough and jwp certainly would have improved our midfield. but if before the game you were going to say to me valery would play 90 mins against grealish i would not be confident. 

 

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Nice to meet you Vectis 😄  

Your advice is an oxymoron - you say don’t judge other people by my own behaviours (my comment was pretty tongue in cheek), then judge me without knowing anything about me, by saying I am a fanboy and supporting other clubs is something I would do.

Anyhow - let’s get past that.  I have been supporting Saints for almost as long as you, so far from a fan boy, but let’s not do that thing by writing a ridiculously long reply, and then end with with an’ all almighty “we were, as I said, very poor” like you are the de facto authority on opinions 🤨

Some parts of your really long post I agree with - like Ings isn’t fully fit yesterday, although his move to get the pen that wasnt given, his ball to Adams where he should have scored, and the goal he scored that was taken away, would still get him in the majority of sides in the league.

I’m not papering over the cracks btw - we have an issue scoring goals, which we didnt have an issue with prior to getting all the injuries.  I’d rather imagine once they are all back, fit and in the grove, we wont have an issue scoring goals.

I respect your opinion is different to mine on this matter, but if you really cant see we weren’t very poor, or abysmal - I’m not sure we have that much left to say to one another on this particular subject, which is mind blowing i know 🤯 I’m not trying to get you to alter your view, i just dont believe we are anything near poor, or abysmal.  The bottom 3 clubs right now - I think I’d be with you if you were calling them poor and abysmal, but no, not us.

Anyhow - let’s not fall out over it 🤗

For you post to have any credibility you need to get your dick out and boast about how many years you've been supporting saints in the first paragraph.

[Toussaint]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

For you post to have any credibility you need to get your dick out and boast about how many years you've been supporting saints in the first paragraph.

Does your dick grow with every years support? Something has gone drastically wrong in my case.

[Turkish]

5 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

Does your dick grow with every years support? Something has gone drastically wrong in my case.

You should get tattoo on it which gets updated every year, Vectis would say "saints supporter and season ticket holder man and boy for 50 years" next to the club crest. I guess yours would just about fit "SFC 30"

Edited 1 February, 2021 by Turkish

[OldNick]

Ralph took the decisions with dignity, sadly that means it wasnt all over the media this weekend and brushed under the carpet, wheras Dean Smiths out burst caused a rumpus and hence sympathy came from many directions including it seems VAR! Much like a player standing on his feet when fouled and not going over, he doesnt get the advantage of a penalty. Should Ralph have really shouted about it all?

[cloggy saint]

To all the 'fans' who are constantly gnashing their teeth, pulling their hair out and wetting the bed because they see Saints as 'poor' (I'm so sick of seeing that word) and even 'abysmal', what is it you expect exactly?  In my time as a Saints supporter I'd guess (can't be bothered to work it out accurately) that our average top flight finishing position is somewhere around 15th ish. With a few notable exceptions over the last 45 years we've either been involved in a relegation scrap or are hovering around mid-table, yet it seems some expect us to win every game with a flawless performance. This is SFC, a relatively small club with limited resources and pulling power for 'top' players. Now and again we get an ageing star and more frequently discover or nurture a youthful talent but the majority of our players are, and have been decent players, no more, no less. Personally I think just being in and staying in the top flight is a huge achievement when you consider the 'bigger' clubs languishing in the Championship with no real hope of promotion.

Anyway, not really sure where this is going but it would be nice if the usual suspects lowered their expectations to a realistic level and try and get through 90 minutes of football without resorting to calling any of our players a cnut, I guarantee you will enjoy life more.